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Old 07-19-2013, 09:28 PM   #21
 
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I haven't re-tried cones since going CG last November, so MAYBE they're what the doctor ordered...I suppose we'll see.

So I'm a little concerned now about the parabens....geez. I looked and have a lot of products with parabens in them. Should I be scared?
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Conditioner: VO5 Kiwi Lime (LOVE!), Tresemme Naturals, YTC
DT: GVP Conditioning Balm w/ coconut oil
LI: a touch of JCTS
Products: my HG is Tresemme Bouncy Curls Defining Gel mixed with a touch of BRHG over a little flax seed gel, SM Souflee/Milk for 2nd day hair, occasionally Bioterra Curling Creme and Gel
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Old 07-19-2013, 09:32 PM   #22
 
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Mimic estrogen, huh? What does that mean exactly?
Parabens (Propyl, Isopropyl, Butyl, and Isobutylparabens): Parabens are estrogen-mimicking preservatives, found in breast cancer tumors of 19 of 20 women studied. The CDC has detected parabens in virtually all Americans surveyed. According to the European Commission’s Scientific Committee on Consumer Products, longer chain parabens like propyl and butyl paraben and their branched counterparts, isopropyl and isobutylparabens, may disrupt the endocrine system and cause reproductive and developmental disorders.

Top tips for safer products | Skin Deep® Cosmetics Database | Environmental Working Group
WOW, thank you for this. I honestly never knew why parabens were negative. I just knew not to use them. That is very scary honestly.
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Old 07-20-2013, 07:10 AM   #23
 
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So I'm a little concerned now about the parabens....geez. I looked and have a lot of products with parabens in them. Should I be scared?
I can't tell you whether or not to use them, I can only pass on relevant research so that everyone can make informed decisions. There is enough evidence for concern but I understand that everyone will make a personal decision as with anything in life. I like to avoid them myself. There are some products that I recently bought (I was rushed when reading the back) that have parabens and I will finish them but not repurchase. There are plenty of products out there that are paraben-free so I don't see the need to continue to monetarily endorse shady practices.
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*Used to be low-porosity, but I lightened my hair 1-2 shades, so I may be normal-porosity now.

New climate! Current favorites:
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RO: V05 Kiwi Lime
Styler: UFD CM (old formula), FSG + CNPF
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Old 07-20-2013, 08:05 AM   #24
 
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I haven't re-tried cones since going CG last November, so MAYBE they're what the doctor ordered...I suppose we'll see.

So I'm a little concerned now about the parabens....geez. I looked and have a lot of products with parabens in them. Should I be scared?
The research is equivocal and there are a lot of variables, I limit parabens and try not to use them in combination with ingredients that thin or damage the skin barrier or act as penetration enhancer. The skin is a semi permeable barrier, it evolved to keep water in and keep nasties out, but many modern skin and haircare products and techniques negatively affect that. Our skin did not evolve to have multiple products all containing multiple ingredients thrown at it every day, nor to be soaked/ wetted in the shower on a daily basis.

For example I don't use any sulphate surfactants (hand wash, shower gel, toothpaste, hair dye etc), no alkaline products (baking soda, traditional soap), limit oils rich in oleic acid which is irritant and a penetration enhancer, don't exfoliate too often and don't soak my skin in the shower - again penetration enhancer.
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Old 07-21-2013, 01:10 AM   #25
 
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So it certainly makes sense to avoid parabens if they'll be in direct contact with my skin where they can be absorbed, but I wonder how much damage they can actually do if just applied in small amounts to my hair. I don't plan to slather my skin in any or inhale them (if that's even possible!) and I usually avoid applying products too close to my scalp - do you think that makes a difference? Some of my favorite products have them and I'd hate to give them up. But, I also clearly don't want breast cancer...!

So if I do revert to silicones and use them daily, I probably need to low poo daily too, right? Ick. Right now I only low poo twice a month or so. Build-up hasn't ever seemed like too much of a problem for me even with my polyquat use. I guess I'd just have to try it and see how often my hair needs poo.
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Cleanse: Pura D'Or every week or two, Yes to Cukes
Conditioner: VO5 Kiwi Lime (LOVE!), Tresemme Naturals, YTC
DT: GVP Conditioning Balm w/ coconut oil
LI: a touch of JCTS
Products: my HG is Tresemme Bouncy Curls Defining Gel mixed with a touch of BRHG over a little flax seed gel, SM Souflee/Milk for 2nd day hair, occasionally Bioterra Curling Creme and Gel
Modified CG since November 2012- finally found what works!
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Old 07-21-2013, 06:30 AM   #26
 
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I think you'll have to see how they build up. I would think low pooing weekly would do it.
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Old 07-21-2013, 06:54 AM   #27
 
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I think you'll have to see how they build up. I would think low pooing weekly would do it.
This. Also, keep in mind that certain cones do not build up at all. For example, cyclo-cones evaporate off of the hair during the drying process, and the family of silicones that includes amodimethicone will patch/deposit a single layer and then repel itself against additional layers, which is why it's such a popular ingredient in conditioners (I also suspect this is why amodimethicone seems to be better tolerated by some people). You might also want to experiment with using cones only in certain products vs. others. For example, I have no issues using cones in styling products, but don't do well with cones in cleansers or conditioners (except a designated LI).
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Old 07-21-2013, 08:08 AM   #28
 
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I use methylparaben and propylparaben, because they're naturally derived and found in fruits such as berries (I loooove blueberries!) but I don't touch the other ones. I have enough breast trouble as it is.

