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Old 05-13-2013, 11:19 AM   #21
 
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Laura1982, I think you're right about that. Before CG I would lose hairs throughout the day but now the products hold it in and it all comes out in the shower. If you're not seeing thinner hair it's most likely normal shedding that can't escape

On the issue of massaging I can say from experience that I did not wash well when I used shampoo because I thought the suds would do the job. I would often end up with a smelly scalp within 24 hours. Since going CG and learning to massage properly my scalp feels (and smells) much cleaner. I massage about the same amount regardless of whether I'm co-washing or low-pooing.
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Old 05-13-2013, 11:28 AM   #22
 
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That's fine. Being scared is okay, just as long as you're aware.
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Old 05-13-2013, 11:49 AM   #23
 
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I really doubt it's the cowashing. I would guess it is due to hormonal changes or simply getting older. My hair started thinning in my late 20's, early 30's. and I wasn't CG. your hair and skin changes throughout your life.
Thanks for your input but I really think it's the cowashing. The difference in the density of my hair is drastic and has taken place over the last 4 months, exactly the time I've been cowashing.
Sorry, I didn't read your OP well enough- I thought it had been over the 3 year period you've been CG.
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Old 05-13-2013, 11:58 AM   #24
 
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I can't exclusively cowash either. My hair starts shedding like mad and my scalp gets pissed off at me. I can do it 3 weeks in a row max. Then I have to lather up. I do use sulfate free shampoo though. And my products at CG friendly.
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Old 05-13-2013, 07:54 PM   #25
 
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I'm going to throw another "theory" out there. I believe that conditioner on the scalp, with or without massage, tends to open the hair follicle allowing it to release the hair. It took a year for me to learn than I cannot conditioner wash either. I noticed that my hair was falling out at the root - not breaking off. Any comments on my crazy theory??
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Old 05-13-2013, 08:27 PM   #26
 
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I'm going to throw another "theory" out there. I believe that conditioner on the scalp, with or without massage, tends to open the hair follicle allowing it to release the hair. It took a year for me to learn than I cannot conditioner wash either. I noticed that my hair was falling out at the root - not breaking off. Any comments on my crazy theory??
Actually I found this which is somewhat close to your theory. This poster basically realized that conditioner-washing was softening the roots too much, thus leading to excessive shedding during the cleansing and detangling process.

This might sound like me. The roots of my hair were particularly soft and smooth (which I liked at the time).

As long as it grows back, that's all I care about now!

Excessive Shedding: Could Co-Washing Be the Culprit? | hairscapades
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Old 05-13-2013, 10:55 PM   #27
 
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So my last three washes were low-poos.

I just washed my hair w/ my low-poo and took care to be extremely gentle. I didn't detangle in the shower. I got out and applied some KCKT and detangled then.

WOW what a difference! I checked the drain and there were maybe 10-15 hairs today. When I detangled I lost maybe another 10 hairs. That is a HUGE difference to how much I was shedding in the shower last week.

I don't know how many hairs I was losing last week while cowashing, but it was a BALL of wet hair, easily 15 times more hair than I lost today. Today it almost didn't even look as if I had to clean the drain at all. I wish I would have taken pictures of the drain last week to show you a comparison... but gross, who thinks of doing that?

Yes, I am losing some more hairs in my daily life (like when I run my fingers through my hair) but I still don't think it's adding up to just how much hair was in the drain. I didn't even realize how much it was (because the amount grew slowly in the last 4 months) until today. I didn't even think it was possible to lose such little hair.

This (revelation) might be a good sign (in figuring out my problem). Keeping my fingers crossed and I'll keep you posted.
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Old 05-13-2013, 11:16 PM   #28
 
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By the way, thank you to everyone who has shown interest or support in my case! I can only hope that I'll figure it out, and that the information will help (or warn) current and future curly co-washers with the same problem.
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Old 05-14-2013, 05:07 AM   #29
 
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Sorry to read this. As I have posted on the other thread, the link between sulphate surfactant shampoos and shedding/ hair loss is believed to be inflammation at the follicular level and I wonder if this is playing a role here. Inflammation or irritation does not have to be visible to be present or to be causing health problems.

Is your diet and lifestyle as anti inflammatory as possible? Bearing in mind the US/ UK diet is highly pro inflammatory, even the standard self proclaimed 'healthy' diet is often pro inflammatory.

