telogen effluvium and hair loss

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pretty sad that a gentle shampoo or a low poo is better then cowashing.
Originally Posted by hambo02
Well, if it's one thing that i learned from this site is that everyone is different. I too wish I could cowash but it just didn't work out for me. At the end of the day you have to listen to your hair and scalp and give it what it needs. There's no point in forcing co-washing or any other technique or product if it's just not helping.

Happy hair days to you!
heyho likes this.
I really thought co-washing was bad for my scalp (causing thinning), but I washed my hair two times with Kesham (a lot of protein) and once with low-poo last week and I lose more hair plus my scalp has burning sensation and feels dry and tight. My hair and scalp are totally off balance. Don't know what to do anymore

_____
2b-c/3a med/fine- low porosity- normal elasticity, BSL
2B/C-3A) fine - low porosity
Routine:
Wash: Daily Fix,SMT, Kesham, Urtekram
RO: Motions CPR Li, Inecto Cocos co, AO GPB, KCTT
acv-rinse, sometimes honey-rinse
LI: coconut oil (winter), CJBC-LI
Styling: AVG, Etos Solid Power Gel, Taft gel, CJPP
, JCCC, BRHG
Plopping~Pixiecurl diffuse~clipping
KrullenWijzer.blogspot.nl
I really thought co-washing was bad for my scalp (causing thinning), but I washed my hair two times with Kesham (a lot of protein) and once with low-poo last week and I lose more hair plus my scalp has burning sensation and feels dry and tight. My hair and scalp are totally off balance. Don't know what to do anymore

_____
2b-c/3a med/fine- low porosity- normal elasticity, BSL
Originally Posted by rapunzel4ever
Were you using the kesham or low-poo intermittently before? If so you may have identified the wrong culprit. Maybe you are sensitive to one of the ingredients in your current two cleansers, many plant extracts and proteins can be allergens or irritants.

Just be gentle on your scalp, use products that contain only gentle surfactants and are pH 4.5 to 5.5 so respect the skin barrier as well as the hair, limit fragrances, preservatives and unnecessary plant extracts, ideally a small number of ingredients and a small number of products.

Aloe vera inner leaf gel is healing and anti inflammatory.
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Boots Essentials gel
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect
Thanks for the advice, Firefox! Recently I was using Kesham more and more, mostly mixed with conditioner, because I figured I could use the protein and it says on the box that it cares for the scalp?! The low-poo I used I used once a month in the past, but it went from sles to sulfate free so I have to check ingredients...could be that the last low-poo only caused trouble because my scalp was very dry already? Maybe I don't need a low-poo as often as I needed a co-wash and my scalp is just freakin' dry?

_____
2b-c/3a med/fine- low porosity- normal elasticity, BSL
2B/C-3A) fine - low porosity
Routine:
Wash: Daily Fix,SMT, Kesham, Urtekram
RO: Motions CPR Li, Inecto Cocos co, AO GPB, KCTT
acv-rinse, sometimes honey-rinse
LI: coconut oil (winter), CJBC-LI
Styling: AVG, Etos Solid Power Gel, Taft gel, CJPP
, JCCC, BRHG
Plopping~Pixiecurl diffuse~clipping
KrullenWijzer.blogspot.nl
Thanks for the advice, Firefox! Recently I was using Kesham more and more, mostly mixed with conditioner, because I figured I could use the protein and it says on the box that it cares for the scalp?! The low-poo I used I used once a month in the past, but it went from sles to sulfate free so I have to check ingredients...could be that the last low-poo only caused trouble because my scalp was very dry already? Maybe I don't need a low-poo as often as I needed a co-wash and my scalp is just freakin' dry?

_____
2b-c/3a med/fine- low porosity- normal elasticity, BSL
Originally Posted by rapunzel4ever
Unless the protein is hydrolysed it will not be absorbed into the hair anyway, just either wash away or clog up the surface. Never pay any attention to vague straplines, look at specific claims (eg. an actual pH) and the ingredients. Even the word 'hypoallergenic' just means most people won't have a negative react to it, it does not mean nobody.

Honestly it sounds more like to me you have a sensitivity of some sort (allergic or irritant contact dermatitis) to one of the ingredients in one of your two products, does not sound like a simple dryness issue (xerosis) you would not be reporting burning from that. A gentle product is not gentle if you are one of the small percentage who are allergic to it, as I said proteins and plant extracts are common allergens or irritants.

