Course thick beastly hair, support!

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This is more a whinge than anything, and a cry for
Help! There must be more of you out there! So I have red, thick course hair that pretty much is just a rope. I tortured it through my teenage years, making it sick and limp.. So I cut it off and let it grow out naturally. It's just about APL now, and my layers have grown out and gosh is it thick! I cant do anything, buns fall out, it's too thick for anything cute. It's always knotting up and my fingers get caught in it.. I try washing every 3 days but it's impossible to manage without daily washing, and tearing it with combs. Don't even mention putting products in it! It just matts up entirely.
How do you thick girls manage your hair, without ripping it out? I need to learn techniques that will help manage.. All I can do is braid it. It's 2A and I prefer natural methods, I'm too lazy for products and hours of styling.. I just braid it and let it dry
Welcome but I am confused, if you are too lazy for products or to spend time on your hair what can we suggest? Why do you think you need to spend hours styling? That most often denotes someone who is working against their natural hair not with it. However I don't think many women have cute hair without investing *some* time on it, mall straighties spend time with the blow fryer and flat iron and putting in extensions, the long hairs invest time patiently detangling, daily oiling or conditioning and on learning pretty protective styles.

Have you tried Spin Pins/ Hair Scroos? You might also switch away from regular hair elastics (even 'no snag' are damaging if used daily) to satin ribbons, scrunchies or suchlike. Thick hair does need to be longer for some styles, if you head over to the Long Hair Community or Untamedtresses forums they can advise on the best up dos and tools for thick armpit length hair. Options that come to mind are half ups or several smaller buns.

It sounds like your current routine may have continued to damage your hair mechanically, you might be best getting a detailed hair analysis to find out your full hair properties (porosity?) and how much needs to be trimmed and/ or going for a specialist curly haircut that can long layer your hair in the right way for curls.
Komaza Care HAIR ANALYSIS Service - Rave! - Long Hair Care Forum
Curly Hair Salons & Stylists in

Stop putting your fingers in your hair except when detangling and they won't get caught, you don't need to run your fingers through your hair that just breaks up wave patterns and makes hair frizzy. Be patient with detangling, fingers or a super wide tooth comb only, work in sections with dripping hair loaded in a slippy conditioner. Many of us don't detangle daily we leave that for next wash day, and don't expect to have tangle free hair at all times. If you have tangles in the morning, look at your nighttime routine, do a pineapple or braids at night, wear a satin bonnet or use a satin pillowcase.

Many of us here follow the Curly Girl method which is basically condition (co-wash), condition (leave in) and then condition (deep) some more, working mostly with soaking wet hair. Don't damage or roughen or frizz up your hair with harsh shampoo, brushes, most combs, cotton pillowcases, terry cotton towels, working with damp hair, touching your hair whilst drying. You would likely do best applying your products (just conditioners or stylers too) section by section so you have good coverage, maybe smoothing them on instead of scrunching.

Not sure what you mean by preferring natural methods: daily washing, commercial conditioners and combing is anything but natural. What products are you using at present? Have you read through the stickies in the Newbies board and on this board?
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect

Last edited by Firefox7275; 06-17-2013 at 06:14 AM.
My hair is coarse & thick. I keep it layered.
Salt & pepper wavy mix 2B/2C
Low to normal porosity, coarse, kinky, normal elasticity
Current favorites:
Low poo: Yes To Cukes Color Protection (the no sulfate one)
Conditioners: Renpure MPHIP, CJ Smoothing Lotion, AB LI, CJ Curl Rehab, CJ Argan/Olive, Darcy's Pumpkin
Style: FSG, BRHG
Pre-poo/DT: Conditioner with honey & coconut oil

