What is the difference between a conditioner and a moisturizer?

Like Tree57Likes

Wavydaze I'm so glad you asked this question because I'm a new natural & I'm completely confused about what products/ingredients do what. The hair in the 'headband' region of my head is hard & crunchy. ( for lack if a better way to describe it) I can't find anything to permanently soften it & make it feel like the back. So I need to know what will soften & moisturize my hair. If possible with very little frizz.
Originally Posted by curlicious13
Hi Curlicious!

The hardness and crunchiness you're experiencing could be from buildup, but it might be from other things as well, like too much protein.

We (I saw "we" because this is a thread and anyone can jump in!) would need to know your current routine (current products + the way you are using them). It would be good to know your hair properties as well. Here's a good site that explains how you can figure it out: Live Curly Live Free - Curly Hair Basics If you can't figure out on your own, you can also consider getting an analysis from Live Curly Live Free or Komaza Care.
2BC/f/II. fine - low/normal porosity - medium density - normal elasticity.

Currently using:
Low-poo: Jason Mango bodywash
Cowash: Cure Care diluted with water 1:1
RO: Cure Care, V05 Kiwi Lime
Styler: UFD CM (old formula), FSG + CNPF
PT: IAgirl's gelatine

light moisture, hydrolized protein, jelly stylers
guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride, sulfates, jojoba oil
Neutral on cones.

iherb discount code: CFN646
So the result is "conditioned" but the hair actually isn't "conditioned"? Don't you think that's a little embedded in semantics? Especially since we have no way to prove or scientifically check that our hair is or isn't conditioned, we're just going by the result anyway which is how it feels? This is what I was getting at.

We seem to have (as noted above by yourself and Lynaea) different ways of softening the hair:

1. by emollients (by keeping in water)
2. by emollients (added to dry hair, softens, no extra h2o involved)
3. by humectants (draws in water from the air)
4. by fatty alcohols (draws in water and keeps water in as well?)
5. cationic surfactant
6. others?

Anyway, to me all the methods above lead to non-dry hair, but they do by chemically/physically different ways. SO, what I'm trying to ask is that we don't have terms for the different ways the above ingredients actually "soften" the hair. I'm using "soften" as a very general term to describe what we feel and commonly describe as "conditioned." "Softened hair" as the opposite of "dry hair."

Like Lynaea I don't actually know what "conditioned" really means and it can obviously be used to describe hair that is not dry but reaching that effect is done by many ways.
Originally Posted by wavydaze
Okay, I'm gonna give this a go. I have italicized copied stuff, any other definitions are in my own words and therefore are possibly incomplete or incorrect.

I had to go back to the beginning to see where this started but it appears to be a statement about 'conditioning' with oils and butters. So, first a definition from one of the links I posted in here somewhere

Conditioning agent: This is a general term used in the hair care industry to cover all the ingredients that can protect the hair from [...] potentially harmful effects.

Emollient: a substance that acts to keep water in the hair (by acting as a sponge OR a plastic bottle) AND has conditioning properties.

Moisturizing ingredient: a substance that helps hair (or skin) retain water.

Judging by the list in one of the other links, nearly ALL the ingredients in a hair conditioner (or really a lot of haircare products) are defined as conditioning agents. I assume preservatives and fragrance are the exceptions.

I think in the list above that you're making the same type of overgeneralization I was. Basically that an emollient is an ingredient or a group of ingredients ... BUT the oil is the ingredient, emollient is a term that describes SOME of its properties. So SOME oils have emollient properties, as do some fatty alcohols, etc. AND, SOME substances with emollient properties are oils....

So the issue is not whether or not oils condition the hair, conditioning is part of their emollient properties, the issue is with saying that ingredient group X moisturizes and ingredient groups B & C condition. Actually ingredient groups A-Z ALL condition so its misleading to single out certain groups like that.

In one of her posts Firefox describes humectants as moisturizers because they can actually attract and bind water to the hair, humectants are conditioning agents too. So, I think my original question is misleading, a given substance or product is not either moisturizing OR conditioning. Adding moisture to the hair is one of many possible benefits of using conditioning agents on the hair. So my question doesn't make sense really.

