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Old 04-09-2013, 07:20 PM   #1
 
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Default What ingredients make a conditioner cleanse?

Okay, I can't say I've looked for this specifically, but I have done a lot of reading. I know that BTMS, coco betaine and disodium EDTA will all act as cleansers. However recently I have seen posts from two people who say they use Natures Gate conditioners to cowash, they don't contain any cleaning agent I'm aware of. I also bought the biotin conditioner by Mill Creek Botanicals, it bubbles a bit in my hair but also doesn't include an obvious cleanser. What other ingredients, in these or other CO's, give them the ability to cleanse?

NG Herbal:
Water, Quaternium-87 (Vegetable Derived), Cetearyl Alcohol (Vegetable Derived), Glycerin (Vegetable Derived), Polysorbate 60, Panthenol, Hydrolyzed Soy Protein, Hydrolyzed Vegetable Protein, Simmondsia Chinensis (Jojoba) Seed Oil, Borago (Borage) Officinalis Seed Oil, Tocopherol (Vitamin E), Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C), Chamomilla Recutita (Matricaria) Extract, Urtica Dioica (Nettle) Extract, Prunus Serotina (Wild Cherry) Bark Extract, Lavandula Angustifolia (Lavender) Extract, Arctium Lappa (Burdock) Root Extract, Yucca Schidigera Root Extract, Lilium Candidum (Lily) Bulb Extract, Nelumbo Nucifera (Sacred Lotus) Flower Extract, Quercus Alba (Oak Bark) Bark Extract, Ascorbyl Palmitate, Phenoxyethanol, Glyceryl Undecylenate (Vegetable Derived), Citric Acid (Vegetable Derived), Fragrance*, Caramel. *Phthalate free

MCB Biotin:
Deionized water, biotin, panthenol (provitamin B5), hydrolyzed keratin, hydrolyzed collagen, cetyl alcohol, stearyl alcohol, dicetyldimonium chloride, oleamidopropyl dimethylamine, cetearyl alcohol, ceteareth-20, hydrolyzed glycosaminoglycans, retinyl palmitate (vitamin A), citric acid, corn oil, sodium chloride, quaternium-15, peppermint oil, *organic aloe vera gel, organic essential oil, potassium sorbate, sodium benzoate, botanical fragrance.

Thanks
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2A / F / MD / LP / ?E / BSL --- CG since Dec. 2012

This is what I'm happiest with right now.
Co-wash: CJ DailyFix
Lo-poo: DermOrganic low-poo
RO: SS Caitlin's co
Leave-in: SheScentIt Okra Repair condish
PT: SS Caitlin's + SS PT
Stylers: Volumax Mega Gel, Max Green Styling Gel, DermOrganics Spray Gel
Techniques: Plopping & Pixie Diffusing.
glycerin, honey, oils & butters Protein!

Last edited by Lynaea; 04-09-2013 at 07:34 PM.
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Old 04-09-2013, 07:47 PM   #2
 
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If the conditioner is not labeled as "cleansing," it usually doesn't have a cleansing agent (surfactant, chelating agent, etc.)

Cowashing is really done by the friction of your finger tips on your scalp. It's not the ingredients.
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modified CG, since April '07
CG since 3/11/08

SE PA

HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic; Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me

Last edited by kathymack; 06-21-2013 at 05:34 AM.
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Old 04-09-2013, 07:50 PM   #3
 
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Aha! So in theory any conditioner could be used as long as it works for my hair and I scrub-a-dub-dub.

Thanks Kathy!
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2A / F / MD / LP / ?E / BSL --- CG since Dec. 2012

This is what I'm happiest with right now.
Co-wash: CJ DailyFix
Lo-poo: DermOrganic low-poo
RO: SS Caitlin's co
Leave-in: SheScentIt Okra Repair condish
PT: SS Caitlin's + SS PT
Stylers: Volumax Mega Gel, Max Green Styling Gel, DermOrganics Spray Gel
Techniques: Plopping & Pixie Diffusing.
glycerin, honey, oils & butters Protein!
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Old 04-09-2013, 08:13 PM   #4
 
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I looked these up on the Skin Deep Database. I've copy /pasted the listed functions for anything that had any cleansing attributes (surfactant, or foam boosting). Kinda interesting. That said, Kathymack is absolutely correct that it's more the scrubbing action of fingertips than it is the conditioner that cleans the scalp. I believe it was Tiffany over on Live Curly Live Free that said she's had even sulfate shampoo users come into her shop with scalp issues because they aren't cleansing properly.

