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-   -   When you determine your hair/curl type do you base it off of naked or styled hair? (http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/general-discussion-about-curly-hair/159185-when-you-determine-your-hair-curl-type-do-you-base-off-naked-styled-hair.html)

kaykre 06-10-2013 09:34 AM

When you determine your hair/curl type do you base it off of naked or styled hair?
 
I understand the curl types, texture, etc but when everyone says they're 2b, 3a, 4c, etc what is it based on? Your hair in its natural, product free, unscrunched, undiffused state? Or your hair styled to its "curl potential" with product, scrunching, techniques, etc?

Corrina777 06-10-2013 09:44 AM

Technically hair should be naked (no styling products) and air dried, but considering that curl pattern is really only important to consider for cuts and actual hair styles, I think naked hair defeats the purpose. And I'm sure plenty of people post styled pics when asking for opinions on curl type, so unless your hair is obviously brushed out, I don't think the CG police will make an issue of it :)

Always@night 06-10-2013 09:49 AM

Personally, its what my hair looks like naked and dry.

Firefox7275 06-10-2013 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaykre (Post 2178806)
I understand the curl types, texture, etc but when everyone says they're 2b, 3a, 4c, etc what is it based on? Your hair in its natural, product free, unscrunched, undiffused state? Or your hair styled to its "curl potential" with product, scrunching, techniques, etc?

Typing should be done on naked air dried hair, it matters a lot more for those with a weak curl/ wave pattern than those for a strong curl pattern - many 2s have their waves pulled right out by wet combing or towel turbanning for example. I did type my own hair after lightly scrunching some water out so my hair is not dripping, but I see that as just 'balancing out' the stretching effect of being completed soaked with water.

TartNTangy 06-10-2013 10:52 AM

I styled, but took a picture at the end of the day to see how my waves held up (2B). While I think its important to do it naked, I know for a fact my hair does not look like it usually does (frizzy, undefined, poofy, etc.).

I tried going without product one day and as soon as my mom saw me, "what happened to your hair?"

anonymous_133347 06-10-2013 10:58 AM

I personally do it styled because that's how I wear my hair 99% of the time. With some leave in and gelly in it. Plus I figure when it's styled the curls are all clumped together reflecting my pattern at its best. I do do naked hair tests though to see what my curl pattern does unassisted. Naked I'm mostly 2C with a 3A underlayer at the nape. With leave in and gelly I'm a 2C-3B mix and mostly 3A. But if you haven't already figure out your properties first. Curl pattern (especially for looser or wavy-curlies) is so arbitrary. It can vary day by day. Change because of the weather, the products, the way you've styled your hair.

Jessiebanana 06-10-2013 11:31 AM

Naked, but my curl type doesn't look different styled. I think styled hair is manipulated, just like straightening so I would say your curl patter needs to be based off of naked hair.

awelcome 06-10-2013 11:58 AM

I typed mine styled I guess, but I conditioner only style so I feel like it's a pretty good indication of my true pattern with or without since it doesn't enhance curl or anything, and I imagine with gels or whatever I could look curlier.

anonymous_133347 06-10-2013 12:36 PM

Hmmm. . . interesting. I bet if we took a poll most of the wavycurlies would say styled and the kinkycurlies naked. I have a bone to pick though--I don't think generally styled hair (read: a bit of product and scrunching) is as "manipulated" as straightened hair. For most of us (speaking for wavy-curlies, sorry for being your unofficial spokeswoman guys) it takes intense heat to make our hair straight and just a bit of coaxing to define the curl. We're not encouraging anything our hair wouldn't do naturally, essentially.

Jessiebanana 06-10-2013 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dusalocks (Post 2178881)
Hmmm. . . interesting. I bet if we took a poll most of the wavycurlies would say styled and the kinkycurlies naked. I have a bone to pick though--I don't think generally styled hair (read: a bit of product and scrunching) is as "manipulated" as straightened hair. For most of us (speaking for wavy-curlies, sorry for being your unofficial spokeswoman guys) it takes intense heat to make our hair straight and just a bit of coaxing to define the curl. We're not encouraging anything our hair wouldn't do naturally, essentially.

:dontknow: Some people admit to some pretty intense routines than were more involved than their pre-CG lives. I think if you have to plop for 20 minutes and apply all these gels to preserve it, you are creating some curls. No shame in the game though. It's no different that a type 4 doing a twist out.

