Could I need MORE protein?

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Are you recommending the Caitllin's or the SS Repairing? The SS Repairing ingredients are:

Distilled Water, Hydrolyzed Keratin, Oryza Sativa (Rice) Bran Oil, Stearyl Alcohol, Hydrolyzed Wheat Protein (and) Hydrolyzed Wheat Starch, Cocodimonium Hydroxypropyl Hydrolyzed Rice Protein, Hydrolyzed Oats, Glyceryl Stearate (and) Cetearyl Alcohol (and) Sodium Stearoyl Lactylate, Glycol Stearate, Cetyl Alcohol, Behentrimonium Chloride, Hydrolyzed Jojoba Protein, Panthenol, Keratin Amino Acids, Sodium PCA, Caprylic/Capric Triglycerides (and) Achillea Millefolium (Yarrow) leaf Extract (and) Salvia Officinalis (Sage) Leaf Extract (and) Equisetum Arvense (Horsetail) Extract (and) Urtica Dioica (Nettle) Leaf Extract, Lavandula Angustifolia (Lavender) Flower Extract, Arctium Lappa (Burdock) Root Extract, Helianthus Annuus (Sunflower) Extract, Olea europaea (Olive) Leaf Extract, Phenoxyethanol (and) Benzoic Acid (and) Dehydroacetic Acid, Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride, Fragrance, Citric Acid.
Salt & pepper wavy mix 2B/2C
Low to normal porosity, coarse, kinky, normal elasticity
Current favorites:
Low poo: Yes To Cukes Color Protection (the no sulfate one)
Conditioners: Renpure MPHIP, CJ Smoothing Lotion, AB LI, CJ Curl Rehab, CJ Argan/Olive, Darcy's Pumpkin
Style: FSG, BRHG
Pre-poo/DT: Conditioner with honey & coconut oil

iHerb discount code: PNQ285
I've been following this thread because I'm having similar issues and I think my hair properties are close to the OP.

Firefox - your explanation matches my experience. My hair was curlier and less flyaway after I did the gelatin PT, but it didn't last. I feel like I need to do another one after only a couple of washes.

I guess the right thing to do it use smaller amounts of protein in more products and/or do longer treatments with protein or coconut oil. I might have to try overnight coconut oil again, but with much less oil next time.

What problem did you have with cetyl esters? Is that the same as emollient esters? If so, Tonya McKay mentions them as a potentially problematic occlusive agent in this article:

Hair Moisturizer vs. Emollients
Originally Posted by CurlyGrey3
Cetyl esters are indeed an emollient ester.
Cetyl Esters-Conditioners, Thickeners, & Structural Agents-Home-Blending Nature and Science - Innovative Natural...

My curls were poorly defined, weighed down and totally limp IIRC. Initially I thought I was overconditioned which seemed strange given I have damaged porous hair, then read the conditioner ingredients and found amodimethicone and cetyl esters. Shampoo'd with cocoamidopropyl betaine and hardcore protein treat which my hair HATED, but it's worked out for the best, I've learned my hair likes proteins in an emollient/ conditioner base much more than the hard drying type treatment.
CurlyGrey3 likes this.
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect
Are you recommending the Caitllin's or the SS Repairing? The SS Repairing ingredients are:

Distilled Water, Hydrolyzed Keratin, Oryza Sativa (Rice) Bran Oil, Stearyl Alcohol, Hydrolyzed Wheat Protein (and) Hydrolyzed Wheat Starch, Cocodimonium Hydroxypropyl Hydrolyzed Rice Protein, Hydrolyzed Oats, Glyceryl Stearate (and) Cetearyl Alcohol (and) Sodium Stearoyl Lactylate, Glycol Stearate, Cetyl Alcohol, Behentrimonium Chloride, Hydrolyzed Jojoba Protein, Panthenol, Keratin Amino Acids, Sodium PCA, Caprylic/Capric Triglycerides (and) Achillea Millefolium (Yarrow) leaf Extract (and) Salvia Officinalis (Sage) Leaf Extract (and) Equisetum Arvense (Horsetail) Extract (and) Urtica Dioica (Nettle) Leaf Extract, Lavandula Angustifolia (Lavender) Flower Extract, Arctium Lappa (Burdock) Root Extract, Helianthus Annuus (Sunflower) Extract, Olea europaea (Olive) Leaf Extract, Phenoxyethanol (and) Benzoic Acid (and) Dehydroacetic Acid, Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride, Fragrance, Citric Acid.
Originally Posted by CurlyGrey3
I don't know who this question is being addressed to but I'll put in my 2 cents!