I think we can look at the term 'conditioned hair' in two ways:
1). If conditioning agents in total have the potential to provide 100 uniquely described benefits to hair we could say that using a single ingredient/substance that provides 2-3 of these benefits gives us conditioned hair.
2). However, a product with a mix of conditioning agents that provides 75 of these benefits doesn't give us more conditioned hair but it does condition the hair more completely. So is the first statement correct?

I think the answer is yes and no; the hair in the first example has absolutely benefited from some conditioning effects but it would be more accurate to describe the specific 2-3 benefits of the specific substance used, the hair in the second example could absolutely be described as conditioned (whether or not one of the 75 benefits are added moisture).

I guess this could be described as semantics but I don't think that's really the case. Its similar to saying something like 'carrots are nutritious', of course they are, but if you only eat carrots you will not be getting a balanced diet (and your skin will turn orange like an oompah-loompah ). It is more accurate to say that carrots are one source of beta-carotene which is PART OF a nutritious diet.

I know this started from a reference to oils and butters but I'm not singling them out. I look for fatty alcohols in products as opposed to (or with minimal) oils because that seems to work best for my hair. However, if I went out and bought straight cetyl alcohol (or pick your favorite ) and used it as a 'deep conditioning' treatment I would likely get less then stellar results. The same could be said for straight humectants or protein. It is always best to have a mix of ingredients to maximize the benefits of your time and effort. That is likely a lot of the reason the curlies who mixed extra oils and humectants with conditioner felt they got better results then when using those ingredients alone, essentially they got many benefits from many conditioning agents rather than a few from one.

I think (?) I answered your question. This is a lot of work but I'm really enjoying this thread.
artemis513 and wavydaze like this.
2A / F / MD / LP / ?E / BSL --- CG since Dec. 2012

This is what I'm happiest with right now.
Co-wash: CJ DailyFix
Lo-poo: DermOrganic low-poo
RO: SS Caitlin's co
Leave-in: SheScentIt Okra Repair condish
PT: SS Caitlin's + SS PT
Stylers: Volumax Mega Gel, Max Green Styling Gel, DermOrganics Spray Gel
Techniques: Plopping & Pixie Diffusing.
glycerin, honey, oils & butters Protein!

Last edited by Lynaea; 06-21-2013 at 04:55 PM.
Overall you are doing brilliantly in understanding something quite complex, that is basically in a 'foreign language'. If you are going to ask 'yes but how' ... well that to me makes you a born scientist!!
Originally Posted by Firefox7275
Thanks! I do have an Associates in Science and I work in a Pathology lab so I guess I have a better base of science knowledge then a lot of other CGers. Maybe that's part of my frustration, this site tends to operate at the Curly Hair Care 101 level and I'm looking for the next level course. Haha

I guess I did kind of stop myself from asking how what we call over-moisturization versus product build-up works or what mechanism(s) cause it. I think I sensed I was heading into Advanced Curly Care territory, where understanding the answer requires a level of knowledge that I don't have.
Thanks for all the links, I'm going to work my way through them this weekend.
Firefox7275 likes this.
2A / F / MD / LP / ?E / BSL --- CG since Dec. 2012

This is what I'm happiest with right now.
Co-wash: CJ DailyFix
Lo-poo: DermOrganic low-poo
RO: SS Caitlin's co
Leave-in: SheScentIt Okra Repair condish
PT: SS Caitlin's + SS PT
Stylers: Volumax Mega Gel, Max Green Styling Gel, DermOrganics Spray Gel
Techniques: Plopping & Pixie Diffusing.
glycerin, honey, oils & butters Protein!
So, what do oils do on dry hair in fact?

