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Old 01-10-2013, 05:12 AM   #1
 
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Default What is the deal with polyquats???

I am still pretty new to all the different ingredients that are in products. I have been initially thinking that I have glycerin induced frizz, but maybe it is more related to polyquats...But what is this ingredient actually and why could it cause frizz?.. I did my hair last night with products that do NOT contain polyquat..and it is by far less dry and tangely, and has less frizz by at least 50%..its only one wash...so will continue to experiment...If anyone else has the issue...what are the products you are using???

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2b/c CG since 8/12
I have low porosity and fine/med texture. Easily weighed down and VERY frizzy crown, with straighter under layers

Low-poo:TJ TTT, CJ GCS
LI/RO/DC: CK Satin Roots,Sevi Pumpkin, SSI Okra reconstructor, CJ SAC,CJ RM
Stylers: AG Recoil, JC SS
Jellies: CK Coil Jam, Okra gel(HG)
Gel: JC CC, Ouidad H&H gel, Ouidad moisture lock gel

Hair loves moisture protein.
MUST Pixie diffuse.

My hair dose NOT like oils, butters or polyquats Or glycerin in high dews
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Old 01-10-2013, 07:11 AM   #2
 
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I think you might be my hair twin. I also am pretty new to all the specifics about ingredients, but I have also wondered about polyquats.
I may try cutting out polyquats today and let you know what happens.
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Hair Type: 2c/3a, fine, low-medium porosity, low density
Low-Poo: Organix Coconut Milk Shampoo
Clarifying: BS/ACV
Co-Wash: Suave Naturals Coconut
RO: Deva One Condition, GVP Conditioning Balm
LI: GVP Conditioning Balm, KCKT, Ion Effective Care
DT: Ion Reconstructor, Pure Coconut Oil
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Old 01-10-2013, 08:52 AM   #3
 
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We've had this discussion by pm. I stay away from polyquats. They aren't one ingredient, they are many chemicals. Technically, the full name is polyquarternium. Here's the Wikipedia link Polyquaternium - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Interesting, in a thread Curl Chemist inferred that I couldn't have build up from them. However, I did a search for articles. Just glanced through this one Polyquats as Conditioning Agents and it did take about build up and using a lowpoo regime (I only lowpoo when I use an ingredient my hair doesn't like--every few months. I use natural soap bars to cleanse my scalp, which is a whole other issue.)

I wrote this before I searched and skimmed the above article. Think it's ingeresting:

I have issues with them. If I use them (especially 4, 7 and 10), I find that I have frizz when wet. I need to lowpoo to remove the frizz and if I stay away from polyquats, it doesn't seem to come back.
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modified CG, since April '07
CG since 3/11/08

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HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic; Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me
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Old 01-10-2013, 09:10 AM   #4
 
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I think I might also have issues with polyquats, but I am not sure. I am going to low-poo tonight and cut them out completely to test it out.

I am new to all this too, but I started with polyquat-free products and after a mini-transition period, I had no problems with buildup. Then I used Deva stylers with polyquats and after about 4 to 5 days of using them, my hair was simultaneously weighed down, a little gunky, and really frizzy. Once I clarified, the same thing happened--I only got about 4 days without buildup and frizz. So I switched from Deva to polyquat-free products, and I went a solid two weeks without issues.

This weekend I felt adventurous again, and tried a new mousse that had a polyquat in it. I only used it Sunday & Monday, then switched back to polyquat free gel for the past few days. However, today I am feeling buildup and getting more frizz.

My theory is the polyquats haven't left my hair, but I'm just feeling the effects of them now. Is this possible?

Another question: what type of cleansing agent is required to remove polyquats? I tried a new low poo recently, and I don't think it did much. I ended up doing BS/ACV the next day instead.

As for polyquat-free products, I'm currently using Garnier Fructis pure clean gel.
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Old 01-10-2013, 01:11 PM   #5
 
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Thank you Shelly for asking and Kathy for answering in such detail. I was wondering myself. I think I'm going to try and avoid these quats then.
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Old 01-10-2013, 01:31 PM   #6
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flippacious View Post
I think I might also have issues with polyquats, but I am not sure. I am going to low-poo tonight and cut them out completely to test it out.

I am new to all this too, but I started with polyquat-free products and after a mini-transition period, I had no problems with buildup. Then I used Deva stylers with polyquats and after about 4 to 5 days of using them, my hair was simultaneously weighed down, a little gunky, and really frizzy. Once I clarified, the same thing happened--I only got about 4 days without buildup and frizz. So I switched from Deva to polyquat-free products, and I went a solid two weeks without issues.

This weekend I felt adventurous again, and tried a new mousse that had a polyquat in it. I only used it Sunday & Monday, then switched back to polyquat free gel for the past few days. However, today I am feeling buildup and getting more frizz.

My theory is the polyquats haven't left my hair, but I'm just feeling the effects of them now. Is this possible?

Another question: what type of cleansing agent is required to remove polyquats? I tried a new low poo recently, and I don't think it did much. I ended up doing BS/ACV the next day instead.

