Tired of it...the cone controversy.

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Ha! Shows you how much I know!!

My hair would not survive without a comb. Seriously, there is NO WAY. It would be a matted frizz ball. Fingers alone do not cut it with my mop!!
2c/3a/3b, Fine/med, Dense, high porous, & normal elas.

Lo-poo - Renpure Keratin, SMR, Giovanni SaS
clarifying - mix Johnson's H2T with low poo
Co-wash - Suave Nats. clar. or coco.
RO - GVPCB, Ion Eff. Care, TN.
LI - SMR, Cure Care, or RO
Seal - MO or Jojoba
DT - + honey, ACV, & EVOO to SM masque & GVPCB
PT - Gelatin!, CNPF
Styling - FSG, AIF, BRHG, LALS/PS, GF curl spray gel, SM Souffle/Smoothie, LOOB
Oils - MO!, EVOO, jojoba, GSO, SM Elixer, EVCO, VO5 Hairdressing
Ha! Shows you how much I know!!

My hair would not survive without a comb. Seriously, there is NO WAY. It would be a matted frizz ball. Fingers alone do not cut it with my mop!!
Originally Posted by Jas76
I can do fingers definitely but I just love my wide tooth comb. She's so good to me. I do run her through very, very, very gently though. I used to just tear her right in there. Now I know better.

Hey does using a low poo by Shea Moisture make me mod-CG? I think I've heard (read. . . whatever) women who low poo say that they consider themselves mod-CG but then there's mention of sulfate free cleansers in the CG Handbook if I remember correctly. And after all, there's that devacurl low-poo which is more intense on the cleansing scale than my Shea Moisture poo.
3A - C, HP, ME, HD. (Coarse, High Porosity, Medium Elasticity, High Density.)

CG since Nov. 2012

Poos: SM Moisture Retention + Yucca Baobab, TJ's Tea Tree Tingle
Condish: TJ 'sTea Tree Tingle*, SM Moisture Retention* + Curl & Shine + Yucca Baobab, Yes to Blueberries
Stylers: KCKT*, SM Curl Enhancing Smoothie* + Curl & Style Milk*, KCCC*, FSG*, CJ Pattern Pusha, Curl Keeper
Sealers: Jojoba* or Grapeseed* oil

* = HG

Idk, actually. I always THOUGHT using poo of any kind made you mod, but someone else on here says it does not, so idk?
I always considered myself mod bc I use low poo, I use mineral oil, and once in a great while I might go half and half sulphate and low poo just to clarify. Now adding in a-cone I'm sure secures me into that category! Tho Deva products had a-cone for a while, I think??

Not sure if I'll stick with this cone, but we'll see. I can say that I won't panic if I come into contact with a cone ever. It can just be washed out - no biggie!
2c/3a/3b, Fine/med, Dense, high porous, & normal elas.

Lo-poo - Renpure Keratin, SMR, Giovanni SaS
clarifying - mix Johnson's H2T with low poo
Co-wash - Suave Nats. clar. or coco.
RO - GVPCB, Ion Eff. Care, TN.
LI - SMR, Cure Care, or RO
Seal - MO or Jojoba
DT - + honey, ACV, & EVOO to SM masque & GVPCB
PT - Gelatin!, CNPF
Styling - FSG, AIF, BRHG, LALS/PS, GF curl spray gel, SM Souffle/Smoothie, LOOB
Oils - MO!, EVOO, jojoba, GSO, SM Elixer, EVCO, VO5 Hairdressing
In the CG book, the stress is more on not using sulfates. Then, because cones can build up without the use of sulfates, you also need to cut out cones. Also, I don't feel like the people on this forum are so controversial about cones? Like, a ton of us use them. That said, my favorite products are cone free and I'm pretty much doing the CG method only I use a low-poo each time a shower (in her book LM says wavies might need to do this).
Fine Texture, Normal Porosity, Normal Elasticity. Dyed to brown a few months ago.
Lowpoo:
Trader Joe's TTT Shampoo
Rinse Out:
Yes to Carrots, AOHR, Aubrey Organics Rosemary Peppermint
LI: Yes to Carrots
Stylers: Shea Moisture Curl Enhancing Smoothie, LA Looks Sports, Suave Professionals Captivating Curls Whipped Mousse
Amen to that, Jas. It definitely isn't that big a deal. Poo it out, deep treat and then you're back to normal. And then I read about your adventures and leer like a bloody tourist!

