Go Back   CurlTalk > Hair > General Discussion about Curly Hair

Like Tree4Likes

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-10-2012, 11:47 PM   #1
 
wavymelsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 27
Default Fine, low porosity, easily weighed down. Pics included!!

Nekkid hair pics here are all after a clarifying wash with Kenra clarifying shampoo (sulfates), towel blotted, and air dried without touching it at all. Aside from the halo frizz, I don't think it looks (or feels) all that terrible. Not that I would parade around all proud of my hair when it looks like this, I'm just saying it doesn't seem like it needs a lot more moisture or product, even after a sulfate cleanse (and this is my 3rd or 4th time using this same shampoo this week). This can't be healthy for my hair, I know, but I feel like I have seriously tried everything.

I have gone for weeks using all of the "right" products and my hair becomes less wavy, weighed down, limp looking and generally blah, but as soon as I do a clarifying wash (sulfate style) my waves bounce right back. ??? I don't get it. Why must my hair not conform to all of the advice and rules that all of you wise CG ladies have to give? Boo, I say.

I have tried co-washing with I don't know how many products (even ones that I was sure were going to be perfect, like CJDF) but they all leave my hair weighed down after just one wash. I haven't found a low poo, baking soda/acv rinse, or soap bar, that has given me the same bouncy results as the Kenra, but I know using sulfates everyday will be too drying long term.

So here's my dilema. My hair is too fine and has too low of porosity to handle any co-wash routine, but all the wisdom from all of you CG folks says that I should not use harsh cleansers, especially not on a regular basis. My entire reason for starting this CG thing in the first place was to find a routine that would allow me to wash and allow my hair to air-dry so that I wouldn't have to blow dry and straighten and end up more hot/sweaty at the end of my heat-styling-getting-ready routine than before I showered. Plus, I'd like to grow my hair a little longer and have it not look straggly and frizzy. I'm not going for more curl (I've accepted the fact that my waves will never be more than waves), I just want to eliminate the frizz a bit and have as much consistency as possible.

6 months in to this, my second attempt at CG, and I STILL can't figure it out!! So frustrating!

What are the absolute lightest products available? Is there a list/thread somewhere that I've somehow missed? Or maybe I should just use a good moisturizing low-poo or milder sulfate shampoo and skip the conditioner altogether? Any suggestions?
Attached Thumbnails
Fine, low porosity, easily weighed down.  Pics included!!-sept.-2012-351.jpg   Fine, low porosity, easily weighed down.  Pics included!!-sept.-2012-350.jpg   Fine, low porosity, easily weighed down.  Pics included!!-sept.-2012-349.jpg  
__________________
Low porosity, fine, med. elasticity, 2A/B, ii
Yearly Average Dew Point:20-45
wavymelsy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2012, 04:21 AM   #2
 
mhen76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 810
Default

We have similar hair properties. Co-washing alone just didn't work for me either. I low-poo regularly. I like Shea Moisture, Burt's Bees and Carol's Daughter for low-poos. For rinse-outs, I love Tresemme Naturals. If I use a leave-in, I must use a very light hand and I'm careful not to overdo the stylers. If I feel build-up or overconditioning, an ACV rinse does the trick. It can be frustrating to find the products that work best for you. Keep experimenting!
__________________
3B, fine, normal to low porosity
Modified CG since June 2010
HGs: FSG, anything with glycerin, Tresemme Naturals conditioner, Curls Like Us cloths, satin pillowcases.
mhen76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2012, 05:31 AM   #3
 
kathymack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,626
Default

My hair has the same properties, too. Cowashing didn't do anything for my hair. I use the natural soap bars for cleansing, do at least one PT a week and use a lot of products with protein. My hair likes the richer products, but in minute amounts. While IAgirl's PT is loved by many, I find that other PTs work better, for me. CJ Repair Me is my favorite. I also like the one from SS and SSI.

You really have to do what works for you.
__________________
3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
modified CG, since April '07
CG since 3/11/08

SE PA

HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic; Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me
kathymack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2012, 09:21 AM   #4
 
wavymelsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 27
Default

Thanks ladies!!

And here I thought I had tried everything out there! mhen76, I'll have to give those low poos a try. I've actually used the Shea Moisture Coconut and Hibiscus Shampoo and really liked it, but every conditioner I matched with it was just too heavy. I'll have to give it another try. Do you use the Tresemme with it? I found the fragrance in the Tresemme to be super strong, good, just really potent...I wish they made that one fragrance-free! And which Carols Daughter and Burt's Bees shampoo do you like best...I pulled up quite a few options for both on the google search. And just out of curiosity, do you have any non-glycerin stylers that you like?