I'm still on a mission to tame the frizzies in dry hair, and I have tried the following things:
- try to tame them with wet hands (just water: didn't work)
- try to tame them with wet hands (water) that I covered with a bit of conditioner and water again: did work, but made my hair a bit greasier as well
- try to tame with wet hands (water + either jojoba oil, coconut oil or shea oil): worked but for some reason I don't like the idea of putting "straight" oil on my hair
- try to tame with wet hands: water + conditioner + one of the three oils: worked, but still no perfection...

What would be the best thing to tame my frizzies in dry hair then? (spraying things doesn't work, either it doesn't have any antifrizzeffect or it weighs my hair down)
Originally Posted by Neleke
Neleke, I've been distracted with all this information but I don't think anyone responded to your specific question. Actually I think the best way to stop frizz is to use the right products while the hair is wet. Once the hair is dry and starts to frizz the only remedy is something to physically hold the hair in place like spray gel or hairspray.

Frizz can have a number of causes:
Humectants in the wrong dews or on hair that just doesn't like them.
Damage from heat, etc
A moisture-protein imbalance.
Build up from hair products (silicones, oils, polyquats, butters, 'hold' ingredients, hard water)
There are probably more

The easiest to fix are humectant use and build-up so if you're using products with glycerin, honey or agave nectar high in the ingredients list try going without them for a few days. There are lots of humectants but these are the main culprits I think. It may also be worth it to use a shampoo with coco betaine (or similar, this ingredient seems to be listed under several names, or there are several similarly named ingredients that work similarly) and/or tetrasodium EDTA which is a chelating agent (this works for hard water build up) to clarify and see if the frizz lessens.

The next step is to get the moisture-protein balance right for your hair, this is a bit more involved and won't likely show immediate results.
If you're having a lot of frizz definitely try the first two steps followed by a DT with a balanced conditioner (ie not Shea Moisture or oil/butter heavy). If your only trying to tame a little frizz on second day hair I have the best luck with mixing a small amount of gel with water on my hands and smoothing/scrunching that in, this helps to get those frizzy bits back into clumps and hold them there until the water evaporates. Once the hair is dry again you can gently scrunch out whatever crunch formed.

You also asked what oils actually do on dry hair. That depends on the oil in question; penetrating oils like coconut coat the hair to an extent but also/mostly(?) absorb into the hair shaft and provide some benefits like strengthening and increased elasticity (I'm told ). Occlusive oils like grapeseed and mineral oils essentially coat the surface of the hair. There are most likely oils along a spectrum between these two extremes.

Essentially an oil does whatever it does whether its used on wet or dry hair. However, one of the benefits of using an occlusive (sealing) oil is that it can seal in water that is applied before it. Applying one of these on dry hair would mostly just add lubrication and maybe a bit of sticky-attraction with clump-assisting potential. Coconut oil would act similarly at first but this effect will diminish as the oil absorbs into the hair.

It sounds like you had the best results applying oil with wet hands, this makes sense, you're giving your hair some extra moisture (water) and then sealing it in (occlusive oil), I don't think this is similar to applying 'straight oil', as long as you realize this is a stopgap to tame frizzies that can't otherwise be avoided and not a true means of 'moisturizing' your hair I don't think its wrong or bad. The jojoba is probably a better choice for this method than the coconut or shea, you could try other light oils too like grapeseed or sweet almond.
2A / F / MD / LP / ?E / BSL --- CG since Dec. 2012

This is what I'm happiest with right now.
Co-wash: CJ DailyFix
Lo-poo: DermOrganic low-poo
RO: SS Caitlin's co
Leave-in: SheScentIt Okra Repair condish
PT: SS Caitlin's + SS PT
Stylers: Volumax Mega Gel, Max Green Styling Gel, DermOrganics Spray Gel
Techniques: Plopping & Pixie Diffusing.
glycerin, honey, oils & butters Protein!
Just to confuse everyone even more!

http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/...y-need-to.html

http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/...-leave-in.html

THE NATURAL HAVEN: Should you really leave conditioner in your hair?

