Back to cones

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Welllll...I think I'm going to have to go back to cones. I just can't seem to make purely CG products work for me. . Before CG, I used Aquage Defining Gel and really really liked it. I do have low poos with coco betaine- would it take care of build-up? Here are the ingredients...any serious red flags?

Water, PVP/VA Copolymer, Hydroxypropyl Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride, Propylene Glycol, Polyquaternium-4,PPG-24-Glycereth-24, Ascophyllum nodosum Extract, chondres crispus (carrageenen) extract, gellidiela acerosa extract, Hypnea Musiciformis Extract, Neptune Kelp Extract, palmaria palmata, extract, Sargassum Filipendula Extract, undaria pinnatifida extract, Peg-40 Hydrogenated Castor Oil, PPG-10 Mehtyl Glucose Ether, Dimethicone Copolyol, Isopropyl Alcohol, Methylcellulose, Dimethicone Copolyol Phosphate, phosphate Sorbitol, Tetrasodium EDTA, Citric Acid, Diazolidinyl Urea, DMDM Hydantoin, Methylparaben, Propylparaben, cinnamidopropyltrimonium chloride, fragrance, guanine (C1 75170)

Also, can I have cones in both my gel AND my conditioner? I also miss my Redken fresh curls conditioner!
2C normal/high porosity?, medium/coarse texture, lower density
Cleanse: Pura D'Or every week or two, Yes to Cukes
Conditioner: VO5 Kiwi Lime (LOVE!), Tresemme Naturals, YTC
DT: GVP Conditioning Balm w/ coconut oil
LI: a touch of JCTS
Products: my HG is Tresemme Bouncy Curls Defining Gel mixed with a touch of BRHG over a little flax seed gel, SM Souflee/Milk for 2nd day hair, occasionally Bioterra Curling Creme and Gel
Modified CG since November 2012- finally found what works!
Do your dew points and hair properties permit potent humectants? Propylene glycol is a major ingredient. You can use as few or as many cones as you like, different people have different levels of build up - what shampoo works depends on the amount of betaine and your wash technique. Some find polyquat-4 builds up and need sulphates, others do not. A clarify should hit all the hair, a regular wash is usually scalp only.
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect
I have mid to low dews and do really like humectants. Honey is the best thing I've ever done for my hair! I used this Aquage gel for years and years before trying CG and it's the only thing that consistently seemed to work for me. Defined waves, no frizz, if a little bit limper than I like. I am a little concerned about the polyquats, but I only seem to have problems with 7 and 11. I don't think I've used anything else with 4 (other than when I used to use this- but that's when I washed with sulfates). What do you mean by clarify vs regular wash? Are you referring to products or techniques? Is there a way to find higher betaine poos, other than just looking at the order of ingredients?

I was hoping you'd reply, Firefox- I really do appreciate your level of knowledge!
Firefox7275 likes this.
2C normal/high porosity?, medium/coarse texture, lower density
Cleanse: Pura D'Or every week or two, Yes to Cukes
Conditioner: VO5 Kiwi Lime (LOVE!), Tresemme Naturals, YTC
DT: GVP Conditioning Balm w/ coconut oil
LI: a touch of JCTS
Products: my HG is Tresemme Bouncy Curls Defining Gel mixed with a touch of BRHG over a little flax seed gel, SM Souflee/Milk for 2nd day hair, occasionally Bioterra Curling Creme and Gel
Modified CG since November 2012- finally found what works!
Biotera gel has PQ4 as the 2nd ingredient- I see it in your sig. So, if are good with that gel, this one by Aquage should be ok.

Do whatever works for your hair!
curlypearl likes this.
2C/ Coarse/ Normal porosity/ SW Florida/ Salt & Pepper
Cleanse: CJ Daily Fix, JC Cleansing Cream, TJ Tea Tree Condish
Condish: JC Too Shea, CJ Curl Rehab (both as RO & LI)
Stylers: UFD CM, CJ PP, JC Spiralicious, Darcy's Cream Gel & Cocoa bean whip
I didn't even realize that, Chloe...you're absolutely right. That's great news- I really like the bioterra gel occasionally but it doesn't have enough hold. You made my day
2C normal/high porosity?, medium/coarse texture, lower density
Cleanse: Pura D'Or every week or two, Yes to Cukes
Conditioner: VO5 Kiwi Lime (LOVE!), Tresemme Naturals, YTC
DT: GVP Conditioning Balm w/ coconut oil
LI: a touch of JCTS
Products: my HG is Tresemme Bouncy Curls Defining Gel mixed with a touch of BRHG over a little flax seed gel, SM Souflee/Milk for 2nd day hair, occasionally Bioterra Curling Creme and Gel
Modified CG since November 2012- finally found what works!
This summer with the high dews, I've reverted back to cones and sulfates, and I'm satisfied with it for now. It doesn't seem to be harming my hair. I'm also doing an occasional PT and lots of DT.