Rainboe, thanks for clarifying. I low poo once a week and water cleanse my scalp the rest. But that's only because I was scared off co-washing thanks to my As I Am Coconut Cowash that I love so dearly, but my scalp just plain didn't agree with. However I just started co-washing again with a different conditioner that doesn't contain a certain preservative the AIA contained and I think I can handle that one. Hooray for experiments! With or without cones.
3A - C, HP, ME, HD. (Coarse, High Porosity, Medium Elasticity, High Density.)

CG since Nov. 2012

Poos: SM Moisture Retention + Yucca Baobab, TJ's Tea Tree Tingle
Condish: TJ 'sTea Tree Tingle*, SM Moisture Retention* + Curl & Shine + Yucca Baobab, Yes to Blueberries
Stylers: KCKT*, SM Curl Enhancing Smoothie* + Curl & Style Milk*, KCCC*, FSG*, CJ Pattern Pusha, Curl Keeper
Sealers: Jojoba* or Grapeseed* oil

* = HG

Hi, All: I started this thread, but the site has not been sending me updates, and I just finished all 4 pages. Here is my update and conclusions. For the past week I have been using a Dove conditioner with dimethicone. with my SM shampoos ; CK, and over that, the 3 in ! Mousse, which has dimethiconol also. (Drum roll please, and blue lights....) my hair is fine. It seems to hold up better in the cold here. Here are my conclusions: 1. if one does not shampoo much and loads up on silicones, yes, that is probably a problems. But, if 2. one low poos daily, like I do, and the cones are a. far down the list of ingredients 2. I dont load up on them, then 3. I really doubt those bad silicones are laying on my hair just waiting to smother it. I think, again, it is a question of degree. I think many of us, myself included, initially, bought the CG thing totally, and the products. After one week of the using only the Deva line, I disliked the feel of my hair, it did not feel clean, and my scalp itched. It is really clear to me that a mild, non sulfate shampoo is important; it is less clear to me that cones are to be avoided at all costs. Maybe tomorrow I will try a different routine just for contrast; but it is also nice to know that I dont have to spend $26. on the Deva Foam to get good results. I suspect that in the warm weather, the routine will change again. BTW, I dont have the new SM products in my area, and would love to know how the mousse is!
curlypearl and dusalocks like this.
Devacurl gel makes my hair look nice and I have tighter curls but it also makes my hair feel very stiff, producty and dry. . . I think a lot of people who read the CG Handbook get excited and automatically want to try deva. Doesn't mean it's gonna work though. Well that is unfair. It works, it just doesn't work for me as well as other things. Live and let curl. I'm just happy you're happy with your hair, Myrna. And it's great you started a thread about the subject. I'm sure it's enlightened a lot of people and liberated them. I don't know if you've noticed but a lot of us curlies can be quite OCD about our hair regimens. . .
curlypearl likes this.
3A - C, HP, ME, HD. (Coarse, High Porosity, Medium Elasticity, High Density.)

CG since Nov. 2012

Poos: SM Moisture Retention + Yucca Baobab, TJ's Tea Tree Tingle
Condish: TJ 'sTea Tree Tingle*, SM Moisture Retention* + Curl & Shine + Yucca Baobab, Yes to Blueberries
Stylers: KCKT*, SM Curl Enhancing Smoothie* + Curl & Style Milk*, KCCC*, FSG*, CJ Pattern Pusha, Curl Keeper
Sealers: Jojoba* or Grapeseed* oil

* = HG

P.S. I want that mousse to come to town, too. Planning on purchasing it for my mother who is a wavie.
3A - C, HP, ME, HD. (Coarse, High Porosity, Medium Elasticity, High Density.)

CG since Nov. 2012

Poos: SM Moisture Retention + Yucca Baobab, TJ's Tea Tree Tingle
Condish: TJ 'sTea Tree Tingle*, SM Moisture Retention* + Curl & Shine + Yucca Baobab, Yes to Blueberries
Stylers: KCKT*, SM Curl Enhancing Smoothie* + Curl & Style Milk*, KCCC*, FSG*, CJ Pattern Pusha, Curl Keeper
Sealers: Jojoba* or Grapeseed* oil

* = HG

Hi, Myrna! Glad it's still working for you!

Yes, cones like a-cone don't build up. One of the c-cones evaporates. The further down in the ingredients list the cones the better. If the are one of the last 3 they are not going to build up (that was something the deva stylist told me).

If you low poo fairly regularly with coco betaine (or even glucocides, in some cases) you'll most likely be fine.

