I HATE my curly hair, help!

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  • 1 Post By amaree
  • 1 Post By amaree
  • 1 Post By Firefox7275

I have straightened my hair for 5 years almost everyday, never going natural. I absolutely love straight hair on me but unfortunately I'm "blessed" with curls. I've also bleached my hair to platinum blonde, but recently I changed it to more natural beach blonde. My hair is pretty damaged and dry, so I decided to start going natural. But I still let me straighten my hair when my curls make me feel ugly.

I use to use sulfate-shampoo and silicone-conditiones, because that was only combo that made my hair not frizzy when straightening it. I knew it wasn't good for my hair, but silicone-free conditioners did nothing to my hair.

Now I've been natural (not really CG? maybe modified) for a week. It's been a struggle! My problems are frizziness, dryness and ugly curl pattern.

I use BC Bonacure Sulfate-free shampoo and Tresemme Naturals conditioner.
As a co-wash I've used this silicone-free conditioner that is only sold in Finland (ingredients: Aqua
Caprylic/Capric Triglyceride
Propylene Glycol
Cetyl Alcohol
Stearyl Alcohol
Vaccinium Macrocarpon (Cranberry) Fruit Extract
Polyquaternium-57
Cetrimonium Chloride
Betaine
Saccharum Officinarium (Sugar Cane) Extract
Ceteareth-20
Dimethylpabamidopropyl Laurdimonium Tosylate
Diethylhexyl Syringylidenemalonate
Glycerin
Phenoxyethanol
Methylisothiazolinone
Parfum
Titanium Dioxide
Mica
CI 17200
)
I put little bit of Naturals as leave-in and spritz this other finnish leave-in product (ingredients: Aqua, Laurdimonium Hydroxypropyl Hydrolyzed Wheat Protein, Cetrimonium Chloride, PEG-40 Hydrogenated Castor Oil, Panthenol, Polyquaternium-47, Betaine, Strawberry (Fragaria Ananassa) Seed Oil, Benzophenone-4, Malt Extract, Phenoxyethanol, Methylparaben, Propylparaben, Butylene Glycol, Ethylparaben, Parfum, Sodium Hydroxide, Sodium Benzoate ).
For curl enchancing I use Wellas Shockwave Gloss&Body mousse.
I scrunch with old t-shirt and do not brush or comb it after I've rinsed conditioner.

What I need to do? Tell me every little tip. Can I ever get my damaged hair to decent curls? I'm getting annoyied and starting to head towards my straightener..

Pics (not 100% dry, maybe 80%):


Too wide for this page
This too!

Do you see the frizziness? And some hairpieces are not curly at all.. I don't even know my curl type or anything.

Last edited by amaree; 07-15-2013 at 01:36 AM.
Ummmm...first...i think your hair is nice...but i understand ur feelings about the heat damage....but i believe u first need to accept u have curly...or, to me....bc i have 3c/4a hair...it looks like u have wavy hair. Accept that first.

Throw away that flat iron. Give yourself 3 to 6 months and do the CG method. If its that bad...i suggest just cutting it all off and growing a whole new head of hair.

Stop looking at ur curls as a burden....with that mindset, u will always have a hard time with your hair.

Besides....us Curlies have all the fun!

Sent from my LG-LG730 using CurlTalk App
2yrs 7 months post relaxer/2 years and 11 months natural

Cleanse: SM Moisture Retention or Suave Naturals shampoos
Co-Wash: Suave Naturals, L'Oreal EverCreme or EverCurl
RO/Detangler: Tresseme Naturals, GVPCB
Leave-In: SM Curl Enhancing Smoothie, TN, GVPCB
Styler: EcoStyler, GF Pure Clean gel, KCCC

Just discovering my hair likes protein!

Ummmm...first...i think your hair is nice...but i understand ur feelings about the heat damage....but i believe u first need to accept u have curly...or, to me....bc i have 3c/4a hair...it looks like u have wavy hair. Accept that first.

