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-   -   I can't get hold! (http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/general-discussion-about-curly-hair/151687-i-cant-get-hold.html)

Knotty_Maddy 11-06-2012 11:33 PM

I can't get hold!
 
I don't know what's going on...since I let my hair be as curly as it wants, none of the hold products I try stay in my hair - it's like they just don't affect it. They work great for the first few hours, and then they - disappear? My hair is not porous, so I know my hair isn't sucking them up...

But I can wear up to 4 layers of hold products, and guaranteed within a few hours, my hair just goes all soft again. Not weighed down, just hold-free. I like hold so I am not sure what's up. BTW I am no longer doing the no-poo thing so it doesn't matter to me if there are silicones in my hold products. My hair is medium everything ;p but also more fine than medium, and more coarse than porous...and I am a 2C, 3A, 3B (a few clumps are B.)

Does this happen to you? If so, what do you do to remedy this? What hold products work best for you? Thanks!

kathymack 11-07-2012 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knotty_Maddy (Post 2066122)

My hair is medium everything ;p but also more fine than medium, and more coarse than porous...and I am a 2C, 3A, 3B (a few clumps are B.)

Hair is fine, medium or coarse texture. High, average or low porosity. So, your hair isn't "more coarse than porous." Only reason I point this out is that it will help people give you help if they (and you) understand your properties. Here's a link that will help you if you haven't read this information Live Curly Live Free - Curly Hair Basics

It's possible that if you get the protein/moisture balance correct, your curl pattern will strengthen and you won't need the hold products, as much. The length, and therefore the weight, of your hair could be pulling out the curl.

A good haircut is the foundation for everything else. If you don't have long layers to "lighten" the weight and help your curls--that would be a good place to start. Next is the treatments. You need to make sure you hair is moist enough and has the right amount of protein. Next is the products. Depending where you live, the dewpoint is dropping--more moisture and, therefore, more layers.

Styling comes next. You may want to try something like plopping to help your curls start to "set" without the weight dragging them down. Then you would scrunch out the water with a CLU towel or cotton teeshirt--helps develop curl and reduce water weight. Finally, you can diffuse a little to harden the cast of the gel type product--and hold the curl while your hair dries. Last, and really important--don't touch your hair until it's completely dry. If you destroy the cast, the gel doesn't support your curl. Since I don't know your porosity, if it's more low then medium, it will take it a really long time to dry--even with the curl towels and some diffusing. You'll pull out the curl if you don't wait for it to be completely dry.

triple_spiral 11-07-2012 07:46 AM

Could you be overconditined or in need of protein? One of my cues that I need a PT is when products no longer have any "hold" or crunch at all in my hair. It just becomes soft and fuzzy no matter what.

Knotty_Maddy 11-07-2012 08:22 AM

Thanks, Kathymack, I stand corrected! lol! :iconbiggrin: Actually, what I was trying to describe with my hair is that it's a fine/medium mix, but my individual hairs are strong and my hair does hold its curl - I meant hold in the sense of holding the actual style I put it in...? I didn't explain myself very well ;p (i.e. if I put it into a bun or braid it won't stay there, or if I place it in a specific way and leave it down, it undoes itself and replaces itself however it wants ;p ) I can't layer it, if I do, then the layered hair stands out sideways, if that makes any sense...?

It takes forever to dry so I have been using the pixiecurl method, maybe I should allow it to dry naturally and see what happens. I knew about the gel cast and I do my plopping religiously! :D And the humidity here has been very high, we have had loads of precipitation....

I went to the Live curly site yesterday and I saw the offer of hair analysis, I do believe I will have it done. Thank you for all your information and effort taken to explain to me, I really appreciated it ;) I should know by now that product ain't everything!

Knotty_Maddy 11-07-2012 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by triple_spiral (Post 2066234)
Could you be overconditined or in need of protein? One of my cues that I need a PT is when products no longer have any "hold" or crunch at all in my hair. It just becomes soft and fuzzy no matter what.

Thanks, Triple_Spiral, I have been wondering the same thing myself - I avoid protein like the plague, hair hates it - but maybe I occasionally need some! Hard to find the right balance, huh? I will do an egg and mayo treatment today and see if it helps....my hair is not at the fuzzy stage, it just won't keep the style I put it in ;p so it is definitely soft! And I definitely am lacking crunch! lol! I am still learning how to live with my curls...they are very demanding! :evil4:

triple_spiral 11-07-2012 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knotty_Maddy (Post 2066248)
Quote:

Originally Posted by triple_spiral (Post 2066234)
Could you be overconditined or in need of protein? One of my cues that I need a PT is when products no longer have any "hold" or crunch at all in my hair. It just becomes soft and fuzzy no matter what.

