tangled

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  • 1 Post By Aqua_Lily
  • 1 Post By bliss611

I need some help.

I have 3b curls, a little longer than shoulder length, medium porosity, normal - not coarse or fine. I have an oily scalp, dry ends. I treat my hair very well. NO heat at all. I've been modified CG for two years (minus one eve of silicone gel for a special event). I have a system for protein/moisture balance and my hair is overall healthy.

My problem is tangles. If I "wash" my hair in the morning, it's practically a bird's nest by evening. I've tried oils, and leave ins. Nothing works. My hair behaves better for a few weeks after a trim but that's it. So, dry ends cause tangles but I am in an awful cycle of tangles cause dryness/damage and and the dryness/damage causes more tangles.

And I want longer hair and not constant trims.

HELP Please!
TIA!!
Do you detangle properly during washing?

I recommend sleeping on a silk pillowcase. I also recommend to rinse your hair with icy cold water after showering. Cold water closes the cuticle which might decrease amount of tangles (people with low porosity hair usually have far less tangles than people with high porosity hair).
NyanCatMeow likes this.

Current length: tailbone
Goal length: mid-thigh (wet)
3A/2C M iii med por, high elast

HGs:
Clarify: Nivea
Lo-poo: Nature's Gate
CW: Elvive Volume Collagen
RO: EO Keratin, Desert Essence Raspberry

LI: Elvive volume collagen, KCKT
Seal: Grapeseed oil
Gel: Studioline

PT: EO Keratin co
DT: RO+oils
Hairgrowth stim.: JBCO+EVCO


www.iherb.com 5-10$ discount code:
VHT541 Many natural hair products!
Do you have any sense that your hair is breaking, or that you have split ends or knots? My hair tends to tangle more when I do. I've addressed that by getting a decent pair of hair shears at Sally Beauty, and trimming any knots and split ends I find. When they're trimmed promptly, they seem less likely to draw other hair into a tangle. This helps me to go quite a bit longer between haircuts.
Peace,
Morgan

Baby Fine 3B, low porosity, normal density and elasticity
CGing since July 2008
A denman brush works great for detangling my hair when it is slathered in conditioner.
I need some help.

I have 3b curls, a little longer than shoulder length, medium porosity, normal - not coarse or fine. I have an oily scalp, dry ends. I treat my hair very well. NO heat at all. I've been modified CG for two years (minus one eve of silicone gel for a special event). I have a system for protein/moisture balance and my hair is overall healthy.

My problem is tangles. If I "wash" my hair in the morning, it's practically a bird's nest by evening. I've tried oils, and leave ins. Nothing works. My hair behaves better for a few weeks after a trim but that's it. So, dry ends cause tangles but I am in an awful cycle of tangles cause dryness/damage and and the dryness/damage causes more tangles.

And I want longer hair and not constant trims.

HELP Please!
TIA!!
Originally Posted by bliss611
It sounds like either you may have some sort of build up (hard water? products - polyquats, butters, waxes like cetyl esters?) or you don't have the protein-moisture balance right. When was the last time you did a chelating wash?

By modified do you mean you use a sulphate free shampoo? If so is that truly gentle, ie. free of all anionic surfactants and pH 4.5 to 5.5? Have you tried alternating with conditioner only washing?

What ingredients are you using specifically to patch repair your dry and damaged ends? What ingredients have you selected specifically to aid detangling? Not everyone does well with oils or proteins straight up, oftentimes they do better with them as ingredients.

Are you finger detangling very patiently in the shower only, are you using a silk or satin pillowcase or sleep cap? Are you protecting the ends during the day from rubbing on clothing, chair, car headrest, purse strap?
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect
Thanks everyone!

Aqua Lily – I do detangle fully in the shower with lots of conditioner. But I do have to be more diligent about sleeping with the cap on. My hair can be porous at times and I usually bump up protein at that point (with DC after). Using Colorful Neutral Protein filler.

Morgan – YES – I get split ends but I think they appear after the tangles because of the difficulty have detangling unless I am soaking my hair everyday. Which is a pain because it takes forever to dry. Not sure about knots… will pay attention to that more.

