Help! So Confused! My hair's a nightmare!

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  • 1 Post By butterfly57

I have been lurking on this site for quite awhile, gathering info. here and there, learning many new things but there's an overwhelming amount of information on here and I'm confused.

I was introduced to the CG method by a Deva stylist in 2010 after using Ouidad products and getting the occasional Ouidad cut (too expensive for me on a regular basis). I wasn't thrilled with the Deva product line, it made my hair "sticky" or "tacky". So I went back to the Ouidad product line. It seemed to always work well for me.

Suddenly last summer I noticed my hair becoming very dry and strawlike (I home color & have a mix of 3a 3b curls). So somewhere along the line of my research and probably on this website I discovered Jessicurl's products and ordered them. They seemed to give me good curl formation, soft hair, but still frizzy at times. I would occasionally use Ouidad products on and off during this time. I had a Ouidad cut last fall and she said my hair needed a deep conditioning treatment which I went and did at home. It really didn't help much (Jessicurl product).

Then early this spring I went to a Deva stylist for a cut and she told me I still had a tiny bit of the cones left in my hair from using Ouidad products. She said I have very fine hair and I had/have alot of breakage.

I have continued to religiously use Jessicurl products but my hair is becoming almost TOO SOFT and then some spots are dry and knotty at times and I have a huge halo of frizz going on and my curl formation is no longer there. What the heck is going on? If I use too much of her CC (confident coils) I get white flecks in my hair, looks bad. If I use too little there's no hold at all. I can't determine if she has alot of protein in her products and that's my problem or if the Ouidad products had too much protein and that was drying out my hair.

I'm overwhemed by all this. I ran out of Jessicurl's shampoo and conditioner and bought L'Oreal's Eversleek shampoo and conditioner since my budget is extremely tight right now. I do have some free samples of LIVING PROOF on there way to me, although if I like the products I probably can't purchase them right now.

So please any advice, direction, drugstore products that may help (and be affordable).
Curls 3a & 3b
Fine but thick shoulder length hair
Still trying to figure out the porosity and if my hair loves or hates protein
Shampoo and Conditioner: L'Oreal Eversleek
Styling Products: Jessicurl RR & CC
Hair color: Nice 'N Easy semi-permanent (box color)
Last haircut was a Devacut, prior to that a Ouidad cut, prior to that an ordinary layered cut.
Picture in my Avatar is from last summer, a bad layered cut growing out, and I had just started using Jessicurl products.
The best way to choose ingredients/products is by hair properties. You already know your hair is fine and you have breakage, so protein is in order. You should determine your other properties, just so you know them. Here's a link to help Live Curly Live Free - Curly Hair Basics Once you know your properties, you can look for others with similar properties and see what they use (in signatures.) It's really the best place to start.
3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
modified CG, since April '07
CG since 3/11/08

SE PA

HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic; Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me, Marie Dean Leave Ins and Curl Creams
I agree, it sounds like you need a protein to me too.
I just used "Hair rescue keratin reconstructor kit" from sally's and it did a great job of repairing my dry hair.
The sealer does have dimethicone so I pooed a couple days later and its still nice and moisturized.
CG off and on since 2010-Determined to stick with it 2013
3C (I think) - Thick, fine, extremely porous
Cleanse L'Oreal EverCreme
CO-(Daily)YTC, Suave tea therapy, TN
RO- Yes to cucumbers color care, L'Oreal reparative or intense smoothing, Tresseme Naturals
LI- Grapeseed oil
Stylers- SMCES, KCCC
Gel- AIA smoothing...still looking

