Please help! Frizzy when wet - always product buildup?

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The past 3 washes my hair has been frizzy while wet and worse when dry. Today I low-pood (Renpure argan oil knockoff), conditioned (rinse out) with Tresemme Naturals, and when I got out of the shower I already had a good amount of frizz.

This started on Friday. On Wednesday I used Deva No Poo, which I know has a polyquat (7). My hair looked normal on Wednesday. On Friday I used Dermorganic low poo for the first time. Saturday I tried a deep condition (Suave naturals coconut, honey, coconut oil, a few drops protein filler) and cowash.

The only other products in my hair since then have been BRHG and homemade FSG.

Aside from the DemOrganic (which I hated anyway), I've used everything else at least once before without a problem.

The way I see it, either there's something that isn't leaving my hair, or it's one of the two products I used today. If the former, how the heck do I get whatever it is out of my hair? Just a sulfate shampoo? That may be my next step.

If it's something I used today, then it has to be that my hair hates TN, since it's the common thread for the past few days. (And several before that, so I have no idea what's going on).

Any help would be appreciated! I look like a drowned rat at the moment because I tried to go to work in a torrential downpour and had to turn back. I'll probably rewash tomorrow since I don't think this will even be acceptable first day hair. I can go out at lunch and buy whatever I need once I do make it to the office

The ingredients in today's shampoo (Renpure knockoff):

Purified Water, Cocamidopropyl Betaine (Coconut Oil [Derived Source]), Sodium Lauroyl Sarcosinate (Coconut Oil [Derived Source]), Lauryl Glucoside (Coconut Oil [Derived Source]), Decyl Glucoside (Coconut Oil [Derived Source]), Sodium Lauroyl Lactylate (Palm Oil [Derived Source]), PEG-120 Methyl Glucose Dioleate (Rapeseed Oil [Derived Source]), Argania Spinosa (Argan [Derived Source]) Kernel Oil, Hypnea Musciformis Extract (Red Seaweed [Derived Source]), Gellidiela Acerosa Extract (Red Alga [Derived Source]), Sargassum Filipendula Extract (Brown Seaweed [Derived Source]), Sorbitol (Sugar [Derived Source]), Silicone Quaternium-17, Glycol Stearate (Palm Oil [Derived Source]), Polyquaternium-10, Citric Acid (Fruit Acid [Derived Source]), Diazolidinyl Urea, Iodopropynyl Butylcarbamate, Fragrance.

In today's conditioner TN):

Water (Aqua), Stearyl Alcohol, Cetyl Alcohol, Caprylic/Capric Triglyceride, Stearamidopropyl Dimethylamine, Fragrance (Parfum), Lauroyl Lysine, Caprylyl Glycol, Brassica Campestris/Aleurites Fordi Oil Copolymer, Aspartic Acid, Distearyldimonium Chloride, Persea Gratissima (Avocado) Oil (USDA Certified Organic Extracts: Aloe Vera, Sweet Orange, and Avocado), Citric Acid, Alcohol, Isopropyl Alcohol, Aloe Barbadensis Leaf Juice (USDA Certified Organic Extracts: Aloe Vera, Sweet Orange, and Avocado).


Thanks!
Salt & pepper wavy mix 2B/2C
Low to normal porosity, coarse, kinky, normal elasticity
Current favorites:
Low poo: Yes To Cukes Color Protection (the no sulfate one)
Conditioners: Renpure MPHIP, CJ Smoothing Lotion, AB LI, CJ Curl Rehab, CJ Argan/Olive, Darcy's Pumpkin
Style: FSG, BRHG
Pre-poo/DT: Conditioner with honey & coconut oil

iHerb discount code: PNQ285
I have had the frizzy when wet a couple of times lately after I've overdone the protein/ underdone the oil in my leave in.

Why are you mixing the protein filler with the coconut oil and honey? I would do your protein treatment separate to your deep conditioning treatment OR add the protein filler to your regular leave in conditioner. Certain ingredients do help hydrolysed proteins penetrate: seen claims for aloe vera, behentrimoniums, lecithin, something to do with polarity/ charges. Two of those are emulsifiers which might be relevant.

