Losing definition, help?

As of late I've been losing a lot of definition in my curls. They are coming out a lot more puffy and "soft" looking with more fuzzy frizz. Its been this way ever since my mayo conditioning mask and then protein treatment, but also along with several changes in my routine, so I have no clue what's causing this. I feel like the more I learn about my curls the worse it gets :/ my hair is easily weighed down, 3a to 3b but its been so undefined lately its leaning more to 3a :/ I think it's normal porosity and theres not any damage but I do have highlights. What am I doing here thats not working? I feel like every little thing is affecting my hair now whereas before it would barely change. How do I get the definition back in my hair?
Hair Type: 3a/3b, dark brown, blonde highlights, normal - high porosity, fine - medium strands
Low Poo: Live Clean Moisturizing Shampoo (lowpoo)
Condish: Aussie Moist or Tresemee Naturals
Leave In: Giovanni DLI or Garnier Fructis Sleek and Shine LI
Styling: Curls Rock Amplifier, Pantene Curl Defining Mousse (HG)
My hair loves protein!
What was your previous routine and what changes have you made to it?

3a/f/iii
Modified CG since 11/5/11
CLEANSE: VO5 Vanilla Mint Tea Clarifying, DevaCare No-Poo, CHS Treatment Shampoo
RO: DevaCare One Condition, SS Caitlin's Conditioner, Mop Top Daily Conditioner
LI: SS Repairing Protein Treatment, CHS Silk Leave-In
STYLE: Re:Coil, Curl Keeper, Deva Ultra Defining Gel, Curls Rock Amplifier and Strong Hold Mousse, Sweet Curls Elixirs Okra Gel and Hard Hold Gel, SS Curl Enhancing Jelly and Firm Hold Gel
Mine got like that when I was over-conditioned (my brief attempt at co-washing), it righted itself when I went back to using shampoo.
3b in South Australia.
My previous routine was really just Leave in and moroccan oil and mousse..but now that I'm thinking about it ever since I stopped using the moroccan oil this has been happening...could it actually be that one little product making this difference? It has like 5 different silicones in it so I cut it out but I've been using it for years...hmm..also I changed from my Garnier leave in to the Giovanni DLI which has protein in it...could I be applying too much leave in and not enough gel? Or maybe gel just isnt for me and I should go back to mousse? Mousse just never really gave me enough hold though. Ah I'm so confused. I made so many changes at once I can't figure out what it is. I had 2 good hair days with this routine give or take 1 or 2 products but haven't had consistent results and I have no clue what it is now.
Hair Type: 3a/3b, dark brown, blonde highlights, normal - high porosity, fine - medium strands
Low Poo: Live Clean Moisturizing Shampoo (lowpoo)
Condish: Aussie Moist or Tresemee Naturals
Leave In: Giovanni DLI or Garnier Fructis Sleek and Shine LI
Styling: Curls Rock Amplifier, Pantene Curl Defining Mousse (HG)
My hair loves protein!
Mine got like that when I was over-conditioned (my brief attempt at co-washing), it righted itself when I went back to using shampoo.
Originally Posted by Starmie
I low poo as like you said co washing is too much for me. But maybe its the amount of leave in I'm using thats causing this?
Hair Type: 3a/3b, dark brown, blonde highlights, normal - high porosity, fine - medium strands
Low Poo: Live Clean Moisturizing Shampoo (lowpoo)
Condish: Aussie Moist or Tresemee Naturals
Leave In: Giovanni DLI or Garnier Fructis Sleek and Shine LI
Styling: Curls Rock Amplifier, Pantene Curl Defining Mousse (HG)
My hair loves protein!
It sounds like you might need more gel. As far as the MoroccanOil stuff, I say use what works, and don't stress labels like CG, etc. But that's just me. As long as you're low-pooing regularly you shouldn't have any buildup issues. Just make sure to evaluate your hair for dryness, etc to make sure you're still getting enough moisture.

