Be careful about mega doses of Biotin, any supplements

Like Tree30Likes

Oh look at us girls tripping all over ourselves to apologize merely for discussing things casually and in earnest.

Gotta stop myself sometimes, eh?
Originally Posted by dusalocks
OK, fine, just for you then:
And:

One thing that doesn't really make sense to me about biotin supplementation in particular is that the daily recommended amount is really low, and biotin is in so many foods, so really very easily obtainable that way. Even a fairly low level of supplementation is way more than what's recommended, so the likelihood of your body utilizing that much is minimal. Essentially, you're literally just pissing money away.
wavydaze likes this.
3a/b, F, normal porosity

Wash with either Suave Tropical Coconut, As I Am, or CJ Daily Fix
Condition with STC or Yes to Blueberries and detangle with Denman, rinse very lightly (baptismal rinse)
Add LAL gel, either Sport or Wet Look, scrunch with flour sack towel, and plop
Diffuse 5 minutes, then air dry
Lol, after discussing all of the supplements that I take daily, my Dr. said that North America has the most expensive urine in the world. I still take the supplements anyways.
Upper Michigan Dews
3a ~ Fine ~ High Porosity ~ Normal Density

NoPoo: JC Cleansing Cream
Rinse Outs: SS:PRT, CJ Repair Me, CJ Argan
Detangler: KCKT
Leave-in: CJ Repair me
Stylers: UFDCM, BRHG
Refreshers: Batiste (dry shampoo) on the roots & UFDCM everywhere else

iHerb Discount Code: SAF007

I have many doctors in my family, and doctors don't know everything and they do make mistakes. Sometimes they insist something is true because that is what they believe they see, even when what they believe isn't what they're seeing at all. Just like regular people. And sometimes google is pretty useful, if you know how to sort out the BS.
Originally Posted by CurlyInTheFog

Of course doctors don't know everything & can make mistakes. They're highly trained health professionals.... not knowers of the universe! But it still doesn't make sense to wave off all doctors' opinions because they're they don't diddly squat about nutrition... which is the gist I've gotten from a few responses. They're still highly trained at the end of the day, and so better at gaging what may or may not be healthy. If they're good doctors they're also keeping up with current research on nutrition. I have doctors in my family too, and one of the things they constantly gripe about is proper lifestyle and nutrition. They always complain when their patients don't take their lifestyle/nutrition advice seriously. And anyway, MD's are still qualified to sift through the abundant information that is available online, some of which can be questionable. If you find some really compelling research, you could even bring it in to your next visit; have your doctor take a look at it. They'll be at least able to tell you whether it's legitimate research, or as you say "sort out the BS."

I know more about proper nutrition in pets, but the general principle is the same--nutrition is always better in whole food form. Trying to recreate real food through the use of supplements (or manufactured diets) never comes close to the real deal.
Originally Posted by CurlyInTheFog
Yes, this is what my doc says too!
Originally Posted by wavydaze
Oops, I think I left a line out. I meant to say that while doctors are of course fallible, being human (and I've seen it), they still have much more training than the layman does. I see so many doctor conspiracy theories, and I don't get that at all. We've had some significant emergencies in my family, and believe me, you don't doubt the doctor then! I do think that if you need to make significant dietary changes, consulting with a nutritionist is a good idea rather than a regular doctor.
Originally Posted by CurlyInTheFog
Doctors are great for emergency medicine but few are good with nutritional issues that can be caused by chronic/long term conditions.

Sorry but I'm not the only who has found this out the hard way. Luckily there are other professionals around who have a clue about these deficiencies.

One thing that doesn't really make sense to me about biotin supplementation in particular is that the daily recommended amount is really low, and biotin is in so many foods, so really very easily obtainable that way. Even a fairly low level of supplementation is way more than what's recommended, so the likelihood of your body utilizing that much is minimal. Essentially, you're literally just pissing money away.
Originally Posted by CurlyInTheFog
You said what I was trying to say about water soluble vitamins straight.


