Tired of it...the cone controversy.

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Amodimethicone for me don't work , gave me build up.

I'm still looking and testing a sealant that suits my hair. And at least now, wouldn't want to test silicones.

See, I'm not saying that the silicones are bad. I know its good effects, such as: softness, shine, better manageability. But my big question is: can we compare cones to oils when we talk about treatment and not simply "makeup"?
Originally Posted by Cau
Have you tried mineral oil for sealing?? It's my HG!

I know some silicones like a-cone actually target damaged areas. So for some that may be beneficial.

I have heard others says a-cone built up on them, but in reading today I've learned that that's not technically possible. I'm not saying that it didnt give you problems, but perhaps it wasn't build up?

I also learned that its possible in a lot of cases the build up is happening because of two different ingredients that don't like to play together, and not the cones. Especially if you aren't using a "matching" poo and condish. (A lot of that is in that link I posted above.)

I agree the key is likely "don't over-do".
I was thinking today that in my pre-CG days I was using a sulfate poo and coney condish, then different cones in my LI and curl-booster products. Plus I often used a shine spray! (COOOONES!!!)

So maybe ONE product with a cone or two is not going to be at all equatable to my (and many others) pre-CG routines! So I'm going to experiment a little and see how it goes....
Originally Posted by Jas76
I had all symptoms of buil up, and was using just a single product with amodimethicone (Fresh Curls - Redken). When I stopped using, I improved. Then I went back to using, and again I had build up. But, I have to agree with you, I wasn't using a "matching".

About mineral oil... wow!...
After reading your post, I have been searching on it and I was excited about what I read. I had not considered using mineral oil, for it be derived from petroleum. However, from what I read it looks like it may be the sealant I need.

Has Mineral Oil Gotten A Bad Rap?

Hairloss and Topical Coconut Oil Pre-Wash-The Ultimate Hair Conditioner

Here in Brazil it is summer, and this year is particularly dry. It is difficult to keep moisture, DC and PT. So, I'm going to try the mineral oil as a sealant. I hope it's my HG too!... (:

Thanks Jas...
3b/c - fine texture - normal/high porosity (from coloring)

Personal Website
Girls... I agree with all of you...

I think the most important thing is what we are doing here: keep our minds open.
3b/c - fine texture - normal/high porosity (from coloring)

Personal Website
Well, I did it. I used a condish with amodimethicone.

My hair does feel a little different. It looks a little more healthy at the ends, I must admit.

I think the real test will be the next co-wash, and then the nest low-poo. I want to see if I have any trouble with moisture. If I like the effects of it but moisture becomes a concern, I'll try DT's after low pooing (so the cones are off) and see if that makes a difference.

I felt like I was committing a crime when I put the condish in - lol!

Wish me luck!!
2c/3a/3b, Fine/med, Dense, high porous, & normal elas.

Lo-poo - Renpure Keratin, SMR, Giovanni SaS
clarifying - mix Johnson's H2T with low poo
Co-wash - Suave Nats. clar. or coco.
RO - GVPCB, Ion Eff. Care, TN.
LI - SMR, Cure Care, or RO
Seal - MO or Jojoba
DT - + honey, ACV, & EVOO to SM masque & GVPCB
PT - Gelatin!, CNPF
Styling - FSG, AIF, BRHG, LALS/PS, GF curl spray gel, SM Souffle/Smoothie, LOOB
Oils - MO!, EVOO, jojoba, GSO, SM Elixer, EVCO, VO5 Hairdressing
I like this thread. :-)

I'm about to go over to the dark side, too. I've been experimenting with mousse lately and I always see everyone raving about Suave's Captivating Curls mousse (contains dimethicone). So I bought a bottle and it's been sitting on my counter for a few days. It's strange - I want to try it, but the thought of using it makes me feel strangely disloyal, plus I have this irrational fear that I'm going to ruin 2.5 years of work being CG and getting my hair to where it is now. I know it's irrational, so I *am* going to use it later today, as soon as I rinse out my DT. Part of me wants it to work great, and part of me wants it to fail miserably. How can I be so conflicted over a stupid hair product? Lol!
Ondulee and Antonia like this.
Sulfate/non-water-soluble silicone free since 8/16/10
Northern VA
Med-coarse, normal porosity, low elasticity
Dye-free since 11/2010

Part of me wants it to work great, and part of me wants it to fail miserably. How can I be so conflicted over a stupid hair product? Lol!
Originally Posted by Rustina
I totally relate. I think I still have higher standards for non-CG products. As irrational as it is, I know that I'm more willing to tolerate mediocre results from CG products while I expect nothing short of consistent excellence from the non-CG stuff.

