In need of 2a/3c advice (w/ pics)

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  • 1 Post By CurlyInTheFog

So, the other day I did a protein treatment and the next day I scrubbed my scalp with baking soda (it doesn't strip my hair like I've read it does with some people) followed by an ACV wash. Applied leave-in, sealed with olive oil then applied gel. I wet pineappled and this is what it looked like about 50% dry:



When it fully dried it looked about the same as in the picture above but all those clumps had separated from what you see there to about 3 times as many "clumps." They were more like stringy strands at that point because the clumps had separated so much once I took my hair down and shook it out.

So that night I spritzed it with some conditioner/water and pineappled again. This is how it looked right after waking up:






It was no longer shiny and my ends looked terrible.

How do I remedy this? I wet my ends and applied a little more gel but it kinda ended up looking even more stringy once that dried. Do I need some kind of creme or butter for my ends? What are some good 2nd and 3rd day hair tips?

Also, how do I keep the clumps in place once they dry?
-- 2c/3a
-- medium porosity
-- medium density
-- fine texture
-- dark brown/natural red highlights/grey streaks
Baking soda and protein treatment? Ouch, that's a double whammy of drying. How strong was the vinegar, do you mean wash as in scrub or rinse as in reset the pH? Are you using a rinse out conditioner and is your leave in a true conditioner rich in fatty alcohols and catioinic surfacants?

Wash your hair again with a proper shampoo or conditioner, do a deep conditioning treatment.
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Boots Essentials gel
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect
Would definitely condition. Is that something you always do routine wise?
Baking soda and protein treatment? Ouch, that's a double whammy of drying. How strong was the vinegar, do you mean wash as in scrub or rinse as in reset the pH? Are you using a rinse out conditioner and is your leave in a true conditioner rich in fatty alcohols and catioinic surfacants?

Wash your hair again with a proper shampoo or conditioner, do a deep conditioning treatment.
Originally Posted by Firefox7275

It was a quarter cup of ACV to 3/4 cup water. I used it after my baking soda scrub as a rinse. I am using a rinse out (Suave) and I'm using a different, thicker conditioner but I'm not sure if it's rich in fatty alcohols and... I've never even heard of catioinic surfacants. I thought I did a good amount of research but I suppose I didn't. I didn't realize that protein treatments dry your hair out. After I do one, my hair usually feels silky the day of but the next day my hair is dry again (now that I think about it.)

I can't get any proper shampoo/conditioner as of yet as I am a stay at home mom and my husband has been out of work for a month (with no pay) due to surgery. As soon as I'm able to though, I will be buying a list of products I've found that I think will help my cause. Although, after your response, I feel like all my research is a waste. Thank you so much for your advice!! I really appreciate it!!
-- 2c/3a
-- medium porosity
-- medium density
-- fine texture
-- dark brown/natural red highlights/grey streaks
Would definitely condition. Is that something you always do routine wise?
Originally Posted by chupie
When I shower, I condition, detangle, rinse, condition and then leave it on for the rest of the shower. Afterwards I apply a good amount of leave-in, then seal with olive oil and scrunch in a moderate amount of gel. I spray with a combo of water/conditioner before bed and in the morning to "revive" my curls (even though I don't think it really does any good.) Do you recommend something different? I know my hair needs moisture like crazy. It's always been straw-like.
-- 2c/3a
-- medium porosity
-- medium density
-- fine texture
-- dark brown/natural red highlights/grey streaks
BTW, I just noticed my thread title is wrong. It should read "2c/3a." At least this is what I believe my hair to be categorized as.
-- 2c/3a
-- medium porosity
-- medium density
-- fine texture
-- dark brown/natural red highlights/grey streaks
It was a quarter cup of ACV to 3/4 cup water. I used it after my baking soda scrub as a rinse. I am using a rinse out (Suave) and I'm using a different, thicker conditioner but I'm not sure if it's rich in fatty alcohols and... I've never even heard of catioinic surfacants. I thought I did a good amount of research but I suppose I didn't. I didn't realize that protein treatments dry your hair out. After I do one, my hair usually feels silky the day of but the next day my hair is dry again (now that I think about it.)

I can't get any proper shampoo/conditioner as of yet as I am a stay at home mom and my husband has been out of work for a month (with no pay) due to surgery. As soon as I'm able to though, I will be buying a list of products I've found that I think will help my cause. Although, after your response, I feel like all my research is a waste. Thank you so much for your advice!! I really appreciate it!!
Originally Posted by LoveGirl22
Protein treatments don't dry everyone's hair out, but many need to follow it with a deep conditioner, certainly not with baking soda. TBH a weaker sulphate shampoo would be gentler on hair and skin than harsh alkaline cleansers like soap and baking soda, especially on hair that is already straw-like. I wonder if you have your properties wrong, straw-like does not fit with fine hair, medium porosity - I'd expect either coarse or damaged or build up.
Porosity and Curly Hair

You can DIY a deep conditioner with your Suave Naturals plus a kitchen oil (ideally penetrating like coconut or olive) plus honey/ sugar syrup and/ or aloe vera gel. Also try using more leave in conditioner than you are at present, maybe double. Worst that can happen is you don't look your best and need to rewash.

