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Old 09-07-2013, 01:36 AM   #1
 
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Default Only sulphates get rid of silicones??

On several websites I've read that one can only get rid of silicone build-up by using sulphates, when on other websites they say that coco betaine or cocamidepropyl betain (low-poo) can do the job as well. What is true?
Does it depend on the kind of -cone perhaps?

2B-3A fine-medium/low porosity
krullenwijzer.blogspot.nl
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Routine:
Wash: Daily Fix,SMT, Kesham, Urtekram
RO: Motions CPR Li, Inecto Cocos co, AO GPB, KCTT
acv-rinse, sometimes honey-rinse
LI: coconut oil (winter), CJBC-LI
Styling: AVG, Etos Solid Power Gel, Taft gel, CJPP
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Old 09-07-2013, 03:21 AM   #2
 
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Curl Chemist says coco betaine will do the trick, and considering her education and background, I'm believing her over any website. I can also say that I've tried even the strongest silicones (looking at you, dimethicone), and have had no issues using only low-poo (or even cleansing conditioners) with coco betaine.
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Modified CG since 11/5/11
CO-WASH: VO5 Vanilla Mint Tea Clarifying, DevaCare No-Poo
CLARIFY: CHS Treatment Shampoo (used prior to PT/DT)
RO: DevaCare One Condition, Regis Olive Oil
LI: Cure Care, As I Am Leave-In
STYLE: Re:Coil, Curl Keeper, Biotera Gel, Deva Ultra Defining Gel, GVP Liquid Sculpting Gel, Curls Rock Amplifier and Strong Hold Mousse
PT/DT: IAGirl's PT, One n' Only Argan Hydrating Mask
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Old 09-07-2013, 07:02 PM   #3
 
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Agree with Corrina trust scientists like Tonya McKay and the Natural Haven blog,
What's the Scoop on Silicones?
Amodimethicone and other Amine-functionalized Silicones
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2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG, growing out mechanical and chemical damage = breakage and very high porosity. Past armpit length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut
Treatments: Komaza Matani, coconut oil, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss ultimate volume, Inecto argan
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Boots Essentials gel
Experimenting with: going back to basics
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Old 09-08-2013, 11:17 PM   #4
 
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Thanks Corrina and Firefox!

@Corrina: I thought so too, but reading all these different things made me doubt myself.

@Firefox: thanks for the links.

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2b-c/3a med/fine- low porosity- normal elasticity, BSL
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2B/C-3A) fine - low porosity
Routine:
Wash: Daily Fix,SMT, Kesham, Urtekram
RO: Motions CPR Li, Inecto Cocos co, AO GPB, KCTT
acv-rinse, sometimes honey-rinse
LI: coconut oil (winter), CJBC-LI
Styling: AVG, Etos Solid Power Gel, Taft gel, CJPP
, JCCC, BRHG
Plopping~Pixiecurl diffuse~clipping
KrullenWijzer.blogspot.nl
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Old 09-09-2013, 10:33 AM   #5
 
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My low poo in my siggy doesn't get out all of the cones, it has cocamidepropyl betain in it. I am in love with the tresemme gel in my siggy and have to clarify once per week to keep the buildup down even though the gel contains a supposedly water soluble cone. I dislike that I have to resort to harsher methods, but its not the end of the world either. I'd much rather have nice hair every day than the alternative. The clarifing poos that I use do not have sulfates so I think its the quantity of the coco-B in the poo that is key to removal of cones.
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CG Day 1: May 16, 2013

Poo: CJ Daily Fix Cleansing Condish (as needed)
CO: Tresemme Naturals Vibrantly Smooth Condish
RO&LI: CJ Beauticurls Argan & Olive Oil Daily Hair Condish
Styling: CJ Pattern Pusha or FSG, TRESemme Flawless Curls - Bouncy Curls Defining Gel, Giovanni LANaturals HardHold Gel (canopy only)
DT: CJ Curl Rehab, Coconut oil, SS Repairing PT

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Old 09-09-2013, 11:24 AM   #6
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefox7275 View Post
Agree with Corrina trust scientists like Tonya McKay and the Natural Haven blog,
What's the Scoop on Silicones?
Amodimethicone and other Amine-functionalized Silicones
According to the Natural Haven blog on this issue, the implication is that cocamidopropyl betaine by itself is not as effective as are the sulfates:

Alternatives to Sulfate Shampoos: Cocamidopropyl betaine

Last edited by SuzyQ3; 09-09-2013 at 11:29 AM.
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Old 09-09-2013, 12:23 PM   #7
 
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I think it depends on what type of water you have too. I have very hard water and low poos just don't do the trick with it. Since getting a shower filter put in, it's been much better.
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Old 09-09-2013, 02:22 PM   #8
 
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That article appears to focus on the ability of detergents to dissolve oils, not silicones or polyquaterniums. A primary reason why low-poos are recommended over sulphate poos is that they don't strip hair of oil, which would leave it dry and unprotected.
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Old 09-09-2013, 02:28 PM   #9
 
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One thing that seems to get left out when this question arises is that there is water solubility, and then there's water solubility. Some things dissolve readily, some slowly, and the proportions may also affect solubility.
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Old 09-09-2013, 03:53 PM   #10
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morgan_Adcock View Post
That article appears to focus on the ability of detergents to dissolve oils, not silicones or polyquaterniums. A primary reason why low-poos are recommended over sulphate poos is that they don't strip hair of oil, which would leave it dry and unprotected.
You're right. The article itself does focus on dissolving oils. But what I meant by the author implying that cocamidoproyl betaine might not remove all silicones was based on his or her answer to a question in the comments section.

The question:
Quote:
would this be enough to cleanse if you co- washed and didn't use silicones (except water soluble ones) but say used polyquats? ty CHM
The answer:
Quote:
CHM - polyquats similar to silicones tend to require SLS for removal. However this depends on how much is in the product and also some polyquats are 'easier' to remove than others. The best advice I can give is a watch and see approach. If you start experiencing build up then you know perhaps the shampoo is not good enough.
It seems that the author is saying that silicones are similar to polyquats in that they need the harsher sulfates for removal.

But even if that's true, that would apply only to the non-soluble silicones. BTW, I'm not necessarily agreeing with the author but was just pointing out to the previous poster that Natural Haven, as far as I can see, doesn't flat out state that cocamidoproyl betaine removes silicone build-up.

Last edited by SuzyQ3; 09-09-2013 at 03:59 PM.
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