3a/f/iii
Modified CG since 11/5/11
CLEANSE: VO5 Vanilla Mint Tea Clarifying, DevaCare No-Poo, CHS Treatment Shampoo
RO: DevaCare One Condition, SS Caitlin's Conditioner, Mop Top Daily Conditioner
LI: SS Repairing Protein Treatment, CHS Silk Leave-In
STYLE: Re:Coil, Curl Keeper, Deva Ultra Defining Gel, Curls Rock Amplifier and Strong Hold Mousse, Sweet Curls Elixirs Okra Gel and Hard Hold Gel, SS Curl Enhancing Jelly and Firm Hold Gel
It took a long time for me to see the results of daily silicone use. I seen it in how I couldnt get enough moisture in to control frizz. Once you have healthy hair and know how to keep it healthy you should be fine playing with some cones for awhile. You will know by what issues pop up that you cant solve. I was trying protein to get my limp frizzy curls to curl up more. Turns out it was the cones not letting moisture in. Went back to CG for now but come summer I may need those cones again. I find if you have to use a sulfate shampoo the suave professionals almond and shea butter seems less stripping to me.
Well, I had good hair, I must admit. It definitely FEELS different, tho. Softer, maybe, but it really does feel coated with silicone/plastic. Not necessarily in a bad way, but I feel it. It feels... Slick.

I will say the ends look healthier and less damaged. They feel a little dry, but I'm likely over-analyzing, and they probably felt just a dry before the cone.

May wait until tomorrow to rewet/co-wash, we'll see. I'm very curious how it will behave with a co-washing. Then we'll see how it does after a low-poo in a couple days.

Then... I'll have to decide whether to reapply the cones or not! Lol! I'm experimenting with using them in my condish, and with using them as a LI for sealing.

I'm hoping now that I understand how they work and am aware of how much I'm using, how often, etc, I'll he able to keep the build-up and drying issues from happening, unlike in my pre-CG days. That seems logical and probable, right??
2c/3a/3b, Fine/med, Dense, high porous, & normal elas.

Lo-poo - Renpure Keratin, SMR, Giovanni SaS
clarifying - mix Johnson's H2T with low poo
Co-wash - Suave Nats. clar. or coco.
RO - GVPCB, Ion Eff. Care, TN.
LI - SMR, Cure Care, or RO
Seal - MO or Jojoba
DT - + honey, ACV, & EVOO to SM masque & GVPCB
PT - Gelatin!, CNPF
Styling - FSG, AIF, BRHG, LALS/PS, GF curl spray gel, SM Souffle/Smoothie, LOOB
Oils - MO!, EVOO, jojoba, GSO, SM Elixer, EVCO, VO5 Hairdressing
I like this thread. :-)

I'm about to go over to the dark side, too. I've been experimenting with mousse lately and I always see everyone raving about Suave's Captivating Curls mousse (contains dimethicone). So I bought a bottle and it's been sitting on my counter for a few days. It's strange - I want to try it, but the thought of using it makes me feel strangely disloyal, plus I have this irrational fear that I'm going to ruin 2.5 years of work being CG and getting my hair to where it is now. I know it's irrational, so I *am* going to use it later today, as soon as I rinse out my DT. Part of me wants it to work great, and part of me wants it to fail miserably. How can I be so conflicted over a stupid hair product? Lol!
Originally Posted by Rustina

I used to use that product but it left my hair feeling coated. With regards to the curl, I get the same results with my gel, and plopping. It is a good product though. When I used it, I was impressed with the curl definition.
JulesOnline

3A/B? A corkicelli mix of ringlets, spirals, helixes & s-shaped curls
Medium-fine texture, normal porosity, normal elasticity


Summer: pink; Winter: Blue; Year Round: green
Lo-Poo:Giovanni SAS sulfate free poo, L'Oreal Evercream CC
Co-wash: TNRV, VO5 Vanilla Mint Tea, TNNM
RO/LI:
YTC, Nexxus Hydra-light w/ CNPF GVPCB, Biolage CB, TNNM, Giovanni SAS
Styler: KCCC FSG, BRHG, LALSG



This has been an interesting post, as I only last week went to "the dark side" myself. I bought the Hello Hydration conditioner, it was on sale at Walmart so I just went for it. I have been using it as a leave in and WOW! With CG products I was able to get beautiful curls for a day, maybe two. With a squirt of this stuff, 5 day curls! Mind, by day 5 my hair ended up in a pony, but the curls were still defined. I think for the (almost) year that I was CG, the regimen served its purpose. My hair got healthier and grew a ton but now I need an easier routine. Great thread ladies
I like this thread. :-)

