Dry top layer, different lengths, silicones and polyquats

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Can't easily comment without reading the book because you have paraphrased. Is the wording directly contradictory? What are the scientific references used by LCLF?
Studies on penetration of hydrolysed wheat
The use of radiolabelling techniques to mea... [Int J Cosmet Sci. 1997] - PubMed - NCBI
http://journal.scconline.org/pdf/cc2...193-p00203.pdf

The Natural Haven blog refers to textbooks and published studies so, as a fellow scientist and in the absence of any contradictory research, I'll plump for that. It also fits in with what is known about fatty acids penetrating or not based on size. 'Curl chemist' Tonya McKay's take on it
Proteins: Why You Should Care
Another science based opinion, which brings both 'sides' together somewhat
Revisiting the Idea of Protein Overload | Curly Nikki | Natural Hair Styles and Natural Hair Care
More from Natural Haven
THE NATURAL HAVEN: Moisture Issue: Proteins and moisture levels!

I haven't seen the Gliss mousse but will look out for it, thanks!
Originally Posted by Firefox7275
I can't really see any references listed actually, but I'm reading on my kindle so maybe its just hard to see them. At least I know now that no matter how my hair reacts to AOGPB, it does not mean that its because of the protein in it. Thanks for all your help.

This is the Gliss leave in mousse:
Gliss Kur - ULTIMATE VOLUME - Express Leave -in Mousse Treatment for flat and damaged hair - Pol Store, Inc.
No ingredients listed there though..Cant find them online. But if you want them let me know!
I can't really see any references listed actually, but I'm reading on my kindle so maybe its just hard to see them. At least I know now that no matter how my hair reacts to AOGPB, it does not mean that its because of the protein in it. Thanks for all your help.

This is the Gliss leave in mousse:
Gliss Kur - ULTIMATE VOLUME - Express Leave -in Mousse Treatment for flat and damaged hair - Pol Store, Inc.
No ingredients listed there though..Cant find them online. But if you want them let me know!
Originally Posted by littleschemer
I would be interested in the ingredients if you have time to type them out, thank you for the offer. Doesn't look like the mousse marketed in the UK but I can get it from eBay or Amazon.
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect
I would be interested in the ingredients if you have time to type them out, thank you for the offer. Doesn't look like the mousse marketed in the UK but I can get it from eBay or Amazon.
Originally Posted by Firefox7275
Np! Here they are:
Aqua, Cetrimonium chloride, Hydrolyzed collagen, Panthenol, Cocodimonium hydroxypropyl hydrolyzed keratin, Hydrolyzed keratin, Stearamidopropyl dimethylamine, Phenoxyethanol, Ceteareth-25, PEG-12 Dimethicone, Lactic acid, Dipalmitoyethyl dimonium chloride, Silicone quaternium-22, Sodium methylparaben, VP/VA copolymer, PPG-3 Myristyl ether, Coco-betaine, Polyquaternium-69, Glycerin, Propylene glycol, Parfume, Polyquaternium-10, Styrene/VP copolymer, Alcohol denat, Citric acid, Sodium chloride, PEG-14M, Hexyl cinnamal, Amyl cinnamal, Limonene, Linalool, Benzyl saliylate, Benzyl alcohol, Butylphenyl methylpropional.

The silicone quaternium-22 is "slightly water soluble" according to this page: Silicone quaternium-22 - Surfactants - SAA Pedia
Firefox7275 likes this.
Np! Here they are:
Aqua, Cetrimonium chloride, Hydrolyzed collagen, Panthenol, Cocodimonium hydroxypropyl hydrolyzed keratin, Hydrolyzed keratin, Stearamidopropyl dimethylamine, Phenoxyethanol, Ceteareth-25, PEG-12 Dimethicone, Lactic acid, Dipalmitoyethyl dimonium chloride, Silicone quaternium-22, Sodium methylparaben, VP/VA copolymer, PPG-3 Myristyl ether, Coco-betaine, Polyquaternium-69, Glycerin, Propylene glycol, Parfume, Polyquaternium-10, Styrene/VP copolymer, Alcohol denat, Citric acid, Sodium chloride, PEG-14M, Hexyl cinnamal, Amyl cinnamal, Limonene, Linalool, Benzyl saliylate, Benzyl alcohol, Butylphenyl methylpropional.

The silicone quaternium-22 is "slightly water soluble" according to this page: Silicone quaternium-22 - Surfactants - SAA Pedia
Originally Posted by littleschemer
Thank you for taking the time to do that, much appreciated. So the protein and panthenol are way high up the list just as with the conditioner, interesting. How do you rate the product, what does it do for your hair?

It's funny I have returned to Schwarzkopf Gliss, I used to use a sulphate and silicone heavy shampoo and leave in spray from the line for several years before CG.

ETA there is a hairspray too, lots of drying alcohol of course.
http://www.glisskur.de/glisskur/de/d...-up-spray.html
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect

Last edited by Firefox7275; 07-10-2013 at 10:51 AM.

Thank you for taking the time to do that, much appreciated. So the protein and panthenol are way high up the list just as with the conditioner, interesting. How do you rate the product, what does it do for your hair?

It's funny I have returned to Schwarzkopf Gliss, I used to use a sulphate and silicone heavy shampoo and leave in spray from the line for several years before CG.
Originally Posted by Firefox7275
Haha, I used to hate Gliss! Of some reason I considered it fake. Maybe because of the strong smell. But then I tried the Gliss asia straight one time at my mom's and I was in love.

I only used the mousse twice actually so I haven't completely decided what I think about it. Once in wet hair and once in dry second day hair. Both times it left my hair a bit silicony and stiff. But on dry hair I was still really happy with the result because it made the curls look more defined. Used on wet hair it didn't turn out well. Stiff, silicony and weird waves instead of curls. I think its because it stiffens the hair where it is, so when I put it on wet, wavy hair, it just stays there. I may have used too much also.

Do u see any non water stuff there? Do u know anything about the polyquat-69? I have a little trouble trusting this product.
Haha, I used to hate Gliss! Of some reason I considered it fake. Maybe because of the strong smell. But then I tried the Gliss asia straight one time at my mom's and I was in love.

I only used the mousse twice actually so I haven't completely decided what I think about it. Once in wet hair and once in dry second day hair. Both times it left my hair a bit silicony and stiff. But on dry hair I was still really happy with the result because it made the curls look more defined. Used on wet hair it didn't turn out well. Stiff, silicony and weird waves instead of curls. I think its because it stiffens the hair where it is, so when I put it on wet, wavy hair, it just stays there. I may have used too much also.

Do u see any non water stuff there? Do u know anything about the polyquat-69? I have a little trouble trusting this product.
Originally Posted by littleschemer
This says polyquat-69 is water soluble and good for curl retention and frizz reduction!
Polyquaternium 69 A new Fixative Polymer with Enhanced Styling Benefits Cosmetic Science Technology 2007 pdf free ebook download from online1.ispcorp.com

Hydrolysed protein is also a film former, so can give a sheen
Proteins: Why You Should Care

The only thing that jumps out at me is the silicone quaternium, largely because I don't know anything about it. I might buy it, I like the idea of a mousse that can protect and patch repair hair.
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect
Yeah, the "slightly water soluble" description scares be a little. I tried a bit of the gliss mousse again now on dry second day hair and I liked the result. My hair feels a bit cleaner, stiffer and frizzier. I think its important to only use a little of this stuff.
Tomorrow is wash day and I'm gonna try flax seed gel

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