Need help for a potential client....

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  • 1 Post By IAgirl
  • 2 Post By kathymack
  • 1 Post By subbrock
  • 1 Post By kathymack

I may be doing a 13 yr old girl with nut allergies, excema, acne, and curly hair. Her dermo told her to cut out sulfates, which we know, and behentrimonum chloride. I did a quick search on the web, but was wondering if anyone has any person experience with this paticular ingredient?
3a/3b coarse and thick.....big and red

Advanced Deva inspired Stylist
Behentrimonium chloride is similar to Behentrimonium methosulfate (BTMS). I think I've seen it in Yes To Carrots Conditioner as one example. It's a quaternary cationic conditioning agent for detangling and slip.
I've read that the "methosulfate" form is less irritating to skin than the "chloride" (from the manufacturer data on BTMS - so take it with a grain of salt, but having formulated conditioners with both for my and my husband's super-sensitive skin, I'm inclined to agree). It's usually made from canola oil (in the mustard family), not coconut - but I think it's the compound itself - not the oil from which it is made - that is the irritant. I can't find my source for that at the moment.

DH's dermatologist is woefully ignorant about all chemicals going into scalp/skin treatments other than the "active" ones. DH won't use conditioner at all any more - if it gets on his scalp, it gets itchy unless it's a "cream rinse" with absolutely no cationics (nothing that will bond to the skin). I put coconut oil on his hair before it's completely dry and that works just as well (he has wavy/curly hair which is a little kinky in places and needs something to soften and define). FSG with protein and oils does the rest of the "conditioning."

Might be worth having them ask the dermatologist if she should avoid just that one ingredient and why (did they do a skin test?). If it's just the possible irritation for that one ingredient only, then something with Behentrimonium methosulfate or Cetrimonium bromide could work. If it's all cationic conditioners, then that's going to require some creativity. Preservatives and fragrances are usually the bigger problems... Bummer being an allergic 13 year old. I had a lot more acne before I discovered I was allergic to formaldehyde-y preservatives. HTH!
http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/
Behentrimonium chloride is similar to Behentrimonium methosulfate (BTMS). I think I've seen it in Yes To Carrots Conditioner as one example. It's a quaternary cationic conditioning agent for detangling and slip.
I've read that the "methosulfate" form is less irritating to skin than the "chloride" (from the manufacturer data on BTMS - so take it with a grain of salt, but having formulated conditioners with both for my and my husband's super-sensitive skin, I'm inclined to agree). It's usually made from canola oil (in the mustard family), not coconut - but I think it's the compound itself - not the oil from which it is made - that is the irritant. I can't find my source for that at the moment.

DH's dermatologist is woefully ignorant about all chemicals going into scalp/skin treatments other than the "active" ones. DH won't use conditioner at all any more - if it gets on his scalp, it gets itchy unless it's a "cream rinse" with absolutely no cationics (nothing that will bond to the skin). I put coconut oil on his hair before it's completely dry and that works just as well (he has wavy/curly hair which is a little kinky in places and needs something to soften and define). FSG with protein and oils does the rest of the "conditioning."

Might be worth having them ask the dermatologist if she should avoid just that one ingredient and why (did they do a skin test?). If it's just the possible irritation for that one ingredient only, then something with Behentrimonium methosulfate or Cetrimonium bromide could work. If it's all cationic conditioners, then that's going to require some creativity. Preservatives and fragrances are usually the bigger problems... Bummer being an allergic 13 year old. I had a lot more acne before I discovered I was allergic to formaldehyde-y preservatives. HTH!
Originally Posted by IAgirl

"methosulfate" is from canola oil ?
chloride" is from coconut?

Did I understand that right? I bet that's why, she's allergic to nuts.

Do you have a cleanser or condish you would recommend?

The nut allergy cuts out alot of oils. Her hair is very dry and curly. Thinking simple simple simple til her skin calms down. Baking soda scrub to cleanse, flax seed gel, evoo , acv, condition. Hydrocortizone on scalp at night to calm down inflamation. ????