I'm tempted to try a DT pre-poo with my Dove condish I use to love, now!
2c/3a/3b, Fine/med, Dense, high porous, & normal elas.

Lo-poo - Renpure Keratin, SMR, Giovanni SaS
clarifying - mix Johnson's H2T with low poo
Co-wash - Suave Nats. clar. or coco.
RO - GVPCB, Ion Eff. Care, TN.
LI - SMR, Cure Care, or RO
Seal - MO or Jojoba
DT - + honey, ACV, & EVOO to SM masque & GVPCB
PT - Gelatin!, CNPF
Styling - FSG, AIF, BRHG, LALS/PS, GF curl spray gel, SM Souffle/Smoothie, LOOB
Oils - MO!, EVOO, jojoba, GSO, SM Elixer, EVCO, VO5 Hairdressing
OCD? curlies, myself included, OCD? you mean that large product graveyard means I am OCD? the fact that I keep trying different products to get better (maybe) results from one day to the next? The fact that last summer I went through three stylists? Me, OCD about my hair?

Thanks for the thanks for starting this thread. What really struck me was that all my life I have resisted the tendencies to accept "gurus"; or "the Perfect Solution"; and yet, here I was , accepting things that maybe I should not have been. I think the jury is still out, but as I said in an earlier post to Jas, I refuse to accept that cones have the ability to stick to the hair with such tenacity that it practically takes turpentine to remove them. I have yet to hear any one say they dont wash out. They may not wash out if you you have weeks product on your hair, and then you do a low poo or a co wash, duh, that is not going to remove ANY product build up.
Right, Myrna! Layer upon layer (as I used to do!!) is going to cause anyone trouble! Low pooing regularly and using cones in moderation should be more than fine for most. Some may need to clarify once in a while - but none of that is any different from what I have been doing for the past 2 years anyhow!
2c/3a/3b, Fine/med, Dense, high porous, & normal elas.

Lo-poo - Renpure Keratin, SMR, Giovanni SaS
clarifying - mix Johnson's H2T with low poo
Co-wash - Suave Nats. clar. or coco.
RO - GVPCB, Ion Eff. Care, TN.
LI - SMR, Cure Care, or RO
Seal - MO or Jojoba
DT - + honey, ACV, & EVOO to SM masque & GVPCB
PT - Gelatin!, CNPF
Styling - FSG, AIF, BRHG, LALS/PS, GF curl spray gel, SM Souffle/Smoothie, LOOB
Oils - MO!, EVOO, jojoba, GSO, SM Elixer, EVCO, VO5 Hairdressing
Hi, All: I started this thread, but the site has not been sending me updates, and I just finished all 4 pages. Here is my update and conclusions. For the past week I have been using a Dove conditioner with dimethicone. with my SM shampoos ; CK, and over that, the 3 in ! Mousse, which has dimethiconol also. (Drum roll please, and blue lights....) my hair is fine. It seems to hold up better in the cold here. Here are my conclusions: 1. if one does not shampoo much and loads up on silicones, yes, that is probably a problems. But, if 2. one low poos daily, like I do, and the cones are a. far down the list of ingredients 2. I dont load up on them, then 3. I really doubt those bad silicones are laying on my hair just waiting to smother it. I think, again, it is a question of degree. I think many of us, myself included, initially, bought the CG thing totally, and the products. After one week of the using only the Deva line, I disliked the feel of my hair, it did not feel clean, and my scalp itched. It is really clear to me that a mild, non sulfate shampoo is important; it is less clear to me that cones are to be avoided at all costs. Maybe tomorrow I will try a different routine just for contrast; but it is also nice to know that I dont have to spend $26. on the Deva Foam to get good results. I suspect that in the warm weather, the routine will change again. BTW, I dont have the new SM products in my area, and would love to know how the mousse is!
Originally Posted by Myrna
Good post. Honestly, I've pretty much stopped worrying about cones altogether. I don't low-poo daily, and I alternate between GVP Conditioning Balm (no cones) and Davines Love Smoothing (LOVE this condish!) which has 2 cones --neither of which are far down the ingredient list. If cones really aren't objectively harmful for hair (someone's hair not liking cones is a different story), and I don't believe they are, then it shouldn't matter how far down the ingredient list they are.