The Repairing Treatment is more like a PT... has protein higher up on the list. The Caitlin's Conditioner has protein, but a little further down on the list. You can use it as an RO, or even LI.... I believe Chupie just did her vlog on conditioner-only styling with Caitlin's Condish.

Of course you can use a PT as an RO. I've seen some coarser-haired curlies use ROs with protein in them as their PT (so a condish with less protein than either SS Repairing treatment or CJ Repair Me). They could use Caitlin's condish for instance as a PT. For my hair I need something more protein-rich for a PT.

It's not like there's a set this is DEFINITELY a PT or DEFINITELY an RO. You can use them interchangeably to a certain extent depending on what your hair needs. You have to scrutinize the ingredients for the protein and what form (hydrolized or non, amino acids) and in what concentration it is found in the conditioner. I'm sure other ingredients in the formulation will also contribute to how well the protein binds (or doesn't bind) to your hair.

Like in everything else, labels may not mean much. A lot of conditioners may say "strengthening" on them (CJ Beauticurls Strengthening a prime example) even when the protein in them isn't very much at all. For me, this conditioner would provide moisture but not much in terms of protein.

Another example. Shescentit Okra Reconstructor:

Aqua (water), aloe barbadensis (aloe vera) leaf juice, cetearyl alcohol, Okra extract, behentrimonium methosulfate, panthenol, hydrolyzed Keratin, hydrolyzed soy protein, Wheat amino acids, hemp seed oil, wheat Germ oil, Calendula, Sunflower extract, Sea Kelp extract, marshmallow, glycerin, rice protein, fragrance, Optiphen, Xanthan gum, citric acid.

^The website says to use it as a PT. I used it as a leave-in. No crunchies, no problem. As you can see it does have hydrolyzed keratin in it and I'm sure you can use it as a PT, but the keratin is the 7th ingredient so it's definitely not the strongest PT.


As a word of caution, there are very hardcore PTs out there like Aphogee 2 step, which should only be used as directed.

Deionized Water, Hydrolyzed Animal Protein, Magnesium Sulfate, Citric Acid, Ethylene Urea, Dimethylol Urea, Cocamidopropyl Betaine, Magnesium Carbonate, DMDM Hydantoin, Fragrance

^As you can see, hydrolized "animal" protein is the second ingredient.
CurlyGrey3 likes this.
2BC/f/II. fine - low/normal porosity - medium density - normal elasticity.

Currently using:
Low-poo: Jason Mango bodywash
Cowash: Cure Care diluted with water 1:1
RO: Cure Care, V05 Kiwi Lime
Styler: UFD CM (old formula), FSG + CNPF
PT: IAgirl's gelatine

light moisture, hydrolized protein, jelly stylers
guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride, sulfates, jojoba oil
Neutral on cones.

iherb discount code: CFN646
Wavy daze- how much of that protein filler should I use in my DT ?
Type 2B - 3A
Med-High Porosity (partial highlights), medium & corse mixed textures

CG Day 1: May 16, 2013

Poo: CJ Daily Fix Cleansing Condish (as needed)
CO: Tresemme Naturals Vibrantly Smooth Condish
RO&LI: CJ Beauticurls Argan & Olive Oil Daily Hair Condish
Styling: CJ Pattern Pusha or FSG, TRESemme Flawless Curls - Bouncy Curls Defining Gel, Giovanni LANaturals HardHold Gel (canopy only)
DT: CJ Curl Rehab, Coconut oil, SS Repairing PT

Techniques: Scrunch-n-pump, tshirt wrap
Wavy daze- how much of that protein filler should I use in my DT ?
Originally Posted by alslgirl2002
In your DT? You mean the coconut oil?

Sorry about my confusion... I guess on nc.com DT usually refers to moisture/conditioning and/or oil treatment while PT refers to protein treatment... but I know on Long Hair Community they use slightly different terminology.

PTs can indeed have some oils/conditioners but their main function is to add protein to your hair where it is lacking, hence PT. I suppose DTs in nc terminology can have some protein as well, never really thought about it. I've only done pure EVCO DTs.
2BC/f/II. fine - low/normal porosity - medium density - normal elasticity.

