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Old 06-05-2013, 08:54 PM   #1
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Default Please help a newbie

My silicone free hair is not good I have lost the big shiny spirals and now have limp wavy hair with some frizz I switched to deva products a week ago what am I doing wrong? I use no poo and condition one and the angel gel. I am scrunching and air-drying. I tried plopping too and my curls are still yuck.

I had mostly 3a curls I think with some 2c. Now I think it is 2c wiry, limp and frizzy.

The texture of my hair is thick, I think I have coarse hair and I am not sure about porosity but my hair floated when I put it in a bowl of water and when I wash my hair it takes forever to dry, hours or the whole day if its in a ponytail. ??

Please help.

Are there water soluble silicone products I can use or something else I can try?
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Old 06-05-2013, 09:35 PM   #2
 
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You may need to ride it out for a little longer--a week isn't really long enough to judge. Silicone products seem good for your hair when they're on but they do more harm than good in the long run. Have you tried a really good deep conditioner/mask? My hair was similar to yours until I did a series of overnight coconut oil masks. My curls are the best they've been in a decade.
If your hair floats that (usually) indicates low porosity. That means your hair doesn't soak up product or anything as well as normal or high porosity. The fact that it takes your hair a long time to dry indicates that as well--your hair doesn't easily let moisture in or out. Hot oil treatments are really, really good for low p hair, but you'll need to be careful with protein with the coarseness of your hair so that your hair doesn't get straw-y. Try putting the mask/deep conditioner on and putting a hot towel over your hair or sitting under a blowdryer. The heat opens up the tight cuticles associated with low porosity.Try waiting a little bit after getting out of the shower so that your hair isn't overloaded with water. When your hair is damp as opposed to soaked, you're more likely to get the product in. If you use oil (which I highly recommend) make sure to warm it up a little bit first. Heat helps coax open the cuticles. Ecostyle Argan Oil is a good commercial one; I personally like regular old coconut oil. Try sticking with the Deva products at least for a little longer--they're fabulous and my mom (3a/b and low p) swears by them. If you're still seeing no success, try a little research into products that have worked for people with hair similar to yours. Just remember that silicone damage doesn't vanish overnight. How often are you washing your hair? I personally found that washing my hair as little as possible (not until it's absolutely gross, but until your hair starts to get greasier than you like) was super helpful. I am Caucasian, and most of my Caucasian friends wash their (straight/ slightly wavy) hair every night or every other night. I can go 5 days comfortably without washing my hair, and although I've been given horrified looks when I tell my friends that, you have to remember that hair textures are different. Curlies are unique in that the oil that's naturally produced in the glands on our scalps doesn't travel to the ends as easily as those with straighter hair. Don't be pressured into washing your hair every night because "you're supposed to." If your hair isn't typically oily, then I would shoot for every two days or so, but it all depends on what works for you.
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Recovering from TE
Products: Suave Naturals (co-wash), Kenra Moisturizing Conditioner, Fast Food (leave in), SM Curl Milk, Devacurl Light Defining Gel, coconut oil
(Product use varies according to weather, time constraints, and desired look )
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Old 06-05-2013, 10:12 PM   #3
 
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Thanks Kayleigh I will do a coconut oil treatment today and get a deep conditioner. Thanks for helping me define the porosity it makes sense now that my hair wouldn't absorb product well if my hair has low porosity.

I wash my hair every two days due to having to look presentable for work. I haven't mastered second day hair let alone 3rd day hair lol and I am useless at styling up dos ect. I'll stick with the deva curl products until I have tried to put moisture back in.

I have another dumb question though. When using sulphate free shampoo or no poo it says to use agitation to cleanse hair but doesn't that damage hair?
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Old 06-05-2013, 10:53 PM   #4
 
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I agree, you need to ride it out longer than that. And don't be discouraged if a coconut oil treatment doesn't work for you. Its going to be a tough journey, but focus on adding moisture to your hair and scrunching gel in to minimize frizz.

Also, I CO wash my 2B thick, coarse hair every 2-3 days. I started getting spirals about 6 months into my CO routine.
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-Dense head of med-coarse strands
-Low porosity

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Old 06-06-2013, 05:18 AM   #5
 
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Thank you I have done a EVOO treatment and I went through my cupboards for a deep treatment and I have absolutely nothing that is silicon free other than the deva curl. I have placed an order for some more silicon free products and will attempt to stick with this and get moisture in there. This is what I ordered, any opinions would be great. I am getting confused as I am reading peoples signatures and can't understand the abbreviations of products plus I am in Australia so some of these products aren't available.

Ordered:

Curly Hair Solutions Curl Keeper

Kinky-Curly Knot Today

Kinky-Curly Curling Custard

Curl Junkie Curl Rehab Moisturizing Hair Treatment

Karen's Body Beautiful Sweet Ambrosia Leave-In Conditioner

Jane Carter Solution Wrap & Roll

Jane Carter Solution Nourish & Shine


Thanks
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Old 06-06-2013, 05:31 AM   #6
 
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Are you sure you're truly coarse? Indications would be your hair doesn't bend easily, feels wiry, feels substantial when you rub a strand between your thumb and pointer finger?

What is your climate like where you live? Is it hot and humid now, or hot and dry?
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Cleanse: CJ Daily Fix, JC Cleansing Cream, TJ Tea Tree Condish
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Old 06-06-2013, 05:59 AM   #7
 
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Many of us start out with Deva, think we like it and then move on to other things. My hair prefers the more natural products from the online, boutique type companies. I stay away from a lot of chemicals, especially polyquats.

