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Lauraimes 05-21-2013 05:26 AM

Leave-in questions
 
I'm new to using a leave-in and I have a few questions.

I've been experimenting with using a leave-in, and have done the following:
- Spray my hair wet with warm water (to open the cuticle)
- Add a tiny blob of CJ Beauticurls Argan & Olive Oil Conditioner to the spray bottle
- Spray that on my hair
- Combing through with a wide tooth comb
- Applying CJ CQ
- Plopping
- Gorgeous hair!

However, I did this again on the second day and precisely that what I was so scared for happened: I got overconditioned.

For those on the app: my properties are fine, low porosity, high density. Prone to getting overconditioned and weighing down.

On to the questions, then.

- What do you do to recover from overconditioned hair? I've had it before and what I basically did was just using low-poo and no conditioner at all, but this was also because I thought the CJ conditioner was no good for me. Turns out that it does work, but only as a diluted LI.
- Do you only apply leave-in after washing your hair or do you re-apply on consequent days if you don't wash your hair on a daily basis?
- Do you get overconditioned from applying too much leave-in or from applying it too often? What do you do to prevent that from happening?

kathymack 05-21-2013 05:55 AM

First of all, you have to realize that the cuticle is not like a Venetian blind--it doesn't open and close that easily. Spraying warm water on your hair isn't going to open the cuticle. You may not be overconditioned, just too much product on your hair that isn't absorbed weighing it down.

I have never really been able to do second day hair, so I can't make suggestions about that. I wet and style every day.

If you are overconditioned, there are two ways to handle that--lowpoo or protein to counteract. It's all about getting the moisture/protein balance correct.

Lauraimes 05-21-2013 06:02 AM

Thanks, kathymack! I was already fearing that warm water wouldn't be as effective as I hoped, so thanks for clarifying that :)

I'm a bit confused now. I thought you washed your hair every day, but I'm thinking you just might be re-wetting it.

I'll see if I can restore the balance, thanks! A PT might just do the trick.

Lynaea 05-21-2013 07:37 AM

Laura, a full wetting will rinse out most of the (water soluble) products most CGers use so adding LI and additional stylers wouldn't be an issue. Just squirting hair won't really remove any of the LI and styler you used the day before so you're adding product on top of product. I think from other threads you've been doing this but the LI spray is a new addition. I can't add much of anything to my hair once it's dry or it will go limp. If you feel you need more moisture maybe do a full rinse every-other-day and do the LI spray again then??? Just a thought.

kathymack 05-21-2013 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lauraimes (Post 2172220)
Thanks, kathymack! I was already fearing that warm water wouldn't be as effective as I hoped, so thanks for clarifying that :)

I'm a bit confused now. I thought you washed your hair every day, but I'm thinking you just might be re-wetting it.

I'll see if I can restore the balance, thanks! A PT might just do the trick.

I've wet my hair in the shower every day since I've worn it curly--started around 24 and am now 61. Only use a shampoo every few months if I use an ingredient my hair doesn't like. I use natural soap bars to cleanse (maybe every 10 days in winter and every 5 days in summer.)

Got my haircut/highlight on Sat. My CJ DF had rolled out of the bag in the car. By the time I realized this, it was too late. They used Deva NoPoo. BIG MISTAKE. My hair has been horrible the last few days--really frizzy and soft (which is your problem, so it might not be overconditioning.) When I checked ingredient lists--aveyou had no offending ingredients, CurlMart had polyquat 7. I used a shampoo with Sodum C14-C16 Olefin Sulfonate and Cocamidopropyl Betaine in it. Hope it removes it so I don't have to do SLS.

Lauraimes 05-21-2013 11:41 AM

Lyneae, what you say definitely makes sense. I know very well that squirting water on my hair will not remove anything I applied earlier, yet for some mysterious reason I wasn't really aware of that, so I'm glad you point it out. I'm going to give just rinsing every other day a good thought. Usually my hair looks worst on the day I washed it.

Katyhmack, oh no! I hope your hair goes back to normal soon. It's so gorgeous. I like how you get these amazing (and consistent) results by using natural products. That's what I aspire to achieve as well once I figure out what my hair really likes (so far, I only know what it dislikes). I have a two questions for you:

- What natural shampoo bars do you use? I think it shouldn't be too difficult to get hold of natural shampoo bars and I just might like it. I don't co-wash, always low-poo. Co-washing is too much for my hair to handle.
- Did you assess your properties yourself or did you get an analysis?
- What would you recommend for me at this point? Low-poo, RO with Aubrey Organics GPB, diluted LI spray, style as usual? Or should I omit the improvised LI again, let my hair recover and then try it?