Currently using:
Low-poo: Jason Mango bodywash
Cowash: Cure Care diluted with water 1:1
RO: Cure Care, V05 Kiwi Lime
Styler: UFD CM (old formula), FSG + CNPF
PT: IAgirl's gelatine

light moisture, hydrolized protein, jelly stylers
guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride, sulfates, jojoba oil
Neutral on cones.

iherb discount code: CFN646
Wavy daze- how much of that protein filler should I use in my DT ?
Originally Posted by alslgirl2002
In your DT? You mean the coconut oil?

Sorry about my confusion... I guess on nc.com DT usually refers to moisture/conditioning and/or oil treatment while PT refers to protein treatment... but I know on Long Hair Community they use slightly different terminology.

PTs can indeed have some oils/conditioners but their main function is to add protein to your hair where it is lacking, hence PT. I suppose DTs in nc terminology can have some protein as well, never really thought about it. I've only done pure EVCO DTs.
Originally Posted by wavydaze
I actually mix my DT with equal parts coconut oil and thought I could easily add some of that protein to it
Type 2B - 3A
Med-High Porosity (partial highlights), medium & corse mixed textures

CG Day 1: May 16, 2013

Poo: CJ Daily Fix Cleansing Condish (as needed)
CO: Tresemme Naturals Vibrantly Smooth Condish
RO&LI: CJ Beauticurls Argan & Olive Oil Daily Hair Condish
Styling: CJ Pattern Pusha or FSG, TRESemme Flawless Curls - Bouncy Curls Defining Gel, Giovanni LANaturals HardHold Gel (canopy only)
DT: CJ Curl Rehab, Coconut oil, SS Repairing PT

Techniques: Scrunch-n-pump, tshirt wrap
I actually mix my DT with equal parts coconut oil and thought I could easily add some of that protein to it
Originally Posted by alslgirl2002
You can add some protein to the DT. I would maybe recommend keeping your PTs and DTs separate, at least for now until you're learning what benefits your hair and what your hair can tolerate.

Otherwise if you put protein in your DTs and lots of oils/conditioner in your PTs then they're not "true" DTs or PTs and you won't know what is really doing what, if that makes sense. It's helpful to have a different focus/concept for DT and PT, at least at first.
Geek_Chic likes this.
2BC/f/II. fine - low/normal porosity - medium density - normal elasticity.

Currently using:
Low-poo: Jason Mango bodywash
Cowash: Cure Care diluted with water 1:1
RO: Cure Care, V05 Kiwi Lime
Styler: UFD CM (old formula), FSG + CNPF
PT: IAgirl's gelatine

light moisture, hydrolized protein, jelly stylers
guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride, sulfates, jojoba oil
Neutral on cones.

iherb discount code: CFN646
I actually mix my DT with equal parts coconut oil and thought I could easily add some of that protein to it
Originally Posted by alslgirl2002
You can add some protein to the DT. I would maybe recommend keeping your PTs and DTs separate, at least for now uI figurentil you're learning what benefits your hair and what your hair can tolerate.

Otherwise if you put protein in your DTs and lots of oils/conditioner in your PTs then they're not "true" DTs or PTs and you won't know what is really doing what, if that makes sense. It's helpful to have a different focus/concept for DT and PT, at least at first.
Originally Posted by wavydaze
I figure that once I get the SS PT that I will do that once weekly and a separate DT once weekly. Really probably every 5ish days or whatever works with my hair/work/workout schedule. This is just a quick fix until I get my new products in the mail. I got the trial size bottle which is about 1oz and I used maybe a quarter of it I'm my DT. I'll update with results tomorrow!
Type 2B - 3A
Med-High Porosity (partial highlights), medium & corse mixed textures

CG Day 1: May 16, 2013

Poo: CJ Daily Fix Cleansing Condish (as needed)
CO: Tresemme Naturals Vibrantly Smooth Condish
RO&LI: CJ Beauticurls Argan & Olive Oil Daily Hair Condish
Styling: CJ Pattern Pusha or FSG, TRESemme Flawless Curls - Bouncy Curls Defining Gel, Giovanni LANaturals HardHold Gel (canopy only)
DT: CJ Curl Rehab, Coconut oil, SS Repairing PT

Techniques: Scrunch-n-pump, tshirt wrap
I actually mix my DT with equal parts coconut oil and thought I could easily add some of that protein to it
Originally Posted by alslgirl2002
You can add some protein to the DT. I would maybe recommend keeping your PTs and DTs separate, at least for now uI figurentil you're learning what benefits your hair and what your hair can tolerate.

