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Old 04-12-2013, 09:17 PM   #1
 
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Default Sorry, my confusion is about sodium coco sulfate in Yes to...products.

Is it CG? is it a sulfate? I searched here and got conflicting information. Dusa, are you our there? any other experts? I want to know because they are in the Yes to line, which are also very popular here.
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Old 04-12-2013, 10:43 PM   #2
 
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Yes it's a sulfate. It's just a complete derived version as opposed to a chemically purified one. Like refined table sugar, versus raw sugar.

"The difference is really one of purification. Coconut oil is made up of a wide range of fatty acids. They can have as few as 8 carbon atoms and as many as 20. The majority of the fatty acids are of the 12 carbon variety. That means 45-50% of coconut oil is a fatty acid containing 12 carbons.

When manufacturers make their sulfate detergents they can take pure coconut oil and run the "sulfating" reaction to produce Sodium Coco-sulfate.

However, this material doesn't foam as well and will vary depending on the quality of the coconut crops harvested that year.

Sodium Lauryl sulfate is really just a purified version of the same material. In this case they take the coconut oil and remove most of the non-12 carbon fatty acids. Their starting material is then about 80% C-12 instead of 45-50% C-12.

Ultimately, both products are primarily C-12 or Sodium Lauryl Sulfate so they get the same CAS number. However, pure SLS is more efficient and of more reliable quality so most manufacturers use this."

"The difference between SLS and Sodium Coco sulfate is no greater than the difference between purified water and unpurified water (like hard water, etc.) In terms of how it works in the hair, Sodium Coco Sulfate is just a highly, highly diluted form of SLS."

I stumbled upon this answer in a LJ community and it seems to be consistent with the little bit I know.
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Last edited by Jessiebanana; 04-13-2013 at 11:07 AM.
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Old 04-13-2013, 03:07 AM   #3
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myrna View Post
Is it CG? is it a sulfate? I searched here and got conflicting information. Dusa, are you our there? any other experts? I want to know because they are in the Yes to line, which are also very popular here.
errr. . . what she said.

j/k.

im honored u'd ask my opinion though seeing as how i'm barely 5 months CG and haven't tested out as many products as many seasoned PJs. when i did research surfactants when i was picking out a low poo months ago i figured the most important question to ask wasn't "is this a sulfate?" but "does this act like a sulfate?" meaning would it strip my hair. for me (and JUST me, not trying to impose my hairiness on anybody) the most important cg rule is no silicones because they cause buildup and then don't let moisture get in and my hair just had shoddy definition when i was sulfate free but still using silicones. but that is my hair type. super porous. i also think straight up sulfates are okay to clarify with actually once in a while if you need them. and you can always deep treat afterwards, right? it's not gonna "set you back" like Lorraine Massey says. and if so maybe a few days at most.

anyways so i just did a light google as it's late and i can't sleep and i found this as the first listing:

Sodium Lauryl Sulfate Vs. Sodium Cocoamphoacetate | eHow.com

seems like sodium coco is much much gentler than the traditional sulfate even if it is related/derived/diluted from it. whatever. is it okay for daily use without drying out your hair? i dunno. haven't tried it. also i have high porosity which means my hair can get dryer than death valley if i don't watch out. is it as gentle as the SM shampoos? well probably not because even a newborn baby's bottom isn't as gentle as a SM shampoo. but if you are able to use it Myrna then that is all that matters. and i really want to try the yes to products also bc their
ingredients are wonderful. is this the one you use or the other one?

Yes to Cucumbers Color Care Daily Makeover Shampoo - NaturallyCurly.com

i think ill get my mom the YTC shampoo and have her guinea pig it for me.
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Poos: SM Moisture Retention + Yucca Baobab, TJ's Tea Tree Tingle
Condish: TJ 'sTea Tree Tingle*, SM Moisture Retention* + Curl & Shine + Yucca Baobab, Yes to Blueberries
Stylers: KCKT*, SM Curl Enhancing Smoothie* + Curl & Style Milk*, KCCC*, FSG*, CJ Pattern Pusha, Curl Keeper
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Last edited by dusalocks; 04-13-2013 at 03:11 AM.
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Old 04-13-2013, 08:06 AM   #4
 
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It's still a sulfate so it's not CG. It's a wee bit gentler than sodium
lauryl sulfate (which also comes from coconut) but not by much, it also sounds a lot nicer. It's kinda deceiving when they say "no SLS" because the SCS is not that much different, lol.