Buildup is a different story, but I've gotten plenty of buildup from "CG" conditioners and stylers when I was co-washing, so what's the difference between silicone buildup and other types of buildup? You still have to get the buildup out of your hair with a shampoo. I haven't gotten any buildup since introducing the Davines into my routine, and I only use a low-poo twice a week. I do clarify every 6-8 weeks, but that's because I henna every 6-8 weeks and I like to make sure nothing interferes with the color deposit.
curlypearl and Calendula like this.
2C/3A, fine, higher porosity.
I like this thread!

My hair loves dimethicone more than the a-cones, -axane, or PEG-.

I'm finally starting to get rid of my shampoo (had the same 16 oz bottle for 5 years) because I've discovered that I can clarify my hair of any type of build-up by using brown sugar and baking soda. The build-up is removed in one application. Plus the granules of the brown sugar feel great on the scalp.

I use whatever method works for me; but I don't mind trying different ones. In fact, modifying those methods to my hair needs can actually improve it. This is why I'm a ModCG.
Mod CG-Naturally Highly Porous and Dry
SUMMER REGIMEN-This list is not exhaustive...
Pre-treat:Shima oil
Shampoo:
Schwarzkopf Gliss Kur Ultimate Oil Elixir
Cowash:HE The Sleeker The Butter
PT: Gold Medal's Herbal Tame
DT/LI/Detangler/
: various
Stylers: Lush Zeste Hair Gel

*experimenting and loving it!


Wait wait... Brown sugar and baking soda?? Tell me more...
2c/3a/3b, Fine/med, Dense, high porous, & normal elas.

Lo-poo - Renpure Keratin, SMR, Giovanni SaS
clarifying - mix Johnson's H2T with low poo
Co-wash - Suave Nats. clar. or coco.
RO - GVPCB, Ion Eff. Care, TN.
LI - SMR, Cure Care, or RO
Seal - MO or Jojoba
DT - + honey, ACV, & EVOO to SM masque & GVPCB
PT - Gelatin!, CNPF
Styling - FSG, AIF, BRHG, LALS/PS, GF curl spray gel, SM Souffle/Smoothie, LOOB
Oils - MO!, EVOO, jojoba, GSO, SM Elixer, EVCO, VO5 Hairdressing
So i really love this thread. It is something that I have been dealing with for a while now. This February marks 1 year of CG for me. But I am convinced that it is not CG which makes my hair look better. Before CG, I had never used mousse or gel or cream in my hair. I basically washed my hair at night and woke up to loose undefined wavy/curly hair. It didn't look bad, but there was little to no definition. After going to ulta in search of something to define my curls, I bought the deva foam and spray gel. Because of that, I started researching and came across this site and the CG handbook.

I immediately had amazing results, which is awesome. However, because I never straightened my hair or used a blow dryer, my hair was already healthy. So all CG did for me was basically make me use product and learn techniques. Because I use a low poo, these past few months I have been using occasional silicones with absolutely no difference in my hair. My hair is pretty much agreeable to any and every product so long as I apply it correctly.

Personally, I do not like to use silicones because I prefer more natural products; however, it is not because they cause problems in my hair. I know that all our hair is different and silicones may stink for some, but I really think that the techniques we use in our hair make a huge difference. For me, technique matters more than whether or not I use silicones.
Calendula and dusalocks like this.
3a/3b, Fine Hair, Low porosity, Medium Density
Poo- CHS Treatment Shampoo
Low-poo- Devacurl Low Poo
RO- Devacurl One Condition
Leave-In- KCKT/Curl Junkie Smoothing Lotion
Interesting topic.

I never believed (and never been told) that silicones in itself are bad... the only problem is the washing out. Silicones in itself are good I think, they hold moisture and provide a lot of slip. They also protect from heat.

Even if you can use coco betaine to wash them out, I still think co-washing is better than low-pooing... but then again, that depends on the person. My hair is just never greasy... sometimes I do low-poo though, when I've used a lot of oils and right now I'm temporarily living in a hard water area so I need to get rid of the build up every now and then.

I'm not going to use silicones, because I don't want to be dependent of low-pooing. I'm alright with low-pooing every now and then, But I still believe co-washing is better.

But of course, all hair is different, and everyone should do what they found out to be best for their hair
SpiralSpunk likes this.

At hip length, going for mid-thigh!
3A/2C M iii med porosity, high elasticity

HGs:
Clarify: Nivea IR
Lo-poo: Nature's Gate CR
CW: Elvive Volume Collagen
RO: TBS Rainforest Moisture, etc

LI: Elvive volume collagen, KCKT
Seal: Grapeseed oil
Gel: Studioline

PT: EO Keratin co
DT: RO+oils
Hairgrowth stim.: JBCO+EVCO


www.iherb.com 5-10$ discount code:
VHT541 Many natural hair products!
Idk... I've been using cones this week to experiment, and I've found my hair retaining less moisture. Actually, I don't have enough info to truly claim that, but it seems to be the case. It may or may not be because of the cone, but it's clear the cone is not helping moisture retention.