Kathymack, I think I've had good luck with IAgirl's PT because I've used it with the heat application method, but I haven't tried heat with any other PT. Do you use heat with your weekly PT? I've got the SS PT in my shower now...how do you use that one? After washing with a soap bar? With heat? And do you follow with a DT? I have still not found the right balance. I can apply the SS protein treatment and not even use conditioner afterwards and my hair still feels fine, but then there's always that frizzy halo situation that I've got going on in my above pics. I'll have to try some of my richer products with minute amounts as you suggested. You can see in my pics the length and thickness of my hair, and given that my hair is fine and low porosity, how much would you suggest that I use of say, for example, CJCCCC lite? How much of that would you say is a minute amount?
__________________
Low porosity, fine, med. elasticity, 2A/B, ii
Yearly Average Dew Point:20-45
wavymelsy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2012, 09:29 AM   #5
 
elizard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 283
Default

I don't have a lot to contribute, but I would say keep trying! I definitely notice a difference between your pre-CG picture and now.
wavymelsy likes this.
__________________
2b/c wavy modified CG since July 2012
medium texture, normal porosity, normal elasticity
hair likes protein, doesn't like oils, easily OC'd

low poo: JCHCC, CJGCS
RO/co-wash/LI: YTCarrots, DB Pumpkin Seed
stylers: a bunch of stylers that are all pretty much the same (KCCC, UFDCM, CRCM, CKCJ) or ArcAngel if I need more hold
DT/PT: CJRM, CNPF
elizard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2012, 10:17 AM   #6
 
kathymack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,626
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wavymelsy View Post

Kathymack, I think I've had good luck with IAgirl's PT because I've used it with the heat application method, but I haven't tried heat with any other PT. Do you use heat with your weekly PT? I've got the SS PT in my shower now...how do you use that one? After washing with a soap bar? With heat? And do you follow with a DT? I have still not found the right balance. I can apply the SS protein treatment and not even use conditioner afterwards and my hair still feels fine, but then there's always that frizzy halo situation that I've got going on in my above pics. I'll have to try some of my richer products with minute amounts as you suggested. You can see in my pics the length and thickness of my hair, and given that my hair is fine and low porosity, how much would you suggest that I use of say, for example, CJCCCC lite? How much of that would you say is a minute amount?
I usually don't do heat, but may leave it in for an hour if I'm busy doing something around the house. I don't have to DT after CJ or SS PT.

Your hair is longer then mine, but you don't look like there's a lot. I have acrylic nails that aren't real long. I do a backward scoop and smooth it on the canopy, do the same, bend over and smooth it on the bottom layers. Gently finger comb and then scrunch product in. I do that for all my layers.

Do you have halo frizz when wet?? If so, your problem may be polyquats. CCCC lite has Polyquaternium-10. I definitely can't use that 4 or 7 without
"issues." I feel that it's build up because I need a sulfate to remove it, but Curl Chemist suggested that it couldn't be build up in another thread.
__________________
3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
modified CG, since April '07
CG since 3/11/08

SE PA

HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic; Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me
kathymack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2012, 01:22 PM   #7
 
wavymelsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 27
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymack View Post
I usually don't do heat, but may leave it in for an hour if I'm busy doing something around the house. I don't have to DT after CJ or SS PT.

Your hair is longer then mine, but you don't look like there's a lot. I have acrylic nails that aren't real long. I do a backward scoop and smooth it on the canopy, do the same, bend over and smooth it on the bottom layers. Gently finger comb and then scrunch product in. I do that for all my layers.

Do you have halo frizz when wet?? If so, your problem may be polyquats. CCCC lite has Polyquaternium-10. I definitely can't use that 4 or 7 without
"issues." I feel that it's build up because I need a sulfate to remove it, but Curl Chemist suggested that it couldn't be build up in another thread.
I just did the hour long SS PT like you do...I'll post some pics when it's done air drying.

I actually haven't used CCCC lite much at all. It was just one of the 'heavier' products that I have laying around, so I thought I'd ask about it. I don't have halo frizz when my hair is wet, it's all smooth and shiny, so I don't think polyquat build-up (or whatever it is) is a problem. I haven't had luck with the CCCC lite when I've tried it in the past, which I just attributed to it being too heavy for me, but maybe my hair isn't a fan of polyquats either. I'll keep an eye out for those in my products.