iHerb discount code: PNQ285
Sorry for all the confusion, I had written that in a rush! Basically, by 'lazy' I mean I like to stick to simple routines, but basically I was just being silly.. What I was trying to get across was that I dont like heat styling, or commercial mousses and gels because they just feel terrible. I use sulfate free shampoo and cone free conditioner (moogoo) and I do oil weekly, but yet to find a deep conditioner I like. Im thinking about making my owl flaxseed gel, and maybe incorporating that into a spritzer. Your probably very correct in suggesting I manually damage my hair, especially when sleeping. So I'll have to look into methods of avoiding that. I think there will have to be lots of practice in my future, because i find hairstyles so challenging, but I've already learnt so much from naturally curly and long hair community (if only long hair community would let me sign up!).
Thankyou for all the advice, and I'm definitely going to look into all your suggestions..I have been looking through all the stickies and articles, and have found some things helpful and will continue on looking!
Sorry for all the confusion, I had written that in a rush! Basically, by 'lazy' I mean I like to stick to simple routines, but basically I was just being silly.. What I was trying to get across was that I dont like heat styling, or commercial mousses and gels because they just feel terrible. I use sulfate free shampoo and cone free conditioner (moogoo) and I do oil weekly, but yet to find a deep conditioner I like. Im thinking about making my owl flaxseed gel, and maybe incorporating that into a spritzer. Your probably very correct in suggesting I manually damage my hair, especially when sleeping. So I'll have to look into methods of avoiding that. I think there will have to be lots of practice in my future, because i find hairstyles so challenging, but I've already learnt so much from naturally curly and long hair community (if only long hair community would let me sign up!).
Thankyou for all the advice, and I'm definitely going to look into all your suggestions..I have been looking through all the stickies and articles, and have found some things helpful and will continue on looking!
Originally Posted by Tess321
You are being too vague, what specific products are you using at present? What shampoo and what oils? A simple but effective DIY deep conditioner is your regular conditioner plus honey plus aloe vera plus a penetrating oil like coconut.

Simply solution to styling products feeling horrible, don't run your fingers through your hair or mess about with it! That causes frizz and if done regularly (especially when wet) it mechanically damages hair. If your hair is thick and coarse you will likely need more than a weak spritz, flaxseed gel is not strong hold it's usually used straight up.

For nighttime do a pineapple or loose braid then wear a satin sleeping cap or use a satin pillowcase.
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect
What other conditioners have you tried? I ask only because I've used Moogoo in the past and find it nowhere near moisturising enough, even for my fine-ish hair.
3b in South Australia.
I'm sorry firefox, but I can't help but find your responses rude and patronising. There is no need to assume about my routines, or speak to me as if I am a naughty child, that won't stop playing with her hair. I'm sorry if my post was confusing and could be interpreted differently than that of my intentions. Just to make things clear, I was only trying to have some fun and connect to other wavies with thick, coarse hair and hear about how they personalise hair care methods for their hair. I have been 'lurking' on the website for a while, and there are alot of discussions for thin curlies than there are for thick, so I thought I would send out a probe and see how others deal with the width. I didn't mean for what was intended as plain fun to come across as ignorance.

Starmie: It isn't overly moisturising I agree, but I find it the best for my itchy scalp which is so easily irritated. I'm considering changing though, because I'm sure there are better things out there!! What did you change to?
I'm sorry firefox, but I can't help but find your responses rude and patronising. There is no need to assume about my routines, or speak to me as if I am a naughty child, that won't stop playing with her hair. I'm sorry if my post was confusing and could be interpreted differently than that of my intentions. Just to make things clear, I was only trying to have some fun and connect to other wavies with thick, coarse hair and hear about how they personalise hair care methods for their hair. I have been 'lurking' on the website for a while, and there are alot of discussions for thin curlies than there are for thick, so I thought I would send out a probe and see how others deal with the width. I didn't mean for what was intended as plain fun to come across as ignorance.
Originally Posted by Tess321
Since you cannot see my face nor hear any 'tone' in my voice it's you who is making assumptions and levelling personal insults whereas I have kept my posts on topic. I could be a patronising b1tch in one sentence if I set my mind to it, I don't need to invest time typing up lengthy responses to do it. You just made a complete stranger feel horrible when they were simply trying to be of use.

If you took the time to read around the forum you would see firstly that we don't all come from the same country so don't use the English language in the same way, secondly that my posting style is straightforward and no nonsense (even blunt!) because this earth is a wonderfully diverse place, thirdly that my posts are full of useful (and useless!) information which might suggest to any reasonable person that my overriding urge is to be helpful.

