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Old 01-14-2013, 08:39 AM   #1
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
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Thumbs down ive had enough! over this!

I have been on this cg for almost a year now. Started as strict cg, was going great, then went downhill! Started needing to low poo more often until even that didn't feel enough. So I started modified cg using shampoo once a week sometimes twice, but still no silicones. Started having good hair days again...well ok ones...and now its just like I'm back where I was b4 cg! Hate everyday I Do my hair curly! Even the protein treatments I do aren't. Working the same! It used to work amazing, now its just blah! Started straightening my hair more often again bc I like to actually look good some days a month atleast....!
This journey is so stressful. I'm tired of buying and buying products to find after a few days it just ain't happening!
I've been thinking since my hair grew a little the length is what's killing the curl, but I don't even get any sort of clump or anything ever anymore! I end up with stringy, no volume, frizzy mess! I'm thinkin of cutting my hair again to see if that helps but I like my long hair don't know if I want to go back to short hair again!
So stressed out with this.....hate hate hate ending up every single day with a bad hair day! Uughhhh!
Don't know where to go from here............
__________________
2C-3A, FINE TEXTURE, NORMAL POROSITY, NORMAL ELASTICITY
(according to my hair analysis) [thought it was worst!]

Cowash: Suave Naturals
RO: Ion Effective Care, GVPCB
PT/DT: IAGIRL's PT, One n' Only Argan Hydrating Mask
LI: Cure Care, GVPCB
Style:EXPERIMENTING STILL!!! Trying: HE mousses,.la sports gel,
Mixed Chicks, SSCEJ, Ecostyler Krystal, KCCC
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Old 01-14-2013, 08:52 AM   #2
 
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I'm sorry. do you have layers? I was beginning to feel, to a degree, what you are feeling. My hair is mid back and layers were long gone. I added a bunch back in and it made a huge difference. I don't know your climate but when winter started here I had to use double the leave-in or use a thicker, richer one. Anyway, only you can decide if the curls are worth the effort for you - I understand how frustrating it can get. I just double checked how long you've been doing this...it took me 15 months to get to a point where I had more good days than bad though I didn't know my hair properties for much of that time (then after i figured it all out winter and long hair happened lol). Good luck to you as you figure out where you want to go from here with your hair.
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remember, with all advice or suggestions for your hair, YMMV!!
My hair:
2b wavy, medium texture, low porosity, med-high density. Protein finicky.
My routine:
Cleansing: DCNP, every 4-5 days (occasionally use CJ cleansers).
RO: CJSC, occasionally use JCDC
LI: KCKT or CJSL
Gel: KCCC, CJCIAB for 2nd day hair (sometimes third)

Heat is my friend: warm water rinses, steam caps, and diffuse dry. I love CLU cloths and my Denman.
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Old 01-14-2013, 03:58 PM   #3
 
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I think you should try these things:

1. Use a clarifying shampoo right away, and then every once in a while for now on. Follow each shampoo with a quality conditioner, based on your hair properties (find out about that at this site, using the search tool).

2. Rule out any problems your hair may have in reaction to protein or glycerin (can read up on that here, doing a search).

3. Read up on humidity and dew points, and make sure you're using products that fit the weather conditions in your area.

4. Get a hair trim or cut, and consider some layers (as M suggested).

5. Experiment: wash your hair less often. Twice per week may be stripping your hair of too much natural oil, resulting in dryness.

6. Step away from all that straightening you're still doing. Willing to bet that at least part of your complaints come as a result of straightening.

Good luck!
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Old 01-14-2013, 04:45 PM   #4
 
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I think you got good advice from M and Korkscrew. I've really been where you are often! It can be complicated figuring out what works and it's very discouraging.

Sometimes - less is more. Less shampooing, less protein, less gel. Start with a good trim and a simple routine and keep a little diary of how your hair responds. That has helped me track my good hair days. Otherwise it becomes a roller coaster of products and methods and more combos of products and methods.

