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Old 07-13-2013, 07:31 AM   #1
 
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Smile Need help from clever curly people!

Argh! No matter what I do my hair always feels like straw! I get a few defined curls but the rest is just a mass of frizz !

Can anybody see anything in my regime that might be causing this?

At the moment I co-wash with Tresemme Naturals and use a Body Shop conditioner as a leave-in (Ingredients: Aqua (Solvent/Diluent), Musa Paradisica Fruit (Emollient/Lubricant), Cetearyl Alcohol (Emulsifier), Cetrimonium Chloride (Hair Conditioner), Phenoxyethanol (Preservative), Hydroxyethylcellulose (Stabiliser/Thickener), Lecithin (Stabiliser/Emulsifier), Propylene Glycol (Humectant), Panthenol (Skin/Hair Conditioning Agent), Parfum (Fragrance), Benzyl Alcohol (Preservative), Sodium Hydroxide (pH Adjuster), Ascorbic Acid (Antioxidant), CI 15985 (Colour), CI 19140 (Colour).).

Then I use the olive oil eco styler over the top and let it air dry after having plopped for 30 mins. I use the Shea Moisture DT once a week and do an ACV rinse about every 4 weeks.

This is what I do at the moment, I have tried different leave-ins, different gels but now I'm totally stuck! There seems to be no common ingredient that my hair is rubbish with? Unless it's all of them .

I tried a sulfate wash recently to see if that made a difference but nope! And I bought some Shea Moisture souffle which helped a bit but nothing major.

If anybody knows (or has wild guesses!) where I'm going wrong, I'd be soooo grateful. I'm a 3b if that makes any difference? Oh, and I'm in the UK.
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Old 07-13-2013, 07:39 AM   #2
 
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Welcome! Do you have harder water or swim/ have you tried a chelating wash? What are your hair properties and dew points? Are you using a rinse out conditioner?

I wouldn't personally use that banana conditioner as a leave in, I can't see how putting fruit puree in your hair is going to benefit it by providing any sort of slip or 'nourishment'. Normally I'd say use far more leave in, but I can't imagine how that would work out.

Shea butter doesn't really penetrate and can build up. Are you doing any protein treatments?

See the stickies on this and the newbies board and/ or the Live Curly Live Free website if you don't understand properties and dew points.
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2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG, growing out mechanical and chemical damage = breakage and very high porosity. Past armpit length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut
Treatments: Komaza Matani, coconut oil, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss ultimate volume, Inecto argan
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Boots Essentials gel
Experimenting with: going back to basics
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Old 07-13-2013, 07:47 AM   #3
 
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Do an apple cider vinegar rinse and then deep condition for an hour!

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What's working this week:
Shower: Garnier 3x Nutrition shampoo 1x per week, cowash with Tres Semme Naturals, condition with
GF Sleek and Shine deep conditioner
Styling: Tres Semme Naturals as leave in, L'Oreal Melting gel and HE SMU raked in, LOOB and AG Re:Coil scrunched in, Jojoba Oil scrunched in when totally dry
3B
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Old 07-13-2013, 07:50 AM   #4
 
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Thanks! Hi!

Soft water and don't swim. Will google chelating wash lol. I use Tresemme as a rinse out.

Before this banana one, I used Tresemme as a leave-in but it pretty much had the same results?

Will check out protein treatments, thanks.
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Old 07-13-2013, 07:51 AM   #5
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GiveMeABMW View Post
Do an apple cider vinegar rinse and then deep condition for an hour!

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Will deffo be doing that later
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Old 07-13-2013, 10:25 AM   #6
 
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This is me, too. I also use TN, but recently started using Yes to Carrots as my RO and then some more as a leave in, too. It helped for about a week, but now is back to straw. I also chelated, was better for about 2 days, now back to straw. Same with ACV. I've used every product and technique i can find with no real improvement. I sometimes wonder if it's even possible for me to have soft, moisturized hair. Maybe the softness and shininess I had pre CG was just due to silicones...I may take that route again. I'm so tired of looking/feeling like a scarecrow! Sorry to be such a downer, but let me know if you find something that works!
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2C normal/high porosity?, medium/coarse texture, lower density
Cleanse: Pura D'Or every week or two, Yes to Cukes
Conditioner: VO5 Kiwi Lime (LOVE!), Tresemme Naturals, YTC
DT: GVP Conditioning Balm w/ coconut oil
LI: a touch of JCTS
Products: my HG is Tresemme Bouncy Curls Defining Gel mixed with a touch of BRHG over a little flax seed gel, SM Souflee/Milk for 2nd day hair, occasionally Bioterra Curling Creme and Gel
Modified CG since November 2012- finally found what works!
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Old 07-13-2013, 10:39 AM   #7
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WavyRoo View Post
This is me, too. I also use TN, but recently started using Yes to Carrots as my RO and then some more as a leave in, too. It helped for about a week, but now is back to straw. I also chelated, was better for about 2 days, now back to straw. Same with ACV. I've used every product and technique i can find with no real improvement. I sometimes wonder if it's even possible for me to have soft, moisturized hair. Maybe the softness and shininess I had pre CG was just due to silicones...I may take that route again. I'm so tired of looking/feeling like a scarecrow! Sorry to be such a downer, but let me know if you find something that works!
Higher porosity hair doesn't necessarily need to be more 'moisturised' it needs to be more conditioned, perhaps increase elasticity and reduce porosity. You signature looks to be wall to wall humectants (propylene glycol, glycerin, aloe vera, honey).
The Curl Whisperer on Humectants and Humidity | Curly Nikki | Natural Hair Styles and Natural Hair Care