Btw, I made my first batch of FSG today! It seems to be very liquid yet slimy when I touch it. Curious to see what it does for my hair, but I have to fix my current problem first. Can't change too many things at a time.

Consciously going CG is quite challenging, actually. I've had the same routine for seven years and now I'm trying to find a new routine. I adjust minor things and no more than one at a time, at least for one week. I just wish I would find something my hair likes. Knowing what it dislikes is definitely useful, but a bit discouraging at times (not that I'm giving up! I love my curls and natural products too much).

Jessiebanana 05-21-2013 12:18 PM

I thought I might need protein when I was over conditioned. This is not the case! I just clarify my hair by washing twice with my low poo.

I can't use a RO for a leave in. They are too heavy. I love the Smoothing Lotion cause it's slightly watery. I'm not tempted to over do it because it's very slippery and distributes well...which is also a money saver!

If you have low porosity hair just throw away water bottles...they are beyond useless. I rewet my hair in the shower everyday and I shampoo once or twice a week, depending on the week.

Lauraimes 05-21-2013 12:27 PM

Hi Jessiebanana!

The spray bottle actually works for me. Yes, it takes quite some time and it never gets soaking wet, but my hair looks much better on those days than on washing days.

Just a question for you: are ROs still too heavy as LIs when you dilute them?

Jessiebanana 05-21-2013 01:42 PM

For some reason rinse out conditioners get a bit tacky in my hair. They're okay in a pinch though, if I'm sleeping over my gfs and don't want to bring the extra bottle, but they cause limpness issues if I use them everyday.

I don't know what the ingredient difference is.

kathymack 05-21-2013 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lauraimes (Post 2172369)
L

Katyhmack, oh no! I hope your hair goes back to normal soon. It's so gorgeous. I like how you get these amazing (and consistent) results by using natural products. That's what I aspire to achieve as well once I figure out what my hair really likes (so far, I only know what it dislikes). I have a two questions for you:

- What natural shampoo bars do you use? I think it shouldn't be too difficult to get hold of natural shampoo bars and I just might like it. I don't co-wash, always low-poo. Co-washing is too much for my hair to handle.
- Did you assess your properties yourself or did you get an analysis?
- What would you recommend for me at this point? Low-poo, RO with Aubrey Organics GPB, diluted LI spray, style as usual? Or should I omit the improvised LI again, let my hair recover and then try it?

.

Hair seems better today, despite the 70 dewpoint!

I'm sure that you should be able to find natural soap/shampoo bars where you use. Just be careful of the ingredients. You want soap made the cold process way--saponified oils (my hair hates castor oil, so I stay away from that.) They are more then cowashing, but gentler then lowpoo. Low porosity folks seem to like them better then others. They were really popular about 5 years ago, but feel out of favor because they are alkaline and hair is acid.

I did assess my own properties. Not really hard for me. My hair has always been fine. When I was younger, I was told that it was fine although there was alot of it. Now that I'm older, it's lost a lot of density (age, thyroid and a medication I take.) When it's short and there isn't a lot of it, and it takes 6 hours to dry with no product--that's low porosity.

I rotate products, so it's really hard for me to advise you on what to do. I wouldn't/couldn't use the same things all of the time.

Firefox7275 05-21-2013 03:46 PM

Agree with Kathymack about the difference between overconditioning and simple product overload, also agree with Lynae that a thorough water rinse or co-wash should get any excess water soluble products out. I don't believe my porous hair has ever been overconditioned, but it has had product overload and I've never needed shampoo to correct that unless I have used silicones.

Also would ask why you want to 'open' the cuticle anyway? Most ingredients in conditioners adsorb to the surface of the hair, they don't absorb into the shaft itself. Small fatty acids such as lauric acid from coconut oil can penetrate dry hair with a 'closed' cuticle, there is a school of thought that says they penetrate dry hair better since oil and water doesn't mix.

Lauraimes 05-21-2013 11:35 PM

It's actually a relief to realise that product overload is more likely the cause of my current problems than overconditioning. I put in a French braid today and I might wash my hair tomorrow, so we'll see.