Otherwise if you put protein in your DTs and lots of oils/conditioner in your PTs then they're not "true" DTs or PTs and you won't know what is really doing what, if that makes sense. It's helpful to have a different focus/concept for DT and PT, at least at first.
Originally Posted by wavydaze
I figure that once I get the SS PT that I will do that once weekly and a separate DT once weekly. Really probably every 5ish days or whatever works with my hair/work/workout schedule. This is just a quick fix until I get my new products in the mail. I got the trial size bottle which is about 1oz and I used maybe a quarter of it I'm my DT. I'll update with results tomorrow!
Originally Posted by alslgirl2002
I see! Yes the CNPF is very useful... you can add it to your RO or leave-in as well! To your DT... erm I don't know try a few drops at first then adjust later as needed.

A quick fix until your SS PT arrives is IAgirl's gelatin PT! It's very cheap and so easy to make! I like it almost just as much as the SS PT (it was a little softer but it's true I did the "quick" version.... so actually I might like it exactly as much as I liked the SS PT) but I do need a PT to travel with as well hence I have my SS PT. Hope this is helpful!
2BC/f/II. fine - low/normal porosity - medium density - normal elasticity.

Currently using:
Low-poo: Jason Mango bodywash
Cowash: Cure Care diluted with water 1:1
RO: Cure Care, V05 Kiwi Lime
Styler: UFD CM (old formula), FSG + CNPF
PT: IAgirl's gelatine

light moisture, hydrolized protein, jelly stylers
guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride, sulfates, jojoba oil
Neutral on cones.

iherb discount code: CFN646
Alright, I probably should not have tried two new things last night. I tried the colorful neutral protein filler in my coconut oil+DT following a low poo. My hair felt great this morning before and after wash, not stiff or anything and while washing it just really felt nice. I styled as usual, but I also bought a hot bonnet this week and was dying to try that out to improve my hair drying time so I put it on for about 10-15 minutes while I did my makeup and brushed my teeth. So the end result is that my hair is still frizzy and it just feels dry which is wierd given that I soaked it overnight in oil and condish which usually makes it look lovely. So now I don't know whether it was the bonnet or my PT/DT but I do know that I am not having nice hair!
Type 2B - 3A
Med-High Porosity (partial highlights), medium & corse mixed textures

CG Day 1: May 16, 2013

Poo: CJ Daily Fix Cleansing Condish (as needed)
CO: Tresemme Naturals Vibrantly Smooth Condish
RO&LI: CJ Beauticurls Argan & Olive Oil Daily Hair Condish
Styling: CJ Pattern Pusha or FSG, TRESemme Flawless Curls - Bouncy Curls Defining Gel, Giovanni LANaturals HardHold Gel (canopy only)
DT: CJ Curl Rehab, Coconut oil, SS Repairing PT

Techniques: Scrunch-n-pump, tshirt wrap

You can add some protein to the DT. I would maybe recommend keeping your PTs and DTs separate, at least for now uI figurentil you're learning what benefits your hair and what your hair can tolerate.

Otherwise if you put protein in your DTs and lots of oils/conditioner in your PTs then they're not "true" DTs or PTs and you won't know what is really doing what, if that makes sense. It's helpful to have a different focus/concept for DT and PT, at least at first.
Originally Posted by wavydaze
I figure that once I get the SS PT that I will do that once weekly and a separate DT once weekly. Really probably every 5ish days or whatever works with my hair/work/workout schedule. This is just a quick fix until I get my new products in the mail. I got the trial size bottle which is about 1oz and I used maybe a quarter of it I'm my DT. I'll update with results tomorrow!
Originally Posted by alslgirl2002
I see! Yes the CNPF is very useful... you can add it to your RO or leave-in as well! To your DT... erm I don't know try a few drops at first then adjust later as needed.