Thanks, Triple_Spiral, I have been wondering the same thing myself - I avoid protein like the plague, hair hates it - but maybe I occasionally need some! Hard to find the right balance, huh? I will do an egg and mayo treatment today and see if it helps....my hair is not at the fuzzy stage, it just won't keep the style I put it in ;p so it is definitely soft! And I definitely am lacking crunch! lol! I am still learning how to live with my curls...they are very demanding! :evil4:

I avoid proteins as well, in my styling, shampoo, and conditioners - but I still need protein every now and then, which I get in the form of a treatment every couple of weeks. If you can get your hands of Repair Me, that is a really good treatment that actually doesn't tangle or make my hair rough at all....awesome results. If homemade, I used to use yogurt (never tried mayo) mixed with honey, olive oil, and conditioner.

Knotty_Maddy 11-07-2012 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by triple_spiral (Post 2066254)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Knotty_Maddy (Post 2066248)
Quote:

Originally Posted by triple_spiral (Post 2066234)
Could you be overconditined or in need of protein? One of my cues that I need a PT is when products no longer have any "hold" or crunch at all in my hair. It just becomes soft and fuzzy no matter what.

Thanks, Triple_Spiral, I have been wondering the same thing myself - I avoid protein like the plague, hair hates it - but maybe I occasionally need some! Hard to find the right balance, huh? I will do an egg and mayo treatment today and see if it helps....my hair is not at the fuzzy stage, it just won't keep the style I put it in ;p so it is definitely soft! And I definitely am lacking crunch! lol! I am still learning how to live with my curls...they are very demanding! :evil4:

I avoid proteins as well, in my styling, shampoo, and conditioners - but I still need protein every now and then, which I get in the form of a treatment every couple of weeks. If you can get your hands of Repair Me, that is a really good treatment that actually doesn't tangle or make my hair rough at all....awesome results. If homemade, I used to use yogurt (never tried mayo) mixed with honey, olive oil, and conditioner.

Tks! I will look for the Repair me! :) Meanwhile, I will try the yogourt method - I have plain Greek yogourt which is full of protein...I'll let you know how it goes!

Houseofcurls 11-08-2012 07:34 AM

I'm new to CG so I'm wondering, when you do a PT, do you wash it out and then go as normal? I tried doing just coconut oil I got from whole foods, and my hair was a mess, I had to wash it twice but then it was so so. Sorta weighed down.

triple_spiral 11-08-2012 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Houseofcurls (Post 2066777)
I'm new to CG so I'm wondering, when you do a PT, do you wash it out and then go as normal? I tried doing just coconut oil I got from whole foods, and my hair was a mess, I had to wash it twice but then it was so so. Sorta weighed down.

For my PTs, I dampen my hair with a spray bottle, apply the treatment and cover with one of those clear cheap shower caps, to use the heat from my head instead of a dryer. After half an hour to an hour I jump in the shower and wash my hair as usual. So IMO, you do rinse it out.

How much coconut oil did you use? Some ppl just don't react well to it, I've nerver tried it myself but in general I never use more than 10 - 15 drops of any oil or it wears my hair down.

Houseofcurls 11-08-2012 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by triple_spiral (Post 2066794)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Houseofcurls (Post 2066777)
I'm new to CG so I'm wondering, when you do a PT, do you wash it out and then go as normal? I tried doing just coconut oil I got from whole foods, and my hair was a mess, I had to wash it twice but then it was so so. Sorta weighed down.

For my PTs, I dampen my hair with a spray bottle, apply the treatment and cover with one of those clear cheap shower caps, to use the heat from my head instead of a dryer. After half an hour to an hour I jump in the shower and wash my hair as usual. So IMO, you do rinse it out.

How much coconut oil did you use? Some ppl just don't react well to it, I've nerver tried it myself but in general I never use more than 10 - 15 drops of any oil or it wears my hair down.

I used a LOT. I rubbed it all through my hair. I used a jar that I usually use for my sons eczema so it was hard until I rubbed it through my hair. So I coated it in it and left it for hours. I have very processed hair (recent highlights and straightening for the last 10 years). Maybe it was too much.