THE NATURAL HAVEN: Reader Question: Difference between a moisturiser and a conditioner

http://www.thenaturalhavenbloom.com/...t-hair-or.html
Firefox7275 likes this.
2C/ Coarse/ Normal porosity/ SW Florida/ Salt & Pepper
Cleanse: CJ Daily Fix, JC Cleansing Cream, TJ Tea Tree Condish
Condish: JC Too Shea, CJ Curl Rehab (both as RO & LI)
Stylers: UFD CM, CJ PP, JC Spiralicious, Darcy's Cream Gel & Cocoa bean whip

Last edited by chloe92us; 06-21-2013 at 07:35 PM.
Just to confuse everyone even more!

THE NATURAL HAVEN: QFQ: What is the difference between a leave in and a moisturiser?

THE NATURAL HAVEN: Should you really leave conditioner in your hair?

THE NATURAL HAVEN: Reader Question: Difference between a moisturiser and a conditioner

According to the above blog post, a conditioner is a creamy thick rinse out conditioner, and a moisturiser is a creamy leave in!
Originally Posted by chloe92us
Part of this is the limitations of the posters genre(?), she states in the comments of one post that her answers are purposely brief and to the point.

The issue I have with the first link is the same one we have on these forums. The answerer assumes the asker is using the same definitions and requirements(?) of conditioner, moisturizer and even leave-in that she does. If that question were posted here I would want to know what specific products the OP is using. I think we can all agree that using a sulfate shampoo followed by a L'oreal EverWhatever 'deep conditioner' followed by KCKT as a LI is in no way going to Moisturize the hair (as in help it retain water) the way a CGer would want. It is also debatable whether what the OP describes as 'dry hair after two days' is actual lack of and need for moisture or the results/effects/signs of oil/dirt/product build up from using possibly heavy products every 2-3 days. What I see here is a vague answer to a vague question.

I realize the other two were posted several years apart but since we don't have access to the writers personal definitions I think they are best considered together. The first is confusing in that only the table headings label a RO conditioning and a LI as moisturizing without any supporting explanation. The info on humectants in LI's in the second post clarifies this some. If we go with the writers statement that LI's are more likely to contain humectants and sealants it follows that a 'generic LI' will have moisturizing properties. Therefore a RO, which in her experience/opinion contains far less of these ingredient types would be less a Moisturizer and more a Conditioner.

I don't think the writer is really using the terms that differently from what has been said in this thread but between the length limit of the responses and the broad generalizations about what ingredients constitute a 'creamy RO/LI' we are left with confusion. All we can say is that given a creamy RO and a creamy LI with ingredient types and amounts very close to those posted in the table the LI would have greater moisturizing properties/potential than the RO.
2A / F / MD / LP / ?E / BSL --- CG since Dec. 2012

This is what I'm happiest with right now.
Co-wash: CJ DailyFix
Lo-poo: DermOrganic low-poo
RO: SS Caitlin's co
Leave-in: SheScentIt Okra Repair condish
PT: SS Caitlin's + SS PT
Stylers: Volumax Mega Gel, Max Green Styling Gel, DermOrganics Spray Gel
Techniques: Plopping & Pixie Diffusing.
glycerin, honey, oils & butters Protein!
I guess I was responding while Chloe was editing, the other two links are articles rather then Q&A, they are very informative, thanks for posting them.
2A / F / MD / LP / ?E / BSL --- CG since Dec. 2012

This is what I'm happiest with right now.
Co-wash: CJ DailyFix
Lo-poo: DermOrganic low-poo
RO: SS Caitlin's co
Leave-in: SheScentIt Okra Repair condish
PT: SS Caitlin's + SS PT
Stylers: Volumax Mega Gel, Max Green Styling Gel, DermOrganics Spray Gel
Techniques: Plopping & Pixie Diffusing.
glycerin, honey, oils & butters Protein!
Thank you for answering my question! I will keep on using especially the jojoba oil I guess.
Don't be worried, I know that this doesn't truly moisturize my hair but I do this just to tame the frizzies temporary. I especially get frizzies because of the weather I think. If I stay inside (which is quite impossible), my hair is absolutely fine. Once I go outside (we often have quite stormy weather with a lot of wind and rain) I come back inside with frizzies which need to be tamed
2c: fine texture, normal porosity, normal elasticity, normal-high density
CG since March 8th 2013
Low Poo: Rainforest Radiance shampoo
Conditioner: Yes to Cucumbers
Styler: BRHG, Garnier Fructis Gel
PT: Gliss Kur Repair & Volume