Thanks again, for all of your advice!!
__________________
Low porosity, fine, med. elasticity, 2A/B, ii
Yearly Average Dew Point:20-45
wavymelsy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2012, 05:50 PM   #8
 
mhen76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 810
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wavymelsy View Post
Thanks ladies!!

And here I thought I had tried everything out there! mhen76, I'll have to give those low poos a try. I've actually used the Shea Moisture Coconut and Hibiscus Shampoo and really liked it, but every conditioner I matched with it was just too heavy. I'll have to give it another try. Do you use the Tresemme with it? I found the fragrance in the Tresemme to be super strong, good, just really potent...I wish they made that one fragrance-free! And which Carols Daughter and Burt's Bees shampoo do you like best...I pulled up quite a few options for both on the google search. And just out of curiosity, do you have any non-glycerin stylers that you like?
I use the Tresemme Naturals conditioner with the Shea Moisture Coconut and Hibiscus shampoo. I've also used Aubrey Organics Honeysuckle Rose conditioner with it with good luck. The AOHR didn't have the slip to it that I get from the Tresemme but it rinsed out well and didn't weigh me down.

The other low poos I've liked are Burt's Bees Grapefruit and Sugarbeet or Carol's Daughter Chocolat Smoothing Shampoo. The Burt's Bees leaves my hair with a very different feel - not sure how to describe it - not stripped, but cleaner than the richer shampoos. Regardless of the low poo, I need to be careful to use a lighter conditioner and rinse it all out. Leave ins will either sit on my hair and leave me greasy or weigh me down and leave me limp and stringy. I need to use a light hand with conditioners and stylers.

My hair responds really well to glycerin. Go figure. A lot of curlies avoid it like the plague but it always does me right. All my favorite stylers are heavy with glycerin.
__________________
3B, fine, normal to low porosity
Modified CG since June 2010
HGs: FSG, anything with glycerin, Tresemme Naturals conditioner, Curls Like Us cloths, satin pillowcases.
mhen76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2012, 07:22 PM   #9
 
kstan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 423
Default

wavymelsy, I wish my hair was as shiny as yours.
wavymelsy likes this.
__________________

started CG on 6/25/12.
  • 2c with a strait underneath
  • normal elasticity on top, none on the underneath
  • Fine side of Normal
  • Thick hair
  • Poriosity is a mystery. I think its all over the place.
kstan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2012, 10:33 PM   #10
 
wavymelsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 27
Default

mhen76, thanks for all of those details! I think I'll start with the Burt's Bees, a cleaner feel than some of the richer shampoos sounds just about right.

Here is a pic of today's hair after an hour long SS protein treatment, rinsed clean, and air dried. No deep treatment, no conditioner... My hair is so weird.
Attached Thumbnails
Fine, low porosity, easily weighed down.  Pics included!!-006.jpg  
__________________
Low porosity, fine, med. elasticity, 2A/B, ii
Yearly Average Dew Point:20-45
wavymelsy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2012, 01:25 PM   #11
 
BlackAngelPlayah's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,403
Default

Your hair us so awesome!!! 😍😍 Shiny and healthy looking.

You have to do what works. The CG method was designed for dry curls. If you don't have a dryness issue, and fine hair, it's likely going to weigh you down. I DON'T have fine or oily hair and I couldn't do co washing either. My scalp revolted!

Your hair looks great. Do what makes it look great.
wavymelsy likes this.
__________________
FroZen
BlackAngelPlayah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2012, 01:52 PM   #12
 
lcl0706's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 954
Default

I'm glad you posted this because my hair seems to love sulfate washes even though its against the "rules." I dont have much to add except my hair always looks & feels the best after a silicone free sulfate wash followed up by a fairly light conditioner. I've gone for over a year trying to be CG & avoiding sulfates but I have seriously wondered why lately, when my hair seems to prefer otherwise. I thought it was dry for a long time & focused on moisture moisture moisture & ended up with limp, weighed down curls that feel grimy & dirty. It does not like silicones, & protein has been good for me, but I'm honestly on the fence about sulfates. If it works, it works ya know.

Sent from my PG06100 using CurlTalk App
__________________
fine, thin, normal/(low?) porosity. Mod-CG. Usually I can't co-wash more than 1x a week, & sometimes I have to use T-Gel in rotation due to scalp issues.