I love how easy silicones make it to detangle, but unfortunately they make my scalp itch The only one I can get away with is amodimethicone, but even too much of that gets the itches going if I'm not careful. :'(
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Old 07-21-2013, 10:22 AM   #29
 
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Originally Posted by itsKelCeeEee View Post
I use methylparaben and propylparaben, because they're naturally derived and found in fruits such as berries (I loooove blueberries!) but I don't touch the other ones. I have enough breast trouble as it is.

I love how easy silicones make it to detangle, but unfortunately they make my scalp itch The only one I can get away with is amodimethicone, but even too much of that gets the itches going if I'm not careful. :'(
This is soooooo off topic, but I absolutely love your sig pic. I always giggle when I see it.
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High Porosity, Fine, Thin Density, Low Elasticity
Suave for co-wash and rinse out. SM restorative as leave in. Ogx mousse, la looks, la bella, and cantu natural for stylers. Clarify and low poo once a month.
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Old 07-21-2013, 04:12 PM   #30
 
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Originally Posted by Firefox7275 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by WavyRoo View Post
I haven't re-tried cones since going CG last November, so MAYBE they're what the doctor ordered...I suppose we'll see.

So I'm a little concerned now about the parabens....geez. I looked and have a lot of products with parabens in them. Should I be scared?
The research is equivocal and there are a lot of variables, I limit parabens and try not to use them in combination with ingredients that thin or damage the skin barrier or act as penetration enhancer. The skin is a semi permeable barrier, it evolved to keep water in and keep nasties out, but many modern skin and haircare products and techniques negatively affect that. Our skin did not evolve to have multiple products all containing multiple ingredients thrown at it every day, nor to be soaked/ wetted in the shower on a daily basis.

For example I don't use any sulphate surfactants (hand wash, shower gel, toothpaste, hair dye etc), no alkaline products (baking soda, traditional soap), limit oils rich in oleic acid which is irritant and a penetration enhancer, don't exfoliate too often and don't soak my skin in the shower - again penetration enhancer.
I don't know what would make you say that all of the research done on parabens is "equivocal." The SkinDeep site is useful in that their cautions are backed up by a variety of studies, many of which are found in scientific journals which you can look up yourself. Here's an example for propylparaben: PROPYLPARABEN || Skin Deep® Cosmetics Database | Environmental Working Group Check the citations on the bottom.

Remember that you yourself have posted several times that sodium lauryl
sulfate cause thinning of the skin, and pointed me to the study UK Public Assessment Reports on drug safety : MHRA. AFAIK, this is the only study that links sls and thinning of the skin, and it is a admittedly a small study as it is only comprised of 71 subjects. The writers of the article also wrote: "Aqueous cream contains sodium lauryl sulfate (SLS) which may cause local
skin reactions (eg, stinging and contact dermatitis), particularly in children with atopic eczema. Other ingredients such as preservatives may also contribute to skin reactions." The results could have been given off by preservatives, but the researches thought that the culprit was probably the sls, with the preservatives possibly worsening or contributing to the result. Note that this study was done with sls in an aqueous cream... not in a wash-off cleansing product. The aqueous cream itself is a variable in this study.

That being said, this small study was enough to raise my eyebrow! I had been avoiding sulfates for years anyway because they were harsh on my hair and skin and recently got my allergic, eczema-prone mom off sulfates too, because it's best to be on the safe side.

The point that I'm trying to make is that you seem to take certain studies very seriously, but then are quick to wave off an entire body of research as "equivocal" with nothing scientific to back your claim. I realize that you yourself had bad experiences with sulfates, and cutting them made a markable change for the better. The thing with ingredients like parabens is they could be interfering with your hormones without you knowing or noticing... that doesn't make them any less potent just because you do not see the damage.

I realize that you followed with "I limit parabens..." but you started with "The research is equivocal." No it's not "equivocal" ....at least not more equivocal than all the other scientific research out there on any other topic, including the research on sls and thinning skin.

I'm asking for consistency here and a little bit of respect for the information I put forward. If you choose not to believe any of the research that's fine, but that doesn't mean the research itself is bunk.
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__________________
fine - normal porosity*?- medium density - normal elasticity. Hard water. SoCal.
*Used to be low-porosity, but I lightened my hair 1-2 shades, so I may be normal-porosity now.