iherb.com: get a 5$ discount on orders under 40$ or a 10$ discount on orders over 40$ when you order for your first order by using the following discount code: CFH441
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gIxWIXHMCA
Curlsnswirls likes this.
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect
Oooh, she's awesome! This one on moisture-protein balance is good too
The Science of Black Hair: Protein/Moisture Balance Basics - YouTube
I think I'm going to have to watch them all! Thanks Firefox!
Firefox7275 and Curlsnswirls like this.
2A / F / MD / LP / ?E / BSL --- CG since Dec. 2012

This is what I'm happiest with right now.
Co-wash: CJ DailyFix
Lo-poo: DermOrganic low-poo
RO: SS Caitlin's co
Leave-in: SheScentIt Okra Repair condish
PT: SS Caitlin's + SS PT
Stylers: Volumax Mega Gel, Max Green Styling Gel, DermOrganics Spray Gel
Techniques: Plopping & Pixie Diffusing.
glycerin, honey, oils & butters Protein!
Folks, this thread is exactly what I've been looking for, and the answer to a lot of my recent questions about why certain ingredients seem to give my low-porosity curls so much trouble and how to moisturize them more effectively.

Side note, thanks for doing all my homework for me in time for this CurlMart sale . . .
Geek_Chic likes this.
3A/B, LOW-po, fine, med density/elasticity, near BSL.
CG, baby!
Digs: protein
Don't: oils & butters straight/in large doses. Suffocation.
*Cleanse (almost daily, I have a really sweaty and dirty job)
*Rinse-Out (upside down . . . . for the rest of the process)
*Leave-In (just the ends, then smooth residue over crown)
*Scrunch & Pump (until the squish diminishes)
*Plop (as long as I can get away with it)
HG: Mop Top Daily Condish, Curl Junkie Rehab
Now I'm beginning to research pH....it's hard to find out this information for products though. One of her videos makes it pretty simple: pH should be worked into your routine from high to low; higher pH in shampoos/ cleansers, lower in conditioner, and lowest in leave in conditioners. This theory makes me rethink the KCKT that I use in my rotation as a leave in....it has a pH of 7. The deva low poo and CJ deep fix (cleansers) are 6...My other favorite LI is 4.5 (satin roots).
2C/ Coarse/ Normal porosity/ SW Florida/ Salt & Pepper
Cleanse: CJ Daily Fix, JC Cleansing Cream, TJ Tea Tree Condish
Condish: JC Too Shea, CJ Curl Rehab (both as RO & LI)
Stylers: UFD CM, CJ PP, JC Spiralicious, Darcy's Cream Gel & Cocoa bean whip

Last edited by chloe92us; 06-22-2013 at 08:24 PM.
[QUOTE=chloe92us;2183505]Now I'm beginning to research pH....it's hard to find out this information for products though. One of her videos makes it pretty simple: pH should be worked into your routine from high to low; higher pH in shampoos/ cleansers, lower in conditioner, and lowest in leave in conditioners. This theory makes me rethink the KCKT that I use in my rotation as a leave in....it has a pH of 7. The deva low poo and CJ deep fix (cleansers) are 6...My other favorite LI is 4.5 (satin roots).

I have a sample of CKSR from kathymack that I used when dews were in the normal range and really liked it. Using glycerin in high dews was a disaster so I have avoided it in everything I put in my hair. CKSR has glycerin as the 8th ingredient. Are you using this in high dews? Has it caused any issues?
2C/Fine Texture/Normal Porosity/Normal Elasticity/Very Humid Climate
CKSR has glycerin as the 8th ingredient. Are you using this in high dews? Has it caused any issues?
Originally Posted by FloridaCurly
Yes, I've been using it in these high dews, but I always seal with jojoba when I do. I haven't had any issues. I've discovered that, for my hair, as long as glycerin is pretty far down on the list, I'm okay. I still prefer stylers without any glycerin.