Co-wash: VO5 Volumizing
Poo: Giovanni 50:50
RO:TN, Nexxus Youth Renewal, Alba Coconut
LI: KCKT
PT: gelatin PT, ION EC
Stylers: Giovanni mousse, TIGI Curls Rock amplifier (a-cone), Curls Rock Strong Hold Mousse
Gels: SCC spray gel

lcl0706 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2012, 02:12 PM   #13
 
jsuzkelley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 608
Default

I've been feeling a little this way also - I still do not use sulfates, but I've also stopped doing straight co-washes. I love to use CJDF as it has coco-betaine pretty high up on the list and I feel like it actually gets my hair clean but still moisturizes it. I've never used a sulfate poo that I liked when it was in my hair, but I do like the way may hair feels so much lighter when it's really clean. My stylist uses the DC low-poo when she trims my hair, so I'm thinking that an occasional low-poo is the way to go, it's just hard to find one that doesn't make my hair tangled. I've got the SM curl and shine shampoo, but I'm thinking about trying one of the L'Oreal sulfate-free poos again, as I remember them being pretty gentle but good at cleansing. They have a stronger cleansing agent, which I think I need to really clarify and get rid of build up, as my fine hair gets easily weighed down.

As many have said before, it should be more about finding what works for your hair, and not about sticking to a strict set of rules.
__________________
2c/3a, botticelli/wavy/'swavy (huh?)
fine, dense, normal porosity/elasticity, dry climate

My favorite brands are Kinky Curly, As I am, Curly Kinks, Curl Junkie, and Darcy's Botanicals. Also love sealing with oils (loving argan oil right now) and styling with jelly products (KCCC is my current favorite). Mostly trying to keep it simple!

CG since 12/29/2011
jsuzkelley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2012, 02:21 PM   #14
 
lcl0706's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 954
Default

My weekly clarifier lately has been Pantene Aqua Light. SLS, SLES, all the bad stuff but my hair does not feel stripped after using it, in fact it feels great & curls right up. I'm thinking of looking for an ALS shampoo (not CHS treatment shampoo because that stuff does NOT work for me) or an SLES shampoo minus the SLS to make myself feel better about using sulfates. I remember early "cg" days using Tresseme Naturals, an ALS shampoo before I knew what sulfates were, and not really having any ill effects. IDK.

Sent from my PG06100 using CurlTalk App
__________________
fine, thin, normal/(low?) porosity. Mod-CG. Usually I can't co-wash more than 1x a week, & sometimes I have to use T-Gel in rotation due to scalp issues.

Co-wash: VO5 Volumizing
Poo: Giovanni 50:50
RO:TN, Nexxus Youth Renewal, Alba Coconut
LI: KCKT
PT: gelatin PT, ION EC
Stylers: Giovanni mousse, TIGI Curls Rock amplifier (a-cone), Curls Rock Strong Hold Mousse
Gels: SCC spray gel

lcl0706 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2012, 02:30 PM   #15
 
jsuzkelley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 608
Default

lcl0706 - a lot of people have said good things about the CHS treatment shampoo, and I was considering trying it. What did you not like about it?
__________________
2c/3a, botticelli/wavy/'swavy (huh?)
fine, dense, normal porosity/elasticity, dry climate

My favorite brands are Kinky Curly, As I am, Curly Kinks, Curl Junkie, and Darcy's Botanicals. Also love sealing with oils (loving argan oil right now) and styling with jelly products (KCCC is my current favorite). Mostly trying to keep it simple!

CG since 12/29/2011
jsuzkelley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2012, 04:32 PM   #16
 
lcl0706's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 954
Default

I think for me its the protein & magnesium in it. Its the only shampoo I've ever used, sulfate or not, that makes my hair instantly feel like a tangled haystack.

Sent from my PG06100 using CurlTalk App
__________________
fine, thin, normal/(low?) porosity. Mod-CG. Usually I can't co-wash more than 1x a week, & sometimes I have to use T-Gel in rotation due to scalp issues.