A quick fix until your SS PT arrives is IAgirl's gelatin PT! It's very cheap and so easy to make! I like it almost just as much as the SS PT (it was a little softer but it's true I did the "quick" version.... so actually I might like it exactly as much as I liked the SS PT) but I do need a PT to travel with as well hence I have my SS PT. Hope this is helpful!
Originally Posted by wavydaze
I do use IAgirls gelatin, but the vibe I was getting from the thread is that it could be washing out quickly so I was hoping the overnight soak would help reduce the washout.
Type 2B - 3A
Med-High Porosity (partial highlights), medium & corse mixed textures

CG Day 1: May 16, 2013

Poo: CJ Daily Fix Cleansing Condish (as needed)
CO: Tresemme Naturals Vibrantly Smooth Condish
RO&LI: CJ Beauticurls Argan & Olive Oil Daily Hair Condish
Styling: CJ Pattern Pusha or FSG, TRESemme Flawless Curls - Bouncy Curls Defining Gel, Giovanni LANaturals HardHold Gel (canopy only)
DT: CJ Curl Rehab, Coconut oil, SS Repairing PT

Techniques: Scrunch-n-pump, tshirt wrap
Alright, I probably should not have tried two new things last night. I tried the colorful neutral protein filler in my coconut oil+DT following a low poo. My hair felt great this morning before and after wash, not stiff or anything and while washing it just really felt nice. I styled as usual, but I also bought a hot bonnet this week and was dying to try that out to improve my hair drying time so I put it on for about 10-15 minutes while I did my makeup and brushed my teeth. So the end result is that my hair is still frizzy and it just feels dry which is wierd given that I soaked it overnight in oil and condish which usually makes it look lovely. So now I don't know whether it was the bonnet or my PT/DT but I do know that I am not having nice hair!
Originally Posted by alslgirl2002
Hmmm if it's feeling dry just add some condish. I do know that coconut oil is supposed to help with protein retention, so I don't know if maybe the amount of protein functioned like a hard PT.... it is true that despite it being a PT/DT you did leave it on overnight, so the protein even if it wasn't a lot really had time to absorb. Anyway if it's feeling dry just add some condish as an LI.

EDIT: I'm looking at your siggy. I wouldn't use the SM milk for the above purpose because it has some protein and it's full of anti-humectants which is not exactly what dry hair needs. I see you have CJ Rehab... use some of that... dilute it with water if necessary.
2BC/f/II. fine - low/normal porosity - medium density - normal elasticity.

Currently using:
Low-poo: Jason Mango bodywash
Cowash: Cure Care diluted with water 1:1
RO: Cure Care, V05 Kiwi Lime
Styler: UFD CM (old formula), FSG + CNPF
PT: IAgirl's gelatine

light moisture, hydrolized protein, jelly stylers
guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride, sulfates, jojoba oil
Neutral on cones.

iherb discount code: CFN646
I do use IAgirls gelatin, but the vibe I was getting from the thread is that it could be washing out quickly so I was hoping the overnight soak would help reduce the washout.
Originally Posted by alslgirl2002
Ahhh right sorry!
2BC/f/II. fine - low/normal porosity - medium density - normal elasticity.

Currently using:
Low-poo: Jason Mango bodywash
Cowash: Cure Care diluted with water 1:1
RO: Cure Care, V05 Kiwi Lime
Styler: UFD CM (old formula), FSG + CNPF
PT: IAgirl's gelatine

light moisture, hydrolized protein, jelly stylers
guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride, sulfates, jojoba oil
Neutral on cones.

iherb discount code: CFN646
I have to add that what your doing now is learning the proper moisture-protein balance for your hair. This requires some trial and error and is completely individualized. It is also a very basic aspect of good haircare so once you figure it out you'll see more consistent good hair days and it will become easier as well. I went back and forth between being overconditioned and overproteined a few times before I learned exactly what balance my hair needs. Don't be discouraged! It is good to add things in increments as a general rule of thumb... so as you up the protein, do it incrementally until you get good results.
Geek_Chic likes this.
2BC/f/II. fine - low/normal porosity - medium density - normal elasticity.

