My hair is insane - super sensitive, knotty, help!

Like Tree4Likes

So I don't know how much longer I can try to figure out my hair, but what choice do I have????

I went from major knots and fall out (trying to comb through the knots) to losing half the volume of my hair and having to cut much of it off - realizing I have a protein sensitivity (or at least I think) -

So I eliminated ALL protein and that helped, but all I was left with was KCKT and KCCC which were my only "go-tos" and they were working - meaning, they gave me shine, softness, didn't leave my hair feeling brittle- could get me to the second day, and would wash out without making me have to comb through hundreds of tangles.

Then I started experimenting with some new products - ones without protein - but I kept getting left dry by night. Hair would start out fine, but as it dried, and as the day progressed, it would get more and more dry - till it started to feel brittle and a little "nesty" - by the next day I would have to wash it just b/c it was brittle and yucky (could never get second-day hair) - so I would suspect other ingredients (Since I wasn't using protein) like coconut, panthenol, etc.

It was nearly impossible to eliminate those things -

I got a bunch of samples from kathymack and they were all-natural, no chemicals, etc. so I was excited! But the same thing started happening - dryness by end of day, next-day hair was tangly or "nesty"

UGH!

Then I went back to KCKT and KCCC just to be "safe" and start over and get some decent hair days EXCEPT - THEY STOPPED WORKING TOO! I had a really bad hair day with them and KCCC suddenly felt drying!!!

UGH!

So I just went super simple. I had this Camillia Rose Aloe Whipped Gel and I used only that - I had decent hair. The next day, I tried it again - same thing - but this time I got frizz! Ugh!

Then yesterday I tried AO Mandarin Magic and I got GREAT HAIR! Nice "s"-curls, soft, shiny, bouncy and okay second-day hair. So I'm going to try this again and see...

But seriously ... who goes through this much experimentation? What is happening? I thought eliminating protein would help. But then I suspected panthenol, glycerin, aloe, coconut - and yet AOMM has panthenol and aloe in it.

So it's not obvious to me if my hair doesn't agree with an ingredient b/c often my hair will look fine for the first couple hours and then slowly "deteriorate" into dryness or tangles or poof.

Please help! I'd pay someone at this point to help me with this hair of mine!
3b/fine/normal porosity/normal elasticity

LOVES behentrimonium methosulfate
(don't ask me to pronounce that!)


Want to grow it long again!
And simply want to figure out this hair of mine!
Have you visited livecurlylivefree.com yet? They have a ton of info for determining your hair properties, which are an excellent starting point (they also sell a hair analysis service- you mail samples and they tell you your properties). I got the analysis after finding that my hair didn't act the way I was expecting it to based on what I thought my properties were- turns out I was wrong about my properties and once I adjusted for that my curls started behaving much better.
The other thing you might want to do is look up the dew points for your area and read up about ingredients to look for and/or avoid. For example, some people can't use glycerin in lower dew points.

Finally, it sounds crazy, but keep a hair journal of what you use, how your hair looks and feels and the dew point for the day. That will help you narrow down ingredients.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9800 using Tapatalk

3a/f/iii
Modified CG since 11/5/11
CLEANSE: CJ Daily Fix, DevaCare No-Poo, CHS Treatment Shampoo
RO: SS Caitlin's Conditioner, CJ Beauticurls Strengthening
LI: SS Repairing Protein Treatment, CHS Silk Leave-In
STYLE: Re:Coil, Curl Keeper, Deva Ultra Defining Gel, Curls Rock Amplifier,Sweet Curls Elixirs Okra Gel and Hard Hold Gel, SS Curl Enhancing Jelly and Firm Hold Gel
Sorry, i know its so frustrating sometimes. First, I would suggest clarifying. Just use a simple bs wash and ACV rinse.

What are you using to wash and condition with? Sorry if I missed it; read through twice and didn't recognize a wash or RO.

