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-   -   PT help (http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/general-discussion-about-curly-hair/160544-pt-help.html)

allie.clark. 07-15-2013 11:29 PM

PT help
 
I did a gelatin treatment a few days ago and it really help my curls, but it lasted like 2 days and now my curls are going flat again. Is there a way to lock it in better or another treatment that lasts longer? I have high porosity hair and a lot of heat damage.

anonymous_133347 07-16-2013 12:09 AM

How long did you leave it in? And which recipe did you use? To maximize the benefit, you need to leave it in longer. Of course it's dependent on your properties (and weather) how much protein your hair can tolerate in the first place. . .

allie.clark. 07-16-2013 02:29 AM

I did the DIY one that's posted on here that yo make with vinegar and I left it on for over an hour. My hair loved it. The curls were much tighter and defined. The weather has had dew points in the 60's all week but today was in the 70's. Could that be why it went flatter?

kathymack 07-16-2013 04:56 AM

First of all, you should determine your hair properties. Here's a link to help Curly Hair Basics | Live Curly Live Free This will help you with choosing ingredients/products. It will also help people give you advice.

When the dewpoints are higher, hair likes more protein. Even those with protein sensitivity tolerate more of certain proteins. I do at least one PT a week and use a lot of products with protein, add protein spray or ingredients like Sea Kelp Biofermant. It really helps with volume and frizz. We've had dewpoints in the mid 70's the last 3 weeks and my hair hasn't been bad.

Firefox7275 07-16-2013 05:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allie.clark. (Post 2191290)
I did a gelatin treatment a few days ago and it really help my curls, but it lasted like 2 days and now my curls are going flat again. Is there a way to lock it in better or another treatment that lasts longer? I have high porosity hair and a lot of heat damage.

Have patience because hair is dead, it took a long time for it to get damaged and it will take time for it to improve.

Just keep doing both protein and coconut oil treatments regularly, you will only get a certain amount of penetration and adherence each time. Then whenever you wash your hair some of the protein and fatty acids are removed, there is no way to make it stay in or on the hair permanently, that is why we are best not to limit damage, aiming to retain our natural fatty acids and proteins which are bonded to the hair.

Heat and a longer timescale may help a little more penetrate but it will not help more adhere to the surface once all the damage is patched. You can also use a protein rich leave in conditioner, work with your hair properties when you select ingredients - make every product work for you.

FloridaCurly 07-16-2013 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kathymack (Post 2191331)
First of all, you should determine your hair properties. Here's a link to help Curly Hair Basics | Live Curly Live Free This will help you with choosing ingredients/products. It will also help people give you advice.

When the dewpoints are higher, hair likes more protein. Even those with protein sensitivity tolerate more of certain proteins. I do at least one PT a week and use a lot of products with protein, add protein spray or ingredients like Sea Kelp Biofermant. It really helps with volume and frizz. We've had dewpoints in the mid 70's the last 3 weeks and my hair hasn't been bad.

Kathymack - I've seen other posts by you which mention the Sea Kelp and I'm pretty sure you buy it in bulk add it to products (maybe FSG?). Is that right? Do you know of any products that contain Sea Kelp that you would recommend?

Firefox7275 07-16-2013 06:30 AM

Not KathyMack but a couple of the Komaza Care products contain sea kelp bioferment, you can just use SKB straight up tho you don't have to be into DIY. Some claim it helps increase growth.

kathymack 07-16-2013 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FloridaCurly (Post 2191336)
Quote:

Originally Posted by kathymack (Post 2191331)
First of all, you should determine your hair properties. Here's a link to help Curly Hair Basics | Live Curly Live Free This will help you with choosing ingredients/products. It will also help people give you advice.

When the dewpoints are higher, hair likes more protein. Even those with protein sensitivity tolerate more of certain proteins. I do at least one PT a week and use a lot of products with protein, add protein spray or ingredients like Sea Kelp Biofermant. It really helps with volume and frizz. We've had dewpoints in the mid 70's the last 3 weeks and my hair hasn't been bad.

Kathymack - I've seen other posts by you which mention the Sea Kelp and I'm pretty sure you buy it in bulk add it to products (maybe FSG?). Is that right? Do you know of any products that contain Sea Kelp that you would recommend?

I don't know of any products and nothing turns up when you do a google search (except the actual SKB.) Glad to hear that Komaza is including it. I just scanned the website and couldn't find any products that had SKB.