I wouldn't have thought lauric acid (water repellant and hydrolysed proteins (water soluble would penetrate at the same rate, it's not impossible they'd form an affinity on the surface of the hair instead of inside. That is a guess obviously.

Remember also that changes you have made to your routine are not simply what you have added but what you have subtracted. So if you have a new conditioner you have presumably stopped using the old one.
Samanthascurlz and CurlyGrey3 like this.
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect
I don't know why I added the protein filler. It was definitely not a great idea. This frizz problem started before that, though.

It sounds like you're saying it's not necessarily a build up issue, but could be a lack of some kind of conditioning. That could explain why it's happened as I've moved to using TN more since I've switched conditioners. I also stopped using the Suave Coconut. My hair likes it, but I don't think my skin does.

I'll see if I can pick up a different conditioner and try that next time, and maybe do another deep condition (without any protein).
Salt & pepper wavy mix 2B/2C
Low to normal porosity, coarse, kinky, normal elasticity
Current favorites:
Low poo: Yes To Cukes Color Protection (the no sulfate one)
Conditioners: Renpure MPHIP, CJ Smoothing Lotion, AB LI, CJ Curl Rehab, CJ Argan/Olive, Darcy's Pumpkin
Style: FSG, BRHG
Pre-poo/DT: Conditioner with honey & coconut oil

iHerb discount code: PNQ285
I get frizz when my hair is wet (and my hair is absolutely not prone to frizz) + build-up when I've used something with polyquats. For some reason, they are difficult to remove. The only solution for me is using a sulfate poo, then avoiding polyquats. The first product you list has two polyquats in them, so I'm thinking they might be the problem.
CurlyGrey3 likes this.
F - LP - HD - NE
Fine, low porosity, high density, normal elasticity
Hairtype 2c

Low poo: Weleda Oat Replenishing Shampoo
Protein: IAGirl's gelatine treatment
Detangler & LI: KCKT
Styling: KCCC

Beauty Is Not a Number
The Silicone Quaternium-17 is water soluble. I see the polyquat 10 in the Renpure, and the Deva had 7.

Sigh. Why can't this all be easy?

OK, so maybe a sulfate poo is in order. I think the one I have in the house (an old Tresemme shampoo "for curly hair") has at least one polyquat in it, so maybe I'll pick up some cheap harsh shampoo at lunch. Then I need a nice rich conditioner. Maybe I can get back to where I was.
Salt & pepper wavy mix 2B/2C
Low to normal porosity, coarse, kinky, normal elasticity
Current favorites:
Low poo: Yes To Cukes Color Protection (the no sulfate one)
Conditioners: Renpure MPHIP, CJ Smoothing Lotion, AB LI, CJ Curl Rehab, CJ Argan/Olive, Darcy's Pumpkin
Style: FSG, BRHG
Pre-poo/DT: Conditioner with honey & coconut oil

iHerb discount code: PNQ285
I'm sure you'll guess what I'm going to say. It's the polyquats. I used the generic version of Nexxus Aloe Rid to get rid of them. It does have SLS, but also has chelating agent, so you get rid of any mineral buildup, too. not a bad poo to have around.
CurlyGrey3 likes this.
3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
modified CG, since April '07
CG since 3/11/08

SE PA

HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic (now Hello Curly Curl Stimulater); Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me, Marie Dean Leave Ins and Curl Creams
I'm sure you'll guess what I'm going to say. It's the polyquats. I used the generic version of Nexxus Aloe Rid to get rid of them. It does have SLS, but also has chelating agent, so you get rid of any mineral buildup, too. not a bad poo to have around.
Originally Posted by kathymack
I was hoping you'd chime in. I know you said you couldn't use just any sulfate poo.

The Nexxus Aloe Rid doesn't seem to be available. I see that people want it to help pass drug tests, interesting .... The GVP Clarifying doesn't seem to exist either.