What happens if you use the conditioner wash only, no other cleansing products at all? Were you getting hair loss then or have you never tried that, always used the Kesham intermittently?
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Boots Essentials gel
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect
I've been experiencing this as well. I haven't noticed if I'm shedding too much hair since I've always had a lot fall out. But I have noticed my hair feels a lot thinner especially when I put it up in a ponytail. I think it definitely has to do with over conditioning. I am planning on washing my hair with a sulfate shampoo to make sure I remove all products and just use my SM shampoo and RO. For now I will skip the LI until I feel my hair back to normal. I'm hoping this will help and that it doesn't take too long. Good luck to everyone else.
CG NEWBIE
curl type: 2c/3a on a good day
med/high porosity & high density
hair strand width: med/coarse
BSL hair & growing



GOING STRONG!!! SAY NO TO HEAT!!!
I tried low pooing straight for one week as an experiment and lost more hair, too! I think it might be I scrubbed a little bit harder to distribute the bubbles/foam? Not sure. Or maybe it was just my scalp got dry and that caused more hair to shed. . . like you, rapunzel. I never have an itchy scalp and I could tell that the skin there was just super dry with only low pooing. Even with a very gentle low poo like Shea Moisture Moisture Retention which basically only uses a surfactant derived from beets. So I went back to my trusty co-wash, Trader Joe's Tea Tree Tingle. My scalp felt better immediately. And I've washed my hair 2x since and I automatically went back my normal hair loss per wash. (Maybe 20-30 hairs every three days.) I've been cowashing for five and a half years and I have extremely thick hair so I don't know why I got spooked in the first place. Everyone's individual experience is different. (I guess we just tend to heed every warning on this forum). Nevertheless, I think it was extremely valuable of pomegranatecurl to bring it up in the first place. As it stands though, just to let you guys know, my ponytail measures 4 1/4 inches all around and I've been co-washing for five and a half years. I've always been done it very, very gently though. I think that's the key.
3A - C, HP, ME, HD. (Coarse, High Porosity, Medium Elasticity, High Density.)

CG since Nov. 2012

Poos: SM Moisture Retention + Yucca Baobab, TJ's Tea Tree Tingle
Condish: TJ 'sTea Tree Tingle*, SM Moisture Retention* + Curl & Shine + Yucca Baobab, Yes to Blueberries
Stylers: KCKT*, SM Curl Enhancing Smoothie* + Curl & Style Milk*, KCCC*, FSG*, CJ Pattern Pusha, Curl Keeper
Sealers: Jojoba* or Grapeseed* oil

* = HG

I gave up. my scalp was on fire for two days cos I just water washed because washing everyday dried my hair out. I lost more hair shampooing then ever when i cowashed. so im going back to cowashing. my scalp needs it.
I have the same problem. My hair is definitely thinner. Especially at the temples and behind the ears. I had very thick hair before and it still looks fine when I wear a wash & go but when I put my hair in a ponytail you can see my scalp through the hair at the sides!!
Scary...
I should stop cowashing for a while. My problem is that I have VERY dry hair and it starts breaking when I don't condition enough. So I don't know what the best solution would be.
Originally Posted by AnnieRose
I'm sorry to hear this. Have you tried the mod-CG method... conditioning up the lengths and then only using poo on the scalp?
Originally Posted by PomegranateCurl


I have the same problem. My hair is definitely thinner. Especially at the temples and behind the ears. I had very thick hair before and it still looks fine when I wear a wash & go but when I put my hair in a ponytail you can see my scalp through the hair at the sides!!
Scary...
I should stop cowashing for a while. My problem is that I have VERY dry hair and it starts breaking when I don't condition enough. So I don't know what the best solution would be.
Originally Posted by AnnieRose
AnnieRose, do you prepoo every time? (Even 30 minutes before a wash makes a difference.) My hair isn't especially delicate or prone to breakage (probably because my curls aren't as tight as yours) but it is highly porous and it does get very, very dry. Especially with the sun now that summer's here. I've recently gone from prepooing once a week to twice a week to prepooing before every wash. My hair just feels more supple, soft, and responds better this way. (Detangles so much faster!) Maybe if you did this you could switch to a low poo. . . ? Also try castor oil on those areas where you see the scalp. I told my mother to do this and she's growing baby hairs at the temples. It's really filling out fast.
Originally Posted by dusalocks