There are some great articles on the Natural Haven blog, also here on NC by 'curl chemist' Tonya McKay.
Ingredients Commonly Found in Hair Care Products
THE NATURAL HAVEN
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Boots Essentials gel
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect

Last edited by Firefox7275; 09-13-2013 at 06:42 PM.
Update: It's been four days since my protein treatment and two days since my baking soda/ACV rinse. Today, I did my normal routine (co-wash, detangle, rinse, condition and set, rinse, leave-in, seal, gel)

After I applied product to soaking wet hair, I plopped for about 20 minutes then wet pineappled for about 4 1/2 hours then took it down and shook it out.

This is my hair in the pineapple (during a run to the store) with the next three pictures being my hair at about 90% dry after shaking it out.









SO, now it has been two hours or so since I took my hair down:





My ends still look frizzy but not too bad. But by tomorrow morning, I know they'll be frizzy again. I would also love to have more defined curls rather than all that frizz in between!!

Please feel free to give me more advice or analyze my hair or whatever! Haha. I need all the help I can get!
-- 2c/3a
-- medium porosity
-- medium density
-- fine texture
-- dark brown/natural red highlights/grey streaks
It was a quarter cup of ACV to 3/4 cup water. I used it after my baking soda scrub as a rinse. I am using a rinse out (Suave) and I'm using a different, thicker conditioner but I'm not sure if it's rich in fatty alcohols and... I've never even heard of catioinic surfacants. I thought I did a good amount of research but I suppose I didn't. I didn't realize that protein treatments dry your hair out. After I do one, my hair usually feels silky the day of but the next day my hair is dry again (now that I think about it.)

I can't get any proper shampoo/conditioner as of yet as I am a stay at home mom and my husband has been out of work for a month (with no pay) due to surgery. As soon as I'm able to though, I will be buying a list of products I've found that I think will help my cause. Although, after your response, I feel like all my research is a waste. Thank you so much for your advice!! I really appreciate it!!
Originally Posted by LoveGirl22
Protein treatments don't dry everyone's hair out, but many need to follow it with a deep conditioner, certainly not with baking soda. TBH a weaker sulphate shampoo would be gentler on hair and skin than harsh alkaline cleansers like soap and baking soda, especially on hair that is already straw-like. I wonder if you have your properties wrong, straw-like does not fit with fine hair, medium porosity - I'd expect either coarse or damaged or build up.
Porosity and Curly Hair

You can DIY a deep conditioner with your Suave Naturals plus a kitchen oil (ideally penetrating like coconut or olive) plus honey/ sugar syrup and/ or aloe vera gel. Also try using more leave in conditioner than you are at present, maybe double. Worst that can happen is you don't look your best and need to rewash.

There are some great articles on the Natural Haven blog, also here on NC by 'curl chemist' Tonya McKay.
Ingredients Commonly Found in Hair Care Products
THE NATURAL HAVEN
Originally Posted by Firefox7275
It's entirely possible that I do have my hair properties mixed up. I tried to define it as best I could but I've avoided taking care of my hair my whole 24 years of life so I'm not really aware of it's habits. It's terrible, I know!!

Should I follow up a protein treatment immediately with a deep condition?
-- 2c/3a
-- medium porosity
-- medium density
-- fine texture
-- dark brown/natural red highlights/grey streaks
Apply more gel than normal to your wet hair after washing
I'm a 3A as well. I have a question about your styling method--why do you wet pineapple? Wouldn't your curl pattern would be less disturbed and your hair dry faster if it you let it dry completely down? Do you seal your ends in particular? Give them extra TLC, I mean. Olive oil might not be the best thing to seal with IMO. It can weigh down your curl pattern and it is very heavy and penetrating. (This is coming from a coarse curly.) I love it for DTs but still. You want something lighter to sit outside the hair shaft and provide a barrier from the elements. I recommend grapeseed oil or jojoba. I think it's best to deep condition immediately after a PT. I also really think you should steer clear of the baking soda. Kimmaytube has a series about this on youtube about PH levels and how baking soda can shock your hair. I'd rather clarify with a sulfate before baking soda. ACV rinses are supposed to be perfectly fine in moderation although I can't say from personal experience since I really don't like the smell and haven't given it a go. Also, which gel are you using in particular so that we can dissect the ingredients? Maybe the reason it peters out on you later in the day (and your ends fray) is that it has glycerin or humectants that are causing your hair to frizz. One note on this-I personally don't like hard hold gels at all and stick to gellies. Kathymack is another 3A on the board and she does gelly styling because it's more natural, less drying. Note she's fine and I'm coarse. Also, how do you refresh so far? I regular get to three or four day hair with refreshing and I wake up with my hair mussed and frizzy and ends all frayed but they come back together like magic with water and fresh leave-in. Lastly, you have beautiful hair so don't worry. The people that come on here asking for help typically know more than most and have very nice hair. They're just trying to tweak it is all.
3A - C, HP, ME, HD. (Coarse, High Porosity, Medium Elasticity, High Density.)