I am avoiding heat as much as possible - that seems to help also.

Good luck - some people do fine with cones and sulfates.

.
2/c and some 3A. Modified CG.
Protein sensitive
Highly porous. Color over grey.
Best 1st day method: Super Soaker
Conditioners: Curl Junkie Beauticurls Strengthening Conditioner,
Deep condish: Curl Junkie Curl Rehab
Stylers: Mix Curls in a Bottle into everything for shine. Terrible pj
Sometimes try roller sets - classic glamor but I prefer my curls.
Every day is a gift
Thanks, curlypearl- it's nice to hear that I'm not the only one! It feels like such a taboo...lol.
curlypearl likes this.
2C normal/high porosity?, medium/coarse texture, lower density
Cleanse: Pura D'Or every week or two, Yes to Cukes
Conditioner: VO5 Kiwi Lime (LOVE!), Tresemme Naturals, YTC
DT: GVP Conditioning Balm w/ coconut oil
LI: a touch of JCTS
Products: my HG is Tresemme Bouncy Curls Defining Gel mixed with a touch of BRHG over a little flax seed gel, SM Souflee/Milk for 2nd day hair, occasionally Bioterra Curling Creme and Gel
Modified CG since November 2012- finally found what works!
I second what Curlypearl said. I've been modified CG for well over a year now (exactly how modified varies). When I went for my last Deva cut, the stylist raved about how healthy and moisturized my hair was- and that was before I explained that I use occasional silicones and sulfates, so it wasn't like she was saying that my hair was in good condition considering I was using non-CG products, she was saying that my hair was in great shape, period. I've long believed that it isn't the products that accounts for the dramatic changes some people see with CG- it's the awareness and the overall gentle technique that make the biggest difference. If it was all about product, then there wouldn't be so many non-CG people with gorgeous curls, and let's face it, there are plenty of them out there.
curlypearl and Samanthascurlz like this.

3a/f/iii
Modified CG since 11/5/11
CLEANSE: VO5 Vanilla Mint Tea Clarifying, DevaCare No-Poo, CHS Treatment Shampoo
RO: DevaCare One Condition, SS Caitlin's Conditioner, Mop Top Daily Conditioner
LI: SS Repairing Protein Treatment, CHS Silk Leave-In
STYLE: Re:Coil, Curl Keeper, Deva Ultra Defining Gel, Curls Rock Amplifier and Strong Hold Mousse, Sweet Curls Elixirs Okra Gel and Hard Hold Gel, SS Curl Enhancing Jelly and Firm Hold Gel
I believe those cones are water soluble?

Cones: List of water soluble/not

DMDM Hydantoin releases formaldehyde and parabens mimic estrogen if you care about that sort of thing.
2BC/f/II. fine - low/normal porosity - medium density - normal elasticity.

Currently using:
Cowash: Cure Care diluted with water 1:1
RO: Cure Care, V05 Kiwi Lime
Styler: UFD CM (old formula), FSG + CNPF
PT: IAgirl's gelatine

Experimenting with: CeraVe Foaming as low-poo, gelatin gel

light moisture, hydrolized protein, jelly stylers
guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride, sulfates
Neutral on cones.

iherb discount code: CFN646
Mimic estrogen, huh? What does that mean exactly?
2C normal/high porosity?, medium/coarse texture, lower density
Cleanse: Pura D'Or every week or two, Yes to Cukes
Conditioner: VO5 Kiwi Lime (LOVE!), Tresemme Naturals, YTC
DT: GVP Conditioning Balm w/ coconut oil
LI: a touch of JCTS
Products: my HG is Tresemme Bouncy Curls Defining Gel mixed with a touch of BRHG over a little flax seed gel, SM Souflee/Milk for 2nd day hair, occasionally Bioterra Curling Creme and Gel
Modified CG since November 2012- finally found what works!
It's just hair - put on it whatever makes YOU happy
curlypearl likes this.
Salt & pepper wavy mix 2B/2C
Low to normal porosity, coarse, kinky, normal elasticity
Current favorites:
Low poo: Yes To Cukes Color Protection (the no sulfate one)
Conditioners: Renpure MPHIP, CJ Smoothing Lotion, AB LI, CJ Curl Rehab, CJ Argan/Olive, Darcy's Pumpkin
Style: FSG, BRHG
Pre-poo/DT: Conditioner with honey & coconut oil