Currently using:
Low-poo: Jason Mango bodywash
Cowash: Cure Care diluted with water 1:1
RO: Cure Care, V05 Kiwi Lime
Styler: UFD CM (old formula), FSG + CNPF
PT: IAgirl's gelatine

light moisture, hydrolized protein, jelly stylers
guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride, sulfates, jojoba oil
Neutral on cones.

iherb discount code: CFN646
Alright, I probably should not have tried two new things last night. I tried the colorful neutral protein filler in my coconut oil+DT following a low poo. My hair felt great this morning before and after wash, not stiff or anything and while washing it just really felt nice. I styled as usual, but I also bought a hot bonnet this week and was dying to try that out to improve my hair drying time so I put it on for about 10-15 minutes while I did my makeup and brushed my teeth. So the end result is that my hair is still frizzy and it just feels dry which is wierd given that I soaked it overnight in oil and condish which usually makes it look lovely. So now I don't know whether it was the bonnet or my PT/DT but I do know that I am not having nice hair!
Originally Posted by alslgirl2002
Hmmm if it's feeling dry just add some condish. I do know that coconut oil is supposed to help with protein retention, so I don't know if maybe the amount of protein functioned like a hard PT.... it is true that despite it being a PT/DT you did leave it on overnight, so the protein even if it wasn't a lot really had time to absorb. Anyway if it's feeling dry just add some condish as an LI.

EDIT: I'm looking at your siggy. I wouldn't use the SM milk for the above purpose because it has some protein and it's full of anti-humectants which is not exactly what dry hair needs. I see you have CJ Rehab... use some of that... dilute it with water if necessary.
Originally Posted by wavydaze
For RO I use the SM but I am looking for a new RO without shea. My DT is always the curl rehab - it is so moisturising. Interestingly, after I got home, I partially rewetted and mixed some LA naturals with water and smoothed over the top and scrunched into the ends and then let it air dry and had fairly nice hair this evening although it was a little fluffy and undefined, but not as frizzy as earlier.
Type 2B - 3A
Med-High Porosity (partial highlights), medium & corse mixed textures

CG Day 1: May 16, 2013

Poo: CJ Daily Fix Cleansing Condish (as needed)
CO: Tresemme Naturals Vibrantly Smooth Condish
RO&LI: CJ Beauticurls Argan & Olive Oil Daily Hair Condish
Styling: CJ Pattern Pusha or FSG, TRESemme Flawless Curls - Bouncy Curls Defining Gel, Giovanni LANaturals HardHold Gel (canopy only)
DT: CJ Curl Rehab, Coconut oil, SS Repairing PT

Techniques: Scrunch-n-pump, tshirt wrap
Ok so I just read the post on the other thread about what has Cg changed about your hair. Like I said - my hair is awful with CG. MORE frizzy - way more frizzy than I ever had pre-CG. I do notice my curl pattern improving but not significantly than when I used cones. Today after my PT/DT last.night my curls were fluffy, and just got more undefined as the day went on so my frizz, which is usually quite significant, was fairly pronounced. What was weird was that all of my hair- upper canopy, very porous, and lower canopy - less porous, all was very fluffy and undefined and with high dews the frizz just felt a little crazy.
Type 2B - 3A
Med-High Porosity (partial highlights), medium & corse mixed textures

CG Day 1: May 16, 2013

Poo: CJ Daily Fix Cleansing Condish (as needed)
CO: Tresemme Naturals Vibrantly Smooth Condish
RO&LI: CJ Beauticurls Argan & Olive Oil Daily Hair Condish
Styling: CJ Pattern Pusha or FSG, TRESemme Flawless Curls - Bouncy Curls Defining Gel, Giovanni LANaturals HardHold Gel (canopy only)
DT: CJ Curl Rehab, Coconut oil, SS Repairing PT

Techniques: Scrunch-n-pump, tshirt wrap
I'm really sorry you're having such a hard time with CG. Some people have more luck and start with out with a routine that works or semi-works so their hair improves instantly... others search for much longer until they find a routine that works for them.


Whenever you're having a ton of frizz it can definitely mean your moisture-protein balance is off. Overconditioned hair and overproteined hair can both look frizzy, but feel very different. OC feels really soft, mushy, limp, OP feels dry, possibly crunchy, or like a plastic doll's hair.

Another thing I noticed, you're using Deva low-poo. Kathymack and others have terrible buildup with polyquats. That could definitely be causing the crazy amount of frizz. Kathy, where are you? I think she particularly dislikes Deva low and no poos. She also said she had to use a harsh surfactant (sulfate) to get rid of it. You may need to clarify and use another low-poo. You'll have a clean slate, so that's good!