Don't be over enthusiastic with massage, scrubs or pulling at the roots/ detangling, especially if you have any other inflammatory conditions (non skin/ scalp). I find it necessary to be thorough but I don't pull on my hair when detangling at all, let the amount of product (a pile) do the work, and rinse very well until my roots are 'squeaky' with a little massage.

Also choose a product containing basic ingredients: it sometimes concerns me how many are subjecting delicate skin to numerous plant extracts, fragrances and other less than skin friendly chemicals plus 'moisturising' ingredients that will coat and may hold the nasties on the scalp. If you add in sweating, exercise or UV light you have a recipe for cellular irritation/ inflammation.

Anyone who is concerned about cleansing the sebaceous glands of sebum there is an interesting article on cold pre wash rinses over on the Long Hair Community.

CO-washing is not fundamentally much different to cleansing heavy make up off with a cleansing lotion or those with dermatitis cleansing their body with a cream instead of foaming shower gel which doctors do prescribe. No health professional should really freak out about the concept, tho they might have reservations about particular products, ingredients or techniques.
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Old 05-14-2013, 07:42 AM   #30
 
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Firefox has a good point, it's possible you're allergic to something that's in your co-wash but not in the low-poo. Fragrance and preservatives play a big role in what I can and can't use due to skin allergies.
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This is what I'm happiest with right now.
Co-wash: CJ DailyFix
Lo-poo: DermOrganic low-poo
RO: SS Caitlin's co
Leave-in: SheScentIt Okra Repair condish
PT: SS Caitlin's + SS PT
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Old 05-14-2013, 10:26 AM   #31
 
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It's definitely possible that there's one specific ingredient that my scalp does not like. As far as allergies, I don't know... I didn't have any allergic symptoms. Just hair loss over a few months.
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Old 05-14-2013, 02:22 PM   #32
 
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It's definitely possible that there's one specific ingredient that my scalp does not like. As far as allergies, I don't know... I didn't have any allergic symptoms. Just hair loss over a few months.
Pomegranate, what were you using to co-wash? Suave, V05, etc? I'd be interested to know if there is a specific condish that could be the cause of this problem.
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Old 05-15-2013, 12:05 AM   #33
 
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Hi there Hootenanny!

As I live in Asia I've been using an Australian brand as it's one of the only few available CG products around here. The brand is "Sukin Australian Natural Skincare" and I've been using the "Nourishing Conditioner." These are the ingredients:

Aqua, Aloe Barbadensis Leaf Juice, Cetyl Alcohol, Cetrimonium Chloride, Sesamum Indicum (Sesame) Seed Oil, Glycerin, Hydrolized Wheat Protein, Triticum Vulgare (Wheat) Germ Oil, Persea Gratissima (Avocado) Oil, Simmondsia Chinesis (Jojoba) Seed Oil, Rosa Canina Fruit Oil (Rosehip), Tocopherol, Urtica Dioica Extract (Nettle), Arctium Lappa Extract (Burdock), Equisetum Arvense Extract (Horsetail), Phenoxyethanol, Benzyl Alcohol, Citrus Tangerina (Tangerine) Peel Oil, Citrus Nobilis (Mandarin Orange) Peel Oil, Lavandula Angustifolia (Lavender) Oil, Vanilla Planifolia Extract, Citrus Paradisi Extract (Grapefruit Seed), Linalool, Limonene

To my knowledge these ingredients are CG-friendly. It would be very interesting to see what other products and ingredients other curlies with the same problem have been using. I also wonder if there's a particular ingredient that could be causing problems across the board. It might be hard to figure out though.
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Old 05-15-2013, 02:25 AM   #34
 
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Unhappy Help, me too! Too much AVG??

This morning I've put my hair up and -warned by this article- took a closer look at my hair and noticed that I could see my scalp through my hair!!
I remember that a while ago I noticed something of hair getting thinner, especially at both sides by temples and behind the temples. Well, it got worse!!

I was thinking: could this be caused by too much AVG?? I am using more and more aloe vera on my scalp, since I thought it was good to massage scalp with for more volume. But the roots are getting softer and thinner more and more..
Anyone else got these kind of troubles with AVG?

I don't have great hair loss or anything, but apparently the hairs I lost didn't grow back!

Okay, so I am going to leave the AVG out (on my scalp anyway) for a while and wash more regularly with Kesham.

I also use Daily Fix, does anyone noticed any of this after using DF on a regular basis?