Firefox7275 06-10-2013 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dusalocks (Post 2178881)
Hmmm. . . interesting. I bet if we took a poll most of the wavycurlies would say styled and the kinkycurlies naked. I have a bone to pick though--I don't think generally styled hair (read: a bit of product and scrunching) is as "manipulated" as straightened hair. For most of us (speaking for wavy-curlies, sorry for being your unofficial spokeswoman guys) it takes intense heat to make our hair straight and just a bit of coaxing to define the curl. We're not encouraging anything our hair wouldn't do naturally, essentially.

It depends what products and styling, a diffuser artificially supports the hair such that my weakest underlayers can really bounce up, with magnesium sulphate and a hard hold gel I can 'gain' two levels which lasts for a night out but no longer. To me defining the curl is a different animal to increasing it, conditioner only just defines or controls frizz a little.

With wet brushing and towel turbanning I can easily 'lose' two levels, to many people THAT is styled. Anyway typing is not a comparison to flat ironing, it's trying to see what is there naturally, if a curl falls right back out again maybe it's not there?

Always@night 06-10-2013 01:26 PM

I would say that there is more manipulation in straightening than just scrunching, plus I believe there is no way to make your hair "curlier" with products. I think it just enhances what your hair can naturally do. My hair curl pattern does't change without products, but it sure is frizzer.
For example, if your hair isn't moisturized and is dry, and your curls appear limp. Does adding a moisturizer or product to your hair change the way your curls may appear? Yes (giving it spring and bounce) , but does that mean the hair cannot naturally do that on it's own if it were moisturized? I don't think so.

Jessiebanana 06-10-2013 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Always@night (Post 2178898)
I would say that there is more manipulation in straightening than just scrunching, plus I believe there is no way to make your hair "curlier" with products. I think it just enhances what your hair can naturally do. My hair curl pattern does't change without products, but it sure is frizzer.
For example, if your hair isn't moisturized and is dry, and your curls appear limp. Does adding a moisturizer or product to your hair change the way your curls may appear? Yes (giving it spring and bounce) , but does that mean the hair cannot naturally do that on it's own if it were moisturized? I don't think so.

I'm not saying it's more or even the same, but it's still manipulation. I'm also not speaking of creating waves or curls from stick straight hair, this is about creating more curl from people who have some texture to their hair.

Meera 06-10-2013 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dusalocks (Post 2178881)
Hmmm. . . interesting. I bet if we took a poll most of the wavycurlies would say styled and the kinkycurlies naked. I have a bone to pick though--I don't think generally styled hair (read: a bit of product and scrunching) is as "manipulated" as straightened hair. For most of us (speaking for wavy-curlies, sorry for being your unofficial spokeswoman guys) it takes intense heat to make our hair straight and just a bit of coaxing to define the curl. We're not encouraging anything our hair wouldn't do naturally, essentially.

I agree, I base mine off of styled as well. My hair is 3c hair, & when naked & air dryed, its so frizzy you can't tell what it is. (I'm exaggerating a little) but honestly. Even while wet & naked I have a little frizz, but its the same curl pattern. My hair just needs product for clumps, even if its just conditioner.

Meera 06-10-2013 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jessiebanana (Post 2178888)
Quote:

Originally Posted by dusalocks (Post 2178881)
Hmmm. . . interesting. I bet if we took a poll most of the wavycurlies would say styled and the kinkycurlies naked. I have a bone to pick though--I don't think generally styled hair (read: a bit of product and scrunching) is as "manipulated" as straightened hair. For most of us (speaking for wavy-curlies, sorry for being your unofficial spokeswoman guys) it takes intense heat to make our hair straight and just a bit of coaxing to define the curl. We're not encouraging anything our hair wouldn't do naturally, essentially.

:dontknow: Some people admit to some pretty intense routines than were more involved than their pre-CG lives. I think if you have to plop for 20 minutes and apply all these gels to preserve it, you are creating some curls. No shame in the game though. It's no different that a type 4 doing a twist out.