Silicones are anti humectants/ cuticle sealants/ occlusives, if you liked the effect of those maybe that indicates you need to look for comparable CG friendly ingredients. Vinegar also help the cuticle lay flat, the opposite of overusing humectants.
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2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG, growing out mechanical and chemical damage = breakage and very high porosity. Past armpit length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut
Treatments: Komaza Matani, coconut oil, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss ultimate volume, Inecto argan
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Boots Essentials gel
Experimenting with: going back to basics
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Old 07-13-2013, 12:44 PM   #8
 
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Try skipping the leave-in. I know it's counterintuitive, but I'm saying. I'm new at this, but I have the same problem and got much better results just going right from rinse-out to gel. Here's right now (as in right this sec)--a lil' crunchiness from the gel, but I certainly would not say it feels like straw, and I'm literally ten feet away from the ocean right now. Nice and soft.
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Jessica
Type 2c: coarse, high-density, low porosity (so it would seem)
Avoiding protein and glycerin; going for soft, non-crunchy, frizz-free waves
CO & RO: Tresemme Naturals Moisture
Sealer: Olive oil
Leave-in/Styler: Kinky Curly Knot Today
DT: olive oil and honey
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Old 07-13-2013, 12:44 PM   #9
 
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Could you type out your routine? How do you apply products? How do you dry your hair? Do you do weekly deep treatments? That might help.
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Fine Texture, Normal Porosity, Normal Elasticity. Dyed to brown a few months ago.
Lowpoo:
Trader Joe's TTT Shampoo
Rinse Out:
Yes to Carrots, AOHR, Aubrey Organics Rosemary Peppermint
LI: Yes to Carrots
Stylers: Shea Moisture Curl Enhancing Smoothie, LA Looks Sports, Suave Professionals Captivating Curls Whipped Mousse
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Old 07-13-2013, 01:11 PM   #10
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by purplyblue View Post
Thanks! Hi!

Soft water and don't swim. Will google chelating wash lol. I use Tresemme as a rinse out.

Before this banana one, I used Tresemme as a leave-in but it pretty much had the same results?

Will check out protein treatments, thanks.
Tresemme Naturals is pretty similar to your Body Shop conditioner, emollients (conditioning agents) and humectants (attract water), no protein or occlusives (oils/ butters). How well that works depends on your hair properties and dew points, it may be you don't have the right balance in your routine.
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2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG, growing out mechanical and chemical damage = breakage and very high porosity. Past armpit length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut
Treatments: Komaza Matani, coconut oil, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss ultimate volume, Inecto argan
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Boots Essentials gel
Experimenting with: going back to basics
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Old 07-13-2013, 01:33 PM   #11
 
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Ecostyler turns my hair to straw on account of the wheat protein. Every styling product I've ever tried that contains it dries my hair out. Food for thought. You may be protein sensitive. I think you should do some experimenting and try to figure out your properties.
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3A - C, HP, ME, HD. (Coarse, High Porosity, Medium Elasticity, High Density.)

CG since Nov. 2012

Poos: SM Moisture Retention + Yucca Baobab, TJ's Tea Tree Tingle
Condish: TJ 'sTea Tree Tingle*, SM Moisture Retention* + Curl & Shine + Yucca Baobab, Yes to Blueberries
Stylers: KCKT*, SM Curl Enhancing Smoothie* + Curl & Style Milk*, KCCC*, FSG*, CJ Pattern Pusha, Curl Keeper
Sealers: Jojoba* or Grapeseed* oil

* = HG

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Old 07-13-2013, 06:06 PM   #12
 