I'll look for a clarifying shampoo at Harmon.
Salt & pepper wavy mix 2B/2C
Low to normal porosity, coarse, kinky, normal elasticity
Current favorites:
Low poo: Yes To Cukes Color Protection (the no sulfate one)
Conditioners: Renpure MPHIP, CJ Smoothing Lotion, AB LI, CJ Curl Rehab, CJ Argan/Olive, Darcy's Pumpkin
Style: FSG, BRHG
Pre-poo/DT: Conditioner with honey & coconut oil

iHerb discount code: PNQ285
I'm sure you'll guess what I'm going to say. It's the polyquats. I used the generic version of Nexxus Aloe Rid to get rid of them. It does have SLS, but also has chelating agent, so you get rid of any mineral buildup, too. not a bad poo to have around.
Originally Posted by kathymack
I was hoping you'd chime in. I know you said you couldn't use just any sulfate poo.

The Nexxus Aloe Rid doesn't seem to be available. I see that people want it to help pass drug tests, interesting .... The GVP Clarifying doesn't seem to exist either.

I'll look for a clarifying shampoo at Harmon.
Originally Posted by CurlyGrey3
I don't think I said that you couldn't use any sulfate shampoo. I just used that one, because I have it. I think if you use something with a stronger surfactant, it should remove it. Coco b just doesn't do it, for me.

Shampoo I keep around for most issues has Sodum C14-C16 Olefin Sulfonate (Donna Marie.) Everything I've read said it's one of the more stripping ones, but I haven't had issues with it. I only lowpoo a few times a year, if I use an ingredient my hair doesn't like. The SLS is usually one a year to start with a fresh "slate."
CurlyGrey3 likes this.
3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
modified CG, since April '07
CG since 3/11/08

SE PA

HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic (now Hello Curly Curl Stimulater); Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me, Marie Dean Leave Ins and Curl Creams
Oh, that's what I'm misrepresenting. I thought you had said the Sodum C14-C16 Olefin Sulfonate was necessary to remove the polyquats.

I bought Suave Daily Clarifying shampoo. I hope it will do the job.

Thanks, all!
Salt & pepper wavy mix 2B/2C
Low to normal porosity, coarse, kinky, normal elasticity
Current favorites:
Low poo: Yes To Cukes Color Protection (the no sulfate one)
Conditioners: Renpure MPHIP, CJ Smoothing Lotion, AB LI, CJ Curl Rehab, CJ Argan/Olive, Darcy's Pumpkin
Style: FSG, BRHG
Pre-poo/DT: Conditioner with honey & coconut oil

iHerb discount code: PNQ285
Ugh, the online listing says the Suave has polyquat 10, which I want to avoid in a clarifying shampoo. I swear I read the list on the bottle more than once. I'll have to return it and find something else.
Salt & pepper wavy mix 2B/2C
Low to normal porosity, coarse, kinky, normal elasticity
Current favorites:
Low poo: Yes To Cukes Color Protection (the no sulfate one)
Conditioners: Renpure MPHIP, CJ Smoothing Lotion, AB LI, CJ Curl Rehab, CJ Argan/Olive, Darcy's Pumpkin
Style: FSG, BRHG
Pre-poo/DT: Conditioner with honey & coconut oil

iHerb discount code: PNQ285
Following up... After a sulfate poo and a PT a few days later my hair is so much better. I'm still having more frizz when wet then I was, but I'll try an ACV rinse and maybe some more protein.

Thanks for the help!
Salt & pepper wavy mix 2B/2C
Low to normal porosity, coarse, kinky, normal elasticity
Current favorites:
Low poo: Yes To Cukes Color Protection (the no sulfate one)
Conditioners: Renpure MPHIP, CJ Smoothing Lotion, AB LI, CJ Curl Rehab, CJ Argan/Olive, Darcy's Pumpkin
Style: FSG, BRHG
Pre-poo/DT: Conditioner with honey & coconut oil

iHerb discount code: PNQ285
Hmm, I think I better find my reading glasses and see if I have polyquats in any of my products. Thanks for this thread! (And I use reading glasses in the store when I'm carefully looking at hair product ingredients, too)
CurlyGrey3 likes this.
Following up... After a sulfate poo and a PT a few days later my hair is so much better. I'm still having more frizz when wet then I was, but I'll try an ACV rinse and maybe some more protein.