Thanks for those suggestions! I have actually started low-pooing a little more often. I've also found a different conditioner which seems to do better with my scalp. I've got very sensitive skin (can't wear most brands of makeup) and it's quite oily too. The new conditioner does have oliver oil in it which seems to be going better with my skin. And I have 50% less hairloss then before. My hair is a bit more dry so I'll have to see how I can improve that.
Just washed my hair with a sulfate shampoo then a PT and finished it off with a little conditioner on the bottom half of my hair. Lets see how it feels after. As of now my ponytail measures 4" around but this was before I washed it when it felt thinner. I don't think my issue is hair loss since I'm shedding the same amount as before. I think co washing has caused my hair to become over condition which made my hair lose volume making it feel a lot thinner than before. Not sure if anyone else has had the same effect. I'm hoping this fixes it.
CG NEWBIE
curl type: 2c/3a on a good day
med/high porosity & high density
hair strand width: med/coarse
BSL hair & growing



GOING STRONG!!! SAY NO TO HEAT!!!
Sorry you are not having luck with co-washing. I am the exact opposite. The moment a strong sulfate shampoo hits my hair, it feels like straw and starts falling out like crazy. My shedding is cut down with co washing, but I do use low poo's here and there and will use full on sulfate shampoo if I use a product with cones.

At times I have felt like my hair has looked thinner, but I know less is coming out in the shower. I think my hair is not as full (make that really dry and poofy) since I have been CG, so it makes my hair part more visible.

ETA: My scalp takes a very long time to produce natural oil. It always has. It takes around 2 weeks. I think co-washing helps me in that department, but it's more of a fake fix. It still takes forever to produce oil, but helps with the moisture I am naturally lacking and with the shedding.

I'm really not sure. I've been doing a little reading on the pro's and con's of oiling your scalp.
When I hear terms like "hipster" I think, who told cliques they could leave high school??


Last edited by Fifi.G; 05-31-2013 at 09:19 AM.
Well, I've washed my hair with Daily Fix and lost half the amount of hair than when I low-pooed! No itchy or burning scalp.

Never had problems with Kesham or low-poo before, but I didn't use it as often as I did last week... I think co-washing can be a problem for me when I do it for a long time, so maybe I need to co-wash 3 times then throw in a low-poo. I did that before and it always gave me perfect hair. Fortunately I keep a hair diary and read back that I get hair problems when I co-wash for a long time in a row, summer and winter might change how often I can co-wash...


_____
2b-c/3a med/fine- low porosity- normal elasticity, BSL
2B/C-3A) fine - low porosity
Routine:
Wash: Daily Fix,SMT, Kesham, Urtekram
RO: Motions CPR Li, Inecto Cocos co, AO GPB, KCTT
acv-rinse, sometimes honey-rinse
LI: coconut oil (winter), CJBC-LI
Styling: AVG, Etos Solid Power Gel, Taft gel, CJPP
, JCCC, BRHG
Plopping~Pixiecurl diffuse~clipping
KrullenWijzer.blogspot.nl
I'm just now wondering if the 'thicker hair' (i.e., ponytails measuring larger in diameter) after shampooing is due to the hair cuticle being 'puffed up' a bit, as opposed to lying smoother & flatter than it would with a co-wash? For example, if I wear my hair curly and put it in a ponytail, it's WAY thicker than if I do a blowout and put it in a ponytail. I'm thinking this could be along the same lines: a smoother cuticle = smaller ponytail diameter.
Just my two cents.
Hair Type: 3A/3B; natural color; mid-back length.
Daily: shampoo (varies)
Weekly: Neutrogena Anti-Residue Shampoo.
Fave Rinse-Out Conditioners: HE Hello Hydration; L'oreal Everstrong.
Styling Routine: Squish-scrunch product /conditioner into soaking wet, upside down hair; plop for 10 minutes, air dry. (Diffuser dry front section.)
Fave Styling Products: Tigi Curl Amplifier Creme; Batia & Aleeza gel; Giovanni Sunset Styler; LA Looks Sport Gel.
I gave up. my scalp was on fire for two days cos I just water washed because washing everyday dried my hair out. I lost more hair shampooing then ever when i cowashed. so im going back to cowashing. my scalp needs it.
Originally Posted by hambo02
Ok long break from nc.com. Hamb0 I wanted to mention that if your scalp is "on fire" you might have a scalp condition like seborrheic dermatitis... for which you would need a professional opinion. I don't know much about water washing though. If it's super itchy and awful (dandruff, SD) you'll probably need to treat it with a medicated poo like Selsun Blue or Tgel or one that your derm gives you. Some people have had luck w/ tea tree shampoos for mild cases. Aloe and honey are also supposed to be good for this condition.