Are you sure you are normal porosity? Consider utilizing a couple of low-po techniques and see if that helps. For example, use warm water or bs to open the cuticles, apply conditioner, cover with shower cap and run warm water over it. Leave it on for a few minutes then rinse hair with warm water. (And ACV if you used bs.) Also, use more leave-in if you are in a climate that has become dry/cold for winter - someone suggested that to me a few weeks ago and if made a huge difference. (I use KCKT as well and had to double the amount.)
remember, with all advice or suggestions for your hair, YMMV!!
My hair:
2b wavy, medium texture, low porosity, med-high density. Protein finicky.
My routine:
Cleansing: DCNP, every 4-5 days (occasionally use CJ cleansers).
RO: CJSC, occasionally use JCDC
LI: KCKT or CJSL
Gel: KCCC, CJCIAB for 2nd day hair (sometimes third)

Heat is my friend: warm water rinses, steam caps, and diffuse dry. I love CLU cloths and my Denman.
Do you color your hair regularly? I'm asking because I had the worst "figuring my hair out" journey ever (well, it seemed like it anyway). It would take me days to describe everything I've tried, including methods, over a period of a few years. Products would work for awhile and then stop. I decided that aloe was one of the culprits. Turns out I was wrong. I could NEVER count on my hair to behave the same way. On days it was important that my hair looked decent, it was majorly stressful. One thing I discovered was that my hair can't take much moisture. The other thing I discovered is that my hair can't take much chemical coloring. So, I stopped chemical coloring (I use henna now but I realize that's not for everyone). Within 2 months of stopping the color, it was like I had a different head of hair. I wasn't using box coloring either --I was going to a stylist who used a demi-permanent color. I just didn't realize how much the coloring was messing with my hair until I stopped. Obviously, I don't know if that's the trouble with your hair; I'm just throwing it out there as something to consider.
2C/3A, fine, higher porosity.
Thanks, Corrina. I did have the hair analysis done and I have normal porosity - it's in my siggy line.

I don't pay attention to dew points though. How do I find that out?

I do keep a hair journal but literally NOTHING is working anymore!

Have you visited livecurlylivefree.com yet? They have a ton of info for determining your hair properties, which are an excellent starting point (they also sell a hair analysis service- you mail samples and they tell you your properties). I got the analysis after finding that my hair didn't act the way I was expecting it to based on what I thought my properties were- turns out I was wrong about my properties and once I adjusted for that my curls started behaving much better.
The other thing you might want to do is look up the dew points for your area and read up about ingredients to look for and/or avoid. For example, some people can't use glycerin in lower dew points.

Finally, it sounds crazy, but keep a hair journal of what you use, how your hair looks and feels and the dew point for the day. That will help you narrow down ingredients.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9800 using Tapatalk
Originally Posted by Corrina777
3b/fine/normal porosity/normal elasticity

LOVES behentrimonium methosulfate
(don't ask me to pronounce that!)


Want to grow it long again!
And simply want to figure out this hair of mine!
Along with Corrina's suggestion for checking dew points, I can try all this - good idea.

Right now I don't have a system. I have to say my hair does not get slip from many things except KCKT and a few others so I rarely cowash. Plus I always feel like I have build-up and I often use Skinny Suds by Botticelli Botanicals or Castille Oil (baby) - every so often I do a prell wash just to clarify.

But I can try this. I just don't know what condish or LI I'd use since NOTHING IS WORKING and I'm afraid my hair is reacting to everything -

At least I'm positive I can't use protein but I'm still not sure about coconut, panthenol, glycerin and aloe, so I basically am afraid to even try!

Sorry, i know its so frustrating sometimes. First, I would suggest clarifying. Just use a simple bs wash and ACV rinse.

What are you using to wash and condition with? Sorry if I missed it; read through twice and didn't recognize a wash or RO.

Are you sure you are normal porosity? Consider utilizing a couple of low-po techniques and see if that helps. For example, use warm water or bs to open the cuticles, apply conditioner, cover with shower cap and run warm water over it. Leave it on for a few minutes then rinse hair with warm water. (And ACV if you used bs.) Also, use more leave-in if you are in a climate that has become dry/cold for winter - someone suggested that to me a few weeks ago and if made a huge difference. (I use KCKT as well and had to double the amount.)
Originally Posted by Ml001
3b/fine/normal porosity/normal elasticity

LOVES behentrimonium methosulfate
(don't ask me to pronounce that!)