Throw away that flat iron. Give yourself 3 to 6 months and do the CG method. If its that bad...i suggest just cutting it all off and growing a whole new head of hair.

Stop looking at ur curls as a burden....with that mindset, u will always have a hard time with your hair.

Besides....us Curlies have all the fun!

Sent from my LG-LG730 using CurlTalk App
Originally Posted by SmilingElephant
I completely agree. Your hair is going to need a lot of TLC right now. I went through a similar situation with my own hair several years ago and ultimately cut my hair to a bob, then made sure to be super careful with the hair that was left.
And I also agree that you do have very pretty waves. Your hair is exactly what I think of when I picture beachy waves.

3a/f/iii
Modified CG since 11/5/11
CLEANSE: VO5 Vanilla Mint Tea Clarifying, DevaCare No-Poo, CHS Treatment Shampoo
RO: DevaCare One Condition, SS Caitlin's Conditioner, Mop Top Daily Conditioner
LI: SS Repairing Protein Treatment, CHS Silk Leave-In
STYLE: Re:Coil, Curl Keeper, Deva Ultra Defining Gel, Curls Rock Amplifier and Strong Hold Mousse, Sweet Curls Elixirs Okra Gel and Hard Hold Gel, SS Curl Enhancing Jelly and Firm Hold Gel
Welcome!

Firstly you should keep using silicones in heat protection any time you use a flat iron, they are king for this purpose. Also use a low heat setting and only on bone dry hair, preferably dried the day before. Consider wet wrapping for heat free straight hair, consider giving your brush and flat iron to a friend or relative for a few months if you cannot trust yourself.
THE NATURAL HAVEN: Straightening Facts :How hot is too hot?
THE NATURAL HAVEN: Blow Drying Reduces Moisture in Hair (even with low heat!)
THE NATURAL HAVEN: Straightening Hair - Relax or Heat?

Be aware that every time you flat iron you set yourself back, flat ironing temporarily breaks the protein bonds in your hair, eventually this can become permanent (straight bits). It's unlikely you will be able to get healthy looking defined wavy or curly hair whilst you continue to both bleach and flat iron. My hair takes up to three washes to recover from being worn straight (no heat), people who flat iron it can take weeks or months unfortunately.

Ultimately the best thing to do would be to choose between beach blonde OR artificially straight hair, you should be able to have healthy hair with one of these. You might be able to do both if you only lift a small amount from your natural colour, you still look to be very light. It would likely be gentler to have a keratin straightening than fry your hair with the flat iron regularly.

Hair is dead so cannot ever be permanently repaired, you have to grow or cut out the worst of the damage. Some ingredients can help patch repair (temporary) damage, increase strength and elasticity, even help protect from bleach damage. These include coconut oil, hydrolysed protein, ceramides and panthenol.

That conditioner may not be suitable for co-washing, the second and third ingredients are a fatty acid (oil) and a humectant (attracts water), you need a product rich in fatty alcohols (only the fourth and fifth ingredients) and cationic surfactants (barely any) to cleanse hair. Some polyquats build up so watch for them. I am in the UK and use Inecto, you might be able to get that elsewhere in Europe?
Ingredients Commonly Found in Hair Care Products

You probably need to use a LOT more conditioner especially leave in on very wet hair to get your curls to form. A little conditioner will just vanish on very porous or damaged hair. Limit humectants which can make hair frizz and poof, use more occlusives (oils and butters) - these basically replace what silicones used to do for you.

I hated my hair when I started, and mentally 'wrote off' the first year for growing out damage. Now I don't have perfect hair (I still dye but roots only), do have waves and even ringlets I never knew were there. For me the lightbulb moment was realising I would NEVER have good hair if I carried on using commercial products and standard styling techniques, it didn't give me beautiful healthy hair in twenty five years of adult life and a lot of !! Something had to change if I didn't want to still be battling ugly damaged hair in a few years time. You are much more sensible than me if you have had your lightbulb moment after only five years.
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect

Last edited by Firefox7275; 07-15-2013 at 07:12 AM.
Thank you for everyone! I might use Tresemme Naturals as CO for now on. Do you think that the leave-in is good for my hair? Or will I have to change it?

