Tips for decreasing bulk?

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I have very very thick 3b/c hair that's *really* made of s-shaped curly wave things. It seems to be a normal volume immediately after conditioning, and even after air drying. After several hours though, my hair puffs up considerably. There's lots of air between the strands. It's so annoying. Is there anything I can do to decrease the levels of bulk besides allowing my hair to dry in a bun or braids? (That causes the dry time to be 2-3 days for me.) Thanks!
3b/c coarse, porous (I think), and THICK! Mod CG since: 10/11/08
Avoiding humectants and protein!
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 939
I have very very thick 3b/c hair that's *really* made of s-shaped curly wave things. It seems to be a normal volume immediately after conditioning, and even after air drying. After several hours though, my hair puffs up considerably. There's lots of air between the strands. It's so annoying. Is there anything I can do to decrease the levels of bulk besides allowing my hair to dry in a bun or braids? (That causes the dry time to be 2-3 days for me.) Thanks!
Originally Posted by curlicarly
Most people with tightly curly hair need cream or gel styling product to keep down the fluff.
I have very very thick 3b/c hair that's *really* made of s-shaped curly wave things. It seems to be a normal volume immediately after conditioning, and even after air drying. After several hours though, my hair puffs up considerably. There's lots of air between the strands. It's so annoying. Is there anything I can do to decrease the levels of bulk besides allowing my hair to dry in a bun or braids? (That causes the dry time to be 2-3 days for me.) Thanks!
Originally Posted by curlicarly
Most people with tightly curly hair need cream or gel styling product to keep down the fluff.
Originally Posted by Jessiebanana
And/or leave in conditioner.

Sent from my HTCEVOV4G using CurlTalk App
3b/c, medium-coarse, low porosity, high density
HG: Jessicurl Too Shea and Kinky Curly Curling Custard
Shampoo: nonsulfate shampoo and Suave Naturals sulfate shampoo when needed
Yeah, that's my problem. I soak my hair in leave-in conditioner and gel, and it still turns out poofy! I don't know what I'm doing wrong.

For reference, this is my hair on a "small" day: http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_md...txwno1_500.jpg

And this is what my hair looks like wet:
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m57i26vIN01qancbe.jpg
3b/c coarse, porous (I think), and THICK! Mod CG since: 10/11/08
Avoiding humectants and protein!
Yeah, that's my problem. I soak my hair in leave-in conditioner and gel, and it still turns out poofy! I don't know what I'm doing wrong.

For reference, this is my hair on a "small" day: http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_md...txwno1_500.jpg

And this is what my hair looks like wet:
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m57i26vIN01qancbe.jpg
Originally Posted by curlicarly
your hair seems full of volume, beautiful!
High Porosity, Fine, Thin Density, Low Elasticity
Natures Gate hemp for co-washing, detangling, and leave in + CO.
Curls
What is your full routine at present?

I think it looks pretty, but if you don't like it you need better clumping, which means way more leave in conditioner (especially containing fatty alcohols) and/ or way more styling cream, maybe make your gel into something like an Ecostyler custard by adding oil. Try doubling what you use at present and see how that works. Also be sure everything is around pH 4.5 to 5.5 and you avoid all anionic surfactants not just sulphates which alter the charge on the hair and can contribute to frizz.

Be sure to consider your dew points/ humidity and hair properties when choosing products: humectants such as glycerin in very high or low dews can give frizz, porous hair may need a lot of coconut oil to make it less porous.
lifescout likes this.
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Boots Essentials gel
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 939
Yeah, that's my problem. I soak my hair in leave-in conditioner and gel, and it still turns out poofy! I don't know what I'm doing wrong.

For reference, this is my hair on a "small" day: http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_md...txwno1_500.jpg

And this is what my hair looks like wet:
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m57i26vIN01qancbe.jpg
Originally Posted by curlicarly
You could have more curl definition and "smoothness", but that's going to be the size of your hair either way. Most people with tightly curly hair have a lot of volume. Especially if you have finer hair the difference wet versus dry can be very dramatic.
What is your full routine at present?

