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Old 06-17-2013, 11:05 AM   #1
 
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Default Worried about my greys

My grey hair is sooo course and kinky, and not in a good way. It has no regular pattern, even after a month of CG my grey goes in wierd directions. And I'm getting so much of it lately, I'm worried that I'm going to lose my curls! I have seen some improvements in the rest of my hair, but no change in my greays. I may only be one month into CG, but I have worn my hair curly off and on my whole life, and have always worn my hair curly at least one day per week. In fact, I wore my hair curly on my first date with DH and he loves my curls!

Has anyone else had this problem with their hair as it has turned grey?
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Old 06-17-2013, 11:54 AM   #2
 
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I have two types of white hair: some baby fine stuff near my hairline that dyes to pink instead of red-pink, and some coarser unruly ones throughout. The coarse ones seem to be disguised better by being the same colour as the surrounding hair (after dye) and by any product or ingredient that controls frizz.

I find my hair a LOT easier to manage since I have grown out the worst of the uneven damage and have roughly the same porosity throughout. A major part of that was switching to a roots only colour application, also making all my products work hard for me, not just be 'one trick ponies'.

Grey hair does tend to be dryer and can be more susceptible to certain types of damage. You might try everyday conditioners that do more than just improve hydration, work on your porosity and colour damage every wash with coconut oil, ceramides and panthenol, lightweight hydrolysed protein (too much can be drying).

Have you considered switching to a roots only application of colour instead of highlights? Highlights means some parts of hair will be very porous and some much less porous because some hair remains virgin and some gets multiple applications of bleach. Plus the lights tend to be done on the top layer which is at greater risk of environmental damage/ weathering (UV, wind, brushing and combing).
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CO-wash: Inecto coconut
Treatments: Komaza Matani, coconut oil, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss ultimate volume, Inecto argan
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Boots Essentials gel
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Old 06-17-2013, 11:56 AM   #3
 
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My grays are definitely more coarse than my non-grays, but I find they're most difficult when they are newer hairs, as in they're shorter than the rest. Once they get to a certain length, they behave.
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Old 06-17-2013, 12:37 PM   #4
 
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I'm not sure my grays are coarser (my hair is pretty coarse), but when short they can definitely dry in odd directions. My hair isn't well "organized" to start with, so it doesn't make much difference to me. One this I do notice, though, is that when wet, I'll often have have little dry grays sticking out. As the rest of my hair dries, it's not as obvious.

Firefox, I wish I could figure out which products were best for my hair as well as you can. Just when I think I'm following along you throw out new ingredients (ceramides and panthenol) that I've never read about.
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Current favorites:
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Conditioners: Renpure MPHIP, CJ Smoothing Lotion, AB LI, CJ Curl Rehab, CJ Argan/Olive, Darcy's Pumpkin
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Old 06-17-2013, 01:14 PM   #5
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CurlyGrey3 View Post
Firefox, I wish I could figure out which products were best for my hair as well as you can. Just when I think I'm following along you throw out new ingredients (ceramides and panthenol) that I've never read about.
Sorry!! 18-MEA is another one you probably won't have heard of, another hair lipid that can patch repair, but it's a devil to find as an ingredient in a CG friendly product. All these ingredients are temporary lasting perhaps a few washes, you are trying to mimic the protective water resistant coating or fill holes in the cortex or gaps in the cuticle. On the plus side some may be beneficial for the scalp too.

I haven't sussed the products 100% yet, but am fairly happy with my core ingredients. I'm working partly from skimming some published literature which is dull as dishwater for most of you guys. This is easier for me because
- I'm a closet nerd, IRL cleverly disguised by loud hair and an even louder personality
- I have a biology background
- I researched skincare first and there is some overlap (yes, I cheated!)

The odd science-based thread on haircare and skincare forums, 'curl chemist' articles here on NC, the Natural Haven blog, swiftcraftymonkey blog, Beauty Brains (more skincare tho) are all decent reading for people who'd rather have their front teeth extracted than geek out with journal research papers.