I have to disagree with this. There is no way to create a curl that is not present, even if the hair has texture. A lot of products will say on their package that they do not create a curl that is not already present, they just enhance it. People with naturally straight hair can not put a product in their hair & expect a curl to form, just as most 4c textured ladies and gentleman can not put a product in their hair & expect a curl to form.

anonymous_133347 06-10-2013 02:13 PM

Yes, but I don't use magnesium sulphate as I've heard it's very drying. I'm sure a lot us don't for the same reason. And a lot of us air dry. I'm sure there are some whose styling routines are very involved but honestly, I think they're just wasting their time. It's not going to change anything. If you can get your hair to look 2C for a few hours but it's not there at the end of the day, that to me seems like too much time and effort. Unless it's a special occasion like a wedding or a date and you feel like something new. . .

The point is your curl pattern is your curl pattern. If you manage to get it to the point you bump your hair "up" a level, it doesn't mean your hair isn't going to loosen by the end of the day, like you said. A curl that isn't truly there will fall out and in order to get it back, you might have to rewet and style all over again. That's too much trouble and deep down, we know that. And I think all of us figure out soon enough what our curl pattern generally is. When I say you know what your curl pattern is when you see it "styled", I'm talking about an average--what you tend to see day in and day out, even regardless of weather, styling, and product, your hair is gonna look more or less like this. Since curl pattern, especially with my hair type is highly variable depending on what you do to it, I think this is the best measure.

When I first started CG I was so excited by these sharpie size curls that sprung up around my neck. I figured with time I might be a 3B, but it didn't take me long to realize, nope. Dusa, you're crazy. That is not my hair. 3Bs have super tight curls and strong root curl. (I think Music Junkie is a great example of what a true 3B looks like.) Their hair tends to be much more uniform in its pattern. And even if I were to take curl formers and go, oh hey, look at what my hair can do--that is not gonna be the case. So I know that my hair is a hodgepodge of different textures, wavy and curly, but that it will look mostly 3A so long as it's well moisturized and I use enough product to clump it. That is my so-called "type" because my hair, more or less, always looks the same.

I think a lot of wavy-curlies fall into a spectrum where we can wear our hair looser and unassisted, but it's gonna look like a big old bush. But with a modicum of assistance, it will be defined (not enhanced), but gathered together so it's not all helter skelter. I'm sure that's how most of us feel the first time we realize, oh my God, this is what my hair is supposed to look like. No wonder it looked so terrible before. Because it wasn't clumped. I know that's how I felt back in November when I first did CG! And now I'm helping my mother with her waves at the moment and the first time I got her to air dry with just leave in and gelly she was so astonished. She said, "This is the first time in my life my hair looks flat and not so not bushy." And to me I felt that it was the first time in her life she saw her hair in its natural state. I might be wrong. . . but I think I'm not.

Anyways, thanks, for the votes of confidence, ladies. Good to know I'm not alone. Yeah my hair without product frizzier than without. Although you know it gets less and less frizzy and more defined as time goes on. It may still be recovering from a lot of what I deem "manipulation", read: brushing, blow-drying and flat irons.

Always@night 06-10-2013 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jessiebanana (Post 2178900)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Always@night (Post 2178898)
I would say that there is more manipulation in straightening than just scrunching, plus I believe there is no way to make your hair "curlier" with products. I think it just enhances what your hair can naturally do. My hair curl pattern does't change without products, but it sure is frizzer.
For example, if your hair isn't moisturized and is dry, and your curls appear limp. Does adding a moisturizer or product to your hair change the way your curls may appear? Yes (giving it spring and bounce) , but does that mean the hair cannot naturally do that on it's own if it were moisturized? I don't think so.

I'm not saying it's more or even the same, but it's still manipulation. I'm also not speaking of creating waves or curls from stick straight hair, this is about creating more curl from people who have some texture to their hair.

I also was not speaking of creating waves or curls from straight hair. I only believe we can enhance curl with products not create them(with product alone)

Meera 06-10-2013 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dusalocks (Post 2178913)
Yes, but I don't use magnesium sulphate as I've heard it's very drying. I'm sure a lot us don't for the same reason. And a lot of us air dry. I'm sure there are some whose styling routines are very involved but honestly, I think they're just wasting their time. It's not going to change anything. If you can get your hair to look 2C for a few hours but it's not there at the end of the day, that to me seems like too much time and effort. Unless it's a special occasion like a wedding or a date and you feel like something new. . .

The point is your curl pattern is your curl pattern. If you manage to get it to the point you bump your hair "up" a level, it doesn't mean your hair isn't going to loosen by the end of the day, like you said. A curl that isn't truly there will fall out and in order to get it back, you might have to rewet and style all over again. That's too much trouble and deep down, we know that. And I think all of us figure out soon enough what our curl pattern generally is. When I say you know what your curl pattern is when you see it "styled", I'm talking about an average--what you tend to see day in and day out, even regardless of weather, styling, and product, your hair is gonna look more or less like this. Since curl pattern, especially with my hair type is highly variable depending on what you do to it, I think this is the best measure.