Want to grow it long again!
And simply want to figure out this hair of mine!
This sounds like my hair - I want to cry. I'm jealous of everyone who is like "my hair hates this or that" b/c my hair never behaves consistently enough to ever get an accurate read.

I will try focusing on just coconut for a while since I have a coconut condish that I can use as a LI maybe with the AOMM - it seems like AOMM hasn't given me any trouble, so maybe panthenol is okay but who knows??

Do most get dry by night or get second-day hair? I don't even really know what to expect from my hair - I just know it should get so tangled.

Do you color your hair regularly? I'm asking because I had the worst "figuring my hair out" journey ever (well, it seemed like it anyway). It would take me days to describe everything I've tried, including methods, over a period of a few years. Products would work for awhile and then stop. I decided that aloe was one of the culprits. Turns out I was wrong. I could NEVER count on my hair to behave the same way. On days it was important that my hair looked decent, it was majorly stressful. One thing I discovered was that my hair can't take much moisture. The other thing I discovered is that my hair can't take much chemical coloring. So, I stopped chemical coloring (I use henna now but I realize that's not for everyone). Within 2 months of stopping the color, it was like I had a different head of hair. I wasn't using box coloring either --I was going to a stylist who used a demi-permanent color. I just didn't realize how much the coloring was messing with my hair until I stopped. Obviously, I don't know if that's the trouble with your hair; I'm just throwing it out there as something to consider.
Originally Posted by JLeighs
3b/fine/normal porosity/normal elasticity

LOVES behentrimonium methosulfate
(don't ask me to pronounce that!)


Want to grow it long again!
And simply want to figure out this hair of mine!
I guess this is essentially protein, so no wonder it's not working -

Camille Rose Aloe whipped hair gel

Aloe Vera Gel, Distilled water, Macadamia Oil, Avocado, Jojoba, Sweet Almond Oil, Castor, Green Tea, Vitamin C, Vitamin E, Panthenol, Algae, Optiphen, Natural Fragrance.

Ingredient Attribute: Glycerin Free
Silicone Free
Sulfate Free
Paraben Free
Paraben Free
3b/fine/normal porosity/normal elasticity

LOVES behentrimonium methosulfate
(don't ask me to pronounce that!)


Want to grow it long again!
And simply want to figure out this hair of mine!
Thanks, Corrina. I did have the hair analysis done and I have normal porosity - it's in my siggy line.

I don't pay attention to dew points though. How do I find that out?
Originally Posted by LilaGirl
Look at the weather report for the day on the Weather Channel or other weather site on the computer, the dew point should be in there with all the other info beside the temperature...here in Canada they don't say dew point, they just give a humidity percentage for the day, but I know the US sites give actual "Dew Point".

You can also check out waterlily716 on youtube, she did a whole video about understanding dew points with curly hair. hth!
Finer, mixed with coarser strands, low-porosity, wavy curly whirly hair...3A, 2C hair. Medium thickness, medium elasticity.
S-shaped hair with corkscrew ends. My hair is even more confused than me ;p
My hair officially hates protein Once a month is enough!
Currently a fan of TiGi products, (rock on, TiGi Curlesque styling creme!) but that will soon change - I am a self-avowed product junkie! Yay!
BIG fan of supersoaker method - thanks Rudeechick!
OKay, I'm watching waterlily now - I haven't seen her videos in years and her hair is absolutely gorgeous!

The dewpoint here is 21 today so hopefully I'll find out what that means! I also put a call through to livecurlylivefree - I'm desperate for help!!
3b/fine/normal porosity/normal elasticity

LOVES behentrimonium methosulfate
(don't ask me to pronounce that!)


Want to grow it long again!
And simply want to figure out this hair of mine!
I'm confused - she says to use less humectants in lower dews and humectants are honey glycerin and panthenol - which makes sense, but then she says in low dews she uses a softer-hold gel like AO b5 which is all humectants?!
3b/fine/normal porosity/normal elasticity

LOVES behentrimonium methosulfate
(don't ask me to pronounce that!)