iHerb discount code: PNQ285
I have mid to low dews and do really like humectants. Honey is the best thing I've ever done for my hair! I used this Aquage gel for years and years before trying CG and it's the only thing that consistently seemed to work for me. Defined waves, no frizz, if a little bit limper than I like. I am a little concerned about the polyquats, but I only seem to have problems with 7 and 11. I don't think I've used anything else with 4 (other than when I used to use this- but that's when I washed with sulfates). What do you mean by clarify vs regular wash? Are you referring to products or techniques? Is there a way to find higher betaine poos, other than just looking at the order of ingredients?

I was hoping you'd reply, Firefox- I really do appreciate your level of knowledge!
Originally Posted by WavyRoo
Aw thanks!

Well that sounds like propylene glycol has a good chance of working for you, I like it in some weathers/ combinations but a disaster in others.

Sorry, technique really: if I clarify I am looking to remove build up, usually from the lengths of my hair so give them a good massage. On a 'normal day' when I wash my hair I am cleaning sebum from my scalp and roots, don't really wash my lengths - certainly never did when I used shampoo (and had silicone build up ha ha!).

Just look at the ingredients list and order for shampoos, I don't think the amount of betaine in, say, a cleansing conditioner would be enough to shift certain silicones or polyquats, ideally have the betaine as the first ingredient after water for your clarifying product. But experiment with what you have at home, if your hair doesn't feel right/ like build up you can always purchase another shampoo or nick a sulphate shampoo from someone else in your household.

Using sulphates occasionally might give you unmanageable hair for a week - or it might give you great build up free hair - but it won't cause permanent damage. I avoid them like the plague but that is because I have sensitive eczematous skin and porous colour treated hair.
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect
Sometimes, I consider rotating a few silicone products in my regimen because these non-silicone products tend to be expensive.
High Porosity, Fine, Thin Density, Low Elasticity
Co-wash, leave in, and gel: Alba botanica coconut cond., ogx mousse, &/or super wet look gel.
Curls
There are definitely some good less expensive silicone-free products out there. There are a few threads floating around for budget-friendly CG products. My issue with most of the CG-friendly drugstore products I find is that I can't necessarily get the ingredients that I look for in a single product and I need to layer, mix, or otherwise alter many products to suit my preferences (in all fairness, I have found a few that I really like). But I find the same is true with non-CG products. Most of the drugstore brands that I've tried didn't really impress me. The handful of non-CG products that I use on a regular basis were still all salon brands anyway. And not for lack of trying, since I'm a horrible product junkie at heart.

3a/f/iii
Modified CG since 11/5/11
CLEANSE: VO5 Vanilla Mint Tea Clarifying, DevaCare No-Poo, CHS Treatment Shampoo
RO: DevaCare One Condition, SS Caitlin's Conditioner, Mop Top Daily Conditioner
LI: SS Repairing Protein Treatment, CHS Silk Leave-In
STYLE: Re:Coil, Curl Keeper, Deva Ultra Defining Gel, Curls Rock Amplifier and Strong Hold Mousse, Sweet Curls Elixirs Okra Gel and Hard Hold Gel, SS Curl Enhancing Jelly and Firm Hold Gel
There are definitely some good less expensive silicone-free products out there. There are a few threads floating around for budget-friendly CG products. My issue with most of the CG-friendly drugstore products I find is that I can't necessarily get the ingredients that I look for in a single product and I need to layer, mix, or otherwise alter many products to suit my preferences (in all fairness, I have found a few that I really like). But I find the same is true with non-CG products. Most of the drugstore brands that I've tried didn't really impress me. The handful of non-CG products that I use on a regular basis were still all salon brands anyway. And not for lack of trying, since I'm a horrible product junkie at heart.
Originally Posted by Corrina777
No, I know, I actually use a lot of the budget friendly CG products. Except of course my KCCC which I still regret paying all that money for...lol. There are parts of me that see some cheaper silicone based products and I feel temped, after being silicone free for over a year, but like you just said, if they aren't impressive (silicone products), then it is back to square one. I think I am going to stick to where I am at- but keep my products under $10. But like you also said, I can be a PJ at heart at times...
High Porosity, Fine, Thin Density, Low Elasticity
Co-wash, leave in, and gel: Alba botanica coconut cond., ogx mousse, &/or super wet look gel.
Curls
If they work for you, then why not? Cones aren't the devil, at least for everyone. I've seen a lot of people go off them because they feel like they have to, and then be really unhappy with their hair. Some people do really well with cones. Same debate/struggle in the longhair community, too. I really don't think any ingredient should be vilified, because even if 99% of people don't do well with it, there's always going to be that 1% with amazing hair who do (or do in spite of it, lol). When I was growing my hair out I always wished cones would work for me because they would have made things a lot easier, but never happened. I kept trying, though. I don't learn from my mistakes, haha.
3a/b, F, normal porosity