Thanks for the help!
Originally Posted by CurlyGrey3
Hate to say this, but if you've been using the products with the polyquats for a while, it may take a few shampoos to get rid of everything. It's been a while since I discovered that my hair didn't like polyquats, so I don't remember how many it took--however, it was a few. Now, if I use a one product, one time, it does come out with one shampoo with a stronger surfactant (coco b doesn't do it for me.)
CurlyGrey3 likes this.
3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
modified CG, since April '07
CG since 3/11/08

SE PA

HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic (now Hello Curly Curl Stimulater); Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me, Marie Dean Leave Ins and Curl Creams
when i need to remove something from my hair that a low poo won't do, i've used prell. easy to buy and it does the trick. a small bottle would probably last me a lifetime+, it's so rare that i need it, thankfully!
CurlyGrey3 likes this.
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3a, some 2c & 3b, medium texture, porosity normal, low elasticity
washing/cowashing, conditioning, protein tx: curl junkie products
leave in:cj conditioners and treatments as leave in
styling: cj pattern pusha, cj honey butta leave in, cj cccc, cj ciab, lalsg. cj aloe fix gel is my high dews/summer HG!!
sealants - spiral solutions emollience butter, jane carter nourish & shine
I'll keep that in mind, Kathy, if it doesn't go back to normal. I'm so new at this that I'm terrible at diagnosing what my hair needs!
Salt & pepper wavy mix 2B/2C
Low to normal porosity, coarse, kinky, normal elasticity
Current favorites:
Low poo: Yes To Cukes Color Protection (the no sulfate one)
Conditioners: Renpure MPHIP, CJ Smoothing Lotion, AB LI, CJ Curl Rehab, CJ Argan/Olive, Darcy's Pumpkin
Style: FSG, BRHG
Pre-poo/DT: Conditioner with honey & coconut oil

iHerb discount code: PNQ285
When I had terrible quat buildup from Biotera gel, I had to wash twice. I've never had it since, and some of my products have quats, granted they are low on the ingredients list. Biotera has a quat as the 2nd ingredient- I learned my lesson!!!
CurlyGrey3 likes this.
2C/ Coarse/ Normal porosity/ SW Florida/ Salt & Pepper
Cleanse: CJ Daily Fix, JC Cleansing Cream, TJ Tea Tree Condish
Condish: JC Too Shea, CJ Curl Rehab (both as RO & LI)
Stylers: UFD CM, CJ PP, JC Spiralicious, Darcy's Cream Gel & Cocoa bean whip
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 939
I used a sulfate shampoo after I shampoo'ed with my low poo twice to get polyquat 10 out of my hair. I let the Suave sit in my hair for about 10 minutes. I was that paranoid. I didn't use that polyquat for more than five days.

Instead of CIAB, it should be called Build Up in a Bottle.

*Oh and I'm sure you've figured this out, but my emergency bottle of Suave Juicy Apple Shampoo doesn't contain a polyquat, though the website says it does. The ingredient seemed to have changed overall and there hasn't been an update.
CurlyGrey3 likes this.

Last edited by Jessiebanana; 07-07-2013 at 11:17 PM.
The past 3 washes my hair has been frizzy while wet and worse when dry. Today I low-pood (Renpure argan oil knockoff), conditioned (rinse out) with Tresemme Naturals, and when I got out of the shower I already had a good amount of frizz.

This started on Friday. On Wednesday I used Deva No Poo, which I know has a polyquat (7). My hair looked normal on Wednesday. On Friday I used Dermorganic low poo for the first time. Saturday I tried a deep condition (Suave naturals coconut, honey, coconut oil, a few drops protein filler) and cowash.