Want to grow it long again!
And simply want to figure out this hair of mine!
She also talks about GVP conditioning balm and I thought that had protein in it, but I guess not? Though I don't know if all those parabens are good for me

Water (Aqua), Propylene Glycol, Myristyl Alcohol, Cetrimonium Chloride, Cetearyl Alcohol, Decyl Oleate, Phenoxyethanol, Fragrance (Parfum), Methylparaben, Propylparaben, Hexyl Cinnamal, Rosmarinus Officinalis (Rosemary) Leaf Extract, Hydrastis Canadensis (Golden Seal) Extract, Fucus Vesiculosus (Bladderwack) Extract, Methyl-2-Octynoate
3b/fine/normal porosity/normal elasticity

LOVES behentrimonium methosulfate
(don't ask me to pronounce that!)


Want to grow it long again!
And simply want to figure out this hair of mine!
Anyway, I do color my hair - I used to use redken but now I used some italian brand - oh, framesi - it's a semi or demi permanent -

It's to cover grays, and it used to always make my hair feel AMAZING after, to be honest - though the last couple times, not so much.

Should I stop coloring?

How do I cover grays? I don't want my hair to be reddish (otherwise I'd use henna).

Also, I really never know how often I should poo and what my routine should be - basically I wash every other day and I do a poo and then condish and then rinse that out and do either that as a LI with a styler or a different LI with a styler. Is that normal? Should I be doing something different?
3b/fine/normal porosity/normal elasticity

LOVES behentrimonium methosulfate
(don't ask me to pronounce that!)


Want to grow it long again!
And simply want to figure out this hair of mine!
I need to cover my grays, too. I just couldn't use chemicals anymore. I did try Robert Craig, and it seemed gentler, but I didn't stick with it long enough to see if there was any long-term damage because I found that it faded from my gray quite quickly.

I honestly don't know of any solution other than henna or some type of vegetable dye. All I know is that when I stopped the chem coloring, my hair was completely different within a couple of months.

Anyway, I do color my hair - I used to use redken but now I used some italian brand - oh, framesi - it's a semi or demi permanent -

It's to cover grays, and it used to always make my hair feel AMAZING after, to be honest - though the last couple times, not so much.

Should I stop coloring?

How do I cover grays? I don't want my hair to be reddish (otherwise I'd use henna).

Also, I really never know how often I should poo and what my routine should be - basically I wash every other day and I do a poo and then condish and then rinse that out and do either that as a LI with a styler or a different LI with a styler. Is that normal? Should I be doing something different?
Originally Posted by LilaGirl
2C/3A, fine, higher porosity.
JLeighs,

That makes sense - I guess I only color my hair every few months, so the time in between I don't necessarily see improvement, which is why - for me - that may not make a huge difference? I don't know! But it's worth a shot!

I need to cover my grays, too. I just couldn't use chemicals anymore. I did try Robert Craig, and it seemed gentler, but I didn't stick with it long enough to see if there was any long-term damage because I found that it faded from my gray quite quickly.

I honestly don't know of any solution other than henna or some type of vegetable dye. All I know is that when I stopped the chem coloring, my hair was completely different within a couple of months.

Anyway, I do color my hair - I used to use redken but now I used some italian brand - oh, framesi - it's a semi or demi permanent -

It's to cover grays, and it used to always make my hair feel AMAZING after, to be honest - though the last couple times, not so much.

Should I stop coloring?

How do I cover grays? I don't want my hair to be reddish (otherwise I'd use henna).

Also, I really never know how often I should poo and what my routine should be - basically I wash every other day and I do a poo and then condish and then rinse that out and do either that as a LI with a styler or a different LI with a styler. Is that normal? Should I be doing something different?
Originally Posted by LilaGirl
Originally Posted by JLeighs
3b/fine/normal porosity/normal elasticity

LOVES behentrimonium methosulfate
(don't ask me to pronounce that!)