Hair loves protein

I finally realized, its all about "Clumping!
The best way to choose ingredients/products is by hair properties. You already know your hair is fine and you have breakage, so protein is in order. You should determine your other properties, just so you know them. Here's a link to help Live Curly Live Free - Curly Hair Basics Once you know your properties, you can look for others with similar properties and see what they use (in signatures.) It's really the best place to start.
Originally Posted by kathymack
Thanks for the link! What a huge wealth of information, almost a bit overwhelming to absorb so I had to read through it twice. I've been looking at all my products that I have on hand and their ingredients. Ouidad's stuff has surprised me. While there is quite a bit of protein in most of her products there is the sulfates in her shampoo (Curl Quencher, how does it quench the curl if it has sulfates? Confused at the thought process there). One of her gels has the bad cones in it. Another has the washable cones in it. Jessicurls products look extremely healthy but lacking much protein, which I probably do need at this time. It looked like I may have overdosed on protein awhile back with Ouidad's products then add her sulfates and cones to it...no wonder my hair was a strawlike, dry mess. Gosh so much to learn, wish I had the funds to try lots of different products. But, it's drugstore brands right now for me. I'm not positive on the porosity of my hair, it's either low or normal....maybe some of both? I'd love to have the hair test done and may do it when $$ isn't so tight.
Curls 3a & 3b
Fine but thick shoulder length hair
Still trying to figure out the porosity and if my hair loves or hates protein
Shampoo and Conditioner: L'Oreal Eversleek
Styling Products: Jessicurl RR & CC
Hair color: Nice 'N Easy semi-permanent (box color)
Last haircut was a Devacut, prior to that a Ouidad cut, prior to that an ordinary layered cut.
Picture in my Avatar is from last summer, a bad layered cut growing out, and I had just started using Jessicurl products.
I tried Quidad products once a few years ago, never tried em again. My hair did not like them.

Also, If you've been coloring your hair for awhile you're probably porous to highly porous as coloring damages the hair and makes it porous.
I've been coloring my hair for over 20 years, trust me I know.

There are decent drugstore products you can try. I love the yes to cucumbers color care. A lot of people use Tresseme naturals and Walmart sells the Giovanni which you might like. It's usually a trial and error thing but some people get lucky and find what works for them right away.
Good luck!
CG off and on since 2010-Determined to stick with it 2013
3C (I think) - Thick, fine, extremely porous
Cleanse L'Oreal EverCreme
CO-(Daily)YTC, Suave tea therapy, TN
RO- Yes to cucumbers color care, L'Oreal reparative or intense smoothing, Tresseme Naturals
LI- Grapeseed oil
Stylers- SMCES, KCCC
Gel- AIA smoothing...still looking

Hair loves protein

I finally realized, its all about "Clumping!
You may want to read through this list, as many drugstore products are mentioned here. Pedaheh's Hair Blog: What do I need to start the Curly Girl method? There are many drugstore products that work very well for many people, so don't be discouraged!
Okay so I whipped up the homemade protein treatment, jumped in the shower, washed my hair and slathered the PT all over and put a shower cap on. I got out of the shower and left that on for 30 min. Back in the shower...all excited to rinse it out and feel how wonderful my hair would be and OMG it was strawlike, tangled, knotty....it felt awful. So I washed the PT out and put the only DT on it I have, Jessicurl. It's been on my head now for 45 min in a shower cap and with some heat. I'm kind of afraid to go cold rinse this out.

Everything I've read about fine curly hair says it needs protein every now and then. Well, please someone tell me what the heck my hair did. Is that normal? Am I protein sensitive then? I'll pop back on here after I rinse and add styling products. I'll let it air dry.
Curls 3a & 3b
Fine but thick shoulder length hair
Still trying to figure out the porosity and if my hair loves or hates protein
Shampoo and Conditioner: L'Oreal Eversleek
Styling Products: Jessicurl RR & CC
Hair color: Nice 'N Easy semi-permanent (box color)
Last haircut was a Devacut, prior to that a Ouidad cut, prior to that an ordinary layered cut.
Picture in my Avatar is from last summer, a bad layered cut growing out, and I had just started using Jessicurl products.
I would not yet come to the conclusion that your fine hair dislikes protein.

First, it is normal for your hair to feel more tangly after a PT, especially a strong one like the gelatin PT. Most people follow a PT with a good DT, but some of us don't even need a DT, just a RO conditioner with a lot of slip. I really never follow up with a DT myself, but I make sure to use a conditioner with a lot of slip like TN moisture or Biolage conditioning balm. This allows my hair to get all that protein its craving, yet not end up all tangled. I have tried Jessicurl's DT and it did not do much of anything for me - didn't really seem that moisturizing to be honest, and very little slip.