Also not all low-poos are created equal... I've learned this the hard way. Some are much harsher than others so it's worthwhile to experiment. The one I was using before was drying out my hair and making my head itchy after a few washes but I switched to Giovanni TTTT shampoo and my hair and scalp have normalized. Just a few thoughts.

Do what's best for you. If the "scalp on fire" feeling continues I would highly recommend visiting a derm.
I'm just now wondering if the 'thicker hair' (i.e., ponytails measuring larger in diameter) after shampooing is due to the hair cuticle being 'puffed up' a bit, as opposed to lying smoother & flatter than it would with a co-wash? For example, if I wear my hair curly and put it in a ponytail, it's WAY thicker than if I do a blowout and put it in a ponytail. I'm thinking this could be along the same lines: a smoother cuticle = smaller ponytail diameter.
Just my two cents.
Originally Posted by Pheebie
When I style the CG way my hair definitely looks much flatter... this is why I didn't catch on that my hair was actually thinning for a very long time. That and all the "no touching" rules.

So yes, you are right, that the style can affect the "look" of the density of the hair, and may affect the ponytail size a little as well. You are supposed to smooth out the hair before you measure your ponytail if that makes sense so you're not measure air or hair curled up on itself.

This is also why, since I've lost density, I've stopped styling or using products and let my hair be more floofy in the past few weeks because it looks fuller than when clumped.

For me though, besides the pony being smaller, I can see much more scalp, my hair feels lighter, lays differently... even the top of my head feels a little cooler if you can believe that. Definite loss of density for me.

I've actually been really sad about this. I'm trying not to think about it. I'm currently traveling and spending time with my family. I'm trying not to worry about my hair. But then I'll wash my hands in the bathroom and catch a glimpse of my now-more-visible scalp in the mirror and get really distressed or just down. Like is this the new me? Is this what I have to deal with now? I thought by now I'd be seeing tons of baby hairs in the scalp "cracks" by now but I can't find them. I really really wish some of the other posters who started threads about hair thinning/cowashing posted the conclusion to their experiences. Like was it really the cowashing? Was it an allergy? Another condition exacerbated by the cowashing? Did their hair grow back? How long did it take for their hair to grow? Did they visit a derm? What did they say? This info would be so useful to me but all of the threads were abandoned by the OP's.
PomegranateCurl, was there anything else going on in your life at the time that might've been the cause of hairloss? Probably not because that's why you determined it was cowashing to begin with but just to be sure. Also, have you tried any supplements? I'm taking hair skin nail vitamins (I already have a good diet but just to see) and I think it may be helping because I have to shave my legs everyday now. LOL! That wasn't the case before. It's hard to tell though because my density is the same but I think to think they're helping. And I know you're probably afraid of rubbing your scalp at the moment but my mom has been using castor oil on her edges and all these baby hairs are springing forth. I think it's really helping fill out the area. There's a definite difference.
3A - C, HP, ME, HD. (Coarse, High Porosity, Medium Elasticity, High Density.)

CG since Nov. 2012

Poos: SM Moisture Retention + Yucca Baobab, TJ's Tea Tree Tingle
Condish: TJ 'sTea Tree Tingle*, SM Moisture Retention* + Curl & Shine + Yucca Baobab, Yes to Blueberries
Stylers: KCKT*, SM Curl Enhancing Smoothie* + Curl & Style Milk*, KCCC*, FSG*, CJ Pattern Pusha, Curl Keeper
Sealers: Jojoba* or Grapeseed* oil

* = HG

Pomegranate Curl, thank you for posting about this. I just found the thread and it has been really interesting.

I think seeing a dermatologist or trichologist is not necessarily a bad thing if you feel you need more input, but I'd be conservative about using any drastic products designed to deal with hair loss as they can have unexpected results. I think that if it was the co washing, and you're noticing less shedding now, you will probably see the hair growth recover. It might take a while as the hair follicles go in phases and have a 'resting' phase, not every follicle is always active at the best of times. I'm no expert but it makes sense to me that the baby hairs might not emerge immediately. I totally sympathise with feeling stressed by it, but I also think it is early days and you'll probably be absolutely fine.

I also think I've had more hair loss with CG, I think maybe it is to do with the lack of silicones - without their slip I've had a lot more tangles. What you have said about conditioner on the scalp making hair more likely to come out during detangling is interesting. I am actually using the odd shampoo, cone etc right now.
UK based wavy

Mostly waves, but curls and straight bits too!
Fine to medium, high porosity, medium density, very low elasticity
Highlights damage (growing it out), seems to like protein and need lots of moisture.

