The Saga of the stylist, con't.

Myrna · 04-12-2012, 11:13 PM

As many of you know, I hav been struggling with whether or not to change salons and stylist. Moreover, when I look at my pics of even a year ago, I see a much better "look" than I have been experiencing recently. Maybe it is ageing. Comments appreciated. But here is my question: My consult is next week with the new stylist; how will I know from talking to her if she can really do better for me, or if it will just be "hype" to get a new customer? I feel foolish asking this, but I am not sure I know what to look for in someone I will be speaking with for 15 minutes, and then I have to make a decision.

bigredapmi · 04-13-2012, 03:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myrna

As many of you know, I hav been struggling with whether or not to change salons and stylist. Moreover, when I look at my pics of even a year ago, I see a much better "look" than I have been experiencing recently. Maybe it is ageing. Comments appreciated. But here is my question: My consult is next week with the new stylist; how will I know from talking to her if she can really do better for me, or if it will just be "hype" to get a new customer? I feel foolish asking this, but I am not sure I know what to look for in someone I will be speaking with for 15 minutes, and then I have to make a decision.

May I say first, it's Not Aging, and no question is foolish!!!!
I've been following your story with much intrest, and I think you are asking an excellent Question. How can I choose a stylist with a 15 min. consultation?
There are 3 things you need to look for and talk about.
First your story, your past experiences, how you felt like you have not been heard or cared for at your last salon. You did not feel serviced because they didn't even have a diffuser. Her response should be intrest and empathy, she should assure you that she cares and wants to do better. 5 min.
Next, the cut. You need to discuss length first, back sides, front. Haircuts start at the length and your shape or layers depend on the length.
Then, shape. This is what I think you are wanting most. Bring your pictures, show what you like and do not like. She should ask Q's to confirm what your seeing. I am very Italian and understand and use hand speak alot. I am using my hands now,lol, showing roundness, up n down, angles....do you know what I mean?? hopin' so. 10 min.
Then style. This is where I ask if you want hydration or definition. Hydration means fluffy curls, soft natural clumps, more volume. Definition means more clumpy clumps, more hold, control, less volume. 5 min.

With each step, she should show intrest, and confirm that she understands what you are saying. Asking you Q's. She should be smiling and nodding her head.
Listen to what she has to say, she may be able to do somethings, some not. She should say this is what I can do.....

It sound like alot, but if you stay on topic and break it down, it can easily be done.

I hope this helps you and your stylist. I can't wait to hear how it goes.

Myrna · 04-13-2012, 05:32 AM

Thank you so much! this is so helpful. At first, I thought I was being petty about my concerns. then as others responded with caring, I understood that I was not exactly being cared for as a client. I am a mental health professional, and while it is not the same, I certainly hope each of my clients feels heard and cared for when s/he leaves my office. YOur guidelines are good. I will have to find some pics to take with me as well, and I will be printing your response and taking it with me! like going shopping for cars and taking the ratings on Consumer Reports. : )

Myrna · 04-13-2012, 06:32 AM

Bigred, I know some here think curly hair should be cut dry; what do you think about that, is that a requirement?

diaspora · 04-13-2012, 07:56 AM

Myrna, I'm glad you're arming yourself with good questions that should help you have the most revealing consult you can. I think BigRed's list is great too. I would also want to know what products she uses (maybe you already checked out what's at the salon), do they have hooded dryers/heat lamps/diffusers, and for me, though not a hard requirement, I would much prefer a dry cut because I've gotten the best results that way.

ninja dog · 04-13-2012, 09:13 AM

I think bigredpami's reply is great, too. She also sounds like a really fun person.

I think going with your gut feeling about whether or not you feel heard is the best advice.

Please keep updating; it's really interesting.

raindear · 04-13-2012, 10:31 AM

If when you start talking about "natural curl", "curl definition", etc., if she gives you a blank look like you have suddenly started spouting a foreign language, run don't walk to the door.

angel29ish · 04-13-2012, 10:59 AM

Great advice from bigredapmi and ninja dog - be prepared and go with your gut! I went to a new stylist last summer when I had my curls cut short from below BSL. My longtime stylist is great with coloring, but not so great with cutting curly hair. She is a good friend as well......awkward! I went to the new stylist well prepared with questions and pictures. He was attentive and excited (not silly excited) to work with my curls. I knew with his responses that he heard what my concerns were and what I wanted. He discussed a plan and we came to an agreement before he began the cut. It was a great experience. I hope my story helps.

bigredapmi · 04-14-2012, 04:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myrna

Bigred, I know some here think curly hair should be cut dry; what do you think about that, is that a requirement?