Also, it may be possible that a gelatin PT is too strong for your hair. There are some fine haired people that say its too strong for them. A good alternative to get some protein along with some moisture is to try the Ion Effective Care available at Sally's - just leave it on your hair for 5 or 10 minutes and see how that works. Additionally, read the ingredients in your products and determine which have protein and how your hair reacts to the different types of protein. Your hair may have a preference for the 'lighter' proteins (i.e. keratin, silk) rather than the 'heavier' ones like collagen, wheat, etc.

Here's more info on this topic: Pedaheh's Hair Blog: I did my first PT and angles didin't sing. OR My hair hated my first PT.
I would not yet come to the conclusion that your fine hair dislikes protein.

First, it is normal for your hair to feel more tangly after a PT, especially a strong one like the gelatin PT. Most people follow a PT with a good DT, but some of us don't even need a DT, just a RO conditioner with a lot of slip. I really never follow up with a DT myself, but I make sure to use a conditioner with a lot of slip like TN moisture or Biolage conditioning balm. This allows my hair to get all that protein its craving, yet not end up all tangled. I have tried Jessicurl's DT and it did not do much of anything for me - didn't really seem that moisturizing to be honest, and very little slip.

Also, it may be possible that a gelatin PT is too strong for your hair. There are some fine haired people that say its too strong for them. A good alternative to get some protein along with some moisture is to try the Ion Effective Care available at Sally's - just leave it on your hair for 5 or 10 minutes and see how that works. Additionally, read the ingredients in your products and determine which have protein and how your hair reacts to the different types of protein. Your hair may have a preference for the 'lighter' proteins (i.e. keratin, silk) rather than the 'heavier' ones like collagen, wheat, etc.

Here's more info on this topic: Pedaheh's Hair Blog: I did my first PT and angles didin't sing. OR My hair hated my first PT.
Originally Posted by wavymom
I did the homemade PT treatment (I forget the link someone provided me with massive information about EVERYTHING you need to know about curly hair, awesome info). But, it was one egg, mayo and olive oil. Not sure how those proteins compare to store bought protein or the gelatin protein combo.? Is this a normal reaction to protein treatments?I have to admit I'm still a bit confused by all the information on here but feel like I'm making some headway out of the fog.

Also, I want to add that I'm not very overly impressed with Jessicurl's deep treatment either. I really, really wanted to love her products and I've given them a try now for almost one year (initially I switched back and forth with Ouidad products but haven't used Ouidad since Dec 2011). So I'm not sure her DT really did much for me but it did remove the tangled, straw like mess I felt on my head. My hair isn't wonderful this morning, I know I can use a trim (I actually started snipping some wild split ends myself last night after I finally 95% dried).
Curls 3a & 3b
Fine but thick shoulder length hair
Still trying to figure out the porosity and if my hair loves or hates protein
Shampoo and Conditioner: L'Oreal Eversleek
Styling Products: Jessicurl RR & CC
Hair color: Nice 'N Easy semi-permanent (box color)
Last haircut was a Devacut, prior to that a Ouidad cut, prior to that an ordinary layered cut.
Picture in my Avatar is from last summer, a bad layered cut growing out, and I had just started using Jessicurl products.

Last edited by butterfly57; 08-05-2012 at 09:49 AM.
I occasionally use the gelatin PT, but mostly use moisturizing PTs like CJ Repair Me and SS Protein Repair. You generally need to DT after a PT if you're using a "regular" PT.

There is a treatment nicknamed the cherryloa PT--Greek yogurt, Braggs Amino Acids and baking soda. Made my hair smell like sour milk and teriyaki marinade all day. Baking soda dried it out, as well. Now, I rarely use "food" for treatments. It just doesn't seem to be worth it.

I'd try a purchased PT followed by a DT (if it's not a moisturizing one) before deciding that your hair doesn't like protein. While my hair has never met a protein it didn't like, some hair likes some better than others.
3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
modified CG, since April '07
CG since 3/11/08

SE PA

HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic; Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me, Marie Dean Leave Ins and Curl Creams
I occasionally use the gelatin PT, but mostly use moisturizing PTs like CJ Repair Me and SS Protein Repair. You generally need to DT after a PT if you're using a "regular" PT.