I'm about to buy coconut oil, shea butter and aloe vera gel from iherb! Does these help with dryness and frizziness?

I made some flaxseed gel with hint of olive oil and honey, will it work for my hair type? I am pretty much lost with everything.. I need all the tips you can give me!

Also, it's pretty hard to find apple cider vinegar from here, but we have apple vinegar in the frigde, is it same deal or what's the difference?

And what TLC means?

Last edited by amaree; 07-15-2013 at 09:40 AM.
Thank you for everyone! I might use Tresemme Naturals as CO for now on. Do you think that the leave-in is good for my hair? Or will I have to change it?

I'm about to buy coconut oil, shea butter and aloe vera gel from iherb! I hope it helps.

I made some flaxseed gel with hint of olive oil and honey, will it work for my hair type? I am pretty much lost with everything.. I need all the tips you can give me!

Also, it's pretty hard to find apple cider vinegar from here, but we have apple vinegar in the frigde, is it same deal or what's the difference?
Originally Posted by amaree
If you have fine or thin or wavy hair use penetrating oils as ingredients not straight up, you will likely find shea butter weighs your hair down and may even build up, it does not penetrate the hair, coconut oil does so is wonderful as a deep treatment on porous or damaged hair. Vinegar is not an essential part of CG and can be drying if overused.

Honey and aloe vera are humectants (attract water), whether they work for you depends on your hair properties and dew points/ humidity. They can cause frizz on porous hair which you likely have being bleach and heat damaged.
Mineral Oil Versus Coconut Oil: Which is better?
The Curl Whisperer on Humectants and Humidity | Curly Nikki | Natural Hair Styles and Natural Hair Care

The spritz seems ok but is not a true leave in conditioner that will help your hair hold the right amount of moisture and clump/ define curls, a true conditioner is rich in fatty alcohols and cationic surfactants.

We can give you tips if you work out your hair properties and dew points/ humidity. There is a frizz forecast app on the main NC site. Hair properties on Live Curly Live Free
http://livecurlylivefree.com/curly%20hair%20basics.htm
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect
I think apple vinegar is the same thing. Type "spritz and condish method" in the search box. I know several wavies who found that helped them a lot the first few months when they were growing out damaged hair. Give it a try!
I'm not so good with knowing my hair type but the Frizz Forecast says this:
Temp
54
Humidity
86%
Dew
50
Pleasant Waves
How to Manage Pleasant Waves
This can be a tricky dew point range. You will have waves and curls, but you might start to experience some frizz. Skip mousses and hairsprays which contain alcohol and can cause the cuticle to swell up.

I think that my hair is medium width to fine. Naturally I think (my roots now for example) that my hair is medium, but for now it's fine due to damage. I also think that it's highly porous.

This was my hair before any bleaching or heat-damage, big difference, huh? Those were my waves when I just brushed them. I don't know why my hair doesn't wave much in this pic tho..

Do you think that this would be better conditioner(maybe for leaving-in?)?
Aqua
Cetyl Alcohol
Cetearyl Alcohol
PPG-3 Benzyl Ether Myristate
Behentrimonium Methosulfate
Quaternium-33
Cetrimonium Chloride
Panthenol
Polysorbate 60
Cocoa (Theobroma Cacao) Extract
Quaternium-91
Tocopheryl Acetate
Piroctone Olamine
Cetrimonium Methosulfate
Propylene Glycol
Parfum
Hexyl Cinnamal
Methylparaben
Propylparaben

Could you also recommend me some good leave-in? I am really bad at this, I can barely find silicones and sulfates from ingredients so I am no good..

