CurlTalk

CurlTalk (http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/)
-   General Discussion about Curly Hair (http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/general-discussion-about-curly-hair/)
-   -   Question about silicones and coconut oil (http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/general-discussion-about-curly-hair/158545-question-about-silicones-coconut-oil.html)

Alycat 05-22-2013 04:02 AM

Question about silicones and coconut oil
 
My fine, wavy curls do well with a gentle sulphate shampoo and a silicone conditioner or styling product but I have started swimming twice a week and my hair is drier than it was.

I feel my silicone products protect from the chlorine a bit but would like to go back to using coconut oil as a pre-poo overnight on days I have swum, the question is, will the coconut get through the silicone or am I just wasting my time applying it?

PomegranateCurl 05-22-2013 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alycat (Post 2172627)
will the coconut get through the silicone or am I just wasting my time applying it?

Hmmm I have NO idea. Never thought about cones sealing the chlorine out. Interesting. But, since silicones are a sealer and coconut oil penetrates the shaft, why not try applying coconut oil and then sealing w/ the cones?

If your hair is super dry could I suggest going fully CG? If you cut out the sulphates it should really help w/ the dryness.

Also you should think about how you use silicones. I would imagine the best routine for cone-users would probably be something like:

shampoo (coco-betaine low poo or mild sulfate to clarify the cones, no silicones in the shampoo!)
CG rinse-out (moisture, no silicones!)
CG leave-in (moisture, no silicones!)
CG gel, mousse, whatever other styler (can be non-CG if final layer)
silicone sealer

Only the very last thing you layer should have silicones so it seals in the moisture and the excess water out. Maybe some cone-users on the board can chime in on this one? The idea would be to layer products in such a way that the silicones don't disrupt the intake of moisture. So use all your moisture-products first before adding silicones. You would be breaking down the cones with your shampoo, then adding moisture (via your RO + LI, no cones so it can penetrate the shaft!) then seal in all the moisture w/ cones.


Regarding swimming different routines to help protect hair from chlorine. I know there's quite a few threads on this board but I'm too lazy to look them up right now. :toothy6: I know some curlies soak their hair in olive oil, or conditioner then olive oil... or even soaking hair in plain water before swimming helps. There are always swimming caps as well. Good luck!

Alycat 05-23-2013 05:26 AM

Thanks for your ideas - I did wonder about using coconut oil before the silicones but the problem is my hair is sooo fine I can't layer products. I can only really use a conditioner OR a styling product, not both. Which is why the silicone-containing Moroccan Oil I use is so good, it both conditions and styles.

I can't do CG for the same reason - tried for three years and my hair was horrible - even low poos give me build-up within two washes and I get less curl rather than more.

I think I'm going to try using the coconut as a pre-poo even if I've got silicones in my hair, if it doesn't soak in it will at least protect a bit when I shampoo and I might revisit low poos for the ocasional wash.

Failing that, it might have to be a swim cap...

Firefox7275 05-23-2013 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alycat (Post 2173025)
Thanks for your ideas - I did wonder about using coconut oil before the silicones but the problem is my hair is sooo fine I can't layer products. I can only really use a conditioner OR a styling product, not both. Which is why the silicone-containing Moroccan Oil I use is so good, it both conditions and styles.

I can't do CG for the same reason - tried for three years and my hair was horrible - even low poos give me build-up within two washes and I get less curl rather than more.

I think I'm going to try using the coconut as a pre-poo even if I've got silicones in my hair, if it doesn't soak in it will at least protect a bit when I shampoo and I might revisit low poos for the ocasional wash.

Failing that, it might have to be a swim cap...

Moroccan Oil doesn't condition hair, it doesn't contain any water based ingredients so cannot 'reset' the pH of the hair after shampooing, no fatty alcohols or cationic surfactants nor humectants. It will certainly make your hair feel nice because it's loaded with silicones and other unpronounceable chemicals, I suspect it contains barely any argan oil which is the only ingredient that does anything much for hair.