NG Herbal:
Quaternium-87 = Function(s): Hair Conditioning Agent; Surfactant - Cleansing Agent

Cetearyl Alcohol = Function(s): Emulsion Stabilizer; Opacifying Agent; Surfactant - Foam Booster; Viscosity Increasing Agent - Aqueous; Viscosity Increasing Agent - Nonaqueous; EMOLLIENT; EMULSIFYING; EMULSION STABILISING; FOAM BOOSTING; VISCOSITY CONTROLLING

Polysorbate 60 = Function(s): Fragrance Ingredient; Surfactant - Emulsifying Agent; Surfactant - Solubilizing Agent

Glyceryl Undecylenate = Function(s): Skin-conditioning Agent - Emollient; Surfactant - Emulsifying Agent; SKIN CONDITIONING

MCB Biotin:
cetyl alcohol = Function(s): Emulsion Stabilizer; Fragrance Ingredient; Opacifying Agent; Surfactant - Emulsifying Agent;Surfactant - Foam Booster; Viscosity Increasing Agent - Aqueous; Viscosity Increasing Agent -Nonaqueous; EMOLLIENT; EMULSION STABILISING; FOAM BOOSTING; MASKING; VISCOSITY CONTROLLING

stearyl alcohol = Function(s): Emulsion Stabilizer; Fragrance Ingredient; Surfactant - Emulsifying Agent; Surfactant - Foam Booster; Viscosity Increasing Agent - Aqueous; Viscosity Increasing Agent - Nonaqueous; EMOLLIENT; EMULSION STABILISING; FOAM BOOSTING; MASKING; OPACIFYING; REFATTING; VISCOSITY CONTROLLING

dicetyldimonium chloride = Function(s): Antistatic Agent; Hair Conditioning Agent; EMULSIFYING; SURFACTANT

Cetearyl Alcohol = Function(s): Emulsion Stabilizer; Opacifying Agent; Surfactant - Foam Booster; Viscosity Increasing Agent - Aqueous; Viscosity Increasing Agent - Nonaqueous; EMOLLIENT; EMULSIFYING; EMULSION STABILISING; FOAM BOOSTING; VISCOSITY CONTROLLING

ceteareth-20 = Function(s): Surfactant - Cleansing Agent; Surfactant - Solubilizing Agent

corn oil = Function(s): Fragrance Ingredient; Hair Conditioning Agent; Skin-Conditioning Agent - Occlusive;Surfactant - Emulsifying Agent; ANTISTATIC; EMOLLIENT; MASKING; SKIN CONDITIONING; SOLVENT
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CG since 11/2011
2c /3a F /Mii, low porosity

Winter Products/Routine:
Clarifying: ACV rinses, Suave Professional Men Deep Clean Peppermint
Low Poo: Renpure Luxurious Argan Oil
Co-washes: VO5 Kiwi Lime Squeeze or Strawberries & Cream, Cure Care
RO: VO5 KLS or S&C or Shea Cashmere, Cure Care
LI (if needed): VO5 S&C or Renpure Luxurious Argan Oil (old formula)
Styler: HETT
PT: IAGirl's (every 2 weeks or as needed)
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Old 04-11-2013, 04:43 AM   #5
 
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That is interesting. I have tried looking up ingredients, my best resource has been the Paulaschoice site but that's cosmetic specific and I'm never sure how it translates to hair products. Googling mostly seemed to yield all the ways every single ingredient might kill you

Thanks for the info Geek_chick
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2A / F / MD / LP / ?E / BSL --- CG since Dec. 2012

This is what I'm happiest with right now.
Co-wash: CJ DailyFix
Lo-poo: DermOrganic low-poo
RO: SS Caitlin's co
Leave-in: SheScentIt Okra Repair condish
PT: SS Caitlin's + SS PT
Stylers: Volumax Mega Gel, Max Green Styling Gel, DermOrganics Spray Gel
Techniques: Plopping & Pixie Diffusing.
glycerin, honey, oils & butters Protein!
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Old 04-12-2013, 01:33 AM   #6
 