The float test is notoriously unreliable. The best way to tell porosity is to run your fingers from tip to roots, if it is smooth and possibly squeaks--it's low porosity. Your drying time is also an indicator of low porosity. Here's a link to Marsha's (CJ) blog that shows pictures of hair texture Curl Junkie - Natural Hair Care for all types of Curly Hair!: My 2 cents on Protein/Texture/Porosity/Moisture Balance! :-) The greatest % of curly hair is fine (I forget the number) and coarse happens, but not that much.

My fine/low porosity hair doesn't care for straight oil/butter, but likes it in well formulated products.
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HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic; Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me
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Old 06-06-2013, 06:20 AM   #8
 
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You haven't mastered CG because it's only been a week, your hair and skills will hopefully be changing for some time to come. Also it can be a real shock for some of us to experience the true condition of our hair when not coated in silicones which impart faux shine and slip.

Choose products based on the ingredients suitability for your hair properties, condition and dew points/ humidity, don't randomly purchase products that suit others. Do you protect your hair from incidental exposure to the Australian sun? Any UV exposure can cause damage, increase dryness and porosity.

Recommend reading the stickies on each board, the abbreviations are there. Also recommend reading the articles by 'curl chemist' Tonya McKay on the main NC site, she explains ingredients and other relevant scientific issues in plain English.

There is a good book on styling curly hair plus easy how tos on YouTube
Strictly Curls: A Step-by-step Guide to Styling Curly Hair: Nicole Siri: 9780976350644: Amazon.com: Books
5 Basic Hairstyles... - YouTube
waterlily716 - curly hair & beauty @:-) - YouTube

Yes friction when cleansing (shampoo or co-washing) damages the hair over the long term, along with brushing and combing and other mechanical damage it's known as 'weathering'. But the harsh surfactants in commercial shampoo also damage hair, they are capable of dissolving the lipids (fats) that glues the protective cuticle layer together. Many of us have a history of using way too much harsh shampoo and way too little (gentle) massage to cleanse our hair effectively, so switching to co-washing can be quite a change. I wash upside down so I can get to my scalp, use a pile of cheap conditioner so I get a light lather, comb my fingers alternately over the scalp at the roots I don't scrub roughly at my head in circles.
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2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG, growing out mechanical and chemical damage = breakage and very high porosity. Past armpit length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut
Treatments: Komaza Matani, coconut oil, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss ultimate volume, Inecto argan
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Boots Essentials gel
Experimenting with: going back to basics
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Old 06-06-2013, 07:12 AM   #9
 
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Hi Chloe its going into winter here so some rain cooler weather. I think my hair is a mixture of coarse and medium hair. It does often feel wiry and like nylon.
My hair takes hours to dry and is smooth running my finger up the shaft and squeaks.

Thanks Firefox for the links I have a lot of reading to do and have already overwhelmed myself with info today lol.

Kathy Mack what are polyquats? What do I look out for on the ingredients list?

What is the difference between low poo and no poo?

Thanks
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Trying Deva products.
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Old 06-06-2013, 07:27 AM   #10
 
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You may find the glycerin in Deva doesn't suit in very wet or very dry weather, dew points and humidity are important when choosing products.

Articles here on NaturallyCurly, the earlier links were videos and a book
Polyquats as Conditioning Agents
Humidity, Humectants and Hair
Is Glycerin Good for Your Hair?
Also see the stickies on the newbies and other boards, all the basic questions are answered.
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2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG, growing out mechanical and chemical damage = breakage and very high porosity. Past armpit length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut
Treatments: Komaza Matani, coconut oil, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss ultimate volume, Inecto argan
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Boots Essentials gel
Experimenting with: going back to basics
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Old 06-06-2013, 07:28 AM   #11
 
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Kathymack that was a very good link I had a look at the strands and I think I am about a 7 in coarseness some hairs are finer though and the ends that have had chemical treatment are not as coarse either. Thanks for the link.
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Trying Deva products.
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Old 06-06-2013, 07:50 AM   #12
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by liquefiedstars View Post

Kathy Mack what are polyquats? What do I look out for on the ingredients list?

What is the difference between low poo and no poo?

Thanks
polyquat=polyquaternium It's usually followed by a number.

Difference between a lowpoo and a nopoo is usually the surfactants (detergents.) However, a product can be called anything the manufacturer wants to call it. Some cleansing conditioners have mild surfactant (coco b) and others don't. The manufacturer decided to call them cleansing conditioner instead of nopoo.
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3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
modified CG, since April '07
CG since 3/11/08

SE PA

HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic; Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me
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Old 06-07-2013, 10:40 PM   #13
 
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Thanks KathyMack so does low boo have cleansers that are not sulphates?

Well my hair did not really like the olive oil I had oily wiry hair, I have got it out and the products I am using do seem to just sit on my hair and my hair feels tacky and wiry. Also the top layer of my hair has gone straightish and frizzy

I have coconut oil here which I will try before my products arrive. I have too wait as postage from the states to Australia will probably take two weeks.
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Coarse/medium
Low Porosity
Trying Deva products.
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Old 06-08-2013, 05:02 AM   #14
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by liquefiedstars View Post
Thanks KathyMack so does low boo have cleansers that are not sulphates?

Well my hair did not really like the olive oil I had oily wiry hair, I have got it out and the products I am using do seem to just sit on my hair and my hair feels tacky and wiry. Also the top layer of my hair has gone straightish and frizzy

I have coconut oil here which I will try before my products arrive. I have too wait as postage from the states to Australia will probably take two weeks.
Not having sulfates is the "definition" of lowpoo.

Since you have low porosity hair, the oil "thing" might not be for you. I NEVER put straight oil (or butter) on my hair for anything. It would sit for days until I did something to get it out.
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3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
modified CG, since April '07
CG since 3/11/08

SE PA

HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic; Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me
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