Knotty_Maddy 11-08-2012 09:16 AM

lol! That does sound like an awful lot! When I use it, I melt about half a cup of it by putting the amount in a measuring cup, then putting the measuring cup in a bowl of hot water, so that it melts without getting overly hot. Then I pour it a little at a time into my hair. I let it sit for 30 mins under a shower cap, and then I hop in the shower. One wash gets rid of it...

Just thought I would say what I do, in order for you to have a comparison point. :) lol can't believe I am derailing my own thread ;p

What hold products do you use? There! Back on track! lol ;)

triple_spiral 11-08-2012 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knotty_Maddy (Post 2066830)
lol! That does sound like an awful lot! When I use it, I melt about half a cup of it by putting the amount in a measuring cup, then putting the measuring cup in a bowl of hat water, so that it melts without getting overly hot. Then I pour it a little at a time into my hair. I let it sit for 30 mins under a shower cap, and then I hop in the shower. One wash gets rid of it...

Just thought I would say what I do, in order for you to have a comparison point. :) lol can't believe I am derailing my own thread ;p

What hold products do you use? There! Back on track! lol ;)

Honestly I can't even use products that are solid like coconut oil, etc....I tried using JC Nourish and Shine, had to melt it before applying.....um, it felt like wax coating my hair, horrible! I had to shampoo twice (with sulfates!!) to get it off.....

BACK ON TRACK: I use Garnier Pure Clean Gel, KCCC works too. Any kind of gel product really except no protein (for me). I've tried conditioner only and curl creams and they just NEVER work for me.

Knotty_Maddy 11-08-2012 11:20 AM

thanks, Spiral..I think I will try some of the Garnier pure clean, also I will try HESMU and HETT as well as Aussie Instant Freeze and see if those work ;p

I am about to go do your recommended yogourt DT, I will check back in later and let you know if it helped! :)

ETA I use Tigi's Curlesque curl cream under a hard gel (Kenra's Ciment) they don't have protein...the Curlesque cream is awesome, it works exactly like the AG Re:coil but has no mag sulf or protein in it...if that helps :)

kathymack 11-08-2012 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by triple_spiral (Post 2066794)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Houseofcurls (Post 2066777)
I'm new to CG so I'm wondering, when you do a PT, do you wash it out and then go as normal? I tried doing just coconut oil I got from whole foods, and my hair was a mess, I had to wash it twice but then it was so so. Sorta weighed down.

For my PTs, I dampen my hair with a spray bottle, apply the treatment and cover with one of those clear cheap shower caps, to use the heat from my head instead of a dryer. After half an hour to an hour I jump in the shower and wash my hair as usual. So IMO, you do rinse it out.

How much coconut oil did you use? Some ppl just don't react well to it, I've nerver tried it myself but in general I never use more than 10 - 15 drops of any oil or it wears my hair down.

I do my PT the same way.

My low porosity hair doesn't really like straight oils/butters. I can't use something that's thick and heavy like coconut oil. A few drops of one of the lighter oils should be more then enough.

Knotty_Maddy 11-08-2012 02:59 PM

Kathymack, I value your advice, so I am going to go off-topic here and ask if you seal your hair, and if so, how?

I also wanted to tell you that I have been thinking about all your suggestions in regard to hold, so as well as doing a yogurt honey protein treatment that Spiral suggested, I will also look into a good trim (my hair is past BSL, nearly to waist when stretched) because even if my hair hates layers, it can still use a trim. I am going to get my hair properly analysed too, as you suggested :) thanks for all your help!

kathymack 11-09-2012 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knotty_Maddy (Post 2067051)
Kathymack, I value your advice, so I am going to go off-topic here and ask if you seal your hair, and if so, how?

I also wanted to tell you that I have been thinking about all your suggestions in regard to hold, so as well as doing a yogurt honey protein treatment that Spiral suggested, I will also look into a good trim (my hair is past BSL, nearly to waist when stretched) because even if my hair hates layers, it can still use a trim. I am going to get my hair properly analysed too, as you suggested :) thanks for all your help!

I don't do a traditional seal because my hair doesn't like straight oil/butter. I do use a minute amount of really rich product as one of my layers, which I think does the same thing as sealing. It frequently takes my hair a few hours longer to absorb product after it's dry. Don't think that's a bad thing. My hair gets better throughout the day.