There is a treatment nicknamed the cherryloa PT--Greek yogurt, Braggs Amino Acids and baking soda. Made my hair smell like sour milk and teriyaki marinade all day. Baking soda dried it out, as well. Now, I rarely use "food" for treatments. It just doesn't seem to be worth it.

I'd try a purchased PT followed by a DT (if it's not a moisturizing one) before deciding that your hair doesn't like protein. While my hair has never met a protein it didn't like, some hair likes some better than others.
Originally Posted by kathymack
Question: Do you have any suggestions for drugstore PT treatments? Also, you said follow it with a DT "if it's not a moisturizing one". Which kind do you recommend? And why not a moisturizing kind if my hair felt like straw after the homemade PT?

See I told you I'm still learning and confused. Thank you for your help and thoughts on what's going on. My hair used to be really thick and shiny and I had no problem with curls definition, etc. But, something's gone haywire lately with my hair. It's thinning a bit also. I know I'm under ALOT of stress and in the middle of menopause.....so I suspect that may have something to do with things.
Curls 3a & 3b
Fine but thick shoulder length hair
Still trying to figure out the porosity and if my hair loves or hates protein
Shampoo and Conditioner: L'Oreal Eversleek
Styling Products: Jessicurl RR & CC
Hair color: Nice 'N Easy semi-permanent (box color)
Last haircut was a Devacut, prior to that a Ouidad cut, prior to that an ordinary layered cut.
Picture in my Avatar is from last summer, a bad layered cut growing out, and I had just started using Jessicurl products.
I notice that no one has mentioned the fact that the JC stylers have Magnesium Sulfate (Epsom Salt) in them, which some people find to be very drying.
There are different types of protein, you may find your hair prefers one type over another. Also, you may find that your hair prefers a lighter daily dose of protein in conditioners and stylers vs. a hard treatment.
I have to follow my PT's with a good DT or moisturizing conditioner. I like Sally's GVP Conditioning Balm. It is very moisturizing and inexpensive to boot!

Some drugstore/Sally's protein options are:
Cure Care conditioner -has protien and good for co wash, RO, and LI
VO5 Shea Cashmere conditioner - for a higher-protein cowash/conditioner.
V05 Kiwi Lime Clarifying Conditioner
VO5 Strawberries and Cream conditioner
Suave Naturals coconut conditioner. Good for cowashing
Ion Effective Care Treatment- a PT, cowash, or conditioner
Colorful Neutral Protein Filler- can be added to products to add protein
Ecostyler Krystal- gel with protein
LA Looks Curls- gel

The Sally's GVP Conditioning Balm is protein free, but it is quite moisturizing.
2b/c
fine, low/ normal porosity, med density, normal elasticity.
Dislikes: Aloe by itself, polyquat 4
Low poo (used rarely): CJ Curl Assurance
Co-wash: CJ Daily Fix
Condish: CJ Beauticurls Strengthening
Stylers: CCCCL, SCE FSG, SCE CHHE
PT: IA Girls PT w/ mag. sulfate, CJ Repair Me
DT: CJ Rehab or Deep fix
She meant to use a deep treatment if your protein treatment wasn't a moisturizing protein treatment. Examples of moisturizing protein treatments are the CJ Repair Me and SS Protein Repair that Kathymack mentioned.

I wouldn't do another protein treatment for at least 1 to 2 weeks, but a good deep treatment is in order right now.
Be Happy!

Type:2b/3ab?
Texture:Medium/fine
Porosity:Normal
Elasticity:Normal

Experimenting with too many products to name here. All this great info keeps my head spinning.