FireFox – I hadn’t considered buildup at all. I should clarify and see if it helps. Just looked up chelating and will do one soon. As of now I “wash” every other day and alternate between co-washing and lo-poo’ing. So I technically lo-poo every four days. I am currently using Avalon Organics Lemon clarifying shampoo (Ingredients below) – I need something fairly strong because I have a greasy scalp.

DermOrganic conditioning masque is my protein conditioner. Juice Organics pomsmooth or Giovanni Smooth as Silk are my moisture conditioners. DC – Aubrey Organics Honeysuckle Rose.


Avalon Lemon shampoo
Aloe barbadensis leaf juice(1), aqua (water), decyl glucoside, sodium coco-sulfate, coco-glucoside, sorbitol, babassu oil polyglyceryl-4 esters, xanthan gum, calendula officinalis flower extract(1), chamomilla recutita (matricaria) flower extract(1), citrus limon (lemon) peel extract(1), styrax benzoin resin extract, cedrus atlantica bark oil, citrus aurantifolia (lime) oil, citrus aurantium dulcis (orange) peel oil, citrus limon (lemon) peel oil, citrus grandis (grapefruit) peel oil, litsea cubeba fruit oil, bisabolol, citric acid, hydrolyzed wheat protein, inulin(1), sodium sulfate, tocopheryl acetate, alcohol(1), benzyl alcohol, potassium sorbate, sodium benzoate, citral, limonene, linalool.
3B curls
Medium texture
Normal elasticity
High porosity
Thanks everyone!

Aqua Lily – I do detangle fully in the shower with lots of conditioner. But I do have to be more diligent about sleeping with the cap on. My hair can be porous at times and I usually bump up protein at that point (with DC after). Using Colorful Neutral Protein filler.

Morgan – YES – I get split ends but I think they appear after the tangles because of the difficulty have detangling unless I am soaking my hair everyday. Which is a pain because it takes forever to dry. Not sure about knots… will pay attention to that more.

FireFox – I hadn’t considered buildup at all. I should clarify and see if it helps. Just looked up chelating and will do one soon. As of now I “wash” every other day and alternate between co-washing and lo-poo’ing. So I technically lo-poo every four days. I am currently using Avalon Organics Lemon clarifying shampoo (Ingredients below) – I need something fairly strong because I have a greasy scalp.

DermOrganic conditioning masque is my protein conditioner. Juice Organics pomsmooth or Giovanni Smooth as Silk are my moisture conditioners. DC – Aubrey Organics Honeysuckle Rose.


Avalon Lemon shampoo
Aloe barbadensis leaf juice(1), aqua (water), decyl glucoside, sodium coco-sulfate, coco-glucoside, sorbitol, babassu oil polyglyceryl-4 esters, xanthan gum, calendula officinalis flower extract(1), chamomilla recutita (matricaria) flower extract(1), citrus limon (lemon) peel extract(1), styrax benzoin resin extract, cedrus atlantica bark oil, citrus aurantifolia (lime) oil, citrus aurantium dulcis (orange) peel oil, citrus limon (lemon) peel oil, citrus grandis (grapefruit) peel oil, litsea cubeba fruit oil, bisabolol, citric acid, hydrolyzed wheat protein, inulin(1), sodium sulfate, tocopheryl acetate, alcohol(1), benzyl alcohol, potassium sorbate, sodium benzoate, citral, limonene, linalool.
Originally Posted by bliss611
That shampoo contains a sulphate, it can strip the scalp causing it to produce more sebum and also damage the hair, especially if you use it daily on porous hair. Done well conditioner washing or a sulphate free shampoo should get your hair clean - I can remove a heavy coconut oiling.
An Indepth Look at Porosity | Curly Nikki | Natural Hair Styles and Natural Hair Care

If your hair is porous try coconut oil soaks on dry hair, that can aid detangling, reduce porosity and increase elasticity over time. Check your 'moisture' conditioners for major humectants and consider your dew points/ humidity. Porous hair and high dews can mean hair swells which can increase tangling, humectants amplify this. Porous hair often does not need more moisture since it already takes up too much water during washing which causes damage, it needs less water or a balance.