I think it looks pretty, but if you don't like it you need better clumping, which means way more leave in conditioner (especially containing fatty alcohols) and/ or way more styling cream, maybe make your gel into something like an Ecostyler custard by adding oil. Try doubling what you use at present and see how that works. Also be sure everything is around pH 4.5 to 5.5 and you avoid all anionic surfactants not just sulphates which alter the charge on the hair and can contribute to frizz.

Be sure to consider your dew points/ humidity and hair properties when choosing products: humectants such as glycerin in very high or low dews can give frizz, porous hair may need a lot of coconut oil to make it less porous.
Originally Posted by Firefox7275
These days I've been conditioning with Herbal Essences Hello Hydration (mostly because it's cheap and I use so much.) I use handfuls on handfuls on handfuls of conditioner. -I know it has cones in it. I tried to go completely silicone free a few years back, but I actually missed the slip/fake hydration that cones gave me.
I partially rinse the conditioner out, scrunch out some water with a t-shirt, seal with coconut oil and then HESMU gel on top.

I'm actually not sure about my porosity, because it seems to absorb everything I throw at it, but then it takes days to dry. Could I really mix oil and gel together?
3b/c coarse, porous (I think), and THICK! Mod CG since: 10/11/08
Avoiding humectants and protein!
What shampoo do you use?
What is your full routine at present?



Be sure to consider your dew points/ humidity and hair properties when choosing products: humectants such as glycerin in very high or low dews can give frizz, porous hair may need a lot of coconut oil to make it less porous.
Originally Posted by Firefox7275
These days I've been conditioning with Herbal Essences Hello Hydration (mostly because it's cheap and I use so much.) I use handfuls on handfuls on handfuls of conditioner. -I know it has cones in it. I tried to go completely silicone free a few years back, but I actually missed the slip/fake hydration that cones gave me.
I partially rinse the conditioner out, scrunch out some water with a t-shirt, seal with coconut oil and then HESMU gel on top.

I'm actually not sure about my porosity, because it seems to absorb everything I throw at it, but then it takes days to dry. Could I really mix oil and gel together?
Originally Posted by curlicarly


Sent from my SGH-T999 using CurlTalk App
CG/LOC Method's 3b/3c hair SL-Curly/ Goal-MBL Curly
Weekly Poo/Low Poo: some Shea M Poo.
Weekly Deep Treat-Dermorganic Intensive Hair Masque
Bi-Weekly RO:Tresseme Naturals - V.Smooth/N.Moisture
Daily Leave in:Shea Moisture Extra Moisture Detangler
Daily Oil: Olive Oil & Conut Oil Mix
Daily Styler: Shea Moisture Curl & Style Milk
What shampoo do you use?


Sent from my SGH-T999 using CurlTalk App
Originally Posted by KiraSavannah
I mostly co-wash, but when I need to shampoo, I'll use HE hello hydration shampoo. (About once a month)
3b/c coarse, porous (I think), and THICK! Mod CG since: 10/11/08
Avoiding humectants and protein!
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 939
Your hair may be frizzing from the build up of the cones. Cones in and of themselves aren't bad, but if you're only shampoo'ing once a month it becomes a problem. If you really want to keep using this conditioner you might want to switch to a low poo and cleanse your hair more often.
dusalocks and wavydaze like this.
These days I've been conditioning with Herbal Essences Hello Hydration (mostly because it's cheap and I use so much.) I use handfuls on handfuls on handfuls of conditioner. -I know it has cones in it. I tried to go completely silicone free a few years back, but I actually missed the slip/fake hydration that cones gave me.
I partially rinse the conditioner out, scrunch out some water with a t-shirt, seal with coconut oil and then HESMU gel on top.

I'm actually not sure about my porosity, because it seems to absorb everything I throw at it, but then it takes days to dry. Could I really mix oil and gel together?
Originally Posted by curlicarly
Agree with Jessiebanana build up could be one issue, handfuls of a lightweight yet coney conditioner doesn't work with conditioner only washing. That is surely not your full routine, are you using a leave in conditioner, deep conditioning and protein treating?

The build up could also be slowing your hair drying, your routine seems focussed on occlusives/ sealants (coconut oil and silicones), it's not clear that this is balanced with emollients, humectants or protein. Silicones do not aid clumping they can increase frizz or cause stringy hair in excess.

