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-   -   Tips for decreasing bulk? (http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/general-discussion-about-curly-hair/160217-tips-decreasing-bulk.html)

curlicarly 07-07-2013 10:57 AM

Tips for decreasing bulk?
 
I have very very thick 3b/c hair that's *really* made of s-shaped curly wave things. It seems to be a normal volume immediately after conditioning, and even after air drying. After several hours though, my hair puffs up considerably. There's lots of air between the strands. It's so annoying. Is there anything I can do to decrease the levels of bulk besides allowing my hair to dry in a bun or braids? (That causes the dry time to be 2-3 days for me.) Thanks!

Jessiebanana 07-07-2013 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by curlicarly (Post 2188196)
I have very very thick 3b/c hair that's *really* made of s-shaped curly wave things. It seems to be a normal volume immediately after conditioning, and even after air drying. After several hours though, my hair puffs up considerably. There's lots of air between the strands. It's so annoying. Is there anything I can do to decrease the levels of bulk besides allowing my hair to dry in a bun or braids? (That causes the dry time to be 2-3 days for me.) Thanks!

Most people with tightly curly hair need cream or gel styling product to keep down the fluff.

multicultcurly 07-07-2013 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jessiebanana (Post 2188199)
Quote:

Originally Posted by curlicarly (Post 2188196)
I have very very thick 3b/c hair that's *really* made of s-shaped curly wave things. It seems to be a normal volume immediately after conditioning, and even after air drying. After several hours though, my hair puffs up considerably. There's lots of air between the strands. It's so annoying. Is there anything I can do to decrease the levels of bulk besides allowing my hair to dry in a bun or braids? (That causes the dry time to be 2-3 days for me.) Thanks!

Most people with tightly curly hair need cream or gel styling product to keep down the fluff.

And/or leave in conditioner.

Sent from my HTCEVOV4G using CurlTalk App

curlicarly 07-07-2013 11:33 AM

Yeah, that's my problem. I soak my hair in leave-in conditioner and gel, and it still turns out poofy! I don't know what I'm doing wrong.

For reference, this is my hair on a "small" day: http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_md...txwno1_500.jpg

And this is what my hair looks like wet:
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m57i26vIN01qancbe.jpg

Samanthascurlz 07-07-2013 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by curlicarly (Post 2188201)
Yeah, that's my problem. I soak my hair in leave-in conditioner and gel, and it still turns out poofy! I don't know what I'm doing wrong.

For reference, this is my hair on a "small" day: http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_md...txwno1_500.jpg

And this is what my hair looks like wet:
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m57i26vIN01qancbe.jpg

your hair seems full of volume, beautiful!

Firefox7275 07-07-2013 11:58 AM

What is your full routine at present?

I think it looks pretty, but if you don't like it you need better clumping, which means way more leave in conditioner (especially containing fatty alcohols) and/ or way more styling cream, maybe make your gel into something like an Ecostyler custard by adding oil. Try doubling what you use at present and see how that works. Also be sure everything is around pH 4.5 to 5.5 and you avoid all anionic surfactants not just sulphates which alter the charge on the hair and can contribute to frizz.

Be sure to consider your dew points/ humidity and hair properties when choosing products: humectants such as glycerin in very high or low dews can give frizz, porous hair may need a lot of coconut oil to make it less porous.

Jessiebanana 07-07-2013 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by curlicarly (Post 2188201)
Yeah, that's my problem. I soak my hair in leave-in conditioner and gel, and it still turns out poofy! I don't know what I'm doing wrong.

For reference, this is my hair on a "small" day: http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_md...txwno1_500.jpg

And this is what my hair looks like wet:
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m57i26vIN01qancbe.jpg

You could have more curl definition and "smoothness", but that's going to be the size of your hair either way. Most people with tightly curly hair have a lot of volume. Especially if you have finer hair the difference wet versus dry can be very dramatic.

curlicarly 07-07-2013 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firefox7275 (Post 2188207)
What is your full routine at present?

I think it looks pretty, but if you don't like it you need better clumping, which means way more leave in conditioner (especially containing fatty alcohols) and/ or way more styling cream, maybe make your gel into something like an Ecostyler custard by adding oil. Try doubling what you use at present and see how that works. Also be sure everything is around pH 4.5 to 5.5 and you avoid all anionic surfactants not just sulphates which alter the charge on the hair and can contribute to frizz.

Be sure to consider your dew points/ humidity and hair properties when choosing products: humectants such as glycerin in very high or low dews can give frizz, porous hair may need a lot of coconut oil to make it less porous.

These days I've been conditioning with Herbal Essences Hello Hydration (mostly because it's cheap and I use so much.) I use handfuls on handfuls on handfuls of conditioner. -I know it has cones in it. I tried to go completely silicone free a few years back, but I actually missed the slip/fake hydration that cones gave me.
I partially rinse the conditioner out, scrunch out some water with a t-shirt, seal with coconut oil and then HESMU gel on top.