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We know that oil attracts oil, so any product that mixes well with oil, inglobalizing it, would help clean hair of excess oils, odors and dirt upon scrubbing and rinsing well. I would guess that is what emulsifiers do and addition of oil in the conditioner helps. It won't remove all the oil so hair won't be stripped. Co-washing works like cleansing milks do for your face.
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Last edited by ZigaZaga; 04-12-2013 at 01:35 AM.
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Old 06-20-2013, 08:33 PM   #7
 
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[QUOTE

MCB Biotin:
Deionized water, biotin, panthenol (provitamin B5), hydrolyzed keratin, hydrolyzed collagen, cetyl alcohol, stearyl alcohol, dicetyldimonium chloride, oleamidopropyl dimethylamine, cetearyl alcohol, ceteareth-20, hydrolyzed glycosaminoglycans, retinyl palmitate (vitamin A), citric acid, corn oil, sodium chloride, quaternium-15, peppermint oil, *organic aloe vera gel, organic essential oil, potassium sorbate, sodium benzoate, botanical fragrance.

[/QUOTE]

Lynaea what do you think about this conditioner? Our properties are similar and I wanted to order it but wanted to see what you thought. Thank you!
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Fine texture
Low/ Med porosity
Med density

Wash: SM MR, GTTT
RO: SM MR, GTTT
LI: SM CSM or SM MR
Styling:AVG, KCCC, Volumax MEGA (HG), Joico Curl Definer
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Old 06-20-2013, 08:58 PM   #8
 
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My hair and scalp love cowashing. Pre-CG I had dandruff issues and washed 3x per week. I scrubbed super well each time I washed and used head n shoulders once in a while. Immediately after going Cg my dandruff resolved. I do low poo about once per week but only after a DT. When I cowash I just make sure to do a good scalp massage and I don't really scrub my hair. I just make sure I rake the condish thru my hair really well and that takes care of any problems. If you are truly CG there really isn't much you have to worry about in terms of dirt unless you work in a dust bowl.
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Type 2B - 3A
Med-High Porosity (partial highlights), medium & corse mixed textures

CG Day 1: May 16, 2013

Poo: CJ Daily Fix Cleansing Condish (as needed)
CO: Tresemme Naturals Vibrantly Smooth Condish
RO&LI: CJ Beauticurls Argan & Olive Oil Daily Hair Condish
Styling: CJ Pattern Pusha or FSG, TRESemme Flawless Curls - Bouncy Curls Defining Gel, Giovanni LANaturals HardHold Gel (canopy only)
DT: CJ Curl Rehab, Coconut oil, SS Repairing PT

Techniques: Scrunch-n-pump, tshirt wrap
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Old 06-21-2013, 03:41 AM   #9
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by New_to_Curlz View Post
MCB Biotin:
Deionized water, biotin, panthenol (provitamin B5), hydrolyzed keratin, hydrolyzed collagen, cetyl alcohol, stearyl alcohol, dicetyldimonium chloride, oleamidopropyl dimethylamine, cetearyl alcohol, ceteareth-20, hydrolyzed glycosaminoglycans, retinyl palmitate (vitamin A), citric acid, corn oil, sodium chloride, quaternium-15, peppermint oil, *organic aloe vera gel, organic essential oil, potassium sorbate, sodium benzoate, botanical fragrance.

Lynaea what do you think about this conditioner? Our properties are similar and I wanted to order it but wanted to see what you thought. Thank you!
The Ingredients look good but it mostly just sits in my shower. The peppermint oil makes me nervous after previous skin issues so I only tried it as a cowash 1-2 times. I've used it as a LI but it gets very sticky / producty if I use too much. I don't recall if I've tried it as a RO, I guess I should do that
__________________
2A / F / MD / LP / ?E / BSL --- CG since Dec. 2012