Which low poos were you trying? Many are loaded with unnecessary ingredients, you might get on better with a simple sulphate free shampoo 'base' (intended to have fragrances, oils or other ingredients added but you don't have to so nothing that can possibly build up) ideally with a pH around 4.5 to 5.5 which will encourage the cuticle to lie flat.

Sometimes build up is partly a function of damaged hair, ingredients overly adhering to a cuticle that is not in good shape. You should really wear a swimming cap anyway if you have any products in your hair, to stop those contaminating the pool.

PomegranateCurl 05-23-2013 09:37 AM

I hear you on the fine hair but there's a lot of good but light leave-ins out there that moisturize but don't weight down. I'd be surprised if you can't find a layering combination that works for you. What leave-ins have you tried?

Silicones can often make your hair "feel" like it's moisturized, but won't actually moisturize the hair. A lot of products that promise exotic oils are actually made up of mostly cones plus a drop of oil... that won't be enough to combat dry hair.

Alycat 05-23-2013 12:44 PM

I'm in the UK, so can't get most of the products talked about on here. I tried a very light, 'cone free conditioner from my health food shop as a leave-in but couldn't then use any product over it - or a normal conditioner under it!

I liked the look of my hair doing conditoner-only styling with it, but it felt so slimy I stopped.

I like the sound of the sufate-free base shampoo - never seen that here. Do you know the name of one I could look out for?

Today before swimming I tried a tiny dab of coconut oil on my hair, over the Moroccan Oil that was already in it, and it seemed to soak in. I wasn't left greasy anyway, so perhaps doing that will work.

I'll also try a dab of coconut as a leave-in before the Moroccan Oil - it bothers me too that it's mostly silicones but my hair just got worse and worse over the course of three years without cones and much better very quickly when I re-introduced them.

Thanks both of you for your help.

Firefox7275 05-23-2013 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alycat (Post 2173167)
I'm in the UK, so can't get most of the products talked about on here. I tried a very light, 'cone free conditioner from my health food shop as a leave-in but couldn't then use any product over it - or a normal conditioner under it!

I liked the look of my hair doing conditoner-only styling with it, but it felt so slimy I stopped.

I like the sound of the sufate-free base shampoo - never seen that here. Do you know the name of one I could look out for?

Today before swimming I tried a tiny dab of coconut oil on my hair, over the Moroccan Oil that was already in it, and it seemed to soak in. I wasn't left greasy anyway, so perhaps doing that will work.

I'll also try a dab of coconut as a leave-in before the Moroccan Oil - it bothers me too that it's mostly silicones but my hair just got worse and worse over the course of three years without cones and much better very quickly when I re-introduced them.

Thanks both of you for your help.

I am in the UK too! You definitely should be wearing a swim cap in that case, any decently managed pool here should be asking customers to water only shower before getting in the pool to remove product residues and body fat which contaminate the water. This is taught in our pool hygiene certification, which anyone doing the pool tests (every few hours) should hold.

You might try super lightweight silicone free conditioners often used for cowashing but as your main conditioner: Inecto coconut conditioner or many of the pharmacy/ supermarket own brand (the cheapest Basics/ Value type) are options. My hair is 'squeaky' clean after a co-wash with Inecto so definitely no residue or build up, it's far too light for me as a conditioner but it gets very good reviews on Amazon as such. I buy it at Bodycare or Home Bargains for ~1.50.
Inecto Pure Coconut Conditioner 500ml: Amazon.co.uk: Beauty

More expensive is CURLS Milkshake which is available at the British Curlies Curly Emporium and can be used as a light milky conditioner and/ or a light styler, you could water it down if still too heavy. They also sell Komaza Care which have some lovely products at pH 4.5 some of which are very lightweight. Options which you might read reviews on (or contact Komaza for advice, I hear they are very helpful) include the coconut hair milk, Matani repair spray (protein and ceramides), coconut curl spray.
Curly Emporium

You don't have to use a leave in if you don't want to, but not using conditioner to either wash or (rinse out) condition means you are completely missing out on a range of protective benefits, any combing or detangling you do is more likely to be damaging. Needing something so silicone heavy to have hair that looks and feels healthy suggests to me something else in your routine or lifestyle is amiss. Are you consistently meeting or exceeding ALL our government's healthy eating and living guidelines? Have you seen your family doctor about this? Are you tying your hair up a lot, a very restless sleeping, is your hair getting rubbed with a headrest in your car or workplace?