I'm actually not sure about my porosity, because it seems to absorb everything I throw at it, but then it takes days to dry. Could I really mix oil and gel together?

KiraSavannah 07-07-2013 02:24 PM

What shampoo do you use?
Quote:

Originally Posted by curlicarly (Post 2188220)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Firefox7275 (Post 2188207)
What is your full routine at present?



Be sure to consider your dew points/ humidity and hair properties when choosing products: humectants such as glycerin in very high or low dews can give frizz, porous hair may need a lot of coconut oil to make it less porous.

These days I've been conditioning with Herbal Essences Hello Hydration (mostly because it's cheap and I use so much.) I use handfuls on handfuls on handfuls of conditioner. -I know it has cones in it. I tried to go completely silicone free a few years back, but I actually missed the slip/fake hydration that cones gave me.
I partially rinse the conditioner out, scrunch out some water with a t-shirt, seal with coconut oil and then HESMU gel on top.

I'm actually not sure about my porosity, because it seems to absorb everything I throw at it, but then it takes days to dry. Could I really mix oil and gel together?



Sent from my SGH-T999 using CurlTalk App

curlicarly 07-07-2013 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KiraSavannah (Post 2188246)
What shampoo do you use?


Sent from my SGH-T999 using CurlTalk App

I mostly co-wash, but when I need to shampoo, I'll use HE hello hydration shampoo. (About once a month)

Jessiebanana 07-07-2013 02:46 PM

Your hair may be frizzing from the build up of the cones. Cones in and of themselves aren't bad, but if you're only shampoo'ing once a month it becomes a problem. If you really want to keep using this conditioner you might want to switch to a low poo and cleanse your hair more often.

Firefox7275 07-07-2013 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by curlicarly (Post 2188220)
These days I've been conditioning with Herbal Essences Hello Hydration (mostly because it's cheap and I use so much.) I use handfuls on handfuls on handfuls of conditioner. -I know it has cones in it. I tried to go completely silicone free a few years back, but I actually missed the slip/fake hydration that cones gave me.
I partially rinse the conditioner out, scrunch out some water with a t-shirt, seal with coconut oil and then HESMU gel on top.

I'm actually not sure about my porosity, because it seems to absorb everything I throw at it, but then it takes days to dry. Could I really mix oil and gel together?

Agree with Jessiebanana build up could be one issue, handfuls of a lightweight yet coney conditioner doesn't work with conditioner only washing. That is surely not your full routine, are you using a leave in conditioner, deep conditioning and protein treating?

The build up could also be slowing your hair drying, your routine seems focussed on occlusives/ sealants (coconut oil and silicones), it's not clear that this is balanced with emollients, humectants or protein. Silicones do not aid clumping they can increase frizz or cause stringy hair in excess.

It's up to you whether you use silicones or not, but it seems to me your modified routine is not giving you the hair you seek. For slip use products at pH ~4.5, conditioners containing a behentrimonium high in the ingredients, aloe vera juice if your dew points permit, for clumping plenty of fatty alcohol rich conditioner.

DIY Ecostyler custard, no reason why you cannot make it with other gels
Eco Styler Olive Oil Custard - YouTube
You can also make your own leave in with Kinky Curly Knot Today (Kimmaytube's recipe) which is notorious for slip/ detangling.

curlicarly 07-07-2013 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firefox7275 (Post 2188264)
Quote:

Originally Posted by curlicarly (Post 2188220)
These days I've been conditioning with Herbal Essences Hello Hydration (mostly because it's cheap and I use so much.) I use handfuls on handfuls on handfuls of conditioner. -I know it has cones in it. I tried to go completely silicone free a few years back, but I actually missed the slip/fake hydration that cones gave me.
I partially rinse the conditioner out, scrunch out some water with a t-shirt, seal with coconut oil and then HESMU gel on top.

I'm actually not sure about my porosity, because it seems to absorb everything I throw at it, but then it takes days to dry. Could I really mix oil and gel together?

Agree with Jessiebanana build up could be one issue, handfuls of a lightweight yet coney conditioner doesn't work with conditioner only washing. That is surely not your full routine, are you using a leave in conditioner, deep conditioning and protein treating?

The build up could also be slowing your hair drying, your routine seems focussed on occlusives/ sealants (coconut oil and silicones), it's not clear that this is balanced with emollients, humectants or protein. Silicones do not aid clumping they can increase frizz or cause stringy hair in excess.

It's up to you whether you use silicones or not, but it seems to me your modified routine is not giving you the hair you seek. For slip use products at pH ~4.5, conditioners containing a behentrimonium high in the ingredients, aloe vera juice if your dew points permit, for clumping plenty of fatty alcohol rich conditioner.

