curl falls out...so frustrated

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  • 1 Post By Lynaea

I have fine hair, normal porosity and normal elasticitity, normal-thick density. My hair lays flat on my head with frizz and the curl falling out no matter what I seem to do. I have a good cut that is above my shoulders. Things seem to have gotten worse after having a baby, breastfeeding, losing 65 pounds, and having surgery in March. Any of those things may have been affecting my hair. I have tried Deva products and all the gels seem to weigh my hair down. Herbal Essences set me up, same problem. If I co-wash, its very limp and flat so low sulfate shampoo on a regular basis used to be the thing that did the trick for me. I have been trying curl junkie products thinking my hair needs protein and no luck there either. I have been using the CCCC lite cream and curl queen gel. I like them better than the Deva since my hair doesn't seem to have a greasy residue with them, but the curl still falls right out of my hair after an hour. Are these gels just too heavy for my hair? Is there a gel out there that is very very lightweight that will still hold curl? Or do I just need to ride out the hormonal changes?
I don't know if it will keep the curl in as it doesn't have much hold but I like flax seed gel as it doesn't weigh down my fine hair....
It sounds like your curl pattern has changed and you're trying to make it do something that it just can't do any more. Do you have any before and after pictures? What curl pattern were you, and what do you think you might be now, perhaps people can help you make the most of how your hair is now

That's not to say your hair may not go back to its previous pattern after some time, but it really comes down to whether you want to keep fighting it

Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using CurlTalk App
2C, Medium thickness, Low posity
Recovering from a year of keratin and bleach with CG

Routine

Low Poo, Condition, Leave in, Curl cream, Supersoak, Gel, Diffuse on high heat, with minimal lift to encourage waves and reduce frizz, Dry on cool with nozzle down to smooth hair and finish drying,Shine Serum

Weekly gelatin protien treatments.
I understand where you are coming from. Hormones and a surgery seem to be what brought waves to my straight hair in the first place. I have similar properties to you and I have had great luck with the gelatin PT.
I also have success with using my products on soaking wet hair and then diffusing so it doesn't fall flat. The gel I use is a hard hold gel but it scrunches out well and my waves/curls last for a couple days.
I agree with Yoshimi though, pictures would help.
Fine texture
Low/ Med porosity
Med density

Wash: SM MR, GTTT
RO: SM MR, GTTT
LI: SM CSM or SM MR
Styling:AVG, KCCC, Volumax MEGA (HG), Joico Curl Definer
You may wanted do a "reset" on your hair. Clarify it with a clarifying treatment or a cone free sulfate poo. Follow up with a DT, preferably one with a little protein.

Then start adding regular PT's and DT's to your routine, as well as sealing moisture in with an oil. (Put a few drops of oil into you hair, concentrating on the ends, before applying products.)

Technique can be a HUGE factor, so you might read through the techniques and try switching it up. Do you plop? Diffuse? Etc.

Certainly many of those things can change your hair - as can plain old aging. And it's true you pattern may just be different now. But it's possible you are over-conditioned, have build-up, need more protein, etc. Those are all common issues with fine hair, so you may have some luck with fixing those things!

Good luck!
2c/3a/3b, Fine/med, Dense, high porous, & normal elas.

Lo-poo - Renpure Keratin, SMR, Giovanni SaS
clarifying - mix Johnson's H2T with low poo
Co-wash - Suave Nats. clar. or coco.
RO - GVPCB, Ion Eff. Care, TN.
LI - SMR, Cure Care, or RO
Seal - MO or Jojoba
DT - + honey, ACV, & EVOO to SM masque & GVPCB
PT - Gelatin!, CNPF
Styling - FSG, AIF, BRHG, LALS/PS, GF curl spray gel, SM Souffle/Smoothie, LOOB
Oils - MO!, EVOO, jojoba, GSO, SM Elixer, EVCO, VO5 Hairdressing
curl falls out...so frustrated-imageuploadedbycurltalk1369496028.392710.jpg
This is my hair today.i washed after my long run. i used Shea moisture curl and shine shampoo, KCKT and rinsed it out. Applied curl junkie CCCC lite to soaking hair and then some curl junkie curl queen. Plopped using a t-shirt then diffused. Ill try to post how it looks in a few hours
Maybe you need lighter weight products, not to concentrate so much on moisturising? I don't know how much butter and oil is in that shampoo but shea is rather heavy. Maybe you don't need a curl cream and a gel, just a gel? The cream seems rich in humectants and contains some oils too. The gel is also packed with humectants. Also there is a (water soluble) silicone in the Curl Junkie, even a little pulls out my curl.