Of course doctors don't know everything & can make mistakes. They're highly trained health professionals.... not knowers of the universe! But it still doesn't make sense to wave off all doctors' opinions because they're they don't diddly squat about nutrition... which is the gist I've gotten from a few responses. They're still highly trained at the end of the day, and so better at gaging what may or may not be healthy. If they're good doctors they're also keeping up with current research on nutrition. I have doctors in my family too, and one of the things they constantly gripe about is proper lifestyle and nutrition. They always complain when their patients don't take their lifestyle/nutrition advice seriously. And anyway, MD's are still qualified to sift through the abundant information that is available online, some of which can be questionable. If you find some really compelling research, you could even bring it in to your next visit; have your doctor take a look at it. They'll be at least able to tell you whether it's legitimate research, or as you say "sort out the BS."



Yes, this is what my doc says too!
Originally Posted by wavydaze
Oops, I think I left a line out. I meant to say that while doctors are of course fallible, being human (and I've seen it), they still have much more training than the layman does. I see so many doctor conspiracy theories, and I don't get that at all. We've had some significant emergencies in my family, and believe me, you don't doubt the doctor then! I do think that if you need to make significant dietary changes, consulting with a nutritionist is a good idea rather than a regular doctor.
Originally Posted by CurlyInTheFog
Doctors are great for emergency medicine but few are good with nutritional issues that can be caused by chronic/long term conditions.

Sorry but I'm not the only who has found this out the hard way. Luckily there are other professionals around who have a clue about these deficiencies.
Originally Posted by Blueblood
I think some doctors are much better at nutritional issues than others. The best doctor, IMO, is one who recognizes their limits and refers out when appropriate. But I agree that it's important to be your own advocate, because you can't always count on the professionals to do it for you.

A relative of mine, a retired pathologist, nearly died before his celiac disease was diagnosed--not by his cardiologist son, nor his pediatrician son, nor his oncologist son, but by his dentist daughter (who was not "smart" enough to get into med school) and Dr. Google. There was more than a bit of ego involved there, but still. What I meant by doctor conspiracy theories was not that all doctors are perfect, but that I equally don't think they're all out to screw us and in league with the feds or pharmacological companies. I think some doctors are really good, and some are real boobs. Most fall somewhere in between.
3a/b, F, normal porosity

Wash with either Suave Tropical Coconut, As I Am, or CJ Daily Fix
Condition with STC or Yes to Blueberries and detangle with Denman, rinse very lightly (baptismal rinse)
Add LAL gel, either Sport or Wet Look, scrunch with flour sack towel, and plop
Diffuse 5 minutes, then air dry
It's not a sports nutritionist you would want to consult unless you are a sportsperson or very serious exerciser, health is considered the opposite end of the spectrum to sports and much of the stuff studied at degree level is quite different. Fundamentally training intensively for sport is not that healthy, the risk of overuse injury, overtraining and suchlike is high and it massively changes your nutritional needs. You'd want to consult a registered dietician or someone working in other aspects of lifestyle healthcare (there are many different titles within that, the UK ones are likely different to the US ones) and qualified at degree level or above.

Those working in the community don't automatically see healthy people and doctors see sick people, the world is not such a black and white place. In fact UK research suggests 80% of people joining a gym have some sort of health issue that means they don't class as 'apparently healthy'. In practice (I have worked in hospital, community healthcare and the fitness industry) I have seen that to be true, a great shock to me in my first year. A huge amount of people are eating an imbalanced diet, be that accidentally (not as healthy as they claim) or a badly planned version of a commercial weight management diet.

It's not as simple as there being 'safe' megadoses because that doesn't translate to everyone, nor that megadosing just makes for expensive urine, it does not. That takes no account of the individual's diet, health status, prescription meds (includes birth control), exercise regime/ lifestyle physical activity, other supplements and so on. We are trained that a supplement regime should be personalised and that real wholefoods trumps supplements every time. The fact that some people get acne from biotin megadosing should be a red flag, side effects are clear evidence that the body is being negatively affected.

Igors bell tower: The (in)famous biotin rant
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect
I just threw in the bit about expensive urine to point out that megadosing makes no financial sense either--why pay for something you're just wasting? Might as well take out most of the pills in the bottle and throw them away. You know I'm on the same page with you about food!