I LOVE dry cutting on curly hair. It has opened up so many options for my curly clients and myself. I was restricted in my wet cutting tecniques.
But I trained intensively for 3 days in N.Y. with the founder of the cutting method, and then practiced and practiced on maniquins and very kind and giving family and friends. It's one thing to know about something new and it's another to make your hands do it. It can be hard to change your ways!!

But I understand that, it's just not avalable to most of you.

The best wet cut advice I can give you is to tell your stylist to use NO tension. They need to comb out a section to the guide, but then they need to relax their hands, go loosie gooseie wigglie ( oh man, my Italian hands are getting in my way of words again).
Show them this, then they'll think we're both nuts, but they should understand.
I also feel they should use smaller sections than usual to pick up on all of the different curl patterns. Pay attention to how the hair comes out of the head.

They should then say, omg, this is so cool, I want to know more, go to N.Y. and learn to cut dry.
In my humble opinion...

bigredapmi · 04-14-2012, 04:18 AM

I am a mental health professional, and while it is not the same

Oh, yes it is

I certainly hope each of my clients feels heard and cared for when s/he leaves my office.

Me too

Myrna · 04-14-2012, 07:55 PM

Bigred, I am sending you a PM. Please check.

bigredapmi · 04-17-2012, 03:49 AM

What have you decided to do? Are you comfortable and confident in what you want? What will you tell the stylist and what kind of expectations do you have from her?
What could she do or say or look like that would make you say Thank you very much, but I'm outta here?

Myrna · 04-17-2012, 05:36 AM

HI, Bigred, as you know, I have been getting excellent advise from an expert with red curly here, right here on NC. She has helped me understand that my hair has changed because now it is healthier. I do want a somewhat different shape or style, and I have in the past spoken with current stylist about this. I have a consult with a stylist recommended here, and I will see what she says. I will tell her that my hair has changed, that I am not crazy about the present overally shape of the cut (but perhaps it has to grow more); and that I am no longer sure of what products to use, as it is curlier now than it has been. I will probably go by my gut. I do have appts at my old salon on friday for a cut and color, so I will need to decide fast whether or not I will keep those appts. It may be that I make this decision in another month or so, when I have had more time to evaluate. There is no real hurry, just my own frustration and impatience.

Thank you so much for all you help. It is really something how so few stylists take an interest in their curly clients, and even fewer commit themselves to know about curly products, handling curly hair, this site, and continuing education that includes curly hair.

crazywaves · 04-17-2012, 01:25 PM

I find most salons have no need to cater to a curly person. For most salons there is only a few of us. Its not a loss for them if I dont come back like it would be if 50% of their clients were curly.

I dont expect them to provide anything special as far as styling for me. I am grateful if I just get a good cut and color. For a curly products are very important but not so much for clients with straight hair. Finding the right products is a journey almost for us curlies. I know the salon I go to tells me their products are by far better than any store product or online product I can get. I know after learning about ingredients in products that they are fooling themselves. They dont have an interest or need to learn which shampoos/stylers are better for healthy hair. There products sell thats all that matters.

I think if you go to a curly salon then you should expect they be able to provide anything thats needed for you to leave very happy. That kind of service from a regular salon will be hard to find. My stylist was retired last month so I am now looking myself. Finding someone who can do a good cut has me very worried.

Myrna · 04-17-2012, 04:27 PM

Crazywaves, I think you are unfortunately correct, just as most salons have no "need" to cater to our mixed or African American sisters. Even the beauty schools dont seem to teach techniques for dealing with our hair. It is insulting. That's what I think. I also agree with you about products. I still have not found what works for me.

