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-   -   What causes frizz when wet? (http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/general-discussion-about-curly-hair/160432-what-causes-frizz-when-wet.html)

crofterica 07-12-2013 05:39 PM

What causes frizz when wet?
 
I'm high porosity, med/high density, medium width, 2C , and have noticed that I am getting frizz after I apply product (LA Looks) before I'm dry. I'm not SUPER frizzy once I'm dry, but more than when I started CG earlier this week. Our dew points have been in the low 60s lately..

Any advice?

Samanthascurlz 07-12-2013 05:46 PM

It could possibly be build-up. What shampoo and conditioner do you use? Do you touch your hair a lot during drying process?

crofterica 07-12-2013 05:50 PM

I'm using Suave Tropical Coconut and Tresseme Naturals for my rinse out--I don't rinse it all the way...then scrunch out water, apply gel, and plop. Minimal touching :)

Samanthascurlz 07-12-2013 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crofterica (Post 2190227)
I'm using Suave Tropical Coconut and Tresseme Naturals for my rinse out--I don't rinse it all the way...then scrunch out water, apply gel, and plop. Minimal touching :)

So do you co-wash with Suave or TN? I am just curious how you actually wash it. Also, I am high porosity, and I had a very similar problem with the frizz when wet. I stopped doing a RO because I realized I was adding too much moisture. I think, and this is not fully backed up with any scientific evidence, but the fact that high porosity easily takes in moisture, water, etc., that a rinse out isn't necessary. I think Co-washing, detangling, and rinsing out the conditioner (from detangling) is good enough for moisture. I am wondering if the Suave is the issue. The act of plopping, depending on the state of your hair (dry, soaking wet, etc.), could also be contributing to the frizz.
Here is the Suave ingredients:

Water (Aqua), Cetyl Alcohol, Cetrimonium Chloride, Potassium Chloride, Fragrance (Parfum), Distearyldimonium Chloride, Disodium EDTA, Glycerin, 2-Bromo-2-Nitropropane-1,3-Diol, Methylchloroisothiazolinone, Methylisothiazolinone, Propylene Gylcol, Silk Amino Acids, Honey (Mel), Nettle (Urtica Dioica) Extract, Rosemary (rosemarinus Officinalis) Extract, Coconut (Cocoa Nucifera) Extract

I also attached an article that some of the main ingredients in here are explained:
THE NATURAL HAVEN: Does conditioner or oil really need to penetrate hair?

Lastly, which LA looks do you use?

wavydaze 07-12-2013 06:38 PM

Scan your products for polyquats. I've read several complaints of polyquats causing frizz-when-wet.

Samanthascurlz 07-12-2013 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wavydaze (Post 2190242)
Scan your products for polyquats. I've read several complaints of polyquats causing frizz-when-wet.

I am wondering if the LA looks might have a polyquat. +1

CurlyInTheFog 07-12-2013 07:07 PM

Dews getting to about 62 will kick up the frizz for me, but I can get frizz pretty easily anyway due to wind here. Two things help me: one, using a lot of gel and a hard hold one; two, pixiecurl diffusing. I use KCCC + BRHG and quite a bit of it--enough to get a lot of crunch by the time it dries. Once I SOTC, I've never had an issue with the curls being too stiff or unnatural looking. I actually get compliments when it's still crunchy, which I think is a little odd because IMO it looks like poop, but OK. I also pixiecurl at least until I've got a good cast on, so 50-75% dry. If I do these two things, I'm pretty much frizz-free on day one and can keep frizz to a minimum on day two.

crofterica 07-12-2013 07:19 PM

I use Suave as the co-wash, lots of it and scrub my scalp like crazy with my fingertips, then wash the rest of my hair like I would with shampoo. Then I use the TN as a rinse out probably half of it upside down with cold water. I apply LAlooks Sport gel to dripping wet hair and immediately plop for 15 mins or so...

crofterica 07-12-2013 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wavydaze (Post 2190242)
Scan your products for polyquats. I've read several complaints of polyquats causing frizz-when-wet.

I'm pretty new to this--what are poly quats?

Firefox7275 07-12-2013 08:28 PM

Suave followed by Tresemme might not be rich enough for your high porosity hair, I am high porosity and need plenty of leave in conditioner, it could be more important than gel for frizz control and clumping.