I still have bad hair days, sometimes bad hair weeks depending on the weather so I sympathize. I hope you find what works predictably for you.
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2/c and some 3A. Modified CG.
Highly porous. Color over grey.
Best 1st day method: Super Soaker
Conditioners: Curl Junkie Beauticurls Strengthening Conditioner,
Deep condish: Curl Junkie Curl Rehab
Stylers: Experimenting with cones & sulfates while the dews are high. Sometimes try roller sets - classic glamor but I prefer my curls.
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Old 01-14-2013, 05:18 PM   #5
 
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I've been a CG for 11 months and completely understand what you are going through. I sometimes want to quit it, but I am too lazy to go back to straightening lol.

I think, like korkscrew said, you should wash less often. Do you finger comb or use a wide tooth comb? Have u tried coconut oil? I personally love shea moistures curling soufflé. It has coconut oil in it so it is very moisturizing. I sometimes use it alone without any leave in. It leaves a bit of a gel cast once the hair is dry, but if you shake it out, your hair feels very well moistured.

Have you tried twisting? I personally did this, and didn't like the effect because it stretched my curls out, but maybe you can try this.

Also there is the plopping method. I do this occasionally. After a shower, I use only gel, run it through my hair, scrunch it through. After, I flip my head over, wrap a scarf (they make specific material for this method but I had to improvise) and wrap the scarf so my hair is literally sitting on top of my hair inside the scarf. I do it at night bc my hair takes hours to dry. In the morning, I let my hair out and the curls are moisturized, moveable, and very soft. I honestly recommend the plopping method.

Do you wet your curls everyday? I noticed that in the beginning of this journey, I wet my hair everyday and ended up with frizzy hair. I stopped wetting it on second day hair and it got a little better. Try playing around with wetting and not wetting on the days after you wash.

I am not an expert, still on this journey myself, but I hope some of this helps. :-)
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Old 01-14-2013, 07:19 PM   #6
 
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Yes to Samantha's advice about trying to wet your hair less often. If I immerse my hair in water more often than every two or three days, the whole show comes to a grinding halt. My hair just ... well It's not a charming look and it feels like a wheat field.
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Old 01-14-2013, 09:51 PM   #7
 
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I do have layers in my hair, but I have but so much hair I have to watch it. I have very thin hair(dense) so it looks at times like I barely have much hair from no volume . I do wash everyday, but I tried second day once or twice and omg what a mess! How do your guys do second day hair? I usually wake up with a poofy tangled mess so I have to wash to detangle. I use a wide tooth comb but I don't think its helping the case lately. I haven't tried coconut oil bc I can't find any in the area but I have been dying to. I have very thin hair so anything thick or creamy weighs my hair down horribly which is very aggravating. And I tried plopping once or twice too and that too was a disaster with my thin short hair. Also I wasn't straightening much at all but with all the bad hair weeks I couldn't take it anymore. I can't look too much of a mess as I am a receptionist, and just seeing bad hair day after another was depressing me!
Ill try the less washing but it scares me lol. I don't have much time in the mornings to redo my hair if it looks horrid with having to get little kids ready for school and always waking up with not enough time! (Not a morning person hehe)
Thanks for the help girls ill keep trying just a little longer!
__________________
2C-3A, FINE TEXTURE, NORMAL POROSITY, NORMAL ELASTICITY
(according to my hair analysis) [thought it was worst!]