DIY Ecostyler custard, no reason why you cannot make it with other gels
Eco Styler Olive Oil Custard - YouTube
You can also make your own leave in with Kinky Curly Knot Today (Kimmaytube's recipe) which is notorious for slip/ detangling.

I do deep condition every now and then, usually with olive oil and honey. I tend to stay away from protein though because it seems like it dries my hair.

Thanks for the recommendations! Some questions: how can you tell what pH a product is at? And which alcohols are considered fatty? I'm willing to try going cone-free again, I'm just pretty uneducated. Just bought AOHR conditioner to get started.

Firefox7275 07-07-2013 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by curlicarly (Post 2188283)
I do deep condition every now and then, usually with olive oil and honey. I tend to stay away from protein though because it seems like it dries my hair.

Thanks for the recommendations! Some questions: how can you tell what pH a product is at? And which alcohols are considered fatty? I'm willing to try going cone-free again, I'm just pretty uneducated. Just bought AOHR conditioner to get started.

Try weekly overnight coconut oil soaks to reduce your porosity since you have it to hand. The lauric acid is a smaller molecule than the oleic acid in olive oil so will penetrate better, it's also associated with increased elasticity and is more 'slippy' which can help with clumping.

Some companies advertise the pH (eg. Komaza Care, As I Am, Dermorganic are 4.5 to 5.5), some are listed on the Natural Haven blog, otherwise purchase some pH test strips. Note that oils don't have a pH only water based products. All conditioners should be slightly acidic but there is a lot of variation
THE NATURAL HAVEN: pH of Conditioners
THE NATURAL HAVEN: pH of Shampoo : The Ultimate List!
THE NATURAL HAVEN: pH of Leave In Conditioners and Styling Aids

Fatty alcohols are listed in the 'curl chemist' articles here on NC, the whole series is worth a read
Ingredients Commonly Found in Hair Care Products

curlicarly 07-07-2013 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firefox7275 (Post 2188290)
Quote:

Originally Posted by curlicarly (Post 2188283)
I do deep condition every now and then, usually with olive oil and honey. I tend to stay away from protein though because it seems like it dries my hair.

Thanks for the recommendations! Some questions: how can you tell what pH a product is at? And which alcohols are considered fatty? I'm willing to try going cone-free again, I'm just pretty uneducated. Just bought AOHR conditioner to get started.

Try weekly overnight coconut oil soaks to reduce your porosity since you have it to hand. The lauric acid is a smaller molecule than the oleic acid in olive oil so will penetrate better, it's also associated with increased elasticity and is more 'slippy' which can help with clumping.

Some companies advertise the pH (eg. Komaza Care, As I Am, Dermorganic are 4.5 to 5.5), some are listed on the Natural Haven blog, otherwise purchase some pH test strips. Note that oils don't have a pH only water based products. All conditioners should be slightly acidic but there is a lot of variation
THE NATURAL HAVEN: pH of Conditioners
THE NATURAL HAVEN: pH of Shampoo : The Ultimate List!
THE NATURAL HAVEN: pH of Leave In Conditioners and Styling Aids

Fatty alcohols are listed in the 'curl chemist' articles here on NC, the whole series is worth a read
Ingredients Commonly Found in Hair Care Products

WOW thank you so much for this wealth of information! I'm so determined to find the right products/methods now.

wavydaze 07-07-2013 09:20 PM

curlicarli... I'll trade some of my flatness for some of your volume! ;)

I don't worry too much about the pH of my shower products (shampoo, rinse-out conditioner) as long as they are lower than the pH of 7 (the pH of water). I figure I'm rinsing them off with water which is diluting them and raising the pH anyway. It's a good idea however to have leave-in conditioner and styling products be at a "happy pH" of 4.5-5.5. :)

Jessiebanana 07-07-2013 09:41 PM

I love how every single one on my HGs manages to not be on that list. It's okay though, I'm rocking the ignorance is bliss thing :tongue3:.

multicultcurly 07-07-2013 10:15 PM

I also think going with a heavier conditioner than HE would help. Your hair frames your face nicely but as a person with a lot of a natural volume, I understand. Aubrey Organics Honeysuckle Rose may be worth a try.

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curlicarly 07-08-2013 05:44 PM

Thanks guys! I really appreciate your suggestions. Anything you recommend in particular for weather with super high dew points? Atlanta here...

KiraSavannah 07-08-2013 06:23 PM

Jessiebanana is definitely right, I had bad cone build up,herbal essence shampoo and conditioner both have cones, when going cone free make sure to do the last wash with a cone free poo, like garnier pure clean :)
Quote:

Originally Posted by curlicarly (Post 2188250)
Quote:

Originally Posted by KiraSavannah (Post 2188246)
What shampoo do you use?


Sent from my SGH-T999 using CurlTalk App

I mostly co-wash, but when I need to shampoo, I'll use HE hello hydration shampoo. (About once a month)



Sent from my SGH-T999 using CurlTalk App


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