Could be the protein balance is off, could be I didn't seal with enough oil, might be that the cone is making my sealer less effective, or maybe I just didn't get enough moisture into my hair in the first place this last time. Idk.

Low poo isn't "less good" for hair, though that may be the case for some individuals. Others may find low pooing to be better than co-washing, especially if they have an oily scalp, or have try to go several days between washing or rewetting.

There are no black and white answers, no absolute rights or wrongs or better or worses, really. There are definite guidelines, and facts that are important to understand (how silicones and sulfates work, protein and moisture balance, etc etc.). One must find what works best for their hair type/properties, lifestyle, and circumstances. There are so many variables, but the guidelines are pretty much set - it's just about how they apply to the individual.
2c/3a/3b, Fine/med, Dense, high porous, & normal elas.

Lo-poo - Renpure Keratin, SMR, Giovanni SaS
clarifying - mix Johnson's H2T with low poo
Co-wash - Suave Nats. clar. or coco.
RO - GVPCB, Ion Eff. Care, TN.
LI - SMR, Cure Care, or RO
Seal - MO or Jojoba
DT - + honey, ACV, & EVOO to SM masque & GVPCB
PT - Gelatin!, CNPF
Styling - FSG, AIF, BRHG, LALS/PS, GF curl spray gel, SM Souffle/Smoothie, LOOB
Oils - MO!, EVOO, jojoba, GSO, SM Elixer, EVCO, VO5 Hairdressing
Wait wait... Brown sugar and baking soda?? Tell me more...
Originally Posted by Jas76
LOL! I discovered this when I ran out of shampoo and I knew that cowashing or low-pooing wouldn't work. The brown sugar/baking soda actually left my hair feeling the same as using a clarifying shampoo or a sulfate shampoo. Afterward, my styling products began to work again (or work better).

Maybe it's because my hair is highly porous and very dry...?...
Mod CG-Naturally Highly Porous and Dry
SUMMER REGIMEN-This list is not exhaustive...
Pre-treat:Shima oil
Shampoo:
Schwarzkopf Gliss Kur Ultimate Oil Elixir
Cowash:HE The Sleeker The Butter
PT: Gold Medal's Herbal Tame
DT/LI/Detangler/
: various
Stylers: Lush Zeste Hair Gel

*experimenting and loving it!


I had heard of the brown sugar scrub, but not of it removing cones. Or actually, that's probably more likely to be the BS, I'd guess. Did you follow up with some ACV? It's my understanding that you are supposed to to balance the ph. ?

My hair is highly porous, too. Will put this on the list to try the next time I need to clarify!
2c/3a/3b, Fine/med, Dense, high porous, & normal elas.

Lo-poo - Renpure Keratin, SMR, Giovanni SaS
clarifying - mix Johnson's H2T with low poo
Co-wash - Suave Nats. clar. or coco.
RO - GVPCB, Ion Eff. Care, TN.
LI - SMR, Cure Care, or RO
Seal - MO or Jojoba
DT - + honey, ACV, & EVOO to SM masque & GVPCB
PT - Gelatin!, CNPF
Styling - FSG, AIF, BRHG, LALS/PS, GF curl spray gel, SM Souffle/Smoothie, LOOB
Oils - MO!, EVOO, jojoba, GSO, SM Elixer, EVCO, VO5 Hairdressing
My hair doesn't like things that lather, so I don't use shampoos at all. Even the sulfate free ones are too stripping for my hair and I get crazy tangles. So because I only use cleansing conditioners to clean my hair I don't use non water soluble cones. I think it all just comes down to personal preference.

I love my Paul Mitchell the conditioner and it has cones, but I know that they will rinse out with just water so I don't worry about it.

My hair is happy and soft which makes me happy.
Holy Grails:
Cowash: DevaCurl No Poo or As I Am Coconut Wash
Conditioner: Giovanni Tea Tree Tingle
Leave-in: Paul Mitchell the Conditioner
Styling Products: EcoStyler Olive Oil Gel
Oils: Coconut oil. Carol's Daughter Hair Balm.
Deep Conditioner: Shea Moisture African Black Soap Purification Masque (also a great detangler and cleanser)

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