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Old 05-15-2013, 02:30 AM   #35
 
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I can't cleanse with cold cream either. I get hella pimples. Maybe that's why I can't cowash.
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Old 05-15-2013, 04:25 AM   #36
 
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I used Sukin! - and my hair hated it! I switched to Australian Organics and dare I say, I think I loose less hair since switching.... :/
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Old 05-15-2013, 09:21 AM   #37
 
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Are you all not washing your hair? like ever?

Perhaps the leave-ins and gels are building up.

I like to say I am no poo, and sometimes find it better to just not co-wash at all, but lightly massage hair with water and apply condish - nightly.

Then once a month or every two weeks use a sulfate poo. It may seem like it defeats the purpose and is stripping, but products can build up...not just cones.

and I have noticed that I am 'seeing' more of my hair shedding. I never noticed it before. But if you are no pooing and letting it be curly, your shed hair has no where to go and when you finally detangle you may get freaked out at what is normal hair loss.

then again, if you are actually 'feeling' the thinness of your hair, it may be just that the products are coating and your hair is thinner than you thought.

these were my observations with my own hair.

happy hair growing.
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Old 05-15-2013, 09:35 AM   #38
 
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I agree with hairhealth (above): other products can build up besides silicones. I stopped using products that contain polyquats when I discovered that cowashing was not enough to remove them (from my hair; this may not be true for others).

But even being polyquat and silicone-free, I still do a low poo at least once every two weeks.
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Old 05-15-2013, 10:08 AM   #39
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rapunzel4ever View Post
[SIZE=2][SIZE=2]This morning I've put my hair up and[SIZE=2] -warned by this article- took a closer look at my hair and noticed [SIZE=2]that I could see my scalp through my hair!!
[SIZE=2]I remember that a while ago I noticed something o[SIZE=2]f hair getting thinner, especially at both sides by [SIZE=2]temples and behin[SIZE=2]d the temples. Well, it got worse!!

[SIZE=2]I was thinking[SIZE=2]: could this be caused by too m[SIZE=2]uch AVG[SIZE=2]??
I'm really sorry this is happening to you as well. I don't know if it's the avg. Maybe? I know it is the second ingredient in the condish I've been using as a cowash so maybe there's a pattern.

I'm not sure that my hair likes avg... gels with it give me that flash drying effect and I used to use Kiss My Face Whenever shampoo and condish a while back and I didn't really like them. (Aloe is the first ingredient.) But I think it's a hair thing rather than a scalp thing. I thought the KMF shampoo + condish was too drying. Oh and when I was using those I didn't experience hair loss, so I guess at least for me it can't be the aloe by itself that is causing this.
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Old 05-15-2013, 10:28 AM   #40
 
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Are you all not washing your hair? like ever?
I co-washed for about 4 months and during that time low-pooed averaging around every 3 weeks.

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and I have noticed that I am 'seeing' more of my hair shedding. I never noticed it before. But if you are no pooing and letting it be curly, your shed hair has no where to go and when you finally detangle you may get freaked out at what is normal hair loss.

then again, if you are actually 'feeling' the thinness of your hair, it may be just that the products are coating and your hair is thinner than you thought.
Yes, yes, less on the floor, more in the shower. I had read this before and this is why I was never alarmed by the massive gobs of hair that were coming out during my cleansing/detangling sessions. Now I look back and DUH of course it had something to do with it.

The tricky part is knowing when the extra shedding in the shower is normal and when it is in excess. If your hair is thinning like mine is, the extra shedding is definitely in excess.

My hair is definitely thinner and it's not just that products are coating it. I've done 3 low-poo washes w/ a coco-betaine shampoo and left my hair mostly naked (except for a bit of Alba LI one day and KCKT another day) so that should have gotten rid of any buildup.

It's not product buildup, my hair is thinner. Not only does it "feel" thinner, but it's also lighter and I can see more of my scalp. And my ponytail is much smaller.

This is so frustrating. About 8 months back I got a haircut where the stylist heavily debulked my hair (causing massive frizz which caused me to seek CG to combat the frizz). I've been slowly growing it out (the shorter bits now reach my chin - the rest of the hair is mid-back) but now my hair is has thinned on top w/ this cowashing thing. So I have about 60% less hair because of these two fiascos now than I did about 1 year ago. And it will take over another year to get my hair back to normal, assuming it even grows back and I haven't done any permanent damage. Not a happy camper.

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happy hair growing.
Thanks, I'll need all the luck I can get.
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