If you read further, you would discover that I badly damaged my hair mechanically and chemically, and have spent two long years growing out the worst of it. The mechanical was brushing when wet, 24/7 ponytailing and twirling my hair constantly, the latter I still have a problem with. I am hardly in a position to speak to anyone as a 'naughty child' on the subject of playing with hair, ergo you must be leaping to erroneous conclusions and reading 'tone' or intent that is simply not there.

You could just as well have read the post as straightforward and non nonsense, tongue in cheek/ having a little fun, or any one of a number of neutral or positive 'tones'. No doubt an actor reading aloud could have come up with fifteen different spins on the same few paragraphs, but you chose to assume negativity. I am truly sorry if that is the norm for you to be exposed to IRL but it is not the norm in every community,
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect
I know Firefox from another forum, and she always posts like this, which actually isn't all that different from how I post if I'm trying to impart a lot of information in a short amount of time. If you don't worry about tone, you'll find that she has some really good advice to offer.

I suspect that most of the trouble you're having is just in how you're handling your hair routine. Trying getting more moisture in your hair and detangling in the shower with a wide-toothed comb--gently!--to start off with. Having thick hair means you may need to use a LOT of conditioner. It may seem strange at first to have more moisture in your hair, but don't mistake moisturized for greasy. Most people are used to the feel of shampoo-stripped hair, and you have to adjust to something different. A few drops of oil rubbed in your palms and then distributed throughout dry hair will also help to smooth a bit.

If it's helps, my hair is very thick (5-6" ponytail). When it was past hip, I had a ton of hair; now it's just above BSL wet, and I still have a lot of hair (doesn't feel like much with 18" off, lol). Here's my routine:

Wash with Trader Joe's TTT conditioner--about 1 oz. diluted with 4 oz. water
Condition with Tresemme Naturals Moisture--two 50 cent sized blobs
I detangle with a Denman brush, and don't rinse out the Tresemme
Gently flip hair over (hold hair in a ponytail with your hand)
Apply gel--I'm experimenting with FSG, and have to use a lot; this morning I'd say I used about 2 oz. along with a quarter-sized blob of BRHG
Scrunch with flour sack towel, then plop and pixiecurl

For next day hair, I use about a dime sized amount of a mix of water, Tresemme conditioner, aloe gel, and argan oil (or camellia oil) smoothed throughout my hair. Works pretty well, although I still get frizz (good dews here, but windy).

Firefox is right that getting product in your hair, especially leave in, will help to weigh your hair down. If I just shampoo and condition, my hair just keeps expanding once it's dry. If the wind gets it without anything in it, I'm doomed.
Firefox7275 likes this.
Is your hair fine? Are the strands of your hair similar in thickness to sewing threads or barely visible?

Sent from my HTCEVOV4G using CurlTalk App
3b/c, medium-coarse, low porosity, high density
HG: Jessicurl Too Shea and Kinky Curly Curling Custard
Shampoo: nonsulfate shampoo and Suave Naturals sulfate shampoo when needed
A whole lot of conditioner. I would recommend the conditioning balm sold at Sally's. A whole lot, apply starting at the ends while soaking wet and work it up then squish, squish, squish. Clip hair up while showering. Before rinsing gently comb thoroughly with a wide comb and I mean thoroughly, then rinse.

Would love your red thick hair. Mine is thick and brunette and very wavy. I also use the GF S&S Leave in, quite a bit, and love it!
Firefox: You do have valid points, and I'm sorry for jumping to conclusions. The internet is not my strongest skill, especially when it comes to interpreting others words. Sometimes, I cannot help but stand up for myself, even if I am not being attacked in the first place. I'm glad I now know what kind of tone you write with, and can better read it in future in the forums. I felt that I had to speak my mind, with the way I was personally reading your responses. I am honestly sorry for offending you, and misreading your writing.

Multicultcurly: my individual strands are very thick, very similiar to sewing threads.

Is there any products that can be found in australia? We don't have a sally's It is very hard to get moisture here, and any moisture you do have is gone in a day. I think I am going to start using conditioner as a leave in like you guys do. I am going to have to look into what a pixie curl is, I have heard about it a couple of times now.