I'm about to go over to the dark side, too. I've been experimenting with mousse lately and I always see everyone raving about Suave's Captivating Curls mousse (contains dimethicone). So I bought a bottle and it's been sitting on my counter for a few days. It's strange - I want to try it, but the thought of using it makes me feel strangely disloyal, plus I have this irrational fear that I'm going to ruin 2.5 years of work being CG and getting my hair to where it is now. I know it's irrational, so I *am* going to use it later today, as soon as I rinse out my DT. Part of me wants it to work great, and part of me wants it to fail miserably. How can I be so conflicted over a stupid hair product? Lol!
Originally Posted by Rustina
How'd you end up liking the mousse? It's my absolute favorite product
http://www.dormroomcurly.blogspot.com


www.twitter.com/dormroomcurly

Fine/thin 2c/3a, Low-Medium Porosity, Dry!
How'd you end up liking the mousse? It's my absolute favorite product
Originally Posted by Laura Lee
Call the CG police - DIMETHICONE IS IN MY HAIR RIGHT NOW!! I rinsed out my DT, put in my LI, raked in the mousse, then scrunched in KCCC. The mousse felt very silky going in, much like the CG mousse I tried (Pantene Silky Moisture Whip). I plopped, pixie-diffused my waiver parts, and now it's clipped and air drying. My hair looks curlier, but that could also be attributed to the DT. I still have the normal amount of canopy frizz (not a ton, just a few hairs that insist on doing their own thing), so the real tests for me will be a) how does it look/feel when totally dry, b) how does it hold up through the day, and c) can I go two more days without washing and not have my hair feel or look gross. Stay tuned, I will update!
Laura Lee likes this.
Sulfate/non-water-soluble silicone free since 8/16/10
Northern VA
Med-coarse, normal porosity, low elasticity
Dye-free since 11/2010

For me, I actually avoid silicones because of my skin, not my hair. They break me out. (Moisturizers for acne-prone skin break me out since they're oil free and have silicones instead. Same with most cone hair products.)

Use the hair products you like. There are big benefits to cones. That's why they're in so many styling products.
Okay, I have second day hair with this silicone product. Not my usual must-pull-back-the-front-and-just-ignore-the-frizz second day hair, but actual curly hair that looks almost as good as first day hair and can be worn down. I am in heaven. I will continue to use this stuff, with a low poo on wash days, super-moisturizing RO, and continued weekly DT's and see how my hair does. Thanks Myrna, for starting this thread!!
curlypearl likes this.
Sulfate/non-water-soluble silicone free since 8/16/10
Northern VA
Med-coarse, normal porosity, low elasticity
Dye-free since 11/2010

So I had a coupon and ended up buying a new silicone conditioner (new Redken Curvaceous line- also bought the low-poo, which does appear to be CG). Only cone is a-cone because I'm willing to give that one another chance (I refuse to try dimethicone in a conditioner again because those were the two conditioners that convinced me I couldn't use cones in conditioners). Tried the combo yesterday (with some additional cones in the styling products because I also bought the new PM Curls LI treatment to use with their Twirl Around curl definer after hearing rave reviews about the combo from a woman I know from the do jang). My hair felt soft yesterday- definitely need to add gel next time because I lost some definition, but it was the nicest my hair has ever felt with the Twirl Around. I don't do second day hair, so I decided to give things a break with some CG products for today, but will definitely do more experimenting.

3a/f/iii
Modified CG since 11/5/11
CLEANSE: VO5 Vanilla Mint Tea Clarifying, DevaCare No-Poo, CHS Treatment Shampoo
RO: DevaCare One Condition, SS Caitlin's Conditioner, Mop Top Daily Conditioner
LI: SS Repairing Protein Treatment, CHS Silk Leave-In
STYLE: Re:Coil, Curl Keeper, Deva Ultra Defining Gel, Curls Rock Amplifier and Strong Hold Mousse, Sweet Curls Elixirs Okra Gel and Hard Hold Gel, SS Curl Enhancing Jelly and Firm Hold Gel
I think it's funny reading posts from people saying "I used this shampoo/conditioner/styling product for years and loved it but I can't use it anymore because it's not CG."

I think a lot of us drank the CG Kool-Aid and refuse to entertain any differing viewpoints. If you tried products with silicones and sulfates and found that they were terrible for your hair--and I'm impressed that anyone can pinpoint certain ingredients as troublemakers considering how variable curly hair can be based on the weather or whatever--then avoid those.

But I feel like Lorraine Massey's book, and this site, should come with a warning label: "Never underestimate the power of suggestion."
curlypearl, Antonia and Stephaniie like this.
*3B, medium/fine, normal porosity, normal elasticity, shoulder-length when dry.
One of the reasons I'm modified is so I can use the occasional cone.