Last edited by raindear; 08-05-2012 at 01:43 PM. Reason: oops
I notice that no one has mentioned the fact that the JC stylers have Magnesium Sulfate (Epsom Salt) in them, which some people find to be very drying.
There are different types of protein, you may find your hair prefers one type over another. Also, you may find that your hair prefers a lighter daily dose of protein in conditioners and stylers vs. a hard treatment.
I have to follow my PT's with a good DT or moisturizing conditioner. I like Sally's GVP Conditioning Balm. It is very moisturizing and inexpensive to boot!
Originally Posted by Wavy7s
My basic complaint with Jessicurl products was that it didn't seem to "control" my hair. It made it soft most times (the exception being one time where it was a combo of too soft and weirdly tangled and dry in one spot). But, I also had a halo of frizz, especially some of the breakage of my fine hair frizzing up. My curl definition was "off". My hair became "poofy". In the beginning when I used her products I had more definition but I can't really say I felt like I had good clumping of my curls. And I used her products for thick hair NOT fine hair. After many months of use with Ouidad products last summer my hair became very dry and strawlike. Besides her products having different cones in it, I also noticed it has lots of protein. I am suspecting my hair was overloaded with protein at that point. Normally I can honestly say that my hair used to look really great with Ouidad products. Tress Effects styling gel was really my go to gel no matter what shampoo or conditioner I used. Things have just gone haywire this last year.
Curls 3a & 3b
Fine but thick shoulder length hair
Still trying to figure out the porosity and if my hair loves or hates protein
Shampoo and Conditioner: L'Oreal Eversleek
Styling Products: Jessicurl RR & CC
Hair color: Nice 'N Easy semi-permanent (box color)
Last haircut was a Devacut, prior to that a Ouidad cut, prior to that an ordinary layered cut.
Picture in my Avatar is from last summer, a bad layered cut growing out, and I had just started using Jessicurl products.
She meant to use a deep treatment if your protein treatment wasn't a moisturizing protein treatment. Examples of moisturizing protein treatments are the CJ Repair Me and SS Protein Repair that Kathymack mentioned.

I wouldn't do another protein treatment for at least 1 to 2 weeks, but a good deep treatment is in order right now.
Originally Posted by raindear
Well, I definitely won't do another PT treatment anytime soon. lol I will wait. So store bought PT's can be combined with moisture to prevent that dry, straw like mess? I'm assuming then that my homemade mixture of mayo, egg and olive oil wasn't moisturizing? For some reason I thought that mayo would be the moisture part of the treatment. I recall in high school which was many, many moons ago....I read in a magazine about mayo in the hair for shine, etc. I encased my hair in probably half the bottle of mayo and I remember having to wash it 4 or 5 times to get it out. But, I remember the next day my hair was incredible! I got compliments on how shiny it was and it was really soft. But, I didn't color my hair back then and I had wavy hair definitely not the curls I seemed to have acquired after having my children.
Curls 3a & 3b
Fine but thick shoulder length hair
Still trying to figure out the porosity and if my hair loves or hates protein
Shampoo and Conditioner: L'Oreal Eversleek
Styling Products: Jessicurl RR & CC
Hair color: Nice 'N Easy semi-permanent (box color)
Last haircut was a Devacut, prior to that a Ouidad cut, prior to that an ordinary layered cut.
Picture in my Avatar is from last summer, a bad layered cut growing out, and I had just started using Jessicurl products.

Last edited by butterfly57; 08-06-2012 at 07:31 AM. Reason: spelling
My basic complaint with Jessicurl products was that it didn't seem to "control" my hair. It made it soft most times (the exception being one time where it was a combo of too soft and weirdly tangled and dry in one spot). But, I also had a halo of frizz, especially some of the breakage of my fine hair frizzing up. My curl definition was "off". My hair became "poofy". In the beginning when I used her products I had more definition but I can't really say I felt like I had good clumping of my curls. And I used her products for thick hair NOT fine hair. After many months of use with Ouidad products last summer my hair became very dry and strawlike. Besides her products having different cones in it, I also noticed it has lots of protein. I am suspecting my hair was overloaded with protein at that point. Normally I can honestly say that my hair used to look really great with Ouidad products. Tress Effects styling gel was really my go to gel no matter what shampoo or conditioner I used. Things have just gone haywire this last year.
Originally Posted by butterfly57
I think that the majority of us do NOT use products from a single line. Sometimes you might find one product in a line that works really well for you, but the rest might either be 'blah' or disaster. Do not try to tie yourself to a single hair product line. Many people on these boards love Curl Junkie products, have you tried any of those? Again, they may not all work for you, but it seems like they have a high success rate for those that use them. Personally, I have found products that work well for me on the ground from many different brands. I do really like the Shea Moisture products which are available at Target. I also like KCCC (but not any of the other Kinky Curly products). And I have several different low-poos, conditioners, and gels that are other drugstore brands. Keep experimenting, and you'll find what works for you in time.