Cowash: Suave Naturals
RO: Ion Effective Care, GVPCB
PT/DT: IAGIRL's PT, One n' Only Argan Hydrating Mask
LI: Cure Care, GVPCB
Style:EXPERIMENTING STILL!!! Trying: HE mousses,.la sports gel,
Mixed Chicks, SSCEJ, Ecostyler Krystal, KCCC
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Old 01-14-2013, 10:51 PM   #8
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mom2lyse20 View Post
I do have layers in my hair, but I have but so much hair I have to watch it. I have very thin hair(dense) so it looks at times like I barely have much hair from no volume . I do wash everyday, but I tried second day once or twice and omg what a mess! How do your guys do second day hair? I usually wake up with a poofy tangled mess so I have to wash to detangle. I use a wide tooth comb but I don't think its helping the case lately. I haven't tried coconut oil bc I can't find any in the area but I have been dying to. I have very thin hair so anything thick or creamy weighs my hair down horribly which is very aggravating. And I tried plopping once or twice too and that too was a disaster with my thin short hair. Also I wasn't straightening much at all but with all the bad hair weeks I couldn't take it anymore. I can't look too much of a mess as I am a receptionist, and just seeing bad hair day after another was depressing me!
Ill try the less washing but it scares me lol. I don't have much time in the mornings to redo my hair if it looks horrid with having to get little kids ready for school and always waking up with not enough time! (Not a morning person hehe)
Thanks for the help girls ill keep trying just a little longer!
I get what u mean about the second day hair. I tend to wash my hair a lot bc by the second day it is a disaster so the answer seems to be to wash it. But honestly try washing your hair like korkscrew said, maybe twice a week or so.

Do you wrap your hair at night? Or do you at least put it in a pony tail so it isn't rustling around the pillow as u sleep? If so, you should try wrapping your hair with a silk scarf, or using a larger pony tail, so it doesn't rip hair, and put a big poof of your hair at the top when u go to sleep. This can help for 2nd day hair so its more manageable.

Unfortunately, I am still learning how to do second day hair myself, but I noticed a lot of women on here, just use a leave in to sort of refresh the curls. Also, you can try a lavender spray which is supposed to refresh the curls. Search the stuff on here to what is affordable, etc.

I do not know what brands that make specifically only coconut oil; however, the shea moisture curling souffle, is sold at walmart, target. I think they are now 10.99 but check bc they were for a while, 9.99. This is the closest for now that I can get to coconut oil since it is a predominant ingredient in it.

Lastly, I think the type of conditioner that you use as a co wash is vital. I noticed that the cheaper, more watered down conditioners I was using, made my hair bad on 2nd hair days. The more thick and better ingredient conditioners actually left my hair nice on 2nd hair days. So, assess your conditioner and see if maybe that could use a change. And concerning the wide tooth comb, do you comb your hair even after co washing? Once I got out of the shower, I used to put a little leave in and then comb again, and it made my hair worse. Now, even though it bothers me bc I see frizz and my first action is to run to the comb, but I am now only combing when I co wash and after that i leave my hair alone and simply use my fingers. Bc your hair is so fragile especially when nothing is protecting the hair shaft, so a finger is a lot more gentle.
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Old 01-14-2013, 11:01 PM   #9
 
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Can you tell us what your regimen is and what products you use and your hair properties so we can give you better advice instead of guessing?

Sent from my SPH-L710 using CurlTalk App
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Curl Routine
Co: As I am Coconut CoWash,VO5 Claifying Conditioner
DC: Macadamia Repair Masque
LI: KCKT, Suave Naturals Coconut
Style Creme: Shea Moisture Curl Enhancing Smoothie
Gel: KCCC, Eco Styler Argan Oil
Sealer: EVCO, EVOO


3b/3c, High Desity, High Porosity, Medium Texture, BSL
""Live by the sun, love by the moon"



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Old 01-15-2013, 04:15 AM   #10
 
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You're welcome ... Yeah, I really think you should research your hair properties and report back here because we might be able to be of better help.

I totally agree w/the others above. Question: Do you leave your conditioner in or rinse it out? Some people benefit from leaving it in. A lot of people say they have difficulty getting "2nd day hair". You might want to read posts about it here. And I agree w/overnight hair tips: Satin pillowcase, satin bonnet if you have it, and read up on the pineappling method too. I also recommend that you visit the 2c and 3a hair forums (once you know your properties) too.
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Old 01-15-2013, 09:25 AM   #11
 
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+1 to knowing hair properties. For second day hair, I have had luck with either the washcloth method (there is a post on it here somewhere) or simply applying CJCIAB to dry hair and scrunching it in (its a light, thin, watery gel). I've actually achieved third day hair with the gel.
__________________
remember, with all advice or suggestions for your hair, YMMV!!
My hair:
2b wavy, medium texture, low porosity, med-high density. Protein finicky.
My routine:
Cleansing: DCNP, every 4-5 days (occasionally use CJ cleansers).
RO: CJSC, occasionally use JCDC
LI: KCKT or CJSL
Gel: KCCC, CJCIAB for 2nd day hair (sometimes third)