3a/f/iii
Modified CG since 11/5/11
CLEANSE: VO5 Vanilla Mint Tea Clarifying, DevaCare No-Poo, CHS Treatment Shampoo
RO: DevaCare One Condition, SS Caitlin's Conditioner, Mop Top Daily Conditioner
LI: SS Repairing Protein Treatment, CHS Silk Leave-In
STYLE: Re:Coil, Curl Keeper, Deva Ultra Defining Gel, Curls Rock Amplifier and Strong Hold Mousse, Sweet Curls Elixirs Okra Gel and Hard Hold Gel, SS Curl Enhancing Jelly and Firm Hold Gel
Okay I'll write out all the changes I've made in my routine that I can remember:
Before -
Shampoo with regular sulfate or sulfate free shampoo
Condish from above ears down
Brush with regular brush
Wrap hair in t shirt
Smooth on Garnier Leave In
Apply moroccan oil from mid to ends
Scrunch in mousse all over
Pineapple over night
My hair wasnt really great with this routine (lots of frizz) which is why I wanted to change

After (now) - wash with low poo
Condish from above ears down with Aussie Moist
Brush with TangleFix (tangle teezer dupe)
Smooth on Giovanni DLI
(Sometimes) smooth on KY Liquid
Smooth on or scrunch in Curls Rock Amplifier
Smooth and scrunch gel (varies between Equate Sport Gel or Garnier Pure Clean)
Im experimenting with different drying methods, diffusing is unpredictable, air drying is okay, i usually prefer to pineapple over night but I feel like thats pulling out some of my curls?

The tangle fix has much finer, much closer together bristles but I only brush in the shower, could it still be causing this puffy undefined issue? Wide tooth combs just do not work for me, they tangle my hair even more. Man this is just so confusing
Hair Type: 3a/3b, dark brown, blonde highlights, normal - high porosity, fine - medium strands
Low Poo: Live Clean Moisturizing Shampoo (lowpoo)
Condish: Aussie Moist or Tresemee Naturals
Leave In: Giovanni DLI or Garnier Fructis Sleek and Shine LI
Styling: Curls Rock Amplifier, Pantene Curl Defining Mousse (HG)
My hair loves protein!

Last edited by Sarxh; 08-19-2013 at 10:52 AM.
I think you are protein sensitive. I would start over with a apple cider vinegar rinse after you shampoo and use the conditioner you were using before.

I didn't realize I was protein sensitive until after I did a mayo deep condition. My hair was like straw! Mayo is nothing but eggs, which of course is protein.

3b, Medium-Coarse (slight coarse charactericstics), Normal porosity & Low elasticity per Curl Wizard Profile.
Low-poo: Nourish Shampoo
Co-wash: Suave, Vo5, HE, Aussie Moist
Deep Conditioner: GVP Conditioning Balm
Leave-in: Nourish Conditioner (Trader Joe's)
Stylers: LA Looks Sports, Coconut Oil, Almond Oil, Jojoba Oil.
Methods: Wet plop or pineapple at night, diffuse in the morning. Scrunch w/joboba, coconut or almond oil.
I think you are protein sensitive. I would start over with a apple cider vinegar rinse after you shampoo and use the conditioner you were using before.

I didn't realize I was protein sensitive until after I did a mayo deep condition. My hair was like straw! Mayo is nothing but eggs, which of course is protein.
Originally Posted by Marci Pie
But after the mayo treament and gelatin PT I did my hair felt like silk, not straw, could that still be protein sensitivity?
Hair Type: 3a/3b, dark brown, blonde highlights, normal - high porosity, fine - medium strands
Low Poo: Live Clean Moisturizing Shampoo (lowpoo)
Condish: Aussie Moist or Tresemee Naturals
Leave In: Giovanni DLI or Garnier Fructis Sleek and Shine LI
Styling: Curls Rock Amplifier, Pantene Curl Defining Mousse (HG)
My hair loves protein!
Okay I'll write out all the changes I've made in my routine that I can remember:
Before -
Shampoo with regular sulfate or sulfate free shampoo
Condish from above ears down
Brush with regular brush
Wrap hair in t shirt
Smooth on Garnier Leave In
Apply moroccan oil from mid to ends
Scrunch in mousse all over
Pineapple over night
My hair wasnt really great with this routine (lots of frizz) which is why I wanted to change

After (now) - wash with low poo
Condish from above ears down with Aussie Moist
Brush with TangleFix (tangle teezer dupe)
Smooth on Giovanni DLI
(Sometimes) smooth on KY Liquid
Smooth on or scrunch in Curls Rock Amplifier
Smooth and scrunch gel (varies between Equate Sport Gel or Garnier Pure Clean)
Im experimenting with different drying methods, diffusing is unpredictable, air drying is okay, i usually prefer to pineapple over night but I feel like thats pulling out some of my curls?