Last edited by amaree; 07-15-2013 at 10:24 AM.
I'm not so good with knowing my hair type but the Frizz Forecast says this:
How to Manage Pleasant Waves
This can be a tricky dew point range. You will have waves and curls, but you might start to experience some frizz. Skip mousses and hairsprays which contain alcohol and can cause the cuticle to swell up.

I think that my hair is medium width to fine. Naturally I think (my roots now for example) that my hair is medium, but for now it's fine due to damage. I also think that it's highly porous.

This was my hair before any bleaching or heat-damage, big difference, huh? Those were my waves when I just brushed them.

Do you think that this would be better conditioner(maybe for leaving-in?)? I am really bad at this, I can barely find silicones and sulfates from ingredients so I am no good..
Originally Posted by amaree
You will get there: it's a lot to take in initially, we will help as much as we can.

Sulphate surfactants always have the word 'sulphate', it's not part of a word but a word all by itself, usually the full name is three words something-lauryl-sulphate or something-laureth-sulphate. So magnesium sulphate is not a surfactant it's a salt!

Silicones have the suffix (end part of a word) -cone, -conol, -xane. If you are not sure just post up the full ingredients list and we can tell you what type of ingredients it contains. There are a few European curlies here who are helpful.
Ingredients Commonly Found in Hair Care Products

Given your humidity is on the higher end I would limit the major humectants (glycerin, honey, aloe vera, propylene glycol), so you can use a little but not high in the ingredients list. Use coconut oil to reduce porosity and increase elasticity, hydrolysed protein to strengthen and boost curl. Either one as a deep treatment or ingredient in conditioner.

My hair is quite porous and colour damaged, my hair is liking Schwarzkopf Gliss (Kur) Ultimate Volume conditioner which is CG friendly and reasonably priced in Europe. I am using it as a leave in, one of the other wavies is experimenting with it as a deep treatment. I also have to use something containing an oil - usually my deep conditioner - to get a balance.

Ingredients for the Gliss, embolded the panthenol and proteins "water, cetearyl alcohol, hydrolyzed collagen, panthenol, cocodimonium hydroxypropyl hydrolyzed keratin, hydrolyzed keratin, isopropyl myristate, behonoyl PG-trimonium chloride, citric acid, VP/VA copolymer, phenoxyethanol, behentrimonium chloride, sodium methylparaben, hexylene glycol, fragrance, polyquaternium-37, dicaprylyl carbonate, hexyl cinnamal, amyl cinnamal, limonene, linalool, benzyl salicylate."
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect

Last edited by Firefox7275; 07-15-2013 at 10:34 AM.
I have to check that conditioner! I always thought that Gliss products had almost nothing BUT silicones... And I always stay away from anything that says "volume", because I thought they are the least conditioning products..
Firefox7275 likes this.
I have to check that conditioner! I always thought that Gliss products had almost nothing BUT silicones... And I always stay away from anything that says "volume", because I thought they are the least conditioning products..
Originally Posted by amaree
That line is fairly new and is the only one of their that is silicone free: I found it thanks to the lovely Neleke. I've just ordered the mousse and spray to try out and will report back on NC. In this case the volume is from the protein not from drying salts which many 'volume' products contain.

It's not a massively 'slippy' conditioner like you'd want for a detangling session or a deep condition, but it does condition - the cetearyl alcohol and panthenol are excellent conditioning agents, protein helps the cuticle lay flat as well as strengthening damaged hair. I am getting really good curl, bit of shine, softness, some frizz control when I use the right amount.

At the moment I use it for a few washes then switch to something richer/ oilier or do a deep condition/ coconut oiling - I can tell when I need to switch because my hair may feel a little dryer or look frizzy when soaking wet. It's about finding the right balance for your hair. The good news is the Gliss is inexpensive so you can hopefully afford to experiment with it.
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect
Okay, thank you for your help I will purchase this next.