It's up to you whether you use silicones or not, but it seems to me your modified routine is not giving you the hair you seek. For slip use products at pH ~4.5, conditioners containing a behentrimonium high in the ingredients, aloe vera juice if your dew points permit, for clumping plenty of fatty alcohol rich conditioner.

DIY Ecostyler custard, no reason why you cannot make it with other gels
Eco Styler Olive Oil Custard - YouTube
You can also make your own leave in with Kinky Curly Knot Today (Kimmaytube's recipe) which is notorious for slip/ detangling.
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Boots Essentials gel
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect
These days I've been conditioning with Herbal Essences Hello Hydration (mostly because it's cheap and I use so much.) I use handfuls on handfuls on handfuls of conditioner. -I know it has cones in it. I tried to go completely silicone free a few years back, but I actually missed the slip/fake hydration that cones gave me.
I partially rinse the conditioner out, scrunch out some water with a t-shirt, seal with coconut oil and then HESMU gel on top.

I'm actually not sure about my porosity, because it seems to absorb everything I throw at it, but then it takes days to dry. Could I really mix oil and gel together?
Originally Posted by curlicarly
Agree with Jessiebanana build up could be one issue, handfuls of a lightweight yet coney conditioner doesn't work with conditioner only washing. That is surely not your full routine, are you using a leave in conditioner, deep conditioning and protein treating?

The build up could also be slowing your hair drying, your routine seems focussed on occlusives/ sealants (coconut oil and silicones), it's not clear that this is balanced with emollients, humectants or protein. Silicones do not aid clumping they can increase frizz or cause stringy hair in excess.

It's up to you whether you use silicones or not, but it seems to me your modified routine is not giving you the hair you seek. For slip use products at pH ~4.5, conditioners containing a behentrimonium high in the ingredients, aloe vera juice if your dew points permit, for clumping plenty of fatty alcohol rich conditioner.

DIY Ecostyler custard, no reason why you cannot make it with other gels
Eco Styler Olive Oil Custard - YouTube
You can also make your own leave in with Kinky Curly Knot Today (Kimmaytube's recipe) which is notorious for slip/ detangling.
Originally Posted by Firefox7275
I do deep condition every now and then, usually with olive oil and honey. I tend to stay away from protein though because it seems like it dries my hair.

Thanks for the recommendations! Some questions: how can you tell what pH a product is at? And which alcohols are considered fatty? I'm willing to try going cone-free again, I'm just pretty uneducated. Just bought AOHR conditioner to get started.
3b/c coarse, porous (I think), and THICK! Mod CG since: 10/11/08
Avoiding humectants and protein!
I do deep condition every now and then, usually with olive oil and honey. I tend to stay away from protein though because it seems like it dries my hair.

Thanks for the recommendations! Some questions: how can you tell what pH a product is at? And which alcohols are considered fatty? I'm willing to try going cone-free again, I'm just pretty uneducated. Just bought AOHR conditioner to get started.
Originally Posted by curlicarly
Try weekly overnight coconut oil soaks to reduce your porosity since you have it to hand. The lauric acid is a smaller molecule than the oleic acid in olive oil so will penetrate better, it's also associated with increased elasticity and is more 'slippy' which can help with clumping.

Some companies advertise the pH (eg. Komaza Care, As I Am, Dermorganic are 4.5 to 5.5), some are listed on the Natural Haven blog, otherwise purchase some pH test strips. Note that oils don't have a pH only water based products. All conditioners should be slightly acidic but there is a lot of variation
THE NATURAL HAVEN: pH of Conditioners
THE NATURAL HAVEN: pH of Shampoo : The Ultimate List!
THE NATURAL HAVEN: pH of Leave In Conditioners and Styling Aids

Fatty alcohols are listed in the 'curl chemist' articles here on NC, the whole series is worth a read
Ingredients Commonly Found in Hair Care Products
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Boots Essentials gel
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect
I do deep condition every now and then, usually with olive oil and honey. I tend to stay away from protein though because it seems like it dries my hair.