The tangle fix has much finer, much closer together bristles but I only brush in the shower, could it still be causing this puffy undefined issue? Wide tooth combs just do not work for me, they tangle my hair even more. Man this is just so confusing
Originally Posted by Sarxh
Hmm, I'm going to still vote for more gel, and possibly try skipping the KY Jelly. The combo of LI + KY+ Curls Rock could definitely be overkill. In my experience, finer hair needs a good amount of hold to maintain definition, and the more you layer underneath, the more hold you're going to need. From my experience (going way back to when I first joined this site), Pure Clean Gel gave awesome results but could be really tricky to use because of consistency and majorly increased drying time. I don't think protein is an issue, since you're main complaint is soft hair. Plus, you were using the MoroccanOil mousse, which has a decent hit of protein. I have chin length, layered hair that is fine in texture and thick in density, so it's a challenge to distribute product thoroughly and evenly. I can easily use almost 1/8 cup of gel, depending on which type I use. I also found that applying gel is sections helped immensely. I add LI and curl cream while still upside down (I rinse upside down), then flip right side up and roughly set a part (I just adjust the curl clumps to resemble a sort of straight part). I apply gel in a total of 5 blobs. First blob is smoothed over part and canopy. Second, third and fourth blobs are applied to left side, right side and back, in a combo rake/scrunch technique. Then I flip over again and apply the last blob, scrunching into the length. From there I plop.

3a/f/iii
Modified CG since 11/5/11
CLEANSE: VO5 Vanilla Mint Tea Clarifying, DevaCare No-Poo, CHS Treatment Shampoo
RO: DevaCare One Condition, SS Caitlin's Conditioner, Mop Top Daily Conditioner
LI: SS Repairing Protein Treatment, CHS Silk Leave-In
STYLE: Re:Coil, Curl Keeper, Deva Ultra Defining Gel, Curls Rock Amplifier and Strong Hold Mousse, Sweet Curls Elixirs Okra Gel and Hard Hold Gel, SS Curl Enhancing Jelly and Firm Hold Gel
Youre right Corrina, I think I'll cut out the jelly, but I also realized after some more research my hair is definitely over conditioned. I'm gonna do another gelatin PT tonight and an apple cider vinger rinse prior.

I think I'm also gonna switch to a light rinse out conditioner as the one I use now is super thick and moisturizing and as much as I love it, it could be the cause. I'm probably gonna switch to the tresemme naturals condish I have in my shower as I didn't find it too moisturizing so maybe itll be just enough.

I've never done an ACV rinse before though, do I just use it alone? And should I use it before or after the PT? Also, when I do the vinger rinse, should I low poo first then ACV rinse then condition and detangle as usual? Or do I skip any of those steps?
Hair Type: 3a/3b, dark brown, blonde highlights, normal - high porosity, fine - medium strands
Low Poo: Live Clean Moisturizing Shampoo (lowpoo)
Condish: Aussie Moist or Tresemee Naturals
Leave In: Giovanni DLI or Garnier Fructis Sleek and Shine LI
Styling: Curls Rock Amplifier, Pantene Curl Defining Mousse (HG)
My hair loves protein!
I wouldn't do the ACV before a PT. the purpose of ACV is to reseal and close the cuticle. The point of the PT is to absorb into the hair.
ACV needs to be very diluted with water to keep the pH from being too acidic.

3a/f/iii
Modified CG since 11/5/11
CLEANSE: VO5 Vanilla Mint Tea Clarifying, DevaCare No-Poo, CHS Treatment Shampoo
RO: DevaCare One Condition, SS Caitlin's Conditioner, Mop Top Daily Conditioner
LI: SS Repairing Protein Treatment, CHS Silk Leave-In
STYLE: Re:Coil, Curl Keeper, Deva Ultra Defining Gel, Curls Rock Amplifier and Strong Hold Mousse, Sweet Curls Elixirs Okra Gel and Hard Hold Gel, SS Curl Enhancing Jelly and Firm Hold Gel
So should I maybe do the ACV rinse after the PT to help seal in the PT? Or just do it another day altogether?
Hair Type: 3a/3b, dark brown, blonde highlights, normal - high porosity, fine - medium strands
Low Poo: Live Clean Moisturizing Shampoo (lowpoo)
Condish: Aussie Moist or Tresemee Naturals
Leave In: Giovanni DLI or Garnier Fructis Sleek and Shine LI
Styling: Curls Rock Amplifier, Pantene Curl Defining Mousse (HG)
My hair loves protein!
I would do it another day, if at all. Some people swear by them, but others find it causes more problems than its worth.