Heat is my friend: warm water rinses, steam caps, and diffuse dry. I love CLU cloths and my Denman.
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Old 01-15-2013, 11:24 AM   #12
 
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Um, her hair properties are in her siggy, and she got the hair analysis from Live Curly Live Free, so they should be correct. Products may have changed, but for anyone using the app:

2C-3A, FINE TEXTURE, NORMAL POROSITY, NORMAL ELASTICITY
(according to my hair analysis) [thought it was worst!]

Cowash: Suave Naturals
RO: Ion Effective Care, GVPCB
PT/DT: IAGIRL's PT, One n' Only Argan Hydrating Mask
LI: Cure Care, GVPCB
Style:EXPERIMENTING STILL!!! Trying: HE mousses,.la sports gel,
Mixed Chicks, SSCEJ, Ecostyler Krystal, KCCC
__________________
CG since 11/2011
2c /3a F /Mii, low porosity

Winter Products/Routine:
Clarifying: ACV rinses, Suave Professional Men Deep Clean Peppermint
Low Poo: Renpure Luxurious Argan Oil
Co-washes: VO5 Kiwi Lime Squeeze or Strawberries & Cream, Cure Care
RO: VO5 KLS or S&C or Shea Cashmere, Cure Care
LI (if needed): VO5 S&C or Renpure Luxurious Argan Oil (old formula)
Styler: HETT
PT: IAGirl's (every 2 weeks or as needed)
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Old 01-15-2013, 11:56 AM   #13
 
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Okay. I have a few suggestions, and I agree with a lot of what has already been said.

Please don't be offended, but here's the first thing. You're not actually CG. You need to clarify with a silicone free, sulfate poo (J&J Baby Shampoo would do), and start over. Eliminate One 'n Only Argan Oil Hydrating Mask. No idea about Cure Care, as I couldn't find it anywhere to check the ingredients list. You don't say what Mixed Chicks products you use, but they have at least some non-CG products. For some reason, the HE Set Me Up Mousse seems to leave a coating on my hair too, so if that's one you've been using, it could be contributing to the problem. The reason I checked ingredients lists for the products in your signature is because when CG stops working, it's most often a sign IME that you've got something coating your hair which isn't being shifted by what you're using to cleanse it.

One 'n Only Argan Oil Hydrating Mask Ingredients: Water (Aqua, Eau), Cetearyl Alcohol, Behentrimonium Methosulfate, Amodimethicone, Fragrance (Parfum), Acetamide MEA, Canola Oil, Butyrospermum Parkii (Shea Butter), Sodium PCA, Hydrolyzed Vegetable Protein PG-Propyl Silanetriol, Hydrolyzed Keratin, Argania Spinosa Kernel Oil, Trideceth-12, Cetrimonium Chloride, Methylchloroisothiazolinone, Methylisothiazolinone, Red 4 (CI 14700), Yellow 10 (CI 47005.

I have extremely baby fine hair, almost cobweb weight, and it's very easy for it to get weighed down also. I suggest that coconut oil is not the best thing for it, unless you're using it pre-low-pooing. (If you still want to try it, try looking for it in a health food store, or an Indian/Pakistani/Middle Eastern/spice store.) Jojoba oil, in extremely light quantities works best for me. I also find that more curl definition is not a positive thing for hair which is or looks thin. (Mine isn't thin, but is so ridiculously fine that it looks like it is.)

I'd suggest trying Jessicurl's Aloeba Conditioner, which is incredibly light, and detangles almost without any effort; and either a homemade flaxseed gel or Jessicurl Rockin Ringlets Styling Potion. If you need more hold, her Confident Coils mixes well with the Rockin Ringlets or homemade FSG, and still leaves your hair less glued together than more conventional gels. I love her Deep Treatment also. I've also had very good luck with Curly Hair Solutions Curl Keeper, which is really light weight. For more cohesion, without the whole glued together hair thing, Curly Hair Solutions Tweek works really well for me, helping my curls stay together, but still have bounce.