Cleanse - CJDF, trying out low poos ; Co wash- Uk chemist brands, Urtekram Rose or Aloe, Hairveda Amala Cream Rinse; RO - varies, Tigi Moisture Maniac, Desert Essence Coconut ; Leave in - Keracare natural textures; Sealant - argan oil
Trying out new things, still looking.
PomegranateCurl, was there anything else going on in your life at the time that might've been the cause of hairloss?
Originally Posted by dusalocks
You know, I've been thinking about this lately.... I did have an extremely stressful project back in January, around the time I started cowashing, and I've been reading that stress can cause telogen effluvium. But then the types of stressors mentioned were along the lines of someone in your family dying, surgery, a major accident etc. so I didn't think the stress from the project fit into that category, because after all it was work-related. But I guess the hair doesn't differentiate between work-stress and family-stress lol!

It could be something else, like a zinc or iron deficiency too. Whether or not the cowashing was the root cause, it definitely exacerbated the problem because it made me shed like crazy!

Also, have you tried any supplements?
Originally Posted by dusalocks
No I haven't but I'm interested in starting to take some biotin. I did read that acne-biotin thread so eh maybe not great for me since I'm acne-prone already. We'll see. I'll definitely start taking some B-complex though and a multivitamin to cover all basis. My bloodwork coming up should let me know if I'm deficient in anything.

And I know you're probably afraid of rubbing your scalp at the moment but my mom has been using castor oil on her edges and all these baby hairs are springing forth. I think it's really helping fill out the area. There's a definite difference.
Originally Posted by dusalocks
This is interesting. Yes you're right, too afraid right now for any new drastic concoctions and rubbing but I'll keep it in mind! Thanks!
I guarantee you your hair/body does not differentiate between work or family stress. Stress is stress. Pure and simple. I'm actually going to school to be a therapist so it's an interest of mine.

Stress - Radiolab

This is a great program on the subject if you're interested. The physiological effects of stress are no joke.

I think the sort of vigorous scrubbing of the scalp you've mentioned would cause excessive shedding. But if it was purely manual, your hair should grow back. It hasn't been that long since you stopped co-washing so give your scalp a chance to platy catch up. You're being so gentle with your hair right now. I can't imagine it not bouncing back.

(Oh I just checked and apparently there's 5,000 mg of biotin in my hair vitamin for what that's worth.)
3A - C, HP, ME, HD. (Coarse, High Porosity, Medium Elasticity, High Density.)

CG since Nov. 2012

Poos: SM Moisture Retention + Yucca Baobab, TJ's Tea Tree Tingle
Condish: TJ 'sTea Tree Tingle*, SM Moisture Retention* + Curl & Shine + Yucca Baobab, Yes to Blueberries
Stylers: KCKT*, SM Curl Enhancing Smoothie* + Curl & Style Milk*, KCCC*, FSG*, CJ Pattern Pusha, Curl Keeper
Sealers: Jojoba* or Grapeseed* oil

* = HG

Hi, ladies!

I just got done reading this thread, and it's been so informative.

I've had really bad thinning at my temples since last fall, and then earlier this year, the thinning got really bad along my forehead. PomegranateCurl, it looks just like that picture you posted upthread.

I saw an assistant at my derm's office in June and asked her about it, but she said that it might just be genetic. I started taking biotin in the spring, and it helped fill in the temples, but the forehead area is really, really thin.

I don't co-wash, but I'm at a loss as to what to do. I used Jamaican castor oil the nights before I wash, but it doesn't seem to be helping.

I've also been trying to only wash my hair twice a week since it's been really dry, and perhaps I need to do it more often. I also have been putting conditioner on my scalp since I put it on throughout my hair, but will try just doing it mid-length on down.

Thanks for all the suggestions! Here's to less thinning hair for all of us!!
Mod-CG since December 2010.
Hair type: NC: 2A; FIA: 2cFii; Fine, normal porosity, normal elasticity
Cleansing: CJ Cleansing Conditioner, Trader Joe's Tea Tree, or Deva No Poo
Daily conditioner: Deva One C or CJ Beauticurls Strengthening Hair Cond or GPB
Styling products: Deva B'Leave In + Deva Curl Cream + AnGel; or
SS CEJ + BRHG; or AG: Recoil + BRHG; or KCKT + KCCC + BRHG
Treatments: SS protein treatment or CJ Curl Fix or Nexxus Emergencee + CJ Curl Rehab

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