3a/f/iii
Modified CG since 11/5/11
CLEANSE: VO5 Vanilla Mint Tea Clarifying, DevaCare No-Poo, CHS Treatment Shampoo
RO: DevaCare One Condition, SS Caitlin's Conditioner, Mop Top Daily Conditioner
LI: SS Repairing Protein Treatment, CHS Silk Leave-In
STYLE: Re:Coil, Curl Keeper, Deva Ultra Defining Gel, Curls Rock Amplifier and Strong Hold Mousse, Sweet Curls Elixirs Okra Gel and Hard Hold Gel, SS Curl Enhancing Jelly and Firm Hold Gel
I just finished applying the PT now (didnt spread it around very well :x hopefully itll spread around and absorb on its own in the bun + cap since its runny) I'm gonna leave it for an hour then wash and style. I'm definitely gonna try the ACV another day though because I really need a good cleaning from this over conditioning and many people said it works great. Worth a try right? :P

Also I added vinegar to my PT mix and didnt see till after that it said only do so for blow drying method -.- lol will it make a difference? It was a really tiny amnt.

Thank you so much for your help btw, idk what I'd do without this place!
Hair Type: 3a/3b, dark brown, blonde highlights, normal - high porosity, fine - medium strands
Low Poo: Live Clean Moisturizing Shampoo (lowpoo)
Condish: Aussie Moist or Tresemee Naturals
Leave In: Giovanni DLI or Garnier Fructis Sleek and Shine LI
Styling: Curls Rock Amplifier, Pantene Curl Defining Mousse (HG)
My hair loves protein!
If all else fails, clarify, go back to what you were using before, and then change just one thing at a time so you know exactly how it affects your hair. It helps if you writie things down. Another thing I did early on, when I wanted to try out different things and was getting impatient, is to use one product on half your hair and something else on the other half (but with the same product family--gels, leave ins, etc.). I found this was actually pretty useful, because I could compare the two sides and see what worked better. The difference is subtle enough that you won't look odd, but you'll be able to see if one product really does the job.
3a/b, F, normal porosity

Wash with either Suave Tropical Coconut, As I Am, or CJ Daily Fix
Condition with STC or Yes to Blueberries and detangle with Denman, rinse very lightly (baptismal rinse)
Add LAL gel, either Sport or Wet Look, scrunch with flour sack towel, and plop
Diffuse 5 minutes, then air dry
I don't want to speak too soon as my hair is still damp and drying, but I think it's nearly safe to say, problem solved! My hair looks much more defined, the curls are back, bouncy, and still feel soft and healthy! I think my hair loves protein lol. I also just ended up doing the ACV rinse anyway, I was feeling gutsy :P I left the PT in for an hour, rinsed out with plain water a bit, then did the ACV rinse (1 part vinegar, 3 parts water), then conditioned and brushed out as usual, except conditioned with TN Vibrantly Smooth instead of Aussie Moist. It's a nice conditioner! Great slip. I feel like the ACV rinse helped lock in the protein better, and I know for a fact it really helped reduce frizz!

Then I styled, but used much less leave in, only a penny size (still more than enough so I think I could even go less), about the same amount of Curls Rock Amp., and then maybe a loony size each side of my hair of gel, rake then scrunch. I left it to air dry. Looks great ! Thanks so much for the help guys!
Hair Type: 3a/3b, dark brown, blonde highlights, normal - high porosity, fine - medium strands
Low Poo: Live Clean Moisturizing Shampoo (lowpoo)
Condish: Aussie Moist or Tresemee Naturals
Leave In: Giovanni DLI or Garnier Fructis Sleek and Shine LI
Styling: Curls Rock Amplifier, Pantene Curl Defining Mousse (HG)
My hair loves protein!

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