The only other products in my hair since then have been BRHG and homemade FSG.

Aside from the DemOrganic (which I hated anyway), I've used everything else at least once before without a problem.

The way I see it, either there's something that isn't leaving my hair, or it's one of the two products I used today. If the former, how the heck do I get whatever it is out of my hair? Just a sulfate shampoo? That may be my next step.

If it's something I used today, then it has to be that my hair hates TN, since it's the common thread for the past few days. (And several before that, so I have no idea what's going on).

Any help would be appreciated! I look like a drowned rat at the moment because I tried to go to work in a torrential downpour and had to turn back. I'll probably rewash tomorrow since I don't think this will even be acceptable first day hair. I can go out at lunch and buy whatever I need once I do make it to the office

The ingredients in today's shampoo (Renpure knockoff):

Purified Water, Cocamidopropyl Betaine (Coconut Oil [Derived Source]), Sodium Lauroyl Sarcosinate (Coconut Oil [Derived Source]), Lauryl Glucoside (Coconut Oil [Derived Source]), Decyl Glucoside (Coconut Oil [Derived Source]), Sodium Lauroyl Lactylate (Palm Oil [Derived Source]), PEG-120 Methyl Glucose Dioleate (Rapeseed Oil [Derived Source]), Argania Spinosa (Argan [Derived Source]) Kernel Oil, Hypnea Musciformis Extract (Red Seaweed [Derived Source]), Gellidiela Acerosa Extract (Red Alga [Derived Source]), Sargassum Filipendula Extract (Brown Seaweed [Derived Source]), Sorbitol (Sugar [Derived Source]), Silicone Quaternium-17, Glycol Stearate (Palm Oil [Derived Source]), Polyquaternium-10, Citric Acid (Fruit Acid [Derived Source]), Diazolidinyl Urea, Iodopropynyl Butylcarbamate, Fragrance.

In today's conditioner TN):

Water (Aqua), Stearyl Alcohol, Cetyl Alcohol, Caprylic/Capric Triglyceride, Stearamidopropyl Dimethylamine, Fragrance (Parfum), Lauroyl Lysine, Caprylyl Glycol, Brassica Campestris/Aleurites Fordi Oil Copolymer, Aspartic Acid, Distearyldimonium Chloride, Persea Gratissima (Avocado) Oil (USDA Certified Organic Extracts: Aloe Vera, Sweet Orange, and Avocado), Citric Acid, Alcohol, Isopropyl Alcohol, Aloe Barbadensis Leaf Juice (USDA Certified Organic Extracts: Aloe Vera, Sweet Orange, and Avocado).


Thanks!
Originally Posted by CurlyGrey3
Just an alternative thought for you to consider your combing routine. I am finding that if I finger comb I get terrible frizz. I have to actually use a regular wide tooth comb during cowash and condish and make sure that I carefully rinse. It is really hard to describe, but I noticed when I looked closely at the portions of my hair that were frizzing, that some hairs in my clumps weren't clumping in the same places and that these same clumps were kind of tangly. I took these clumps and carefully combed them with a more fine tooth comb (not too fine, but not wide either) to get the strands separated and rewet and scrunched. I don't know if the tangling is due to polyquats or not, but I find it really helps if I remember to comb well.
CurlyGrey3 likes this.
Type 2B - 3A
Med-High Porosity (partial highlights), medium & corse mixed textures

CG Day 1: May 16, 2013

Poo: CJ Daily Fix Cleansing Condish (as needed)
CO: Tresemme Naturals Vibrantly Smooth Condish
RO&LI: CJ Beauticurls Argan & Olive Oil Daily Hair Condish
Styling: CJ Pattern Pusha or FSG, TRESemme Flawless Curls - Bouncy Curls Defining Gel, Giovanni LANaturals HardHold Gel (canopy only)
DT: CJ Curl Rehab, Coconut oil, SS Repairing PT

Techniques: Scrunch-n-pump, tshirt wrap

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