Want to grow it long again!
And simply want to figure out this hair of mine!
JLeighs,

That makes sense - I guess I only color my hair every few months, so the time in between I don't necessarily see improvement, which is why - for me - that may not make a huge difference? I don't know! But it's worth a shot!
Originally Posted by LilaGirl
I was coloring every 2 months or so as well. Right around the time my hair would seem to be more manageable, I'd color again. It took me awhile to figure out that the color was damaging my hair. I mean, I knew coloring did SOME damage; I just never imagined it was doing as much as it was. I thought my hair was just ridiculously temperamental. Now, 7 months post-chem coloring, my hair looks and feels healthier than it ever has before, and what's even more interesting is that now I can use products that I thought my hair hated. I'm glad I never cleaned out my product stash because now I'm using almost all of my products without issue.
2C/3A, fine, higher porosity.
In regard to waterlily...well, everyone's hair reacts differently - and you know the old saying, those who can't do, teach! ROFL! That aside, she does have lovely hair and good tips. It is true the Sally's Conditioning balm has no protein. I tried the actual Matrix one and was unimpressed - it did nothing for me, personally, but many curlies do swear by the balm.

I coloured my hair once with semi-permanent colour (Garnier brand) and it damned near killed my hair. It's taken three months to recover and I am never doing it again! Long live grey!

ETA I intended no harm to waterlily with the above line, I was just joking. I love her vids and I think I have watched every single one of them, just because I think she is sweet and she has rocking awesome hair She cheers me up!
Finer, mixed with coarser strands, low-porosity, wavy curly whirly hair...3A, 2C hair. Medium thickness, medium elasticity.
S-shaped hair with corkscrew ends. My hair is even more confused than me ;p
My hair officially hates protein Once a month is enough!
Currently a fan of TiGi products, (rock on, TiGi Curlesque styling creme!) but that will soon change - I am a self-avowed product junkie! Yay!
BIG fan of supersoaker method - thanks Rudeechick!

Last edited by Knotty_Maddy; 11-08-2012 at 11:56 AM.
Yeah, I guess I'm going to have to love gray - though I know I won't.

I spent like 2 days now watching waterlily videos! But I learned a lot and I'm using her methods now -

So I did dusting and cut single-strand knots.

I pineappled.

I did a Suave cowash in the shower (no more poo!) and then detangled with my fingers and added Biolage balm (very good)

I RO'd and put in Rehab and now I have that on my head with a heat bonnet.

Then I'll do KCKT and whatever gel I have - I'm still avoiding BRHG (though I may be able to use it again one day)

I ordered a sleep bonnet, and I will mist my hair later in the day if it starts to get dry.

I'm feeling hopeful!

Few questions (and I may start another post for this)

-Damage-free ways to cover gray?
-What do I mist with to bring back moisture?
- I think I'll stay protein free and do cowashing instead of poo
But what gels are good that are protein free, non-drying, and good for very low dew-points? What about LIs? I want something a little heavier than KCKT
3b/fine/normal porosity/normal elasticity

LOVES behentrimonium methosulfate
(don't ask me to pronounce that!)


Want to grow it long again!
And simply want to figure out this hair of mine!

I would lurve! to stop coloring my hair but grays stickingout from a bunch of dark curly hair? No can do for me. Maybe when I get closer to 50% gray.



I have 2 suggestions:



1) Flax seed gel or the okra product (MUDD from BB). With nothing in it but flax seeds. I consider that a no fail product in terms offrizz control and adding shine. I thinkthe stuff in KCNT marshmallow root -is related to okra and if that works for you, I think FSG would, without theissues of any other additives. Its justkinda hard to get the FSG wrong.



2) Sealing. I JUST figured out how to do this and it does help with dryness.
High Density, High Porosity, Medium Texture, 3B with some kink

DT: SS DDMT - HG
Lo-Poo: No Preference
Co-wash: CJ Smoothing Conditioner
RO: CJ Strengthening Conditioner - HG
LI: CK Satin Roots
Styler: CK Coil Jam
Other Likes: Castor Oil; CK Twist Whip, MD CSC
Dislikes: Wheat Protein; Aloe LIs or Stylers

Yeah, I've generally liked FSG but not sure what dew points to use that in. I'll def. go back to that.

Also - don't know much about sealing. Any tips? What's working for you?
3b/fine/normal porosity/normal elasticity

LOVES behentrimonium methosulfate
(don't ask me to pronounce that!)


Want to grow it long again!
And simply want to figure out this hair of mine!

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