As for polyquat-free products, I'm currently using Garnier Fructis pure clean gel.
I believe the polyquats haven't left your hair. I find BS very stripping. While some people think it removes chemicals, I don't.

Here's an interesting, but old thread: Cones, polyquats, ions, and removal of buildup
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modified CG, since April '07
CG since 3/11/08

SE PA

HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic; Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me
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Old 01-10-2013, 06:22 PM   #7
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rtaylor93 View Post
I think you might be my hair twin. I also am pretty new to all the specifics about ingredients, but I have also wondered about polyquats.
I may try cutting out polyquats today and let you know what happens.
Yay!!! It dose look like we are twins!!.. Please do let me know how it works out for you. I just ordered a few samples from KathyMack...she has just been wonderful( thank you ) and will continue to experiment.
__________________
2b/c CG since 8/12
I have low porosity and fine/med texture. Easily weighed down and VERY frizzy crown, with straighter under layers

Low-poo:TJ TTT, CJ GCS
LI/RO/DC: CK Satin Roots,Sevi Pumpkin, SSI Okra reconstructor, CJ SAC,CJ RM
Stylers: AG Recoil, JC SS
Jellies: CK Coil Jam, Okra gel(HG)
Gel: JC CC, Ouidad H&H gel, Ouidad moisture lock gel

Hair loves moisture protein.
MUST Pixie diffuse.

My hair dose NOT like oils, butters or polyquats Or glycerin in high dews

Last edited by shellyRN07swavy; 01-11-2013 at 08:46 PM.
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Old 01-10-2013, 06:31 PM   #8
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymack View Post
We've had this discussion by pm. I stay away from polyquats. They aren't one ingredient, they are many chemicals. Technically, the full name is polyquarternium. Here's the Wikipedia link Polyquaternium - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Interesting, in a thread Curl Chemist inferred that I couldn't have build up from them. However, I did a search for articles. Just glanced through this one Polyquats as Conditioning Agents and it did take about build up and using a lowpoo regime (I only lowpoo when I use an ingredient my hair doesn't like--every few months. I use natural soap bars to cleanse my scalp, which is a whole other issue.)

I wrote this before I searched and skimmed the above article. Think it's ingeresting:

I have issues with them. If I use them (especially 4, 7 and 10), I find that I have frizz when wet. I need to lowpoo to remove the frizz and if I stay away from polyquats, it doesn't seem to come back.

I wanted to post this on the general board b/c I felt that others good benefit from this topic.I have been on nc.com pretty much every night and hadn't seen a post about this. Thanks for the links, they really help to explain this issue...And I GREATLY appreciate your help KathyMac!!!! You are wonderful and have been very patient with all my questions. I can't wait to get the samples so I can play Thank you again
__________________
2b/c CG since 8/12
I have low porosity and fine/med texture. Easily weighed down and VERY frizzy crown, with straighter under layers

Low-poo:TJ TTT, CJ GCS
LI/RO/DC: CK Satin Roots,Sevi Pumpkin, SSI Okra reconstructor, CJ SAC,CJ RM
Stylers: AG Recoil, JC SS
Jellies: CK Coil Jam, Okra gel(HG)
Gel: JC CC, Ouidad H&H gel, Ouidad moisture lock gel

Hair loves moisture protein.
MUST Pixie diffuse.

My hair dose NOT like oils, butters or polyquats Or glycerin in high dews
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Old 01-10-2013, 06:33 PM   #9
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dusalocks View Post
Thank you Shelly for asking and Kathy for answering in such detail. I was wondering myself. I think I'm going to try and avoid these quats then.
You are welcome!! Figured I wasn't the only one with this question Let me know how it works out...
__________________
2b/c CG since 8/12
I have low porosity and fine/med texture. Easily weighed down and VERY frizzy crown, with straighter under layers

Low-poo:TJ TTT, CJ GCS
LI/RO/DC: CK Satin Roots,Sevi Pumpkin, SSI Okra reconstructor, CJ SAC,CJ RM
Stylers: AG Recoil, JC SS
Jellies: CK Coil Jam, Okra gel(HG)
Gel: JC CC, Ouidad H&H gel, Ouidad moisture lock gel

Hair loves moisture protein.
MUST Pixie diffuse.

My hair dose NOT like oils, butters or polyquats Or glycerin in high dews
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Old 01-10-2013, 08:43 PM   #10
 
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Hi Shelly. I think you already know how I feel about polyquats. I stay away! For me, it's not the look of my hair so much as the feel that bothers me. When I use polyquats, I can feel them in my hair if I run my fingers through. I prefer that my products be absorbed by my hair and leave it feeling dry. The polyquats seem to coat the outside of the hair shaft, and I can actually rub the product off, which is pretty gross. -Liz
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2b/c wavy modified CG since July 2012
medium texture, normal porosity, normal elasticity
hair likes protein, doesn't like oils, easily OC'd

low poo: JCHCC, CJGCS
RO/co-wash/LI: YTCarrots, DB Pumpkin Seed
stylers: a bunch of stylers that are all pretty much the same (KCCC, UFDCM, CRCM, CKCJ) or ArcAngel if I need more hold
DT/PT: CJRM, CNPF