I never used to understand frizz when wet but occasionally I get it when I've used my protein rich/ oil free conditioner several washes in a row. I don't think the protein itself is the cause as such since it's giving me good hair much of the time, my hair seems to need a little oil in my routine.

Another possibility is that fifteen minutes is too long a plop, porous hair can dry out fast especially if you are not using a rich leave in conditioner but only water based products. I'm having best results with flour sack towels, takes out less water so doesn't overdry the hair. I also lightly scrunch out water with the towel more often than I plop so I can hit the wetter areas and leave the ones that tend to frizz.

CurlyInTheFog 07-13-2013 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firefox7275 (Post 2190285)
Suave followed by Tresemme might not be rich enough for your high porosity hair, I am high porosity and need plenty of leave in conditioner, it could be more important than gel for frizz control and clumping.

I never used to understand frizz when wet but occasionally I get it when I've used my protein rich/ oil free conditioner several washes in a row. I don't think the protein itself is the cause as such since it's giving me good hair much of the time, my hair seems to need a little oil in my routine.

Another possibility is that fifteen minutes is too long a plop, porous hair can dry out fast especially if you are not using a rich leave in conditioner but only water based products. I'm having best results with flour sack towels, takes out less water so doesn't overdry the hair. I also lightly scrunch out water with the towel more often than I plop so I can hit the wetter areas and leave the ones that tend to frizz.

Ditto on the shorter plop and flour sack towels. I plop for ten minutes or less--just long enough to get dressed and clean up the bath area. I used to plop lfor 20-30 minutes, but got a lot more frizz. The flour sack towels are great. I've had greatly reduced frizz since I started using them.

crofterica 07-13-2013 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firefox7275 (Post 2190285)
Suave followed by Tresemme might not be rich enough for your high porosity hair, I am high porosity and need plenty of leave in conditioner, it could be more important than gel for frizz control and clumping.

I never used to understand frizz when wet but occasionally I get it when I've used my protein rich/ oil free conditioner several washes in a row. I don't think the protein itself is the cause as such since it's giving me good hair much of the time, my hair seems to need a little oil in my routine.

Another possibility is that fifteen minutes is too long a plop, porous hair can dry out fast especially if you are not using a rich leave in conditioner but only water based products. I'm having best results with flour sack towels, takes out less water so doesn't overdry the hair. I also lightly scrunch out water with the towel more often than I plop so I can hit the wetter areas and leave the ones that tend to frizz.

Okay--I've also noticed my curls seem less curly all of a sudden. Do you think I'm leaving too much of the TN in my hair?

crofterica 07-13-2013 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CurlyInTheFog (Post 2190342)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Firefox7275 (Post 2190285)
Suave followed by Tresemme might not be rich enough for your high porosity hair, I am high porosity and need plenty of leave in conditioner, it could be more important than gel for frizz control and clumping.

I never used to understand frizz when wet but occasionally I get it when I've used my protein rich/ oil free conditioner several washes in a row. I don't think the protein itself is the cause as such since it's giving me good hair much of the time, my hair seems to need a little oil in my routine.

Another possibility is that fifteen minutes is too long a plop, porous hair can dry out fast especially if you are not using a rich leave in conditioner but only water based products. I'm having best results with flour sack towels, takes out less water so doesn't overdry the hair. I also lightly scrunch out water with the towel more often than I plop so I can hit the wetter areas and leave the ones that tend to frizz.

Ditto on the shorter plop and flour sack towels. I plop for ten minutes or less--just long enough to get dressed and clean up the bath area. I used to plop lfor 20-30 minutes, but got a lot more frizz. The flour sack towels are great. I've had greatly reduced frizz since I started using them.

Alright, I can definitely shorten the plop time. Do you use the flour sack towel to plop, or do you use it to scrunch out the water? Or both? :)

crofterica 07-13-2013 09:13 AM

Oh, and I'm washing everyday, so could that be too much? I've always washed everyday before CG, and prefer it. My hair is shorter, so not sure I can pineapple..

Firefox7275 07-13-2013 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crofterica (Post 2190398)
Okay--I've also noticed my curls seem less curly all of a sudden. Do you think I'm leaving too much of the TN in my hair?