Perhaps try switching out one product at a time and see how you fare?
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect
Rats I thought curl queen didnt have humectants. What is a lightweight gel that wouldn't have humectants? I used the Shea moisture shampoo because of the protein but it looks the same if I use the curl junkie daily fix too.
I still think you need more protein!

Do you know your hair properties, specifically porosity?
2c/3a/3b, Fine/med, Dense, high porous, & normal elas.

Lo-poo - Renpure Keratin, SMR, Giovanni SaS
clarifying - mix Johnson's H2T with low poo
Co-wash - Suave Nats. clar. or coco.
RO - GVPCB, Ion Eff. Care, TN.
LI - SMR, Cure Care, or RO
Seal - MO or Jojoba
DT - + honey, ACV, & EVOO to SM masque & GVPCB
PT - Gelatin!, CNPF
Styling - FSG, AIF, BRHG, LALS/PS, GF curl spray gel, SM Souffle/Smoothie, LOOB
Oils - MO!, EVOO, jojoba, GSO, SM Elixer, EVCO, VO5 Hairdressing
I tried Shea Moisture products early on and they were all heavy, we have slightly different properties but my current faves are in my siggy. I definitely recommend trying products that focus on protein rather than moisture and it will almost certainly help to cut out the CCCCL and try a HARD hold gel like BRHG or that LA Looks one .... I am having good luck with the Volumax Mega gel from Sally's.

Frizz can be caused by build-up, glycerin, too much moisture, drying to roughly or with a regular towel, ..... Unfortunately its all trial and error.
sheilacurl likes this.
2A / F / MD / LP / ?E / BSL --- CG since Dec. 2012

This is what I'm happiest with right now.
Co-wash: CJ DailyFix
Lo-poo: DermOrganic low-poo
RO: SS Caitlin's co
Leave-in: SheScentIt Okra Repair condish
PT: SS Caitlin's + SS PT
Stylers: Volumax Mega Gel, Max Green Styling Gel, DermOrganics Spray Gel
Techniques: Plopping & Pixie Diffusing.
glycerin, honey, oils & butters Protein!
Rats I thought curl queen didnt have humectants. What is a lightweight gel that wouldn't have humectants? I used the Shea moisture shampoo because of the protein but it looks the same if I use the curl junkie daily fix too.
Originally Posted by easpurk
Humectants include propylene glycol, aloe vera, glycerin and honey/ agave.

IMO get your protein from products you apply after you shampoo or in the form of treatments, you wash most water soluble ingredients away anyway. Or you could add hydrolysed protein to any product you choose if you purchase the Colorful Neutral Protein Filler.

You might research products like Jessicurl gentle lather shampoo and Rockin Ringlets (magnesium sulphate, flaxseed), or Komaza Care Moja shampoo (pH 4.5) and Matani repair treatment spray (protein, ceramides, panthenol).

You might be fine continuing to use your Curl Queen if you reduce the oils and humectants elsewhere in the routine, it's changing the balance of protein to moisture that is often important.
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect
frustrating, Curl Queen was advertised as glycerin free, thats why I bought it. Glycerin was not listed on the bottle either. It really is trial and error....and a lot of money.
I still think you need more protein!

Do you know your hair properties, specifically porosity?
Originally Posted by Jas76
Yes, I did the little test where you send your hair sample in. I have fine hair, normal porosity, normal elasticity. I chose the curl junkie products by looking at recommendations for fine hair and trying to find protein. I will try protein treatments.
frustrating, Curl Queen was advertised as glycerin free, thats why I bought it. Glycerin was not listed on the bottle either. It really is trial and error....and a lot of money.
Originally Posted by easpurk
Aloe is the humectant. I don't think there is glycerin in it.

I agree with trying a hard hold gel like LA Looks Sports Gel.
Fine Texture, Normal Porosity, Normal Elasticity. Dyed to brown a few months ago.
Lowpoo:
Trader Joe's TTT Shampoo
Rinse Out:
Yes to Carrots, AOHR, Aubrey Organics Rosemary Peppermint
LI: Yes to Carrots
Stylers: Shea Moisture Curl Enhancing Smoothie, LA Looks Sports, Suave Professionals Captivating Curls Whipped Mousse

Last edited by rainboe; 05-25-2013 at 08:45 PM.
In my experience not all humectants are created equally and they are really only a problem in products you leave on your hair. For me glycerin causes major poof-head, honey causes halo/canopy frizz (maybe agave too) and I don't seem to have issues with aloe.