Thankyou for all your advice, I have alot to research and try out now!!
Firefox7275 likes this.
I use Tresemme Naturals moisturising now and really like it, but my hair is vastly different to yours (fine and thin, more's the pity). The balm from Sally's that Cubanwavy mentioned is (I believe) a knock off of a Matrix Biolage one that you can get in Hairhouse Warehouse and probably other places - I used it but it was too much for my hair on a regular basis and is pretty expensive. DeLorenzo do some cg friendly conditioners, I think the one I used to use was Allevi8 which was good but seemed to stop working for me after a while and I've heard other curlies liking Sukin's conditioner but I didn't like it much. Leave-ins are hopeless here (for me anyway) and I buy CJ's Beauticurls from Curlmart and try not to think about the postage!
I have psoriasis on my scalp which is why I tried Moogoo, so I get you on the irritation thing. I'm lucky in one respect that products don't seem to make it worse, sadly don't make it better either.
3b in South Australia.
Firefox: You do have valid points, and I'm sorry for jumping to conclusions. The internet is not my strongest skill, especially when it comes to interpreting others words. Sometimes, I cannot help but stand up for myself, even if I am not being attacked in the first place. I'm glad I now know what kind of tone you write with, and can better read it in future in the forums. I felt that I had to speak my mind, with the way I was personally reading your responses. I am honestly sorry for offending you, and misreading your writing.
Originally Posted by Tess321
Thank you, I too am sorry my no nonsense/ blunt posting style has come over so badly. I hope you will stick around the forum, it's a friendly and helpful place.

There is a techniques post in the stickies on this board which includes the pixie curl method. I think there is an Aussie curlies group on Facebook.
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect

Last edited by Firefox7275; 06-19-2013 at 08:41 AM.
It looks like you have something called Hair Warehouse? Not
Exactly the same but maybe helpful http://www.hairhousewarehouse.com.au/. Also try a thread titled "Australian curlies" and see if you can find some product recs from more local sources. It's got to be frustrating to read about stuff you can't find!
My other suggestion is YouTube (see what other coarse waives do.) and check to see if a boutique brand like Jessicurl can ship oversees. You probably need a ton of product (if you watch vids you'll see what I mean) because your hair is so thick. Watch the Jessicurl vids on YouTube. It'll give you a good idea of the technique everyone is talking about.
You can see my wavy tutorials here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...ZNxhBHSXAW40OQ and my wavy blog is The Wavy Nation http://wavynation.wordpress.com
I love hairhouse warehouse! My boyfriends mum has that shampoo and I steal it all the time :P
Dont itchy scalps just suck!
I uploaded a profile picture of my hair so you can see how thick it is I havent brushed it, washed it or styled it today so it looks quite rediculous but its good enough to show the thickness.
It sucks being a student (studying science, if only I was studying hair hehe) and being so poor! But it just means I need to put in more research before forking out the cash, because hey, my hairs worth it!
The pixie curl method looks great I'll have to give it a shot!
I am new to naturally curly, and I am so astounded by everyones support and replies! Its fantastic! I've already learnt so much, and there is still a mountain of information to climb! Thankgod its holidays so I can do some experimenting!
It's great to read you are feeling positive about experimenting and options, it's a roller coaster ride for all of us but that can be fun with friends, right?
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect
I can't see a pic. Is it just me?
3b in South Australia.
It's in her profile--if you click on her name, then "view public profile," it's there. Sorry, I'm new to this forum, so I might be stating the obvious.

Tess321, it looks like you have fairly thick hair, but it's not super thick. It does look dry, however, and I think if you can get more moisture/product in it you'll find that it's easier to manage and a lot more wavy/curly and a lot less poofy.
3a/b, F, normal porosity

Wash with either Suave Tropical Coconut, As I Am, or CJ Daily Fix
Condition with STC or Yes to Blueberries and detangle with Denman, rinse very lightly (baptismal rinse)
Add LAL gel, either Sport or Wet Look, scrunch with flour sack towel, and plop
Diffuse 5 minutes, then air dry

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