Sent from my XT907 using CurlTalk App

Cosmetology Educator with sensitivities, eczema and Seborrheic Dermatitis.
Ingredients Maven
Products: Free and Clear sulfate free poo and condish, Theraneem Sulfate Free Shampoo/Condish, Unscented SSCEJ, Coconut oil, Camellia oil, Argan oil
Lady Karaan, High Priestess of Hayr Tretements in the Order of Curly Crusaders
Fotki updated 10/12/10 Password: wavy
(I refuse to try dimethicone in a conditioner again because those were the two conditioners that convinced me I couldn't use cones in conditioners).
Originally Posted by Corrina777
I've come to believe that it really is in the formulation of the product. Interestingly, this is what Marsha of Curl Junkie had said to me and others a couple of years ago when it seemed like everyone's hair "hated aloe" (It's probably even still in my siggie lol). She told me that it's rare for a person's hair to truly "hate" an ingredient and that the culprit is likely the formulation of the product itself.

Over the last few years, I've made several comments here that "silicones don't work for me". The silicones I had tried were dimethicone and amodimethicone in both stylers and conditioners. The conditioner that I frequently use now has both of those silicones in it, and they aren't at the bottom of the ingredient list. My hair loves this conditioner. It's a higher-end, not very well-known conditioner, and it's pretty concentrated so a little bit goes a long way for me. Based on my experiences, I can't say anymore that those silicones don't work for me.
2C/3A, fine, higher porosity.
I think it's funny reading posts from people saying "I used this shampoo/conditioner/styling product for years and loved it but I can't use it anymore because it's not CG."

I think a lot of us drank the CG Kool-Aid and refuse to entertain any differing viewpoints. If you tried products with silicones and sulfates and found that they were terrible for your hair--and I'm impressed that anyone can pinpoint certain ingredients as troublemakers considering how variable curly hair can be based on the weather or whatever--then avoid those.

But I feel like Lorraine Massey's book, and this site, should come with a warning label: "Never underestimate the power of suggestion."
Originally Posted by Calendula
Great post, I agree with all of this. I will say that I'm really glad I came here and learned about being CG - there's so much I didn't know about protein/moisture, styling techniques, cutting techniques, treatments, etc. and I think thats why my hair was so crummy before - I was piling on silicones without doing regular DT's to get moisture in, using terry cloth towels, getting traditional straight cuts, flat-ironing, and so on. But now that I have so much more information, I feel like I can now use products that have silicones without worrying about damage because I know how to counteract it.

I would not say that being full CG *doesn't* work for me, per se, but if I can get better results being modified CG, or not CG at all, I'm maybe not so afraid to try other stuff anymore.
Sulfate/non-water-soluble silicone free since 8/16/10
Northern VA
Med-coarse, normal porosity, low elasticity
Dye-free since 11/2010

+1 Rustina. I've been "CG" for 18 months. My naked hair now looks very similar to how it did 18 months ago. The single biggest difference maker for me has been styling technique. I will say my hair hasn't liked styling products with dimethicone, but I happily use curls rock amplifier with cyclomethicone. I still shampoo every time I wash, but I only use SLS once a week or less depending on how my hair feels. I flat iton very rarely, as opposed to once a week previously.

I don't feel guilty about it. I want to enjoy my hair & minimize stress. I don't think it was that damaged to begin with, just needed some TLC & better technique and THAT'S what CG has taught me
fine, thin, normal/(low?) porosity. Mod-CG. Usually I can't co-wash more than 1x a week, & sometimes I have to use T-Gel in rotation due to scalp issues.

Co-wash: VO5 Volumizing
Poo: Giovanni 50:50
RO:TN, Nexxus Youth Renewal, Alba Coconut
LI: KCKT
PT: gelatin PT, ION EC
Stylers: Giovanni mousse, TIGI Curls Rock amplifier (a-cone), Curls Rock Strong Hold Mousse
Gels: SCC spray gel

I'm impressed that anyone can pinpoint certain ingredients as troublemakers considering how variable curly hair can be based on the weather or whatever-
"
Originally Posted by Calendula
I think becoming more aware of product ingredients and how my hair reacts to them has been key for my natural journey. I know in 4a we talk to newbies a lot about keeping journals to track the ingredients of products that do and don't work for you to see what the commonalities are. I didn't even attempt CG until I was two years natural. I loved how easy silicones make detangling. But I always had dryness problems and a coated feeling that never seemed to go away until I shampooed. Since then I have gone back to the dark side many times thinking maybe my hair can handle it now. And every time my hair has made me pay for it. Dimethicone is not my friend whether it's the first ingredient or the last. Thank God for clarifying shampoos.

That said, formulation does matter. my hair likes aloe mixed with other ingredients but not alone. I think we all have to experiment and learn to listen to our hair and go with that.

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