Fifi.G · 04-18-2012, 02:47 AM

Good luck finding a salon/stylist, and I mean that with sincerity. It is very hard. I recently broke from a stylist of 8 years. He had been exhausting me for 6. I reached enough when he purposely dyed my hair a different color than what I asked for, left it on too long, and did major damage. He honestly believed he knew what was best for my hair/appearance and was shocked when I didn't like it. I found out later that he lost his license several months before. I had no idea because he has an old copy hanging on the wall. I took a chance on a new stylist and I am enjoying it, so far. Is she perfect? No. She does not know how to do a dry cut, but no one in my area does. She's not fully learned my hair yet, but she is working very hard toward it. She let's me bring in my own products, and deducts this from my bill. Most of all she has been very patient with my non stop questions & concerns, researched answers, and has taken great care with my hair. If you can't find the perfect one, I hope you can find one like this, who works toward it.

Myrna · 04-18-2012, 05:41 AM

I hear you, Fifi. And I am very nervous about the possibility of switching to another stylist and salon. But, I dont necessarily feel it is in my best interest to remain there out of fear. I have learned there is risk in life whatever decisions we make, including there is risk in staying with doing what we were doing, or doing nothing. My stylist also lets me bring in my products; and when I just get my roots done, I also style it and dry it there as well. At first, this was OK. Now it is not. I think these people are professionals, and they should be asking me about products, and they should learn to style my hair properly. I dont necessarily expect them to have what I use - but come on, shouldnt they know about the controversy with sulfates? shouldnt my stylist use conditioner on my hair? shouldnt they have a diffuser that fits the dryer? I dont know - I have a consult today elsewhere. I will let you all know how it goes. Next week I may get "Deva styled" - styled with Deva products, and see how that goes.

Fifi.G · 04-18-2012, 10:46 AM

Yes, you should. I am with you 150% on that. We all should be able to find someone who has knowledge & know how of curly needs. CG is a new process to me, but it is not a new process... period. A plethora of different curly hair care needs and methods should be standardized in cosmetology schools. It should be a given that diffusers be on hand for every hair dryer. I've never understood that. I just found out about co washing 4 months ago, but I've known that my hair needed to be diffused for many years. Why don't they? And even though both my last stylist and the new are aware that I shouldn't be using sulfates, there was/is not one single bottle of sulfate free shampoo in either salon. That truly boggles the mind because sulfates fade color as well. This is a problem with every salon in my town. The Aveda salon is catering to people with gluten allergies, which is fantastic given that it's a growing issue, but that's as far as it goes. I was just saying, I'm happy with the stylist I have now because she really is trying. She's hit the books and done a ton of research on line. She seems very excited about learning. I doubt I could have found someone else willing to try harder.

Best of luck on your consult. I do honestly hope you find a salon that is capable of meeting your/curly needs. One should never stay with a stylist out of fear, comfort or loyalty. I know that all too well

Please keep us updated on your consult today. I am interested, and pulling for you.

raindear · 04-18-2012, 10:52 AM

I have my fingers crossed for you, and will be watching for your post.

Myrna · 04-18-2012, 05:34 PM

Thank you all so much! what a great bunch of gals!

I went today for not one but 2 consults. The first was in a salon recommended highly here and by a stylist highly recommended here. I did not really feel she connected well with my issues; I was telling her I did not like the shape (and brought her a pic, thanks to Bigred) of what I was more interested in . She started asking me about product - important, I get it, but...great hair starts with a good cut. I told her my concerns also about the coloring process - not much response there. Then we started talking price, and she said that since I didnt know what I have been using ( I had not been using anything consistantly), that she would want to do some whoop di do special conditioning. And I remembered one reviewer of this salon saying she had felt talked into and pressured into services she did not necessarily want or need. A red light went off.

The first decision I made following that consult was to cancel my Friday appointment(s) at my old salon. I decided I was done there; that my needs were not being met and that was that. Sad, but true.

Later today, I went to a salon that does Deva cuts and methods. TOTALLY different experience. The stylist said that I have 2 different kind of hair, and she showed me; top layer is fine, (and frizzess); underneath is not. She talked with me about the cut, and what she would do, asked me what about the current cut I disliked, and said what she would do; she asked about how I apply products and said the upper layer of my hair is overprocessed. That made sense too, because since last summer, in the warm weather, I have had FRIZZ, and nothing worked on it. She explained that a Deva cut is more expensive but lasts longer, and also commented that my color looked flat to her. So, she diagnosed the problem and talked about what would remedy it, and it was not all about the flippin' products. I have an appointment at 9AM on Friday. I am very excited and will let you wonderful women know how it goes.