If you do ever get 'the urge' there is a load of free access stuff on the Journal of Cosmetic Science website, plus full text and abstracts only linked to from PubMed (index of literature in the life sciences). Oh and a textbook 'Chemical and Physical Behaviour of human Hair' is on Google Books, not every page but enough.

HTH.
__________________
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG, growing out mechanical and chemical damage = breakage and very high porosity. Past armpit length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut
Treatments: Komaza Matani, coconut oil, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss ultimate volume, Inecto argan
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Boots Essentials gel
Experimenting with: going back to basics
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Old 06-17-2013, 01:32 PM   #6
 
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Yeah, you lost me part way through your response I'm a computer nerd disguised under tie dye and loud Grateful Dead music, but I definitely don't have the biology background. After I get my hair properties results, I'm going to have to dig into some of this a bit more ...
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Current favorites:
Low poo: Yes To Cukes Color Protection (the no sulfate one)
Conditioners: Renpure MPHIP, CJ Smoothing Lotion, AB LI, CJ Curl Rehab, CJ Argan/Olive, Darcy's Pumpkin
Style: FSG, BRHG
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Old 06-17-2013, 01:58 PM   #7
 
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My grays aren't any coarser than the rest of my hair, but they definitely have a weirder curl pattern, if you can even call it that. Some stick out straight, some bend in weird directions, and a precious few actually curl in with the rest of my hair. It's frustrating, but I'm not willing to dye it again to make it behave.

When I got my hair cut on Friday, my stylist recommended a "glaze" for the next time I come in. She said it's basically a color process without any pigment, and that it would soften those grays up a bit. So I'm going to try it and see if it does anything for me. Unfortunately, my next appointment isn't until September, so I can't report back until then. But if it works, it could be the solution I've been hoping for!
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Old 06-17-2013, 02:04 PM   #8
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustina View Post
My grays aren't any coarser than the rest of my hair, but they definitely have a weirder curl pattern, if you can even call it that. Some stick out straight, some bend in weird directions, and a precious few actually curl in with the rest of my hair. It's frustrating, but I'm not willing to dye it again to make it behave.

When I got my hair cut on Friday, my stylist recommended a "glaze" for the next time I come in. She said it's basically a color process without any pigment, and that it would soften those grays up a bit. So I'm going to try it and see if it does anything for me. Unfortunately, my next appointment isn't until September, so I can't report back until then. But if it works, it could be the solution I've been hoping for!
Rusting: please post the results here! And do you know, is it CG?
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Old 06-17-2013, 05:29 PM   #9
 
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I will post how it turns out, for sure - just hang in there for three months until I get it one! I am sure it's CG, since I go to a salon that specializes in curly hair and they use Deva cutting techniques and CG products.
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Old 06-17-2013, 06:27 PM   #10
 
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Dang auto-correct! Am glad you weren't offended I called you Rusting
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Old 06-17-2013, 07:14 PM   #11
 
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Autocorrect sucks! No offense taken at all. :-)
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Old 06-17-2013, 08:07 PM   #12
 
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My white hairs feel super smooth like plastic and I don't have enough to really say they're coarser. I don't want to pluck one out! They tend to have a perfectly even curl pattern though.
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Old 06-18-2013, 06:06 AM   #13
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefox7275 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by CurlyGrey3 View Post
Firefox, I wish I could figure out which products were best for my hair as well as you can. Just when I think I'm following along you throw out new ingredients (ceramides and panthenol) that I've never read about.
Sorry!! 18-MEA is another one you probably won't have heard of, another hair lipid that can patch repair, but it's a devil to find as an ingredient in a CG friendly product. All these ingredients are temporary lasting perhaps a few washes, you are trying to mimic the protective water resistant coating or fill holes in the cortex or gaps in the cuticle. On the plus side some may be beneficial for the scalp too.