Poor thing, I must find away to make her feel beautiful!
3a/3b coarse and thick.....big and red

Advanced Deva inspired Stylist
Juice organics makes a good one if she can do shea butter... here are the ingredients
Juice Organic Pomsmooth Conditioner

Juice of vitis vinifera (grape)*, punica granatum (pomegranate)*, & aloe barbadensis leaf*, plant oils of simmindsia chinensis (jojoba) seed*, olea europaea (olive) fruit*, limnanthes alba (meadowfoam) seed*, butyrospermum parkii (shea butter)*, vitis vinifera (grape) leaf*, & punica granatum (pomegranate)*, essential fatty acids of oenothera biennis (evening primrose)*, linum usitatissimum (linseed) seed* & borago officinali (borage) seed*, oryza sativa (rice) syrup*, glycerin, cetearyl alcohol, cetyl alcohol, stearyl alcohol, sodium levulinate, sodium anisate, phytic acid, hydroxyethylcellulose, panthenol (vitamin B5), sodium dehydroacetate, sodium benzoate, sorbic acid, extracts of fragaria vesca (strawberry), vaccinium myrtillus (blueberry).
Behentrimonium chloride is canola (colza) oil but Behentrimonium methosulfate is usually combination product with cetyl alcohol or (more likely) cetearyl alcohol and those may be made from coconut or palm kernel oil.
There is Free & Clear brand - but the shampoo is too harsh to use undiluted and the conditioner is so-so, I'd add a bit of oil upon use, I think. Magick Botanicals is kind of the same way. California Baby shampoo is concentrated, and doesn't dilute well. I make my own shampoo and I use an extremely low concentration of detergent. Rainbow research unscented detangling conditioner is good (but actually not much slip). Their shampoo is the worst I've ever used aside from Ultra Swim. KCKT might work? I don't know how that goes with allergy girls. One can look for "unscented shampoo and conditioner bases" online to get as few ingredients as possible and no fragrance and try to avoid formaldehyde-releasing preservatives.

Olive oil, jojoba oil, hempseed oil or grapeseed should be okay. Shea butter too, unless there's a latex allergy. Used to seal, it's almost like conditioner. Not quite... Not as good for tangles.

Aloe vera juice or gel (the edible kind) is a really great cleanser that moisturizes if it doesn't bother her scalp. I love to wash my hair with it, it does cleanse mildly, but usually needs to be diluted with a little water so it's not too acidic (stings). Clay hair washes (rinse really well) also get the job done - either mixed with water or oil for the scalp.

Scalipcin Max. Strength or cortisone creams are wonderful for inflammation. Vinegar is iffy for allergies because it can cause itch - but citric acid rinses are good (1/4 tsp per cup water). BS washes can really irritate sensitive scalps.

A oil "pre-shampoo" can do wonders to prevent dryness.
As you know, the 2's board is very active, and there are several itchy wavies with a warehouse of ideas
California Baby Natural & Organic Products Ingredients FAQ
Magick Botanicals - Ingredients (Powered by CubeCart)
Rainbow Research Inc.
Free & Clear Shampoo | Fragrance Free Shampoo |Hypoallergenic Shampoo
Free & Clear Hair Conditioner | Hypoallergenic, Fragrance Free Hair Care
HTH - PM me if any of this didn't make sense.
bigredapmi likes this.
http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/

Last edited by IAgirl; 04-14-2012 at 04:28 PM.
Are there any products by Almay or Aveeno that she could tolerate? Poor baby, so sad.


"methosulfate" is from canola oil ?
chloride" is from coconut?

Did I understand that right? I bet that's why, she's allergic to nuts.
Originally Posted by bigredapmi
Coconuts are not nuts. It could still be the problem but unrelated to the nut allergy.

As an aside, people with nut allergies are allergic to the proteins which should not be present in the oils. (That said I'm SUPER allergic to peanuts and would not knowingly use it on myself so I wouldn't recommend it!)

This thread is so nice. It is so nice that you care about your client.
A Tree nut allergy might include coconuts - here's a link: Tree Nut Allergy Facts, Symptoms - FAAN
A person allergic to coconuts as well as tree nuts would practically have to use castile liquid soap or bar soap made from oils they can tolerate or no shampoo at all. Paired with an acidic rinse for the soap scum, they can work in hard water - some people like them, some don't.

Most conditioners are made from coconut oils or palm kernel oils, so those would be out too. So it's good to know exactly what those allergies are.