I tried to open the cuticle because it feels as if most products just sit on top of my hair instead of really doing something. I had no idea how this really works and I think this thread has been one of the most useful. It taught me a lot!

Firefox, what would you recommend? Continue my experiment after having washed my hair (but instead of spraying more diluted LI on top, just doing it once to avoid product overload) or skip it?

Kathymack, I'll look into the shampoo bars, thanks! Will you let me know when you have a "verdict" about SM Curling Soufflé? I'm still thinking about getting either that or KCCC (price-wise it doesn't really matter).

kathymack 05-22-2013 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lauraimes (Post 2172599)

Kathymack, I'll look into the shampoo bars, thanks! Will you let me know when you have a "verdict" about SM Curling Soufflé? I'm still thinking about getting either that or KCCC (price-wise it doesn't really matter).

Even before I bought the SM Souffle, I would have said try KCCC. I used the Souffle again today. Weather isn't great--dewpoints in the high 60's. I barely used any of the Souffle--much less then most of my jelly products. Not sure my hair absorbed the product. It's at least 8 hours and it's still not absorbed. I used a tiny amount of MD Mango li under it.

Not sure I'll try it again. I got a little tingling on my scalp. I was allergic to the original Shea Moisture li. Never figured out what it was. Don't know if I'm allergic to something in this.

curlicious13 05-22-2013 05:20 PM

I don't use a leave in at all. I wash with a shampoo that has a conditioner in it, grease my scalp, seal my ends, then style. I do a deep condition 2 times a month. But I haven't mastered the 2nd & 3rd day hair. So I wet/style every night. Take down next day if I go out. I love the Shea moisture curl milk & smoothie. They absorbs in my hair & don't weigh it done.

Lauraimes 05-23-2013 12:22 AM

Kathymack, perhaps getting KCCC first is the way to go. It's much easier and cheaper to get anyway, and so many people are enthusiastic about it (whereas the responses to the Soufflé are so-so).

rapunzel4ever 05-23-2013 02:04 AM

@Lauraimes: I'm with Kathymack concerning the product overload.

Be careful not to give up on new products too easily or you're well on your way of becoming a PJ (I know ;-) )
Whether a product works or not has a lot to do with styling methods and not necessarily so much with the products. I tried all different kind of products and now that I've found a method that works for me I can use practically anything and get a pretty consistent result.

I use a waterspray as well (not daily though), mostly consisting of 50% rose water and 50% (demi) water. When I use it I use just enough to re-activate the gel that's already in my hair. After scrunching a bit I pixidiffuse and am ready to go. When my hair frizzes a lot I might use a tiny bit of CO or CCCCL before scrunching.

Recently I tried a new mix with AVG to revive my waves a bit and keep them moisturized at the same time.
I used 100ml rose water, 50ml demi water and 3/4 Tbsp AVG (Aloe Pura 99.9% Bio Active Aloe Vera)
This works very well without increasing frizz, which I usually get with water sprays!

Lauraimes 05-23-2013 02:09 AM

Haha, I try very hard to avoid becoming a PJ! I try to tell myself I can't get a new styling product before finishing my current bottle.

I might want to try AVG as well... Where did you get it? De Tuinen?

rapunzel4ever 05-23-2013 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lauraimes (Post 2172998)
Haha, I try very hard to avoid becoming a PJ! I try to tell myself I can't get a new styling product before finishing my current bottle.

I might want to try AVG as well... Where did you get it? De Tuinen?

I bought the AVG at the local drugstore, but De Tuinen should have it as well. (Or maybe Erica Kruiderijen)
I think AVG is great stuff, I use it for curl forming, to dilute thick gel, SOTC and now for refreshing. I don't need much to make it work.


_____
2b-c/3a med/fine- low porosity- normal elasticity, BSL

Lauraimes 06-02-2013 01:02 AM

I'm still experimenting with the leave-in and not sure what to think about it, but I did change something in my current routine based on the advice I got here. Instead of always using my spray bottle to re-wet my hair, I simply use the shower head and it saves me a lot of time! It still takes some time before it's soaking wet, but it doesn't have to be like that anyway. So thanks for the tips! No product overload for me anymore. Completely cutting out the polyquats has helped as well.


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