With so much hair, you may have a really difficult time maintaining your curl. It's a lot of weight and that pulls out the curl. You may have to consider a trade off--hair that's shorter and maintains it's curl, or the length.

countrycurlies 11-09-2012 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knotty_Maddy (Post 2066830)
lol! That does sound like an awful lot! When I use it, I melt about half a cup of it by putting the amount in a measuring cup, then putting the measuring cup in a bowl of hot water, so that it melts without getting overly hot. Then I pour it a little at a time into my hair. I let it sit for 30 mins under a shower cap, and then I hop in the shower. One wash gets rid of it...

Just thought I would say what I do, in order for you to have a comparison point. :) lol can't believe I am derailing my own thread ;p

What hold products do you use? There! Back on track! lol ;)

Have you tried the LA Looks sport gel? It has great hold, and is pretty cheap. I use it pretty regularly, but if I do change it up, I always end up going back to it. Hope this helps! :)

3b / Medium or Coarse / High Density / High Porosity
3b thick, curly hair, SL
CG method since August, 2012

CO wash: Garnier Fructis Pure Clean Conditioner (with brown sugar when needed)

rinse out CO:
TRESemme Naturals Radiant Volume Conditioner
leave-in: TRESemme Naturals Nourishing Moisture Conditioner

stylers: jojoba oil, LA looks sport gel (winter), ic fantasia hair polisher styling gel (summer)

Knotty_Maddy 11-09-2012 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kathymack (Post 2067331)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Knotty_Maddy (Post 2067051)
Kathymack, I value your advice, so I am going to go off-topic here and ask if you seal your hair, and if so, how?

I also wanted to tell you that I have been thinking about all your suggestions in regard to hold, so as well as doing a yogurt honey protein treatment that Spiral suggested, I will also look into a good trim (my hair is past BSL, nearly to waist when stretched) because even if my hair hates layers, it can still use a trim. I am going to get my hair properly analysed too, as you suggested :) thanks for all your help!

I don't do a traditional seal because my hair doesn't like straight oil/butter. I do use a minute amount of really rich product as one of my layers, which I think does the same thing as sealing. It frequently takes my hair a few hours longer to absorb product after it's dry. Don't think that's a bad thing. My hair gets better throughout the day.

With so much hair, you may have a really difficult time maintaining your curl. It's a lot of weight and that pulls out the curl. You may have to consider a trade off--hair that's shorter and maintains it's curl, or the length.

Thanks, KM. I thought maybe you sealed when you spoke of using a very few drops of oil. :) I haven't tried sealing with oil, so I thought maybe if I did that over my last layer of gel, it would help keep the style in.

Hmmm...a chop, eh? ;p You raised a very valid point there, but I have worked so hard to get it this long! But since it is becoming curlier than it was, (my S's are turning into corkscrews at the ends of the hair) I am now curious how it would look if I got a good 4 inches taken off! It might be nice to have hair that doesn't get stuck in my coat zippers and such ;p ok, I will consider this! Thanks again for your input :)

Knotty_Maddy 11-09-2012 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by countrycurlies (Post 2067370)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Knotty_Maddy (Post 2066830)
lol! That does sound like an awful lot! When I use it, I melt about half a cup of it by putting the amount in a measuring cup, then putting the measuring cup in a bowl of hot water, so that it melts without getting overly hot. Then I pour it a little at a time into my hair. I let it sit for 30 mins under a shower cap, and then I hop in the shower. One wash gets rid of it...

Just thought I would say what I do, in order for you to have a comparison point. :) lol can't believe I am derailing my own thread ;p

What hold products do you use? There! Back on track! lol ;)

Have you tried the LA Looks sport gel? It has great hold, and is pretty cheap. I use it pretty regularly, but if I do change it up, I always end up going back to it. Hope this helps! :)

I wish I could try it, CountryC! It isn't available here in Canada ;p and I don't think it can be ordered on line because it isn't a rare or expensive product...I suppose Walmart from the States might ship me some, I can check. I do know Amazon does not ship liquid goods to Canada...well, you have me thinking now! I will do some investigating :) Tx!

Jas76 11-09-2012 11:10 AM

You don't have LALS in Canada? You crazy Canooks. ;) (it's ok - my best friend is canadian. Lol!)

I know Walmart has it online. You could probably have one of your stateside friends buy it and ship it to you, too!

It's definitely a staple for me.


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