My hair would not hold a decent wave until I got the protein - moisture balance right and started using a hard hold gel. I would expect that doing both those things will also help with your frizz. Fine hair generally cannot take a lot of product so it could partly be your LI's overpowering the gel. CCCCL is loaded with oils, butters and humectants it is almost certainly not 'light' enough for fine hair.

You might also check out this thread, the replies might help you too.
Can dry hair be soft to touch?
2A / F / MD / LP / ?E / BSL --- CG since Dec. 2012

This is what I'm happiest with right now.
Co-wash: CJ DailyFix
Lo-poo: DermOrganic low-poo
RO: SS Caitlin's co
Leave-in: SheScentIt Okra Repair condish
PT: SS Caitlin's + SS PT
Stylers: Volumax Mega Gel, Max Green Styling Gel, DermOrganics Spray Gel
Techniques: Plopping & Pixie Diffusing.
glycerin, honey, oils & butters Protein!
frustrating, Curl Queen was advertised as glycerin free, thats why I bought it. Glycerin was not listed on the bottle either. It really is trial and error....and a lot of money.
Originally Posted by easpurk
As I said in my last post humectants include propylene glycol, aloe vera and honey/ agave not simply glycerin. Both your curl junkie products are high in aloe as well as containing other humectants. You don't have to avoid all humectants, agree totally with Lynae that aloe is a much weaker humectant than glycerin.

My point was your balance may be off, you have a lot of humectants AND oils AND fatty alcohols in the curl cream which together may be overly moisturising. Not so much in the way of curl boosters, hydrolysed protein and hard hold ingredients to balance that out. It may be you only need to change out one product to get a better balance. Hair doesn't have to love or loathe or crave or be sensitive to ingredients or families, it can do well with them in moderation and within a balanced routine.

It doesn't have to be solely trial and error nor expensive either, you don't have to purchase pricey curly brands it can all be done from the drugstore and grocery store or by purchasing product 'bases' and doctoring them. Any sulphate free base or silicone free conditioner 'base' you disliked could be used up as shower gel, body lotion or shave cream. You can also purchase sample sizes from companies themselves or from KathyMack, or sell or swap your part used old products.

The key is to understand your hair properties, then understand ingredients. Look at the whole formula, especially the first five ingredients which are the bulk of the product. Quite a few of the branded lines were originally formulated with 'black' hair in mind, which tends to be dryer, less often fine and with a much stronger curl pattern than your hair is. That means moisturising products are likely are quite moisturising and some may be heavy so pick carefully.

There are excellent science-based articles on ingredients here on NC by 'curl chemist' Tonya McKay and also on the Natural Haven blog. You can also try certain ingredients by making up blends at home - glycerin, honey, gelatin, white vinegar, coconut olive and palm fruit oils are all cheap as are pH strips. A decent quality aloe vera gel or flaxseeds may be more expensive, but all of these ingredients you can use up either on your skin or in food if your hair hates them.
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect

Last edited by Firefox7275; 05-26-2013 at 07:29 AM.
curl falls out...so frustrated-imageuploadedbycurltalk1370093225.189440.jpg
Maybe protein is the answer? I did two protein treatments this week using Sally's k-pack and the only product is the beyond zone noodle head moose. It SEEMS curlier to me.
I think it's very curly!!! Does it stay in better?
You can see my wavy tutorials here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...ZNxhBHSXAW40OQ and my wavy blog is The Wavy Nation http://wavynation.wordpress.com
It looks like there's less frizz too.
I hope it held up, if not definitely try the Volumax Mega gel from Sally's, its about $7, I get shiny waves that hold all day with minimal frizz (and I live in Florida).
2A / F / MD / LP / ?E / BSL --- CG since Dec. 2012

This is what I'm happiest with right now.
Co-wash: CJ DailyFix
Lo-poo: DermOrganic low-poo
RO: SS Caitlin's co
Leave-in: SheScentIt Okra Repair condish
PT: SS Caitlin's + SS PT
Stylers: Volumax Mega Gel, Max Green Styling Gel, DermOrganics Spray Gel
Techniques: Plopping & Pixie Diffusing.
glycerin, honey, oils & butters Protein!

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