Are you cleansing properly, so your hair is literally squeaky clean (it's a softer squeak than shampoo)? Could otherwise be protein-moisture balance, or not the right ingredients for your dew points/ humidity. Suave and Tresemme Naturals both contain humectants (eg. glycerin, propylene glycol, aloe vera, honey).

Humectants can cause problems if overused and the effect tends to be more pronounced in those with higher porosity or at very high or very low dews. Porous hair often needs less moisture not more, but more elasticity, more penetrating oils to reduce porosity, maybe film formers to seal the cuticle.

Tiffany from Live Curly Live Free says
"In very low moisture areas, dry climates, or during the wintertime, humectants can actually dry the hair out further by absorbing water from the hair itself when there is no moisture in the surrounding atmosphere. Because the sole purpose of a humectant is to find and absorb moisture, it will find it and take it wherever it can get it--and that includes yanking out the moisture from inside your curly locks, leaving you with a dry, frizzy mess.

In very high moisture areas, wet climates, or during the summertime, however, humectants will force overly porous hair to continuously “drink” water from the humid, moisture-laden atmosphere until the hair shaft is swollen, bloated and tangled. Products with heavy humectants are often the cause of the humidity-induced frizz common to many girls with curls in the hot, humid summertime.

Both overly dry and overly swollen hair can become frizzy and/or lose their wave pattern due to improper use of humectants. Depending on your hair type---and, most especially if you are overly porous---humectants should not be used in very dry or very wet climates, or when dew points indicate there is too little or too much moisture in the atmosphere.
"
http://www.curlynikki.com/2009/06/cu...tants-and.html

JessMess 07-13-2013 03:08 PM

I was using the TN as a leave-in initially and my hair didn't like it--I just suggested to someone else, too: try just skipping the leave-in for one wash and see what happens. I think for those of us with thick, coarse hair, a leave-in has the potential to just thicken it up and make it WILD. I'm doing better for now going right from rinse out to gel (no plopping).

crofterica 07-13-2013 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JessMess (Post 2190482)
I was using the TN as a leave-in initially and my hair didn't like it--I just suggested to someone else, too: try just skipping the leave-in for one wash and see what happens. I think for those of us with thick, coarse hair, a leave-in has the potential to just thicken it up and make it WILD. I'm doing better for now going right from rinse out to gel (no plopping).

I'm starting to think it might be the TN---I think it's weighing my hair down. I really like the definition I've been getting, so I wonder if there's a lighter leave in?

Can anyone recommend a good drugstore leave in that is lighter than TN??

Neleke 07-13-2013 03:51 PM

My hair is frizzy right after I come out of the shower.
It wasn't frizzy at the beginning of CG.

It isn't really frizzy anymore after putting in stylers and after plopping, so that's ok.

It does get frizzy more quickly when dry than in the beginning.

Would this be the same frizzyness as crofterica is talking about?

CurlyGrey3 07-13-2013 04:01 PM

I've been battling explosive frizz when wet. It's almost like my hair is repelling itself - poor clumping and the ends of curls splay out. My hair was also very frizzy and hard/rough/dry feeling once it dried. Our dews have been around 70 for weeks.

I did a few things - clarified with a sulfate shampoo, did a moisture/oil DT, did a couple of gelatin PTs, and put a small amount of coconut oil in and let it soak in overnight. It felt like I couldn't get it to hold moisture no matter how much I fed it, and it was acting very porous.

My best luck was with the coconut oil overnight followed by the PT in the morning. My frizz is WAY down today. Well, I have normal "I got caught in the rain and humidity" frizz, but my hair is curling better and feels much better. My hair is almost too soft now (waves/curls still weak). I'm not sure what that's about, but my next attempt is to use a protein heavy conditioner on a regular basis and a moisture DT after another PT.

Firefox7275 07-13-2013 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crofterica (Post 2190489)
I'm starting to think it might be the TN---I think it's weighing my hair down. I really like the definition I've been getting, so I wonder if there's a lighter leave in?

Can anyone recommend a good drugstore leave in that is lighter than TN??

Tresemme Naturals can cause problems for some people, but simply going lighter is not considering your hair properties, dew points nor addressing frizz. Just use your co-wash, see how that works out. Otherwise choose something rich with with protein, don't confuse rich with heavy they are not one and the same.


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