I can add it to FSG or okra gel. This am, I actually used a tiny amount, straight, as my first layer and then added a leave in and jelly product. My hair came out well.

chloe92us 07-16-2013 10:43 AM

I think the Aquage line has it.

allie.clark. 07-16-2013 05:09 PM

Where can I purchase the SKB? I like the idea of adding it to my products because my hair is really picky and I have a lot of allergies. I have mixed hair texture. It's fine and medium. The fine hair actually curls great, the sections with more medium hair does not. I read the link you posted kathymack but it only talked about texture and never mentioned products. The page seems to stop abruptly. I'm going to be right by Sally's and wally world (walmart) in a little bit and wonder if there's anything I should pick up?

Firefox7275 07-17-2013 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allie.clark. (Post 2191631)
Where can I purchase the SKB? I like the idea of adding it to my products because my hair is really picky and I have a lot of allergies. I have mixed hair texture. It's fine and medium. The fine hair actually curls great, the sections with more medium hair does not. I read the link you posted kathymack but it only talked about texture and never mentioned products. The page seems to stop abruptly. I'm going to be right by Sally's and wally world (walmart) in a little bit and wonder if there's anything I should pick up?

This place is reasonably priced and reliable: the store owner is a long haired wavy research scientist, I 'know' her from discussing on forums (but not IRL) and trust her opinion/ experience.
Sea Kelp Ferment/ Bioferment/Extract -300 grams, 10.58 oz.


KathyMack SKB is in the Komaza Care Stinky Stuff and I think one of their other scalp products but can't recall which. They use aloe vera more.

kathymack 07-17-2013 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firefox7275 (Post 2191804)


KathyMack SKB is in the Komaza Care Stinky Stuff and I think one of their other scalp products but can't recall which. They use aloe vera more.

Thanks. Stinky Stuff didn't come up when I went through products by "concern." I did see it when I went through product by product.

allie.clark. 07-17-2013 11:57 PM

Turns out Giovanni smooth as silk cond that I use for my leave in has sea kelp in it. Plus lots of other proteins. Is it safe to use 1/2diluted ACV in the shower every other day? I wanted to try and see if it helps me. Btw what are typical signs that too much protein is being used?
I've given up on trying to get curlier results and will just continue with weekly PT. It has definitely curled more than about a month ago when I started, so I hope it continues. If anything I guess when the damage has been cut out ill have a good idea of how my hair is.

Firefox7275 07-18-2013 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allie.clark. (Post 2192092)
Turns out Giovanni smooth as silk cond that I use for my leave in has sea kelp in it. Plus lots of other proteins. Is it safe to use 1/2diluted ACV in the shower every other day? I wanted to try and see if it helps me. Btw what are typical signs that too much protein is being used?
I've given up on trying to get curlier results and will just continue with weekly PT. It has definitely curled more than about a month ago when I started, so I hope it continues. If anything I guess when the damage has been cut out ill have a good idea of how my hair is.

Is it sea kelp or sea kelp bioferment? As I understand it they are not the same ingredient.

You should not need to dilute vinegar by only 50%, that could be quite drying. If the pH of your products are in the right acidic range you should not get massive benefit from regular vinegar rinses - a small dilution will 'soften' the water, occasional treatments with more concentrated solution can help remove some hard water deposits, regular use is really for encouraging the cuticle to lay flat as hair dries which your products should be doing.
The Scoop on Vinegar
THE NATURAL HAVEN: Apple Cider Vinegar : Good or Not?
‚™°‚™°‚™°Structure of Hair Part 2 - pH Balance Basics - YouTube (one of a series)
The Science of Black Hair on pH Problems & pH Balancing (Moisture Basics 3/4) - YouTube

allie.clark. 07-18-2013 07:51 PM

Ok, so regular ACV is a no go. I'm just getting frustrated and I want to give up. My hair was super curly (for me) after the protein treatment but its only ok athe day I wash. I cannot get 2nd day hair. Even if I pineapple, my curls are too loose and come out easy. Then I spray water and I've tried different products, to no avail. A tiny bit of coconut oil makes my hair feel greasy and weighs it down, i have shea moisture spray, and when I use that I do get some curl definition (not as good as day one) but it gets crunchy and a bit stringy but it wont scrunch out later. I'm not sure what else to try or if I'm just one of those people that can't do second day hair.

chloe92us 07-18-2013 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allie.clark. (Post 2192390)
I'm just one of those people that can't do second day hair.