I actually use YestoCarrots shampoo (I dilute it) and I love it so much. I normally wash with rhassoul clay, but whenever I have buildup I'll wash with it. It cleans well and my hair doesn't have any reactions to the ingredients.
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▪ Wiry texture ▪ SO pattern ▪ Sharpy-sized & pen-sized curls
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▪ Komaza Care Califia Moisturizing Cream
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Old 04-13-2013, 12:52 PM   #5
 
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rizosmio, do you dilute it with oil? water? conditioner? and by how much?
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Poos: SM Moisture Retention + Yucca Baobab, TJ's Tea Tree Tingle
Condish: TJ 'sTea Tree Tingle*, SM Moisture Retention* + Curl & Shine + Yucca Baobab, Yes to Blueberries
Stylers: KCKT*, SM Curl Enhancing Smoothie* + Curl & Style Milk*, KCCC*, FSG*, CJ Pattern Pusha, Curl Keeper
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Old 04-13-2013, 02:40 PM   #6
 
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Oh sorry, I dilute it in water. I squeeze a small amount in an applicator bottle (way less than an ounce, 1/4 of an ounce maybe) and fill the rest with water until 8oz.

I was meticulous in picking out my shampoo...I wanted just one sulfate, relatively strong but not the strongest, and high in the ingredient list. Basically because I planned on diluting it a lot but still have it be effective. This one has no protein and zero plant extracts...it was exactly what I was out for. It was a good pick I think, it's been great. Definitely not CG though so don't let the sodium "coco" sulfate confuse you, it's a strong sulfate.
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▪ Wiry texture ▪ SO pattern ▪ Sharpy-sized & pen-sized curls
▪ Coarse strands ▪ Normal porosity ▪ Normal elasticity ▪ High density

J'adore...
▪ Rhassoul clay
▪ Jane Carter Solutions Nutrient Replenishing Conditioner
▪ Komaza Care Califia Moisturizing Cream
▪ Yes to Carrots Shampoo
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Old 04-13-2013, 04:44 PM   #7
 
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Well, more confusion. The Yes to Cucumbers has been reformulated. I have the old formula with Coco sulfate; the newer formulation has coco betaine. So: what is the difference? Rizos, diluting sounds like a great idea and may be the answer. Dusa, you are a peach, for staying up and researching for me!
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Old 04-14-2013, 05:47 AM   #8
 
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The new formula on the Yesto Cucumbers is perfectly CG. The cleansers are disodium cocoamphodiacetate and cocamidopropyl betaine (both are mild agents) and no sulfates.

If I were a PJ I'd be all over this line
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▪ Wiry texture ▪ SO pattern ▪ Sharpy-sized & pen-sized curls
▪ Coarse strands ▪ Normal porosity ▪ Normal elasticity ▪ High density

J'adore...
▪ Rhassoul clay
▪ Jane Carter Solutions Nutrient Replenishing Conditioner
▪ Komaza Care Califia Moisturizing Cream
▪ Yes to Carrots Shampoo
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Old 04-14-2013, 06:43 AM   #9
 
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I absolutely LOVE the smell of the Y2Cukes line. I use the condish to co wash in between low poos.
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Old 04-14-2013, 07:55 AM   #10
 
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Thanks much, Rizos. I really appreciate your response. I have been useing the SM line, and I love it but since I have added AVG as my sealer, I think the SM line may be a tad heavy, maybe over conditioning. So I want to have an alternative. Maybe I will use my Walgreens store credit to get the new formula.... : )
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Old 05-08-2013, 02:49 PM   #11
 
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I have some of these products coming in the mail, and I am really excited to try them!
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-CO: every other night (air dry) VO5 (various scents), As I Am Coconut Co-Wash
-Low poo (As needed): ION Color Defense Clarifying, Yes To line, Giovanni TTTT
-RO: GVP CB, VO5 Split Ends, Herbal Essence Totally Twisted
-LI: Giovanni DLI or a tiny bit of my co-wash or RO (sometimes none)
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Old 05-08-2013, 03:56 PM   #12
 
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Gosh, I am stuck with the Cucumbers old formula!!! Now I wish I'd waited to try this, because it's a huge bottle and I'll probably have it for a year lol. But that being said, I didn't feel like my hair was stripped or harmed by the formula I have. I was well aware that it was a "sulfate" sulfate but I found it surprisingly gentle. I don't feel like sulfates are my enemy anymore
I may begin to dilute just like Rizos it if I need to use it often because a little goes a long way. I used about a quarter amount and I have a ton of hair. It is sure to be a staple. I would have much rather tried some of the other popular sulphate 'poos like CHS but there is no way I'm spending 15-20 bucks on a hair product... I could eat for a week for that lol
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