Thanks for the recommendations! Some questions: how can you tell what pH a product is at? And which alcohols are considered fatty? I'm willing to try going cone-free again, I'm just pretty uneducated. Just bought AOHR conditioner to get started.
Originally Posted by curlicarly
Try weekly overnight coconut oil soaks to reduce your porosity since you have it to hand. The lauric acid is a smaller molecule than the oleic acid in olive oil so will penetrate better, it's also associated with increased elasticity and is more 'slippy' which can help with clumping.

Some companies advertise the pH (eg. Komaza Care, As I Am, Dermorganic are 4.5 to 5.5), some are listed on the Natural Haven blog, otherwise purchase some pH test strips. Note that oils don't have a pH only water based products. All conditioners should be slightly acidic but there is a lot of variation
THE NATURAL HAVEN: pH of Conditioners
THE NATURAL HAVEN: pH of Shampoo : The Ultimate List!
THE NATURAL HAVEN: pH of Leave In Conditioners and Styling Aids

Fatty alcohols are listed in the 'curl chemist' articles here on NC, the whole series is worth a read
Ingredients Commonly Found in Hair Care Products
Originally Posted by Firefox7275
WOW thank you so much for this wealth of information! I'm so determined to find the right products/methods now.
3b/c coarse, porous (I think), and THICK! Mod CG since: 10/11/08
Avoiding humectants and protein!
curlicarli... I'll trade some of my flatness for some of your volume!

I don't worry too much about the pH of my shower products (shampoo, rinse-out conditioner) as long as they are lower than the pH of 7 (the pH of water). I figure I'm rinsing them off with water which is diluting them and raising the pH anyway. It's a good idea however to have leave-in conditioner and styling products be at a "happy pH" of 4.5-5.5.
fine - normal porosity*?- medium density - normal elasticity. Hard water. SoCal.
*Used to be low-porosity, but I lightened my hair 1-2 shades, so I may be normal-porosity now.

New climate! Current favorites:
Low-poo: CJ Gentle Cleansing Shampoo, Giovanni SaS
RO: V05 Kiwi Lime
Styler: UFD CM (old formula), FSG + CNPF
PT: CJ Repair Me, IAgirl's gelatine

Experimenting with: JC Confident Coils, JC Rockin Ringlets, CJ CIAB, gelatin gel

iherb discount code: CFN646
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 939
I love how every single one on my HGs manages to not be on that list. It's okay though, I'm rocking the ignorance is bliss thing .
I also think going with a heavier conditioner than HE would help. Your hair frames your face nicely but as a person with a lot of a natural volume, I understand. Aubrey Organics Honeysuckle Rose may be worth a try.

Sent from my HTCEVOV4G using CurlTalk App
3b/c, medium-coarse, low porosity, high density
HG: Jessicurl Too Shea and Kinky Curly Curling Custard
Shampoo: nonsulfate shampoo and Suave Naturals sulfate shampoo when needed
Thanks guys! I really appreciate your suggestions. Anything you recommend in particular for weather with super high dew points? Atlanta here...
3b/c coarse, porous (I think), and THICK! Mod CG since: 10/11/08
Avoiding humectants and protein!
Jessiebanana is definitely right, I had bad cone build up,herbal essence shampoo and conditioner both have cones, when going cone free make sure to do the last wash with a cone free poo, like garnier pure clean
What shampoo do you use?


Sent from my SGH-T999 using CurlTalk App
Originally Posted by KiraSavannah
I mostly co-wash, but when I need to shampoo, I'll use HE hello hydration shampoo. (About once a month)
Originally Posted by curlicarly


Sent from my SGH-T999 using CurlTalk App
CG/LOC Method's 3b/3c hair SL-Curly/ Goal-MBL Curly
Weekly Poo/Low Poo: some Shea M Poo.
Weekly Deep Treat-Dermorganic Intensive Hair Masque
Bi-Weekly RO:Tresseme Naturals - V.Smooth/N.Moisture
Daily Leave in:Shea Moisture Extra Moisture Detangler
Daily Oil: Olive Oil & Conut Oil Mix
Daily Styler: Shea Moisture Curl & Style Milk

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