ETA: I think the argument against biotin is somewhat of a wasted effort, because people are going to megadose regardless, at least until they have a negative effect from it. It's worth making because it may give some people pause, but I'm not holding my breath. The desire for a quick, easy fix is very strong, and the "It won't hurt you because it's water soluble and you'll just pee it out" concept is so ingrained that it's not difficult to just ignore possible health ramifications.
Firefox7275 likes this.
3a/b, F, normal porosity

Wash with either Suave Tropical Coconut, As I Am, or CJ Daily Fix
Condition with STC or Yes to Blueberries and detangle with Denman, rinse very lightly (baptismal rinse)
Add LAL gel, either Sport or Wet Look, scrunch with flour sack towel, and plop
Diffuse 5 minutes, then air dry

Last edited by CurlyInTheFog; 08-14-2013 at 04:32 PM.
I just threw in the bit about expensive urine to point out that megadosing makes no financial sense either--why pay for something you're just wasting? Might as well take out most of the pills in the bottle and throw them away. You know I'm on the same page with you about food!

ETA: I think the argument against biotin is somewhat of a wasted effort, because people are going to megadose regardless, at least until they have a negative effect from it. It's worth making because it may give some people pause, but I'm not holding my breath. The desire for a quick, easy fix is very strong, and the "It won't hurt you because it's water soluble and you'll just pee it out" concept is so ingrained that it's not difficult to just ignore possible health ramifications.
Originally Posted by CurlyInTheFog
I'm under no illusions people will take their blinkers off or take their head out of the sand in their droves ... any more than anything else I say with a science angle is widely well received. But if even one person thinks twice that is a win for me. I won't stop caring and I don't believe you will either.

I've just remembered the regular on LHC (Jojo the nurse?) who damaged her kidneys with megadosing, wasn't that biotin?
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect
Yes, it was biotin, and I think it was Jojo. I'll see if I can find the link in the morning (it's almost 1 a.m. here). I believe with her the problem was that she had a kidney issue she didn't know about, and all the extra biotin that needed to be flushed out sent her into actual kidney failure. I know you know this, but I'll state it for the choir anyway: just because a vitamin is water soluble and will be passed in the urine, doesn't mean it's a good thing. Your kidneys have to process it all. If your kidneys are healthy, then maybe it's not such a big deal. If your kidneys aren't so good, and you don't know it, then maybe you end up in the hospital. Is it worth it to megadose yourself with something that almost no one needs to supplement?
Firefox7275 likes this.
3a/b, F, normal porosity

Wash with either Suave Tropical Coconut, As I Am, or CJ Daily Fix
Condition with STC or Yes to Blueberries and detangle with Denman, rinse very lightly (baptismal rinse)
Add LAL gel, either Sport or Wet Look, scrunch with flour sack towel, and plop
Diffuse 5 minutes, then air dry
It's not a sports nutritionist you would want to consult unless you are a sportsperson or very serious exerciser, health is considered the opposite end of the spectrum to sports and much of the stuff studied at degree level is quite different. Fundamentally training intensively for sport is not that healthy, the risk of overuse injury, overtraining and suchlike is high and it massively changes your nutritional needs. You'd want to consult a registered dietician or someone working in other aspects of lifestyle healthcare (there are many different titles within that, the UK ones are likely different to the US ones) and qualified at degree level or above.
Originally Posted by Firefox7275
Actually the dieticians, physios and podiatrists I know deal with people privately. They either deal with both sports people (participating in certain sports) and normal people, or normal people and sick people.

This is due to the fact its difficult to earn enough income from seeing one group of people.

The most bunk I heard about nutrition and exercise was from a friend who had been to a nutritionist.

For those who don't know anyone in the UK can call themselves a nutritionist but a dietician is legally regulated.
It's not a sports nutritionist you would want to consult unless you are a sportsperson or very serious exerciser, health is considered the opposite end of the spectrum to sports and much of the stuff studied at degree level is quite different. Fundamentally training intensively for sport is not that healthy, the risk of overuse injury, overtraining and suchlike is high and it massively changes your nutritional needs. You'd want to consult a registered dietician or someone working in other aspects of lifestyle healthcare (there are many different titles within that, the UK ones are likely different to the US ones) and qualified at degree level or above.
Originally Posted by Firefox7275
Actually the dieticians, physios and podiatrists I know deal with people privately. They either deal with both sports people (participating in certain sports) and normal people, or normal people and sick people.

This is due to the fact its difficult to earn enough income from seeing one group of people.

The most bunk I heard about nutrition and exercise was from a friend who had been to a nutritionist.