I have some ideas on this webpage: science-y hair blog: Allergen-free Recipes

Allergy is a situation in which silicones are nice. They're not very skin-sensitizing and they detangle. If all conditioners are irritating - a silicone-containing spray along with oils and things like aloe or honey might get the job done.
http://science-yhairblog.blogspot.com/
Of course, I was going to recommend the natural soap bars--being careful of the ingredient oils. Do you know hair properties?? If she's low porosity, she may tolerate that better.

I'd be careful with the baking soda. My hair just HATES it.
bigredapmi and IAgirl like this.
3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
modified CG, since April '07
CG since 3/11/08

SE PA

HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic; Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me, Marie Dean Leave Ins and Curl Creams
Behentrimonium chloride is canola (colza) oil but Behentrimonium methosulfate is usually combination product with cetyl alcohol or (more likely) cetearyl alcohol and those may be made from coconut or palm kernel oil.
There is Free & Clear brand - but the shampoo is too harsh to use undiluted and the conditioner is so-so, I'd add a bit of oil upon use, I think. Magick Botanicals is kind of the same way. California Baby shampoo is concentrated, and doesn't dilute well. I make my own shampoo and I use an extremely low concentration of detergent. Rainbow research unscented detangling conditioner is good (but actually not much slip). Their shampoo is the worst I've ever used aside from Ultra Swim. KCKT might work? I don't know how that goes with allergy girls. One can look for "unscented shampoo and conditioner bases" online to get as few ingredients as possible and no fragrance and try to avoid formaldehyde-releasing preservatives.

Olive oil, jojoba oil, hempseed oil or grapeseed should be okay. Shea butter too, unless there's a latex allergy. Used to seal, it's almost like conditioner. Not quite... Not as good for tangles.

Aloe vera juice or gel (the edible kind) is a really great cleanser that moisturizes if it doesn't bother her scalp. I love to wash my hair with it, it does cleanse mildly, but usually needs to be diluted with a little water so it's not too acidic (stings). Clay hair washes (rinse really well) also get the job done - either mixed with water or oil for the scalp.

Scalipcin Max. Strength or cortisone creams are wonderful for inflammation. Vinegar is iffy for allergies because it can cause itch - but citric acid rinses are good (1/4 tsp per cup water). BS washes can really irritate sensitive scalps.

A oil "pre-shampoo" can do wonders to prevent dryness.
As you know, the 2's board is very active, and there are several itchy wavies with a warehouse of ideas
California Baby Natural & Organic Products Ingredients FAQ
Magick Botanicals - Ingredients (Powered by CubeCart)
Rainbow Research Inc.
Free & Clear Shampoo | Fragrance Free Shampoo |Hypoallergenic Shampoo
Free & Clear Hair Conditioner | Hypoallergenic, Fragrance Free Hair Care
HTH - PM me if any of this didn't make sense.
Originally Posted by IAgirl
Both of my kids have tree nut and peanut allergies along with severe eczema and KCKT, KCCC, and California Baby products have worked well for them. No problems with any oils. And as was already mentioned most people who have a nut allergy don't typically have an issue with coconut.

Blame it on the cell phone...
bigredapmi likes this.
You guy's are wonderful, Thank You. I am printing this off to go over with it with the mom.

Mom is very skeptical, as you would imagine.
I hope she gives me a chance to make her look and feel beautiful.

I'll let you know how it goes
3a/3b coarse and thick.....big and red

Advanced Deva inspired Stylist
My skin is really sensitive (3 for 3 in the Health Magizine qualifications--allergic to chemical sunscreen, roseaca and reactive to weather. I just checked the Curly Kinks products, my new fav, and they might fit the bill. The leave in and DT have Behentrimonium Methosulfate (BTMS), but if that's okay--they all should be fine.

Curly Kinks - Natural curling gelly & products for kinky curly coily hair types.
bigredapmi likes this.
3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
modified CG, since April '07
CG since 3/11/08

SE PA

HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic; Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me, Marie Dean Leave Ins and Curl Creams
What about the Jessicurl GLS? Would that be ok?
Coarse texture, normal-high porosity, normal elasticity (Komaza Care), very weak waves
cleanser: Redken Fresh Curls Shampoo, CJ Daily Fix

rinse out: CJ Beauticurls, CJ A&OO, CJ Smoothing

jellies/creams: Mop C, KCCC, SCE FSG
gels: CJ CQ, BRHG

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