When I first started CG I was so excited by these sharpie size curls that sprung up around my neck. I figured with time I might be a 3B, but it didn't take me long to realize, nope. Dusa, you're crazy. That is not my hair. 3Bs have super tight curls and strong root curl. (I think Music Junkie is a great example of what a true 3B looks like.) Their hair tends to be much more uniform in its pattern. And even if I were to take curl formers and go, oh hey, look at what my hair can do--that is not gonna be the case. So I know that my hair is a hodgepodge of different textures, wavy and curly, but that it will look mostly 3A so long as it's well moisturized and I use enough product to clump it. That is my so-called "type" because my hair, more or less, always looks the same.

I think a lot of wavy-curlies fall into a spectrum where we can wear our hair looser and unassisted, but it's gonna look like a big old bush. But with a modicum of assistance, it will be defined (not enhanced), but gathered together so it's not all helter skelter. I'm sure that's how most of us feel the first time we realize, oh my God, this is what my hair is supposed to look like. No wonder it looked so terrible before. Because it wasn't clumped. I know that's how I felt back in November when I first did CG! And now I'm helping my mother with her waves at the moment and the first time I got her to air dry with just leave in and gelly she was so astonished. She said, "This is the first time in my life my hair looks flat and not so not bushy." And to me I felt that it was the first time in her life she saw her hair in its natural state. I might be wrong. . . but I think I'm not.

Anyways, thanks, for the votes of confidence, ladies. Good to know I'm not alone. Yeah my hair without product frizzier than without. Although you know it gets less and less frizzy and more defined as time goes on. It may still be recovering from a lot of what I deem "manipulation", read: brushing, blow-drying and flat irons.

THIS. is what I'm saying lol

Firefox7275 06-10-2013 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Always@night (Post 2178898)
I would say that there is more manipulation in straightening than just scrunching, plus I believe there is no way to make your hair "curlier" with products. I think it just enhances what your hair can naturally do. My hair curl pattern does't change without products, but it sure is frizzer.
For example, if your hair isn't moisturized and is dry, and your curls appear limp. Does adding a moisturizer or product to your hair change the way your curls may appear? Yes (giving it spring and bounce) , but does that mean the hair cannot naturally do that on it's own if it were moisturized? I don't think so.

There is a way to make *some* hair types appear curlier or straighter with *some* products and it is much the same process as straightening or using a curling iron, strengthening or weakening protein bonds, drawing the water out of hair. However you can't go up or down so many levels with products alone, and I suspect this effect is way more obvious with looser wave patterns.
Magnesium Sulfate: Curly Friend or Foe?

To me moisturising/ conditioning is somewhat different. Oftentimes that returns the hair closer to the natural or virgin state (no chemical treatment, affecting colour or curl pattern), without so much of the damage and dehydration we cause in daily life. Even those of us with natural/ chemical free/ heat free hair have often used products or techniques that mean we are not truly virgin, but damaged by shampoos or brushing to distribute oils. Personally I get more definition and clumping from basic conditioners, rarely more curl as such.

PomegranateCurl 06-10-2013 02:37 PM

I think, particularly if you have a weak wave pattern and/or are in the 2s, there's no way not to manipulate your hair. If you airdry, the water weight will pull down the wave. If you play with your hair while wet/damp/drying that can upset the clumps and cause a cottony fuzz. For my hair, if I rinse my hair straight down, the weight of the water running down my hair manipulates it. If I rinse my hair while holding it up as explained in the CG handbook, am I manipulating it? Sure, but not more than the water ruining gate sight down would be manipulating my hair.

I always thought I had 2a hair, and that my scrunched 2b hair was somehow cheating. But then I realized I used to get out of the shower and flip my head around like a dog to get out excess moisture, so duh that's manipulation! That's why I had zero clumps and was very frizzy! And it looked straighter, but not in a good way at all. Now I realize my 2a look was just distressed 2b all along.

For the weaker wave patterns out there, I think a bit of scrunching without product is manipulation only to counteract the manipulation from gravity. It's not a big deal. But anyway curl pattern isn't as important as other properties.


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