When I started CGing, my hair was really short. (My hair has so much jump that conventional hairdressers can't get close to getting it even until there's almost none left.) Plopping can be hard with short hair partially because most of the instructions are from and for people with long hair. Try thinking of plopping as holding a scrunch in your hair. I found that if I scrunched my hair on the top of my head well, then lowered my head onto the plopping towel/T-shirt, then scrunched the sides and back well, and wrapped, holding the scrunch in, it worked really well for me. In the morning, I'd scrub my roots with my fingertips to loosen any hair that was plastered to my scalp, then scrunched.

When my hair got a bit longer, I was finally able to pineapple, sort of. I just had to put my hair in smaller bunches at first, instead of one big one. I find that dampening my hands, and scrunching a little water into the pineappled hair helps it regroup and recurl a bit overnight.
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Baby Fine 3B, low porosity, normal density and elasticity
CGing since July 2008
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Old 01-15-2013, 11:57 AM   #14
 
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For second day hair, use a spray bottle filled with water and spray hair with it. U want hair to be saturated. Wait 1 minute or so after u have sprayed your hair to allow water to sink in. Then start shaking ur hair to loosen the hair. U will see that your curls will magically change from a flattened to bouncy state. You do not need to comb hair. Do not touch. I was hair twice a week on Wed and Sat and use this trick the other days. Hair always looks fresh. I have 4a hair, mid-neck length if stretched. You can add a bit of oil to the water if you want.
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Old 01-15-2013, 01:24 PM   #15
 
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I use Cure Care myself, and unless it's been recently reformulated, it's silicone, fragrance, and dye free. It has a decent amount of protein and is a lighter conditioner, not heavy at all.

Here's what's in my bottle: Water/Eau (Aqua), Cetyl Alcohol, Cetrimonium Bromide, Hydrolyzed Keratin, Methylparaben, Propylparaben, Citric Acid, Methylchloroisothiazolinone, Methylisothiazolinone.
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CG since 11/2011
2c /3a F /Mii, low porosity

Winter Products/Routine:
Clarifying: ACV rinses, Suave Professional Men Deep Clean Peppermint
Low Poo: Renpure Luxurious Argan Oil
Co-washes: VO5 Kiwi Lime Squeeze or Strawberries & Cream, Cure Care
RO: VO5 KLS or S&C or Shea Cashmere, Cure Care
LI (if needed): VO5 S&C or Renpure Luxurious Argan Oil (old formula)
Styler: HETT
PT: IAGirl's (every 2 weeks or as needed)

Last edited by Geek_Chic; 01-15-2013 at 01:25 PM. Reason: spelling correction
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Old 01-15-2013, 02:59 PM   #16
 
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Mom2lyse20, did you just post your properties after our posts urging you to do so)? Usually I notice sigs, so I'm sorry if you'd already had them listed and I missed seeing them. Just FYI: those sites trying to sell hair property analysis can't give you a final verdict because certain hair properties can and often do change for all kinds of reasons. So if you just figured out your properties, cool. But if it's been a while since you've tested your porosity and elasticity, you might want to check those again, using some directions in some NC articles here, because after your frequent hair straightening, you may now have high porosity and less than normal elasticity, especially considering the nature of your complaints.

You've received all kinds of advice here so far, almost feels like we've thrown the whole beauty supply store at you lol but hopefully something will help.
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Last edited by Korkscrew; 01-15-2013 at 04:21 PM.
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Old 01-15-2013, 03:03 PM   #17
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geek_Chic View Post
Um, her hair properties are in her siggy, and she got the hair analysis from Live Curly Live Free, so they should be correct. Products may have changed, but for anyone using the app:

2C-3A, FINE TEXTURE, NORMAL POROSITY, NORMAL ELASTICITY
(according to my hair analysis) [thought it was worst!]