As for your PT, I have a really hard time believing eggs / mayo / olive oil would be much of a protein hit, and it does sound like it would have been moisturizing. I've never tried it so I can't really say for sure, but it doesn't sound like a hard hit of protein. But then again I'm used to a gelatin PT every week. I know with the gelatin PT you can make more moisturizing versions, I know pedaheh makes one of these (recipe here: Pedaheh's Hair Blog: Gelatin Protein Treatment). I can't comment on drugstore PTs as I've never used one.
I think that the majority of us do NOT use products from a single line. Sometimes you might find one product in a line that works really well for you, but the rest might either be 'blah' or disaster. Do not try to tie yourself to a single hair product line. Many people on these boards love Curl Junkie products, have you tried any of those? Again, they may not all work for you, but it seems like they have a high success rate for those that use them. Personally, I have found products that work well for me on the ground from many different brands. I do really like the Shea Moisture products which are available at Target. I also like KCCC (but not any of the other Kinky Curly products). And I have several different low-poos, conditioners, and gels that are other drugstore brands. Keep experimenting, and you'll find what works for you in time.

Hah! I may actually be a bit naive here...funny at my age! But, I just thought that the same product line was best used together (until I started really delving into the forums on here & seeing that most people use a mish mash of different brands). I realize the companies that are selling them or the hair stylist that's pushing them just want you to buy A-Z of the same product line. After reading ingredient labels I realize it doesn't matter. I believe I will take the list I've made up of drugstore brands and venture out to either Target/Walmart or RiteAid/CVS/Walgreens (see what's on sale too!) and just get some new products and experiment as everyone has suggested.

As for your PT, I have a really hard time believing eggs / mayo / olive oil would be much of a protein hit, and it does sound like it would have been moisturizing. I've never tried it so I can't really say for sure, but it doesn't sound like a hard hit of protein. But then again I'm used to a gelatin PT every week. I know with the gelatin PT you can make more moisturizing versions, I know pedaheh makes one of these (recipe here: Pedaheh's Hair Blog: Gelatin Protein Treatment). I can't comment on drugstore PTs as I've never used one.[/QUOTE]

I actually got the PT recipe from Live Curly - Live Free the link that KathyMack had provided me with (not the recipe the link to the site). The site was extremely interesting and informative, but the PT treatment...hmmm not too sure about. It didn't work any miracles at least for me. My hair is still stuck up in a ponytail and the humidity in NC is horrible for 2 months straight. I don't think another good hair day is coming until the fall. I'm considered getting a few inches chopped off. One, it would get rid of some of the old permanent hair color that's growing out with that wonderful demarcation line, and two it would get out any damaged hair that's just plain out frizzy and split and three, it would bring it up to the length of some of those broken, fine hairs that float all around my head. We shall see, depends on my mood....I think it may need to be a regular 'ole wet layered cut, because the Deva or Ouidad $100 fee plus tip, hurts my pocketbook and neither cut is that terrific for me to forego food on the table or gas in my car at this point in my life.
wavymom likes this.
Curls 3a & 3b
Fine but thick shoulder length hair
Still trying to figure out the porosity and if my hair loves or hates protein
Shampoo and Conditioner: L'Oreal Eversleek
Styling Products: Jessicurl RR & CC
Hair color: Nice 'N Easy semi-permanent (box color)
Last haircut was a Devacut, prior to that a Ouidad cut, prior to that an ordinary layered cut.
Picture in my Avatar is from last summer, a bad layered cut growing out, and I had just started using Jessicurl products.

Last edited by butterfly57; 08-08-2012 at 07:44 AM. Reason: oops! left out a word & not sure but I quoted "WavyMom" & somehow deleted her name in the quotes.

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