I haven't sussed the products 100% yet, but am fairly happy with my core ingredients. I'm working partly from skimming some published literature which is dull as dishwater for most of you guys. This is easier for me because
- I'm a closet nerd, IRL cleverly disguised by loud hair and an even louder personality
- I have a biology background
- I researched skincare first and there is some overlap (yes, I cheated!)

The odd science-based thread on haircare and skincare forums, 'curl chemist' articles here on NC, the Natural Haven blog, swiftcraftymonkey blog, Beauty Brains (more skincare tho) are all decent reading for people who'd rather have their front teeth extracted than geek out with journal research papers.

If you do ever get 'the urge' there is a load of free access stuff on the Journal of Cosmetic Science website, plus full text and abstracts only linked to from PubMed (index of literature in the life sciences). Oh and a textbook 'Chemical and Physical Behaviour of human Hair' is on Google Books, not every page but enough.

HTH.
Funny you should mention this curly grey, I was thinking the same thing and decided this morning that I need to make a list of definintions specific to my needs for understanding and then create a chart of ingredients that fall into those categories. So for example, define what a humectant is, and then have a list of ingredients that are humectants.
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Type 2B - 3A
Med-High Porosity (partial highlights), medium & corse mixed textures

CG Day 1: May 16, 2013

Poo: CJ Daily Fix Cleansing Condish (as needed)
CO: Tresemme Naturals Vibrantly Smooth Condish
RO&LI: CJ Beauticurls Argan & Olive Oil Daily Hair Condish
Styling: CJ Pattern Pusha or FSG, TRESemme Flawless Curls - Bouncy Curls Defining Gel, Giovanni LANaturals HardHold Gel (canopy only)
DT: CJ Curl Rehab, Coconut oil, SS Repairing PT

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Old 06-18-2013, 06:16 AM   #14
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefox7275 View Post
Have you considered switching to a roots only application of colour instead of highlights? Highlights means some parts of hair will be very porous and some much less porous because some hair remains virgin and some gets multiple applications of bleach. Plus the lights tend to be done on the top layer which is at greater risk of environmental damage/ weathering (UV, wind, brushing and combing).
Yes, I am considering it. I plan to discuss it with my stylist at my appointment next weekend.
__________________
Type 2B - 3A
Med-High Porosity (partial highlights), medium & corse mixed textures

CG Day 1: May 16, 2013

Poo: CJ Daily Fix Cleansing Condish (as needed)
CO: Tresemme Naturals Vibrantly Smooth Condish
RO&LI: CJ Beauticurls Argan & Olive Oil Daily Hair Condish
Styling: CJ Pattern Pusha or FSG, TRESemme Flawless Curls - Bouncy Curls Defining Gel, Giovanni LANaturals HardHold Gel (canopy only)
DT: CJ Curl Rehab, Coconut oil, SS Repairing PT

Techniques: Scrunch-n-pump, tshirt wrap
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Old 06-18-2013, 06:19 AM   #15
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustina View Post
My grays aren't any coarser than the rest of my hair, but they definitely have a weirder curl pattern, if you can even call it that. Some stick out straight, some bend in weird directions, and a precious few actually curl in with the rest of my hair. It's frustrating, but I'm not willing to dye it again to make it behave.

When I got my hair cut on Friday, my stylist recommended a "glaze" for the next time I come in. She said it's basically a color process without any pigment, and that it would soften those grays up a bit. So I'm going to try it and see if it does anything for me. Unfortunately, my next appointment isn't until September, so I can't report back until then. But if it works, it could be the solution I've been hoping for!
This is interesting. I didn't know that color helped greys behave. Here firefox is trying to get me to improve my coloring ways, but this makes me want to start doing all over color!
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Type 2B - 3A
Med-High Porosity (partial highlights), medium & corse mixed textures