Last edited by elizard; 01-11-2013 at 05:42 AM. Reason: Correct poor choice of wording (that's what she said moment)
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Old 01-11-2013, 08:03 AM   #11
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elizard View Post
Hi Shelly. I think you already know how I feel about polyquats. I stay away! For me, it's not the look of my hair so much as the feel that bothers me. When I use polyquats, I can feel them in my hair if I run my fingers through. I prefer that my products be absorbed by my hair and leave it feeling dry. The polyquats seem to coat the outside of the hair shaft, and I can actually rub the product off, which is pretty gross. -Liz

Its your comment that actually peaked my interest from before, but I guess I didnt take it all in. And over the last few weeks I have had this in the back of my mind. Then a few days ago, I saw another post by kathymac regarding this. I have very hard water, even though I have a softner(Florida's water is HORRIBLE)and this could also be adding to the issue. So I thought I should try to omit any ingredients that I could control to help my poor hair out. So I figured why not give it a try.
__________________
2b/c CG since 8/12
I have low porosity and fine/med texture. Easily weighed down and VERY frizzy crown, with straighter under layers

Low-poo:TJ TTT, CJ GCS
LI/RO/DC: CK Satin Roots,Sevi Pumpkin, SSI Okra reconstructor, CJ SAC,CJ RM
Stylers: AG Recoil, JC SS
Jellies: CK Coil Jam, Okra gel(HG)
Gel: JC CC, Ouidad H&H gel, Ouidad moisture lock gel

Hair loves moisture protein.
MUST Pixie diffuse.

My hair dose NOT like oils, butters or polyquats Or glycerin in high dews
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Old 01-11-2013, 08:25 AM   #12
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymack View Post
I believe the polyquats haven't left your hair. I find BS very stripping. While some people think it removes chemicals, I don't.

Here's an interesting, but old thread: Cones, polyquats, ions, and removal of buildup
Thank you for this thread! I had been searching for some info on this, but hadn't found that specific thread. It answered so many of my questions!

I did a clarifying poo this morning with a proper cleansing agent, and my hair is 10x better already. It also answered my question about why my other low poo wasn't working--the cleansing agent was anionic and probably does not work against polyquats. I also noticed that the low poo itself HAD polyquats. Oy vey.

So I am now eliminating products with polyquats. Hopefully I won't have the buildup problem anymore. Thanks again!!
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Old 02-22-2013, 03:45 PM   #13
 
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Is it necessary to use a sulfate 'poo to remove polyquats? I've been having some major hair issues since I started experimenting with the Deva foam and the SM foam, and the only thing I can think is that the polyquats in both are building up on me.
Would the decyl glucoside in the SM 'poo be enough to remove them? Or do I need something stronger?
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CG (again) since Nov. 2012

Cleanse: SM Moisture Retention, Elucence MBC, KC Come Clean
Condish: Giovanni DL, Cure Care, Ion Treatment, GVP Balm, AOHR
Protein: AOGPB, CNPF, SSRPT
Stylers: KCCC, SM Souffle, AOMM, SS CEJ, JCRR, JCCC


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Old 02-22-2013, 03:54 PM   #14
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hootenanny View Post
Is it necessary to use a sulfate 'poo to remove polyquats? I've been having some major hair issues since I started experimenting with the Deva foam and the SM foam, and the only thing I can think is that the polyquats in both are building up on me.
Would the decyl glucoside in the SM 'poo be enough to remove them? Or do I need something stronger?
I had this problem with the Deva light defining gel and the decyl glucosides in the SM poos didn't work for me. I think, though, that the sources are mixed about whether decyl glucosides should work or not. I would try them first if you already have the SM shampoo. Ultimately, I ended up using SN coconut shampoo, which I had lying around and which has sodium laureth sulfate but no silicones or polyquats (I think). And then I put my Deva products away

I also had a second spell of buildup that SM poo wouldn't remove, and I ended up watering down my SN sulfate poo. When it was nice and runny, I didn't have to use as much to really distribute it around my head, but it still worked well.
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Old 02-22-2013, 04:05 PM   #15
 
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Thanks so much for the reply flippacious! I have some KC Come Clean which should remove the polyquats, but I was trying to stay away from it for a while because I find it too stripping if used regularly. I'll give the SM a go and hope for the best, otherwise I'll bust out the KC.

I'm really surprised and disappointed that polyquats can build up so much, especially given that they are in so many products. Oh well. Just another thing to steer clear of, or at least be cautious of.
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Medium/coarse, low porosity, dense, mix of 3s
CG (again) since Nov. 2012

Cleanse: SM Moisture Retention, Elucence MBC, KC Come Clean
Condish: Giovanni DL, Cure Care, Ion Treatment, GVP Balm, AOHR
Protein: AOGPB, CNPF, SSRPT
Stylers: KCCC, SM Souffle, AOMM, SS CEJ, JCRR, JCCC


Trying out steaming!
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