I LOVE the smell of satin roots- wish I could bottle it as perfume! It smells like vanilla baby powder- my two favorite scents!
2C/ Coarse/ Normal porosity/ SW Florida/ Salt & Pepper
Cleanse: CJ Daily Fix, JC Cleansing Cream, TJ Tea Tree Condish
Condish: JC Too Shea, CJ Curl Rehab (both as RO & LI)
Stylers: UFD CM, CJ PP, JC Spiralicious, Darcy's Cream Gel & Cocoa bean whip
So, first a definition from one of the links I posted in here somewhere

Conditioning agent: This is a general term used in the hair care industry to cover all the ingredients that can protect the hair from [...] potentially harmful effects.

Emollient: a substance that acts to keep water in the hair (by acting as a sponge OR a plastic bottle) AND has conditioning properties.

Moisturizing ingredient: a substance that helps hair (or skin) retain water.
Originally Posted by Lynaea
Okay then conditioning as protecting seems even more confusing to me. I haven't read through Chloe's links yet but I will, sorry if it answers my question there.

When I think of "protecting" I think of something shielding the hair, so as in ingredients that have emollient properties. I guess increasing water content from within could protect the hair from brittleness and therefore breakage, however condition as protection still seems vague. It really just means "good for the hair." The vagueness and lack of consistency of the terms is what is bothering me.

I guess this could be described as semantics but I don't think that's really the case. Its similar to saying something like 'carrots are nutritious', of course they are, but if you only eat carrots you will not be getting a balanced diet (and your skin will turn orange like an oompah-loompah ). It is more accurate to say that carrots are one source of beta-carotene which is PART OF a nutritious diet.
Originally Posted by Lynaea
What I meant as semantics was in response to something Firefox wrote. I read it as: the "result" is conditioned but it isn't actually conditioned. To me that's like saying, "well X person was sick, and then we gave him Y and the result was his health was restored. But he's not actually healthy." That doesn't make sense to me.

But I think she meant to say "effect," not "result." As in the "effect" is feeling conditioned.
2BC/f/II. fine - low/normal porosity - medium density - normal elasticity.

Currently using:
Low-poo: Jason Mango bodywash
Cowash: Cure Care diluted with water 1:1
RO: Cure Care, V05 Kiwi Lime
Styler: UFD CM (old formula), FSG + CNPF
PT: IAgirl's gelatine

light moisture, hydrolized protein, jelly stylers
guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride, sulfates, jojoba oil
Neutral on cones.

iherb discount code: CFN646
What I meant as semantics was in response to something Firefox wrote. I read it as: the "result" is conditioned but it isn't actually conditioned. To me that's like saying, "well X person was sick, and then we gave him Y and the result was his health was restored. But he's not actually healthy." That doesn't make sense to me.

But I think she meant to say "effect," not "result." As in the "effect" is feeling conditioned.
Originally Posted by wavydaze
I do not require you to correct my grammar, thank you, thanks to having an EFL/ ESL teacher as a parent my grasp of my native language is more than adequate. My posts don't make sense because you are not reading what I actually wrote but what you interpret or erroneously recall. I've already emboldened some of the words or phrases you omit yet you continue to paraphrase and completely change my meaning. Using the word 'feel/ feeling' and 'effect' in the same sentence would be tautology.
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect

Last edited by Firefox7275; 06-23-2013 at 09:57 AM.
Now I'm beginning to research pH....it's hard to find out this information for products though. One of her videos makes it pretty simple: pH should be worked into your routine from high to low; higher pH in shampoos/ cleansers, lower in conditioner, and lowest in leave in conditioners. This theory makes me rethink the KCKT that I use in my rotation as a leave in....it has a pH of 7. The deva low poo and CJ deep fix (cleansers) are 6...My other favorite LI is 4.5 (satin roots).
Originally Posted by chloe92us
And now it all gets more complicated :-)