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You're right, Firefox...looks like I need a humectant free conditioner. I believe suave coconut is anti humectant. I do seal daily, but it looks like most of my gels have glycerin, too. Anti humectant styling products are hard to find! But, as you know by now, I'll try ANYTHING.
__________________
2C normal/high porosity?, medium/coarse texture, lower density
Cleanse: Pura D'Or every week or two, Yes to Cukes
Conditioner: VO5 Kiwi Lime (LOVE!), Tresemme Naturals, YTC
DT: GVP Conditioning Balm w/ coconut oil
LI: a touch of JCTS
Products: my HG is Tresemme Bouncy Curls Defining Gel mixed with a touch of BRHG over a little flax seed gel, SM Souflee/Milk for 2nd day hair, occasionally Bioterra Curling Creme and Gel
Modified CG since November 2012- finally found what works!
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Old 07-13-2013, 06:18 PM   #13
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WavyRoo View Post
You're right, Firefox...looks like I need a humectant free conditioner. I believe suave coconut is anti humectant. I do seal daily, but it looks like most of my gels have glycerin, too. Anti humectant styling products are hard to find! But, as you know by now, I'll try ANYTHING.
Seal with what?

You don't necessarily need to go mad on anti humectants, you don't need to veer from one extreme to other other. First of all cut back on the humectants - your GVP has propylene glycol, you are adding honey, glycerin in your stylers and aloe vera in your daily conditioner. It's just not balanced.

Then perhaps add in some film formers - flaxseed gel, okra gel, hydrolysed protein, panthenol are all options. You can also make a basic gel more sealing by adding oil - see the DIY Ecostyler custard recipes.

Suave Naturals coconut contains glycerin and propylene glycol but down the list I think, it's not really humectant nor anti humectant, overall more emollient.
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2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG, growing out mechanical and chemical damage = breakage and very high porosity. Past armpit length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut
Treatments: Komaza Matani, coconut oil, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss ultimate volume, Inecto argan
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Boots Essentials gel
Experimenting with: going back to basics
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Old 07-13-2013, 06:32 PM   #14
 
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So today I used YTC as my RO, JC Too Shea for a tiny bit of leave in and Jessicurl's oil to seal. I then used FSG and SM Soufflé. I really tried to consider balance...what do you think threw me off?
__________________
2C normal/high porosity?, medium/coarse texture, lower density
Cleanse: Pura D'Or every week or two, Yes to Cukes
Conditioner: VO5 Kiwi Lime (LOVE!), Tresemme Naturals, YTC
DT: GVP Conditioning Balm w/ coconut oil
LI: a touch of JCTS
Products: my HG is Tresemme Bouncy Curls Defining Gel mixed with a touch of BRHG over a little flax seed gel, SM Souflee/Milk for 2nd day hair, occasionally Bioterra Curling Creme and Gel
Modified CG since November 2012- finally found what works!
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Old 07-13-2013, 07:01 PM   #15
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WavyRoo View Post
So today I used YTC as my RO, JC Too Shea for a tiny bit of leave in and Jessicurl's oil to seal. I then used FSG and SM Soufflé. I really tried to consider balance...what do you think threw me off?
You look to have two to three sealers there, do you need that many? An oil plus two products containing shea butter, also shea is not really slippy it's more sticky and can build up so watch for that.

Do you need five products after you cleanse? The basic CG method is three. IMO the simpler your routine the easier it is to find balance and work out what is effective and what is not. Conditioners should primarily contain emollients (fatty alcohols and cationic surfactants, then either an oil, protein or humectant depending on hair properties.

If your styler is water based you might need something else to seal - that could be a rich conditioner containing oil it doesn't have to be a separate product - if your styler contains oils or butters many of us won't need any other sealer. Remember that the emollients and any proteins can also act as weak humectants,so they will help retain the right amount of moisture.
__________________
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG, growing out mechanical and chemical damage = breakage and very high porosity. Past armpit length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut
Treatments: Komaza Matani, coconut oil, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss ultimate volume, Inecto argan
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Boots Essentials gel
Experimenting with: going back to basics
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Old 07-13-2013, 07:25 PM   #16
 
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Sorry to take over your thread, purplyblue! Looks like balance is key...
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2C normal/high porosity?, medium/coarse texture, lower density
Cleanse: Pura D'Or every week or two, Yes to Cukes
Conditioner: VO5 Kiwi Lime (LOVE!), Tresemme Naturals, YTC
DT: GVP Conditioning Balm w/ coconut oil
LI: a touch of JCTS
Products: my HG is Tresemme Bouncy Curls Defining Gel mixed with a touch of BRHG over a little flax seed gel, SM Souflee/Milk for 2nd day hair, occasionally Bioterra Curling Creme and Gel
Modified CG since November 2012- finally found what works!
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