For those who don't know anyone in the UK can call themselves a nutritionist but a dietician is legally regulated.
Originally Posted by Blueblood
You've confused me, what are you correcting? I am well aware registered dieticians also address sports nutrition, but a sports nutritionist is not best qualified to deal with health patients. I am also aware of the current changes afoot in regulation of 'nutritionist' - long overdue - which is why I specified degree level qualifications.
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect
A relative of mine, a retired pathologist, nearly died before his celiac disease was diagnosed--not by his cardiologist son, nor his pediatrician son, nor his oncologist son, but by his dentist daughter (who was not "smart" enough to get into med school) and Dr. Google. There was more than a bit of ego involved there, but still. What I meant by doctor conspiracy theories was not that all doctors are perfect, but that I equally don't think they're all out to screw us and in league with the feds or pharmacological companies. I think some doctors are really good, and some are real boobs. Most fall somewhere in between.
in line with this comment, I want to add my meagre .02.

All doctors are graduates of medical school. I think we can all agree on that.

However, some graduate at the top of the class and some graduate at the bottom of the class. The don't display their ranking on that certificate on the wall.

That means some doctors are excellent, interested and highly motivated to keep up with the latest information on a wide variety of topics related to the health and well being of their patients. Hoo-ray if you get one of these!

On the other hand, the docs who graduate at the bottom of the heap, maybe barely squeeking by, riding on connections coattails to pass or due to lack of interest in helping people but willing and ready to take a minimum patient load just to collect the salary and perks are probably a dime a dozen. Who hasn't heard of doctors who are always "out sick" or "at a conference" only to find out they've been on the golf course or mountain climbing around the world in 80 days. You can never get hold of these ones. I've known of several of this variety. Some even go into medical school because of 'family expectations' and not because they really want to. Have to raise and keep the family pride and status right? So Boo-hoo if you have one of these.

I think if you can get a middle of the road doctor and are willing to work with them as your own advocate, between the two of you, you should be able to come up with some pretty solidly researched information in order to agree on an informed healthcare plan for yourself. I try to do this and have been pretty happy with the results my non-stellar but really pretty good GP and I have been able to accomplish. I'm reversing adrenal fatigue and some thyroid issues with judiciously applied supplementation and the knowledge of when to rev up the program or to scale it back. Its a see-saw effort and its working for me.

ok, I realize my .02 is not so meagre but there it is.
shoulder length inverted bob; fine; 3A-3B; med-thick density; normal porosity; normal elasticity- my hair loves keratin, ACV, silk protein ,Curlkeeper and AG:Recoil ; seems to hate moisturizing products and oils except mineral oil; CG- Jan/'09-mod CG Sept/'09;CG again Jan/'10/mod CG from Mar'10

receive $10 off 1st order of $40 & up, or $5 off on smaller orders, when using iHERB code: GIK909
Well, in this case, they're all far from bottom of the heap. My uncle graduated from Cornell med school (and has a PhD on top of the MD), the oncologist is a researcher at the Mayo clinic, etc. They are all respected in their fields. But doctors are human, and humans can let ego, bias, and so on get in the way at times. I think sometimes it's better to have a less-than-stellar doctor who's willing to research and work with you, than to have one who believes that their way is the only way.
3a/b, F, normal porosity

Wash with either Suave Tropical Coconut, As I Am, or CJ Daily Fix
Condition with STC or Yes to Blueberries and detangle with Denman, rinse very lightly (baptismal rinse)
Add LAL gel, either Sport or Wet Look, scrunch with flour sack towel, and plop
Diffuse 5 minutes, then air dry
You definitely have to know what you are doing. Too much of anything isnt good.
Unfortunately, most drs actually know very little about vitamins/minerals. They simply arent taught it in med school. And most of the testing for vitamin/minerals is highly inadequate and at times an inaccurate depiction of what's really going on in the body.
Originally Posted by crimsonshedemon
Thankfully we can find a lot of great info online if you know where to look.
Originally Posted by crimsonshedemon
I fundamentally disagree. I don't know why I would trust Dr. Google over someone who actually attended med school, residency and has years of experience practicing medicine, and who is also keeping up with the latest medical research. Yes, there are data gaps concerning vitamins, but if doctors and researchers don't know about the safety of certain things like high potency vitamins... why would someone else online (could be anyone) know better than MDs?


Originally Posted by wavydaze
Let's clarify something. I did not say anything about high potency vitamins! I said too much of anything is not good.