Naturallythinking have a sulphate free shampoo base, it's pH 7 tho so you'd want to reset the pH afterwards or mix with some dilute vinegar right before use. You can use as is, or add some coconut oil to try the Movie Star Method (see Long Hair Community); it definitely removes silicones. Also Soapkitchenonline is often mentioned on forums but I don't know the pH of that one. Either one if you don't like the product you could use it up as shower gel, the formula would work fine.
Shampoo SLS free Extra Mild - Naturallythinking Pure Aromatherapy and Spa
https://www.soapkitchenonline.co.uk/...T25109_01.html

Komaza Care have Moja shampoo which is pH 4.5. Not a base but some lovely ingredients, none of which should build up. It *might* remove silicones since they do have silicones in one of their products, you'd be best to ask them.

HTH!

Samanthascurlz 05-23-2013 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firefox7275 (Post 2173033)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Alycat (Post 2173025)
Thanks for your ideas - I did wonder about using coconut oil before the silicones but the problem is my hair is sooo fine I can't layer products. I can only really use a conditioner OR a styling product, not both. Which is why the silicone-containing Moroccan Oil I use is so good, it both conditions and styles.

I can't do CG for the same reason - tried for three years and my hair was horrible - even low poos give me build-up within two washes and I get less curl rather than more.

I think I'm going to try using the coconut as a pre-poo even if I've got silicones in my hair, if it doesn't soak in it will at least protect a bit when I shampoo and I might revisit low poos for the ocasional wash.

Failing that, it might have to be a swim cap...

Moroccan Oil doesn't condition hair, it doesn't contain any water based ingredients so cannot 'reset' the pH of the hair after shampooing, no fatty alcohols or cationic surfactants nor humectants. It will certainly make your hair feel nice because it's loaded with silicones and other unpronounceable chemicals, I suspect it contains barely any argan oil which is the only ingredient that does anything much for hair.


Which low poos were you trying? Many are loaded with unnecessary ingredients, you might get on better with a simple sulphate free shampoo 'base' (intended to have fragrances, oils or other ingredients added but you don't have to so nothing that can possibly build up) ideally with a pH around 4.5 to 5.5 which will encourage the cuticle to lie flat.

Sometimes build up is partly a function of damaged hair, ingredients overly adhering to a cuticle that is not in good shape. You should really wear a swimming cap anyway if you have any products in your hair, to stop those contaminating the pool.

I second this because when I got my hair cut last time, the stylist gave me a free sample of argan oil. I know thats not moroccan but I remember looking at the ingredients and dimethicone was second in the list. So I agree with firefox.

Alycat 05-24-2013 04:40 AM

Thanks for the suggestions Firefox - I'll see what I can find. I did try the Inecto coconut stuff - very moisturising but WAY too heavy for my hair, it left me looking flat and greasy.

And I gave up the idea of co-washing after one wash when I realised that, never mind washing with a conditioner, I hadn't ever been able to wash with a 'normal' shampoo formulated for dry hair without my hair falling flat.

I don't think a dab of Moroccan Oil in my hair constitutes enough product to need to wear a swim cap to protect the rest of the world from it, but I take your point.

This morning I skipped the MO and rinsed out my usual conditioner and then used a tiny amount as a LI and my hair looks and feels pretty good - there's no slimy feel with this one, so I'm going to keep experimenting with it.

Alycat 05-24-2013 11:59 AM

I've been thinking about everything you've all said and I think you may be right that the Moroccan Oil isn't as moisturising as I thought. It was fine before I started swimming, but I do need more moisture now.

I'm going to pull out the very light, 'cone-free conditioner I used in my CG days and see how that does under the MO. If that works I might try with my heavier conditioner too

Thanks for the ideas!


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:12 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2011 NaturallyCurly.com