This is what I'm happiest with right now.
Co-wash: CJ DailyFix
Lo-poo: DermOrganic low-poo
RO: SS Caitlin's co
Leave-in: SheScentIt Okra Repair condish
PT: SS Caitlin's + SS PT
Stylers: Volumax Mega Gel, Max Green Styling Gel, DermOrganics Spray Gel
Techniques: Plopping & Pixie Diffusing.
glycerin, honey, oils & butters Protein!
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Old 06-21-2013, 07:17 AM   #10
 
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Another good link for looking up ingredients:

Ingredients Commonly Found in Hair Care Products
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Salt & pepper wavy mix 2B/2C
Low to normal porosity, coarse, kinky, normal elasticity
Current favorites:
Low poo: Yes To Cukes Color Protection (the no sulfate one)
Conditioners: Renpure MPHIP, CJ Smoothing Lotion, AB LI, CJ Curl Rehab, CJ Argan/Olive, Darcy's Pumpkin
Style: FSG, BRHG
Pre-poo/DT: Conditioner with honey & coconut oil

iHerb discount code: PNQ285
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Old 06-21-2013, 08:10 AM   #11
 
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[/QUOTE]

The Ingredients look good but it mostly just sits in my shower. The peppermint oil makes me nervous after previous skin issues so I only tried it as a cowash 1-2 times. I've used it as a LI but it gets very sticky / producty if I use too much. I don't recall if I've tried it as a RO, I guess I should do that [/QUOTE]

No biggie, I just thought I'd ask before I ordered it. Thank you though!
__________________
Fine texture
Low/ Med porosity
Med density

Wash: SM MR, GTTT
RO: SM MR, GTTT
LI: SM CSM or SM MR
Styling:AVG, KCCC, Volumax MEGA (HG), Joico Curl Definer
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Old 06-21-2013, 04:27 PM   #12
 
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I have been confused about this also. I've been using Suave Clarifying and Suave Sun Ripened Strawberry conditioners for co washing. They have no sulphates and no coco-betaine (my hair hates it) but it they do have EDTA. I understand EDTA to be chelating... but I just haven't been sure if that's the same or as good as a cleansing ingredient. I'm glad to read that friction is the biggest part of cleansing...but is clarifying still necessary?
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CG since 3/1/13
3B; Low porosity, Coarse, & Extremely Protein Sensitive
Very high density, waist length

Co wash: Suave Clarifying or Sun Ripened Strawberry
RO: Sun Ripened Strawberry, TN, or TN w/ veg glycerin
Sealer: apricot oil
Styler: 4 Naturals Spring Back Custard, Pantene Curl Defining Mousse, or BB "Mudd"
Using a hard water filter, microfiber towel, & silk head scarves & pillowcases

Avoiding: protein, coconut, & parabens
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Old 06-21-2013, 08:48 PM   #13
 
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There is a difference between a "cleansing conditioner" such as CJ Daily Fix which includes coco-betaine in a creamy conditioner base and a regular conditioner that can be used for co-washing.

You can use either to co-wash. The idea is that the conditioner + friction emulsifies the sebum, oil, dirt on your scalp and rinses it away. So technically you don't need a cleansing agent with co-washing. However some prefer co-washing with a cleansing conditioner.


Okay, I have a story that I haven't shared yet on this board. When I used to do oil paintings back in college, my art professor told us to get cheap conditioners for our brushes to condition them. For whatever reason, one day I decided to use my cheapie Suave conditioner on my brush without cleaning it first. It cleaned it! My cheap Suave conditioner cleaned my oil-encrusted paintbrush! I was flabbergasted. It was either Suave, or paint thinner!

It was one of the reasons that made me think co-washing was legit and okay to try. So I did and I had a bad experience. Oh well, I guess a scalp is different than a paint brush.
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fine - low porosity - medium density - normal elasticity. Very high dews. Soft water.

Cowash: CJ Daily Fix
Low-poo: CJ Gentle Cleansing Shampoo, Giovanni 2chic BK&AO
RO: TN Radiant Care, Giovanni SaS, Ogx BKT*, Sukin Nourishing, SS Caitlin's, various
LI: sometimes TN Radiant Care
Styler: FSG with CNPF, CJ Pattern Pusha, Volumax Mega, Ouidad Climate Control*, Ogx BKT serum*
PT: CJ Repair Me, IAgirl's gelatine

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