I am little pissed because hairdressers. Couple days ago I went to buy sulphate-free shampoo and the hairdresser didn't even know which had sulphate and which didn't, and then she almost sold me some shampoo with sodium lauryl sulphate. And then another hairdresser came to help us, but she said that they don't have what I was looking for.. I thought that they should know about these things!
Firefox7275 likes this.

Last edited by amaree; 07-15-2013 at 12:03 PM.
Okay, thank you for your help I will purchase this next.

I am little pissed because hairdressers. Couple days ago I went to buy sulphate-free shampoo and the hairdresser didn't even know which had sulphate and which didn't, and then she almost sold me some shampoo with sodium lauryl sulphate. And then another hairdresser came to help us, but she said that they don't have what I was looking for.. I thought that they should know about these things!
Originally Posted by amaree
They should, I agree. Not just for curlies but because sulphates are proven to thin and dehydrate the skin and are not recommended for people with eczema. People on hair forums know more than some professionals!!

I found the same as you, some/ many hairdressers don't have a clue what sulphates or silicones are. I go to the salon with clean very wet hair and get a wet cut or just trim my own hair now.
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect
I like to plug products into curlmart because it'll show you under ingredients if its sulfate it silicon or whatever free.
remember, you can still straighten your hair sometimes! i straighten my whole head twice a month, and every day that its straight, i put a dab of olive oil on my ends to keep it moisturised. on sunday i went swimming, and even after the straightening and the chlorine, after a co-wash my hair seemed to bounce back to very soft curls. you just need to make sure you put the moisture back in with deep condish, co washes, etc.
Curl pattern: Loose waved underlayer, a mixture of 2b, 2c, 3a
Porosity: Low
Density: Thick
Length: When stretched approx 5cm above belly button
Low poo: Tresemme Naturals
Conditioner: Herbal Essences Hello Hydration
Styler: Olive Oil Eco Styler
Deep conditioner: Olive oil

How much of rinse out conditioner I can use as a leave-in? Somehow I am not very convinced about using something that is supposed to be rinsed.. What are the ingredients that you shouldn't leave in your hair?

I don't like this non-brushed look at all! It makes my roots look dirty eventhough they aren't..

Last edited by amaree; 07-16-2013 at 02:11 AM.
How much of rinse out conditioner I can use as a leave-in? Somehow I am not very convinced about using something that is supposed to be rinsed.. What are the ingredients that you shouldn't leave in your hair?

I don't like this non-brushed look at all! It makes my roots look dirty eventhough they aren't..
Originally Posted by amaree
Rinse out and leave in conditioners contain many of the same ingredients, sometimes rinse out are thicker/ richer. Companies prefer you to use rinse outs because you use more, waste more and buy more.

Assuming the product is CG friendly no specific ingredients should not be left in your hair they are all fine. The amount you use depends on your hair type and the specific product, use enough to start clumping and get a squishy 'seaweedy' noise.
amaree likes this.
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect
I don't have a lot of hair wisdom for you, but definitely moisture and probably protein.
What I was going to chime in and say is that I understand how you feel about feeling "prettier" with your hair straight. I struggle with this too, so I will be the unpopular voice and tell you that it's okay to do what makes you feel good. If that's straightening, don't feel bad about it. But I think you can still learn a lot about how to care for your hair and how to properly moisturize it. And hopefully you can find the best of both- you'll be able to wear it straight and curly. My goal has switched from being curly all the time to having healthy hair that I can wear however I want.
Curly work in progress
2C with some 3A if all the stars align
Low porosity, medium to low density and fine
No sulfates since 2009
CG since 2013

In my stash:
Shampoos and conditioners- Tresemme Naturals Low Poo, Tresemme Naturals Moisturizing Aloe, Suave Naturals Coconut
Leave Ins- Kinky Curly Knot Today
Stylers- KCCC, AG Recoil, KY Lubricant (yup), SM Curl Milk
Gels- Ecostyler, Biosilk RHG
Mousse- Devacurl Uplifting Foam, Suave Captivating Curls

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