New climate! Current favorites:
Low-poo: CJ Gentle Cleansing Shampoo, Giovanni SaS
RO: V05 Kiwi Lime
Styler: UFD CM (old formula), FSG + CNPF
PT: CJ Repair Me, IAgirl's gelatine

Experimenting with: JC Confident Coils, JC Rockin Ringlets, CJ CIAB, gelatin gel

iherb discount code: CFN646
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Old 07-21-2013, 07:20 PM   #31
 
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My hair is at its best with cones and sulfate!
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Old 07-21-2013, 07:38 PM   #32
 
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I did some thorough past evaluation of my hair when I began being natural, but still using cones (not realizing what they were). I think I am way better off without them, because my hair responds better with non-silicone products. I just thought to let everyone know, even though this was kind of pointless lmao.
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High Porosity, Fine, Thin Density, Low Elasticity
Suave for co-wash and rinse out. SM restorative as leave in. Ogx mousse, la looks, la bella, and cantu natural for stylers. Clarify and low poo once a month.
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Old 07-21-2013, 08:27 PM   #33
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wavydaze View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefox7275 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by WavyRoo View Post
I haven't re-tried cones since going CG last November, so MAYBE they're what the doctor ordered...I suppose we'll see.

So I'm a little concerned now about the parabens....geez. I looked and have a lot of products with parabens in them. Should I be scared?
The research is equivocal and there are a lot of variables, I limit parabens and try not to use them in combination with ingredients that thin or damage the skin barrier or act as penetration enhancer. The skin is a semi permeable barrier, it evolved to keep water in and keep nasties out, but many modern skin and haircare products and techniques negatively affect that. Our skin did not evolve to have multiple products all containing multiple ingredients thrown at it every day, nor to be soaked/ wetted in the shower on a daily basis.

For example I don't use any sulphate surfactants (hand wash, shower gel, toothpaste, hair dye etc), no alkaline products (baking soda, traditional soap), limit oils rich in oleic acid which is irritant and a penetration enhancer, don't exfoliate too often and don't soak my skin in the shower - again penetration enhancer.
I don't know what would make you say that all of the research done on parabens is "equivocal." The SkinDeep site is useful in that their cautions are backed up by a variety of studies, many of which are found in scientific journals which you can look up yourself. Here's an example for propylparaben: PROPYLPARABEN || Skin Deep® Cosmetics Database | Environmental Working Group Check the citations on the bottom.

Remember that you yourself have posted several times that sodium lauryl
sulfate cause thinning of the skin, and pointed me to the study UK Public Assessment Reports on drug safety : MHRA. AFAIK, this is the only study that links sls and thinning of the skin, and it is a admittedly a small study as it is only comprised of 71 subjects. The writers of the article also wrote: "Aqueous cream contains sodium lauryl sulfate (SLS) which may cause local
skin reactions (eg, stinging and contact dermatitis), particularly in children with atopic eczema. Other ingredients such as preservatives may also contribute to skin reactions." The results could have been given off by preservatives, but the researches thought that the culprit was probably the sls, with the preservatives possibly worsening or contributing to the result. Note that this study was done with sls in an aqueous cream... not in a wash-off cleansing product. The aqueous cream itself is a variable in this study.

That being said, this small study was enough to raise my eyebrow! I had been avoiding sulfates for years anyway because they were harsh on my hair and skin and recently got my allergic, eczema-prone mom off sulfates too, because it's best to be on the safe side.

The point that I'm trying to make is that you seem to take certain studies very seriously, but then are quick to wave off an entire body of research as "equivocal" with nothing scientific to back your claim. I realize that you yourself had bad experiences with sulfates, and cutting them made a markable change for the better. The thing with ingredients like parabens is they could be interfering with your hormones without you knowing or noticing... that doesn't make them any less potent just because you do not see the damage.

I realize that you followed with "I limit parabens..." but you started with "The research is equivocal." No it's not "equivocal" ....at least not more equivocal than all the other scientific research out there on any other topic, including the research on sls and thinning skin.

I'm asking for consistency here and a little bit of respect for the information I put forward. If you choose not to believe any of the research that's fine, but that doesn't mean the research itself is bunk.

I love skindeep's website and have been avoiding parabens in my skin care products for six years now. I've only recently extended the practice to haircare because before CG I had a hard time finding anything that would work for my hair and the few products that did contained parabens. I had the privilege of going to an EWG event a few years ago and it was very illuminating. I think the work they do is commendable and I've donated to the organization and made several product reports myself.
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CG since Nov. 2012

Poos: SM Moisture Retention + Yucca Baobab, TJ's Tea Tree Tingle
Condish: TJ 'sTea Tree Tingle*, SM Moisture Retention* + Curl & Shine + Yucca Baobab, Yes to Blueberries
Stylers: KCKT*, SM Curl Enhancing Smoothie* + Curl & Style Milk*, KCCC*, FSG*, CJ Pattern Pusha, Curl Keeper
Sealers: Jojoba* or Grapeseed* oil

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