CG Day 1: May 16, 2013

Poo: CJ Daily Fix Cleansing Condish (as needed)
CO: Tresemme Naturals Vibrantly Smooth Condish
RO&LI: CJ Beauticurls Argan & Olive Oil Daily Hair Condish
Styling: CJ Pattern Pusha or FSG, TRESemme Flawless Curls - Bouncy Curls Defining Gel, Giovanni LANaturals HardHold Gel (canopy only)
DT: CJ Curl Rehab, Coconut oil, SS Repairing PT

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Old 06-18-2013, 06:20 AM   #16
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alslgirl2002 View Post
Funny you should mention this curly grey, I was thinking the same thing and decided this morning that I need to make a list of definintions specific to my needs for understanding and then create a chart of ingredients that fall into those categories. So for example, define what a humectant is, and then have a list of ingredients that are humectants.
If you do, please share it. It would be interesting to read it.
__________________
Salt & pepper wavy mix 2B/2C
Low to normal porosity, coarse, kinky, normal elasticity
Current favorites:
Low poo: Yes To Cukes Color Protection (the no sulfate one)
Conditioners: Renpure MPHIP, CJ Smoothing Lotion, AB LI, CJ Curl Rehab, CJ Argan/Olive, Darcy's Pumpkin
Style: FSG, BRHG
Pre-poo/DT: Conditioner with honey & coconut oil

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Old 06-18-2013, 06:35 AM   #17
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CurlyGrey3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by alslgirl2002 View Post
Funny you should mention this curly grey, I was thinking the same thing and decided this morning that I need to make a list of definintions specific to my needs for understanding and then create a chart of ingredients that fall into those categories. So for example, define what a humectant is, and then have a list of ingredients that are humectants.
If you do, please share it. It would be interesting to read it.
I've started already :-P It's going to take a little time, but I'll share when I have something worth looking at.
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Type 2B - 3A
Med-High Porosity (partial highlights), medium & corse mixed textures

CG Day 1: May 16, 2013

Poo: CJ Daily Fix Cleansing Condish (as needed)
CO: Tresemme Naturals Vibrantly Smooth Condish
RO&LI: CJ Beauticurls Argan & Olive Oil Daily Hair Condish
Styling: CJ Pattern Pusha or FSG, TRESemme Flawless Curls - Bouncy Curls Defining Gel, Giovanni LANaturals HardHold Gel (canopy only)
DT: CJ Curl Rehab, Coconut oil, SS Repairing PT

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Old 06-19-2013, 07:12 AM   #18
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alslgirl2002 View Post
This is interesting. I didn't know that color helped greys behave. Here firefox is trying to get me to improve my coloring ways, but this makes me want to start doing all over color!
I should clarify - my natural color is a very dark brown, so when I colored to cover my gray, I was adding color to my hair to match, not stripping it (highlights). I think that makes a difference. :-)
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Old 06-19-2013, 07:26 AM   #19
 
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I have greyhounds, so I read your thread title and instantly went "I hope her dogs are ok"

I have no helpful info about grey hair, but it made me laugh this morning
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Old 06-19-2013, 08:27 AM   #20
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alslgirl2002 View Post
This is interesting. I didn't know that color helped greys behave. Here firefox is trying to get me to improve my coloring ways, but this makes me want to start doing all over color!
I am anti repeat chemical processing or high lifts, based on a rough understanding of what peroxide and strongly alkaline products do to hair (NB both are a feature of almost all permanent dyes, including dark). Also published research clearly states that repeat processing is associated with the most damage to both the protein structure and the lipid cuticle glue. I'm certainly not anti all permanent dye, I intend to be a chemical head til I die!

I'm not clear what a 'glaze' is in hair stylist lingo, the commercial ones you can purchase yourself like John Frieda are semi permanent so non damaging and heavy on the silicones to give shine. But that doesn't fit in with a stylist who is 'up' on the Curly Girl method.
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2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG, growing out mechanical and chemical damage = breakage and very high porosity. Past armpit length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut
Treatments: Komaza Matani, coconut oil, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss ultimate volume, Inecto argan
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Boots Essentials gel
Experimenting with: going back to basics
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