CG since Nov. 2012

Poos: SM Moisture Retention + Yucca Baobab, TJ's Tea Tree Tingle
Condish: TJ 'sTea Tree Tingle*, SM Moisture Retention* + Curl & Shine + Yucca Baobab, Yes to Blueberries
Stylers: KCKT*, SM Curl Enhancing Smoothie* + Curl & Style Milk*, KCCC*, FSG*, CJ Pattern Pusha, Curl Keeper
Sealers: Jojoba* or Grapeseed* oil

* = HG

Agree that you overdid it with the protein + baking soda, but the ACV rinse you used was also very strong and probably didn't help either. I wouldn't use more than two tablespoons in a quart of water--stronger isn't better. It sounds like a good deep conditioning treatment (Firefox gave you a good suggestion) once or twice a week for a few weeks would really help. You have nice curls. It won't take much to really bring them out.
Firefox7275 likes this.
3a/b, fine, normal porosity, high density

Wash: CJ Daily Fix, As I Am, TJs TTT
RO: YTB
LI: Suave TC + CJ CCCC, brushed through with Denman
Styling: Smooth in LAL Wet Look gel, scrunch, and plop 10 minutes, then add a little more gel, cover with silk cap, and sleep on it
Refresh: 3:1 water/Suave mix as needed
I'm a 3A as well. I have a question about your styling method--why do you wet pineapple? Wouldn't your curl pattern would be less disturbed and your hair dry faster if it you let it dry completely down? Do you seal your ends in particular? Give them extra TLC, I mean. Olive oil might not be the best thing to seal with IMO. It can weigh down your curl pattern and it is very heavy and penetrating. (This is coming from a coarse curly.) I love it for DTs but still. You want something lighter to sit outside the hair shaft and provide a barrier from the elements. I recommend grapeseed oil or jojoba. I think it's best to deep condition immediately after a PT. I also really think you should steer clear of the baking soda. Kimmaytube has a series about this on youtube about PH levels and how baking soda can shock your hair. I'd rather clarify with a sulfate before baking soda. ACV rinses are supposed to be perfectly fine in moderation although I can't say from personal experience since I really don't like the smell and haven't given it a go. Also, which gel are you using in particular so that we can dissect the ingredients? Maybe the reason it peters out on you later in the day (and your ends fray) is that it has glycerin or humectants that are causing your hair to frizz. One note on this-I personally don't like hard hold gels at all and stick to gellies. Kathymack is another 3A on the board and she does gelly styling because it's more natural, less drying. Note she's fine and I'm coarse. Also, how do you refresh so far? I regular get to three or four day hair with refreshing and I wake up with my hair mussed and frizzy and ends all frayed but they come back together like magic with water and fresh leave-in. Lastly, you have beautiful hair so don't worry. The people that come on here asking for help typically know more than most and have very nice hair. They're just trying to tweak it is all.
Originally Posted by dusalocks
I've been wet pineappling recently because I have air dried my hair my entire life down and it always seems to frizz like crazy and the curls don't seem to keep their shape. I tried plopping many times but it squishes my curls and makes them very compressed looking. The gel I use does have humectants and I know I shouldn't be using it but it's all I have ATM. I considered just using leave-in for now... and maybe I should. I've been refreshing with a water/conditioner mix and it works alright but not as well as I would like it to.I guess I should apply more leave-in in addition to it.
-- 2c/3a
-- medium porosity
-- medium density
-- fine texture
-- dark brown/natural red highlights/grey streaks
It's entirely possible that I do have my hair properties mixed up. I tried to define it as best I could but I've avoided taking care of my hair my whole 24 years of life so I'm not really aware of it's habits. It's terrible, I know!!

Should I follow up a protein treatment immediately with a deep condition?
Originally Posted by LoveGirl22
Welcome to the club, there are loads of us on here that were abusing our hair royally before Curly Girl!

If you think your hair needs a deep condition, yes. Try it, see if there is any difference. But also use way more leave in conditioner, that is a relatively cheap way to reduce frizz and help shape and define curls. Needing straight up oil to seal might suggests that you are not using a rich enough leave in or not enough of it, I don't find oils aid clumping, for me protein and fatty alcohols do but YMMV.
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Boots Essentials gel
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect

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