Co-wash: VO5 Volumizing
Poo: Giovanni 50:50
RO:TN, Nexxus Youth Renewal, Alba Coconut
LI: KCKT
PT: gelatin PT, ION EC
Stylers: Giovanni mousse, TIGI Curls Rock amplifier (a-cone), Curls Rock Strong Hold Mousse
Gels: SCC spray gel

lcl0706 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2012, 07:44 PM   #17
 
guthak01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 180
Default

i have similar hair properties and I love the CHS treatment shampoo. It leaves my hair soft and manageable. IT doesn't tangle mine at all or dry it out. To each their own. The SM moisture retention shampoo is a good one. Also, giovanni tea tree shampoo is awesome, and the peppermint in it numbs your scalp, which gives a cooling sensation. Although it is not as gentle as the Treatment Shampoo.
__________________
3a/3b, Fine Hair, Low porosity, Medium Density
Poo- CHS Treatment Shampoo
Low-poo- Devacurl Low Poo
RO- Devacurl One Condition
Leave-In- KCKT/Curl Junkie Smoothing Lotion
guthak01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2012, 08:59 PM   #18
 
wavymelsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 27
Default

lcl0706, It sounds like we have very similar hair. I'm glad you commented on this thread. Also, I love that you referred to your hair as a 'tangled haystack'.

jsuzkelley, I was just checking out the L'Oreal sulfate-free poos today, but didn't end up buying one. You'll have to update us if you end up giving them a try.

guthak01, Hooray for some more things to try! Thanks for the suggestions.

Just out of curiosity, are all of your signatures up to date? I'd love to compare notes on your favorite light conditioners and styling products too.
__________________
Low porosity, fine, med. elasticity, 2A/B, ii
Yearly Average Dew Point:20-45
wavymelsy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2012, 09:13 AM   #19
 
lcl0706's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 954
Default

My sig is updated as of this morning. ION Effective Care is the heaviest RO I use, to me the protein in it counteracts the overmoisturizing and it's my favorite RO. I don't leave it in very long, just work it through and rinse. I don't use it as a PT, I do IAGirl's gelatin PT for that and all I need to follow it up with is a very light RO. VO5 is my lightest RO. It's a favorite for some for co-washes but I just cannot co-wash at all. I love KCKT as an LI because it's very light and great at detangling. Sometimes I'll use just KCKT and a bit of spray gel over it and be done.

I've taken to using a LOT less product lately, very light products, light application. I love the shrinkage I get with KCCC but I don't count it as a regular styler because I don't like the smell and the producty feeling I get with it, even if I don't use that much. I don't use it regularly, but I'm still working with it because I'd love to find a way to get it to work consistently.

HTH!
__________________
fine, thin, normal/(low?) porosity. Mod-CG. Usually I can't co-wash more than 1x a week, & sometimes I have to use T-Gel in rotation due to scalp issues.

Co-wash: VO5 Volumizing
Poo: Giovanni 50:50
RO:TN, Nexxus Youth Renewal, Alba Coconut
LI: KCKT
PT: gelatin PT, ION EC
Stylers: Giovanni mousse, TIGI Curls Rock amplifier (a-cone), Curls Rock Strong Hold Mousse
Gels: SCC spray gel

lcl0706 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2012, 04:40 PM   #20
 
Bookworm5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 102
Default

Have you tried any of the "Yes to" shampoos and conditioners? I'm finally having good luck with Yes to Tomatoes shampoo and conditioner.

I cannot CO wash (limp, greasy), and most sulfate shampoos (well, most ANY shampoos) leave me frizzy. Also, I was having trouble with styling products either leaving me producty or flat - hardly ever getting anything I liked that would last! It took a few shampoos for my hair to get used to YTT - I got the same waxy feeling and loss of curl that I experienced with soap & shampoo bars - but now my hair looks great and handles multiple styling products without looking dark/dirty. I used a combo of Curl Friends gel mixed with BRHG today and my hair looks like nothing is on it! So happy!

YTT is a volumizing product. I have a lot of natural volume, but since trying CG I was losing more and more of it. My mother, who has very fine hair and much tighter curl (like cotton candy if without product!) is having great luck with Yes to Carrots.

HTH!
wavymelsy likes this.
__________________
48 y/o married mom of 3
3a Baby fine Cherub Curls! Low porosity, normal elasticity

No longer CG - I use cones & shampoo every 2 - 3 days

http://myhair123.shutterfly.com/pictures/5

Currently trying: Aveda Shampure Shampoo & Conditioner, Aveda Be Curly Shampoo & Conditioner, Suave Captivating Curls Mousse, Condition 3 in 1 Mousse
Bookworm5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Trending Topics[-]hide

Thread Tools
Display Modes



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:20 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2011 NaturallyCurly.com