Deva Low-poo

Water (Aqua, Eau), Cocamidopropyl Betaine, Glycerin, Coco-Betaine, PEG-75 Lanolin, PEG-40 Hydrogenated Castor Oil, Polyquaternium-7, PEG-7 Glyceryl Cocoate, Hydroxyethylcellulose, Melissa Officinalis Extract, Humulus Lupulus (Hops) Extract, Cymbopogon Schoenanthus Extract, Chamomilla Recutita (Matricaria) Extract, Rosmarinus Officinalis (Rosemary) Extract, Achillea Millefolium Extract, Polyquaternium-10, Propylene Glycol, Aminomethyl Propanol, Diazolidinyl Urea, Iodopropynyl Butylcarbamate, Fragrance (Parfum)

If I have a bad few days, it's usually some type of ingredient build up. The prior haircut, my CJ Daily Fix rolled out of the bag into the car. It was too late before I noticed. Let them use Deva NoPoo on my hair--BIG MISTAKE. It has a polyquat! Made my hair just awful until I used a sulfate shampoo to wash it out. Then, my hair was back to normal.

My first suggestion would be to read your ingredients, clarify and stay away from chemicals, like polyquats.
Originally Posted by kathymack
A Bad Hair Month?
2BC/f/II. fine - low/normal porosity - medium density - normal elasticity.

Currently using:
Low-poo: Jason Mango bodywash
Cowash: Cure Care diluted with water 1:1
RO: Cure Care, V05 Kiwi Lime
Styler: UFD CM (old formula), FSG + CNPF
PT: IAgirl's gelatine

light moisture, hydrolized protein, jelly stylers
guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride, sulfates, jojoba oil
Neutral on cones.

iherb discount code: CFN646
After your sulfate wash, if you need suggestions for low-poos, Yes To Cucumbers is a well-liked, drugstore low-poo:

Water (Aqua), Disodium Cocoamphodiacetate, Cocamidopropyl Betaine, Cucumis Sativus (Cucumber) Fruit Extract*, Aloe Barbadensis Leaf Juice, Vitis Vinifera (Grape) Seed Extract, Rosa Canina Fruit Extract, Salix Alba (Willow) Bark Extract, Salvia Officinalis (Sage) Leaf Extract, Simmondsia Chinensis (Jojoba) Seed Oil, Vitis Vinifera (Grape) Seed Oil, Persea Gratissima (Avocado) Oil, Carthamus Tinctorius (Safflower) Seed Oil, Glycine Soja (Soybean) Oil, Helianthus Annuus (Sunflower) Seed Oil, Chamomilla Recutita (Matricaria) Flower Extract, Rosmarinus Officinalis (Rosemary) Leaf Extract, Sea Water, Chlorella Vulgaris Extract, Spirulina Maxima Extract, Hydrolyzed Algin, Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride, Xanthan Gum, Glycerin, Fragrance (Parfum), Sodium Benzoate, Citric Acid, Potassium Sorbate, Phenoxyethanol.
2BC/f/II. fine - low/normal porosity - medium density - normal elasticity.

Currently using:
Low-poo: Jason Mango bodywash
Cowash: Cure Care diluted with water 1:1
RO: Cure Care, V05 Kiwi Lime
Styler: UFD CM (old formula), FSG + CNPF
PT: IAgirl's gelatine

light moisture, hydrolized protein, jelly stylers
guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride, sulfates, jojoba oil
Neutral on cones.

iherb discount code: CFN646

Last edited by wavydaze; 07-13-2013 at 08:44 AM.
Make sure your other products don't have polyquats as well!
2BC/f/II. fine - low/normal porosity - medium density - normal elasticity.

Currently using:
Low-poo: Jason Mango bodywash
Cowash: Cure Care diluted with water 1:1
RO: Cure Care, V05 Kiwi Lime
Styler: UFD CM (old formula), FSG + CNPF
PT: IAgirl's gelatine

light moisture, hydrolized protein, jelly stylers
guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride, sulfates, jojoba oil
Neutral on cones.

iherb discount code: CFN646
Wavydaze - which Yes to Cucumbers product is that? They have several cleansers. Thanks!
Salt & pepper wavy mix 2B/2C
Low to normal porosity, coarse, kinky, normal elasticity
Current favorites:
Low poo: Yes To Cukes Color Protection (the no sulfate one)
Conditioners: Renpure MPHIP, CJ Smoothing Lotion, AB LI, CJ Curl Rehab, CJ Argan/Olive, Darcy's Pumpkin
Style: FSG, BRHG
Pre-poo/DT: Conditioner with honey & coconut oil

iHerb discount code: PNQ285

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