Wash with either Suave Tropical Coconut, As I Am, or CJ Daily Fix
Condition with STC or Yes to Blueberries and detangle with Denman, rinse very lightly (baptismal rinse)
Add LAL gel, either Sport or Wet Look, scrunch with flour sack towel, and plop
Diffuse 5 minutes, then air dry
If they work for you, then why not? Cones aren't the devil, at least for everyone. I've seen a lot of people go off them because they feel like they have to, and then be really unhappy with their hair. Some people do really well with cones. Same debate/struggle in the longhair community, too. I really don't think any ingredient should be vilified, because even if 99% of people don't do well with it, there's always going to be that 1% with amazing hair who do (or do in spite of it, lol). When I was growing my hair out I always wished cones would work for me because they would have made things a lot easier, but never happened. I kept trying, though. I don't learn from my mistakes, haha.
Originally Posted by CurlyInTheFog
Very true. Like Corinna777 stated, there are curlies who don't do the CG method, but still have beautiful hair. It definitely depends on how your hair responds. For example, I met this girl who had gorgeous curly hair. I asked if she did the CG method and she had no idea what it was.
High Porosity, Fine, Thin Density, Low Elasticity
Co-wash, leave in, and gel: Alba botanica coconut cond., ogx mousse, &/or super wet look gel.
Curls
Mimic estrogen, huh? What does that mean exactly?
Originally Posted by WavyRoo
Parabens (Propyl, Isopropyl, Butyl, and Isobutylparabens): Parabens are estrogen-mimicking preservatives, found in breast cancer tumors of 19 of 20 women studied. The CDC has detected parabens in virtually all Americans surveyed. According to the European Commission’s Scientific Committee on Consumer Products, longer chain parabens like propyl and butyl paraben and their branched counterparts, isopropyl and isobutylparabens, may disrupt the endocrine system and cause reproductive and developmental disorders.

Top tips for safer products | Skin Deep® Cosmetics Database | Environmental Working Group
2BC/f/II. fine - low/normal porosity - medium density - normal elasticity.

Currently using:
Cowash: Cure Care diluted with water 1:1
RO: Cure Care, V05 Kiwi Lime
Styler: UFD CM (old formula), FSG + CNPF
PT: IAgirl's gelatine

Experimenting with: CeraVe Foaming as low-poo, gelatin gel

light moisture, hydrolized protein, jelly stylers
guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride, sulfates
Neutral on cones.

iherb discount code: CFN646
Re: cones... honestly if you have a low-poo w/ cocamidopropyl betaine or coco betaine that can dissolve cones yet is still gentle, I don't see why you can't use cones. I understand some people want to go the no-poo route, in which case they need to avoid cones as well... if you're using a cone-dissolving low-poo anyway there's no need to unnecessarily fear the cones. I like my Giovanni TTTT (non-stripping and does have c. betaine) so lately I've been thinking of re-incoroporating cones, but I haven't because I am mostly happy with my cone-less products.
curlypearl likes this.
2BC/f/II. fine - low/normal porosity - medium density - normal elasticity.

Currently using:
Cowash: Cure Care diluted with water 1:1
RO: Cure Care, V05 Kiwi Lime
Styler: UFD CM (old formula), FSG + CNPF
PT: IAgirl's gelatine

Experimenting with: CeraVe Foaming as low-poo, gelatin gel

light moisture, hydrolized protein, jelly stylers
guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride, sulfates
Neutral on cones.

iherb discount code: CFN646
What I find with cones is that I get temporary relief from them - and then I get the "bill". More bad hair.

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