That Aubrey Organics is not a deep conditioner it's a regular one and it contains various humectants so could be described as 'moisturising'. I can't see any protein in the Dermorganic, only amino acids which are the building blocks of protein way down the list - I would describe that as a deep conditioner not a protein treatment. What happens if you drop the three 'moisturising' conditioners entirely?

Ingredients beneficial for damaged and porous hair include any oil rich in oleic or lauric acid, hydrolysed protein, ceramides, 18-MEA and panthenol. Given you are using a harsh shampoo on a daily basis I'd encourage you to use as many of these as possible.
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect
I highly recommend not detangling unless you have conditioner in your hair at the time you're actually detangling it. It can be highly damaging to do it without the conditioner.
Peace,
Morgan

Baby Fine 3B, low porosity, normal density and elasticity
CGing since July 2008
I use the shampoo every four days or so not every day. But I think I'll switch back to the Shea Moisture Moisture Retention poo. It caused some buildup but ACV rinse takes care of that.

Thanks for all the ingredient info FireFox. Will check all my products for humectants.
Firefox7275 likes this.
3B curls
Medium texture
Normal elasticity
High porosity
I do have one question - Firefox.

I know you recommended less moisturizing. But my hair feels very dry. It's parched. So with porous hair, PTs and oiling will help with that as well?
3B curls
Medium texture
Normal elasticity
High porosity
I do have one question - Firefox.

I know you recommended less moisturizing. But my hair feels very dry. It's parched. So with porous hair, PTs and oiling will help with that as well?
Originally Posted by bliss611
Feeling dehydrated/ dry is not necessarily the same thing as being dehydrated/ dry: what we feel can be product or mineral build up, damaged or raised cuticle, lack of elasticity, not properly conditioned ... as well as possibly too little or even too much water.

My hair felt a little rough and 'dry' a couple of weeks ago, except it felt that way even when dripping wet so obviously my hair was not lacking water! In my case I suspected the cause, I had gone nuts on protein and had build up. My hair felt less 'dry' after shampooing and a dilute vinegar rinse to help the cuticle lay flat, yet I had not used any moisturisers or conditioners whatsoever (wanted clean dry hair for an oil treatment).

Porous hair tends to take up far too much water and then quickly loses it again, that stretch and shrink is damaging to hair (hygral fatigue). The combination of hydrolysed protein and coconut oil is the closest to putting the cortex back where it should be. Ingredients like ceramides, pathenol, 18-MEA, hydrolysed protein, together help mimic a healthy cuticle.

Your standard conditioning agents/ emollients - fatty alcohols and cationic surfactants are weak humectants, as is protein and panthenol - so you aren't taking all humectants (moisturisers) out of the routine, just the ones that are overly hygroscopic (attract a lot of water).

With a combination of proven ingredients the hair can move back towards holding the right amount of water, not absorbing too much and not losing it again super fast. It should feel softer, smoother, more flexible, less brittle, less tangly - when some describe their hair as feeling more moisturised they actually mean better conditioned.

"High porosity is an unfortunate result of damage to the hair. Chemical processes, harsh treatment, and environmental exposure are all responsible for causing cumulative, irreversible damage to the cuticle layer. This damage creates gaps and holes in the surface of the hair shaft—essentially chinks in its armor. Hair with this type of uneven, pitted and rough surface is prone to damage from more and more sources, resulting in a cascade of effects that culminate in unmanageable and unlovely locks.

Hair with a great deal of porosity has been found to be capable of absorbing significantly higher amounts of water than hair or normal or low porosity (up to 55%, in contrast with 31.1% for healthy hair). Excessive absorption of water from the atmosphere causes frizz and tangling on humid days. Total immersion of high porosity hair during bathing, swimming, or shampooing can lead to significant breakage due to loss of elasticity from the sheer weight of the water absorbed
."
Porosity and Curly Hair
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect

Last edited by Firefox7275; 08-22-2013 at 06:32 PM.

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