Cowash: Suave Naturals
RO: Ion Effective Care, GVPCB
PT/DT: IAGIRL's PT, One n' Only Argan Hydrating Mask
LI: Cure Care, GVPCB
Style:EXPERIMENTING STILL!!! Trying: HE mousses,.la sports gel,
Mixed Chicks, SSCEJ, Ecostyler Krystal, KCCC
I was using the app. Thanks.


Sent from my SPH-L710 using CurlTalk App
__________________
Curl Routine
Co: As I am Coconut CoWash,VO5 Claifying Conditioner
DC: Macadamia Repair Masque
LI: KCKT, Suave Naturals Coconut
Style Creme: Shea Moisture Curl Enhancing Smoothie
Gel: KCCC, Eco Styler Argan Oil
Sealer: EVCO, EVOO


3b/3c, High Desity, High Porosity, Medium Texture, BSL
""Live by the sun, love by the moon"



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Old 01-15-2013, 08:53 PM   #18
 
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Love all the help....thanks! I have had those properties for a while now so I should relook into it prob did change! :/ Thanks! Those products I barely use anymore...I've tried so many I really can't say all. Omg I didn't realize the argan oil had cones in it wth! I swear I never saw that how???? omg thanks so much! Well yes now I'm mod cg but I am going to try full cg again! I tried leaving my cond. In when I wash but it was toooo heavy and so I found cure care which works great doesn't weigh down at all! I use suave for cowash, gvpcb for RO. I tried vo5 for cowash but it became heavy on my hair after a while I guess. So for second day hair I. Just spray a little bit to refresh curl? Do I apply any kind of product or just spray?
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2C-3A, FINE TEXTURE, NORMAL POROSITY, NORMAL ELASTICITY
(according to my hair analysis) [thought it was worst!]

Cowash: Suave Naturals
RO: Ion Effective Care, GVPCB
PT/DT: IAGIRL's PT, One n' Only Argan Hydrating Mask
LI: Cure Care, GVPCB
Style:EXPERIMENTING STILL!!! Trying: HE mousses,.la sports gel,
Mixed Chicks, SSCEJ, Ecostyler Krystal, KCCC
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Old 01-15-2013, 10:49 PM   #19
 
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Just wanted to pop in for support!! Most of us have felt this way, often more than once!!

As it's already been said, the one and only argan treatment has cones, so probably you are dealing with build up and/or low moisture penetration. So clarifying is probably your next step. If you want to continue to use the o&o, you'll need to clarify somewhat regularly.

Then as everyone has said, cut back on the shampooing. Or if you feel you need to use the poo, add oil to it, or try pre-pooing with oil or condish, or you can try gentler poo - I LOVE SM's low poo, but it will not remove cones. I have also used Organix Shea, and have heard Renpure's red bottled shampoo is highly recommended - both of those will remove cones but are sulfate free.

Good luck!! I know it can be frustrating at times!! KUP!
__________________
2c/3a/3b, Fine/med, Dense, high porous, & normal elas.

Lo-poo - Renpure Keratin, SMR, Giovanni SaS
clarifying - mix Johnson's H2T with low poo
Co-wash - Suave Nats. clar. or coco.
RO - GVPCB, Ion Eff. Care, TN.
LI - SMR, Cure Care, or RO
Seal - MO or Jojoba
DT - + honey, ACV, & EVOO to SM masque & GVPCB
PT - Gelatin!, CNPF
Styling - FSG, AIF, BRHG, LALS/PS, GF curl spray gel, SM Souffle/Smoothie, LOOB
Oils - MO!, EVOO, jojoba, GSO, SM Elixer, EVCO, VO5 Hairdressing
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Old 01-15-2013, 11:57 PM   #20
 
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You're still getting so much great advice and my reaction is (confession): I'm actually a little envious. Wish I'd had so many people dispensing hair wisdom back when I was first trying to accept and deal with my curls, because it was a rough and lonely ride w/a steep learning curve.

But at the same time I'm really happy for you and very hopeful that your relationship with your hair is going to improve really soon
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