Who said anything about Dr Google? There are plenty of research sites, studies online, doctor ran website, forums where drs answer questions, etc. Plenty of places to find legitimate research.
Until you have lost control of your health and have not improved despite modern medicine, then you will understand that MDs are not the all knowing gods that most portray them to be and are woefully uneducated when it comes to chronic conditions.
Most modern research is all about drugs and this research is coming from the makers of such drugs.
Drs simply dont have time to keep up with everything so it's wise to do your own research and seek out professionals who are educated in the area.
Actually, if you're a competent researcher, Dr. Google (I think I used that phrase) isn't too bad. I've diagnosed a few things in consultation with Dr Google--including one issue that resulted in emergency surgery for my son, which would not have happened if I hadn't put two and two together, then went online to check, because his symptoms were atypical. I've also done a fair amount of veterinary research (that would be Dr. Google DVM, lol). You have to know what you're looking at.

Doctors are not infallable. Doctors also are under a lot of stress and pressure, and to some extent have to rely on what their patients tell them. Most doctors are not well versed in rare disorders, either, and while chances are you aren't going to be diagnosed with a rare disorder, it's really going to suck if you have one and your doctor doesn't refer you out. I know someone who almost died because his disorder is extremely rare and his local doctor blew him off. He survived because he was fortunate enough to be seen at Mayo. There is nothing wrong with arming yourself with information so that you can have an intelligent conversation with your doctor, nor is there anything wrong with researching so that you can question your doctor if necessary.
3a/b, F, normal porosity

Wash with either Suave Tropical Coconut, As I Am, or CJ Daily Fix
Condition with STC or Yes to Blueberries and detangle with Denman, rinse very lightly (baptismal rinse)
Add LAL gel, either Sport or Wet Look, scrunch with flour sack towel, and plop
Diffuse 5 minutes, then air dry
One should indeed be very careful with vitamin supplements! Last spring I wasn't feeling all that great so I took vitamins (the multi all in one version), not even in a high dose... but after a while I was only feeling worse. No energy, hair loss, bad concentration, tired all the time. My GP did a blood test for everything and it turned out I was suffering from too much vitamin B6 and vitamin D. So, no more supplements for me.
Firefox7275 likes this.
2B/C-3A) fine - low porosity
Routine:
Wash: Daily Fix,SMT, Kesham, Urtekram
RO: Motions CPR Li, Inecto Cocos co, AO GPB, KCTT
acv-rinse, sometimes honey-rinse
LI: coconut oil (winter), CJBC-LI
Styling: AVG, Etos Solid Power Gel, Taft gel, CJPP
, JCCC, BRHG
Plopping~Pixiecurl diffuse~clipping
KrullenWijzer.blogspot.nl
I agree with that, I just saying it is up to the person's own discretion. Sorry for going off on tangent--it's just there's a LOT of gray area that needs to be covered and I always feel the need to concede this or mention that, lest it sound like I'm leaving something out. I just feel like hey, I'm a grown woman, I'm an educated woman, and my health is my own hands. This is who I trust, this is why. I don't doubt your doctor's advice is sound and I think it's great you're exercising caution. It's your body. And I don't mean to dismiss the article outright either. I too have read a lot on the subject. Right now most of the research is saying any megadose of a vitamin is bad for you, with the exception of vitamin D which is all the rage. But like I said, just my POV.
Originally Posted by dusalocks
"Too much vit D over a long perion of time can cause damage to heart, kidneys, bloodvessels. One could experience nausea, sleepiness, less appetite and constipation.
However this occurs very rarely." this is a quote from a Dutch info site about vitamines and minerals. Although overdosing occurs very rarely, I know it does occur! Be sure what vitamins exactly you need before taking any supplements.
2B/C-3A) fine - low porosity
Routine:
Wash: Daily Fix,SMT, Kesham, Urtekram
RO: Motions CPR Li, Inecto Cocos co, AO GPB, KCTT
acv-rinse, sometimes honey-rinse
LI: coconut oil (winter), CJBC-LI
Styling: AVG, Etos Solid Power Gel, Taft gel, CJPP
, JCCC, BRHG
Plopping~Pixiecurl diffuse~clipping
KrullenWijzer.blogspot.nl

Trending Topics


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:55 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2011 NaturallyCurly.com