Don't worry....you're not alone!!!!! :sad7:

allie.clark. 07-18-2013 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chloe92us (Post 2192401)
Quote:

Originally Posted by allie.clark. (Post 2192390)
I'm just one of those people that can't do second day hair.

Don't worry....you're not alone!!!!! :sad7:

Have you found anything that even remotely works for you? There are days I just don't have time to do everything to my hair. So I'm wondering what options I have on those days. I'm still hoping that more curls will get stronger and more defined with time, but I can't afford to keep buying new products lol! I've spent enough already. Some people mentioned aloe Vera gel. Problem is I think that's a humectant, right? I live in an area with dew points in the 70's often, so I'm not sure that will work for me.

Firefox, to answer your question. No, the Giovanni sea kelp does not say bioferment but extract, but from what i have been reading it seems likely that it has still gone through the fermentation process when put in cosmetics, and hair care products. Some sites list them as interchangeable. I cannot say for certain unless I would actually call Giovanni. I would like to add that it is the deep moisture conditioner that contains it, no the regular.

Firefox7275 07-19-2013 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allie.clark. (Post 2192390)
Ok, so regular ACV is a no go. I'm just getting frustrated and I want to give up. My hair was super curly (for me) after the protein treatment but its only ok athe day I wash. I cannot get 2nd day hair. Even if I pineapple, my curls are too loose and come out easy. Then I spray water and I've tried different products, to no avail. A tiny bit of coconut oil makes my hair feel greasy and weighs it down, i have shea moisture spray, and when I use that I do get some curl definition (not as good as day one) but it gets crunchy and a bit stringy but it wont scrunch out later. I'm not sure what else to try or if I'm just one of those people that can't do second day hair.

Aw don't give up look at the bigger picture, you gave commercial haircare products and techniques years of your life and $$$ from your wallet right? You also took months or years to get to this level of damage/ porosity right? You have difficult hair and high dews, that is a tough combination but you know more already than most people about haircare.

You know hydrolysed protein has had a positive effect so stick with it, try longer or more frequent treatments or with heat, try a protein rich leave in conditioner. No 'repair' is permanent unfortunately, anything that penetrates diffuses in slowly and in small amounts so it is going to take perseverance and repetition. Also do coconut oil soaks on dry hair as a pre wash as in the published research, it's very difficult to use straight up as a leave in.

You might not get decent second day hair whilst you still have a lot of porosity and damage, I certainly didn't. Maybe look on YouTube for ideas on wavy up dos or purchase the book 'Strictly Curls'. As your hair gets healthier and the old damage grows out and the porosity reduces your hair should become easier to manage.


Quote:

Originally Posted by allie.clark. (Post 2192435)
Firefox, to answer your question. No, the Giovanni sea kelp does not say bioferment but extract, but from what i have been reading it seems likely that it has still gone through the fermentation process when put in cosmetics, and hair care products. Some sites list them as interchangeable. I cannot say for certain unless I would actually call Giovanni. I would like to add that it is the deep moisture conditioner that contains it, no the regular.

Extract may be the same thing yes.

allie.clark. 07-19-2013 10:02 AM

Thanks for the encouragement Firefox. It's definitely true I shouldn't expect overnight or even results in a month or two. I am going to see about getting a sea kelp supplement since it has been shown to help hair grow faster. It's worth a shot. I am definitely glad hydrolyzed protein is cheap! Lol! I'll keep at it, but I am mad at myself for torturing my hair for so long. Had I known what I do now...in the meantime I'm going to take Dori's motto "just keep swimming" lol!

chloe92us 07-19-2013 11:16 AM

Hi Allie- I've found that in order to get 2nd day hair, I have to have *perfect* first day hair.

I spray it with a refresher spray before I go to bed to "reactivate" the gel from day 1, and put it in pigtails. The next morning, if it looks do-able, I smooth on a light hold gel (preferences for this are Uncle Funky's Curly Magic, Spiral Solutions Curl jelly, or CJ CIAB, sometimes Loreal Out of Bed). I smooth it over my canopy, then flip upside down and smooth over the bottom. I then take any recognizable clumps and smooth it down the clump to reform it a bit.

However, this is rare. In general, I prefer to wear my hair curly and this only happens if I go through my whole routine. On day 2 my clumps have usually fallen apart and I have frizz. It tends to not even look wavy, which I would be happy with if there wasn't all the frizz.


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