Do the commercial companies formulate their products this way?
Salt & pepper wavy mix 2B/2C
Low to normal porosity, coarse, kinky, normal elasticity
Current favorites:
Low poo: Yes To Cukes Color Protection (the no sulfate one)
Conditioners: Renpure MPHIP, CJ Smoothing Lotion, AB LI, CJ Curl Rehab, CJ Argan/Olive, Darcy's Pumpkin
Style: FSG, BRHG
Pre-poo/DT: Conditioner with honey & coconut oil

iHerb discount code: PNQ285
Now I'm beginning to research pH....it's hard to find out this information for products though. One of her videos makes it pretty simple: pH should be worked into your routine from high to low; higher pH in shampoos/ cleansers, lower in conditioner, and lowest in leave in conditioners. This theory makes me rethink the KCKT that I use in my rotation as a leave in....it has a pH of 7. The deva low poo and CJ deep fix (cleansers) are 6...My other favorite LI is 4.5 (satin roots).
Originally Posted by chloe92us
And now it all gets more complicated :-)

Do the commercial companies formulate their products this way?
Originally Posted by CurlyGrey3
I know!

Here's the video I was referring to:

The Science of Black Hair on pH Problems & pH Balancing (Moisture Basics 3/4) - YouTube
2C/ Coarse/ Normal porosity/ SW Florida/ Salt & Pepper
Cleanse: CJ Daily Fix, JC Cleansing Cream, TJ Tea Tree Condish
Condish: JC Too Shea, CJ Curl Rehab (both as RO & LI)
Stylers: UFD CM, CJ PP, JC Spiralicious, Darcy's Cream Gel & Cocoa bean whip
I'm not sure how Firefox meant it. My understanding is that 'conditioned' is a broad term for the result of using a conditioning product on the hair. However if you're using ONLY 1-2 specific conditioning agents it is more accurate to state the specific benefits of those used. I'm still not sure I completely understand it either. I think it's more important to figure out what each group of conditioning agents do and get a good idea if how they work. I got distracted by other stuff this weekend but I'm going to come back to it.
2A / F / MD / LP / ?E / BSL --- CG since Dec. 2012

This is what I'm happiest with right now.
Co-wash: CJ DailyFix
Lo-poo: DermOrganic low-poo
RO: SS Caitlin's co
Leave-in: SheScentIt Okra Repair condish
PT: SS Caitlin's + SS PT
Stylers: Volumax Mega Gel, Max Green Styling Gel, DermOrganics Spray Gel
Techniques: Plopping & Pixie Diffusing.
glycerin, honey, oils & butters Protein!
IMO the pH ladder/ rollercoaster thing is particularly relevant when you are shampooing because shampoos can be pH 7 or thereabouts, or using soap based products or baking soda which can be highly alkaline. It's slightly less of a worry for those conditioner only washing because hair and skin are very likely remaining in the acidic range all the way through to leave in conditioner, since a key task of conditioners is to encourage the cuticle to lay flat after being 'ruffled' by shampoo.

Whilst it is the norm for conditioners to be acidic, I am not at all sure the same applies to gels and stylers, I posted a while back saying I wondered if the drying effect from some gels was pH related but didn't really get any interest. And of course those are the last thing we apply ....

Currently the only lines I know of that specify a hair and skin friendly pH are As I Am and Komaza Care, and I haven't tried any As I Am (too heavy/ not easily available) so don't routinely recommend them. I'd love to have another and stop banging on about KC tho!! As I Am was started by Dr Ali Syed and I think I read somewhere he is responsible for other haircare lines so it is possible there are other safe bets.

Some pHs are also on the Natural Haven blog
THE NATURAL HAVEN: pH of Shampoo : The Ultimate List!
THE NATURAL HAVEN: pH of Conditioners
THE NATURAL HAVEN: pH of Leave In Conditioners and Styling Aids
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect

Trending Topics


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:17 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2011 NaturallyCurly.com