Why is my hair FLAT??

Curl formation is good but its really FLAT. Am I using too much moisture?? Im in Wisconsin, and its cold and dry, but I still dont like my hair!!
It could be the conditioner. If you're doing the baptismal/sprinkle rinse, you might find it helpful to try to target your roots when you rinse. If you're adding leave in after a good rinse, try using a little less, and target your ends.

You might also find it helpful to do a protein treatment. IAgirl's Gelatin Protein Treatment is cheap, readily available, and easy to do.
Peace,
Morgan

Baby Fine 3B, low porosity, normal density and elasticity
CGing since July 2008
I'm in WI too, and I *never* get great volume when it's cold and dry, and I've been CG-ish for 5 years or so. I don't mind, though, because the trade-off is sleeker looking hair.
2C/3A, fine, higher porosity.
Morgan, I dont do the CG thing of conditioner wash, and leaving in conditioner. I have had zero luck with leaving in conditioner; although I am waiting for a bottle of Daily Fix. I have LP hair and I think you know how frustrating that is; products sit on it. Even with the Daily Fix, I have no idea whether that is a product with which I will need conditioner. I alternate between As I Am jelly, and CK; and then wonder if I should be using a mousse/gel combo. I am ready to throw in the towel, and the only thing certain about that is that I have the right kind of towel.
JLeighs, what do you use on your hair? I would not say my hair looks sleek.
Can you post some pics?

I know you've been struggling with your hair, a pic may help us understand better!
fine - low/normal porosity - medium density - normal elasticity.

Currently using:
Cowash: Cure Care diluted with water 1:1
RO: Cure Care, V05 Kiwi Lime
Styler: UFD CM (old formula), FSG + CNPF
PT: IAgirl's gelatine

Experimenting with: no guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride, gelatin gel

Recent findings: my hair likes Cure Care diluted with water as a cowash; does NOT like guar h.c.!

iherb discount code: CFN646
I use Alaffia Neem & Shea shampoo and I either use the matching conditioner or I use Davines LOVE conditioner (not CG but my hair loves this stuff in the winter). My favorite winter stylers at the moment are Queen Helene Royal Curl (my hair loves glycerin in the low dews) or Spiralicious. I used CJ Curl Queen the other day and that turned out well, too.
2C/3A, fine, higher porosity.
Wavy, it looks so bad at t he moment I am embarassed. I am also letting it go gray, so that is also an issue, although I have a pic from about 2 weeks ago where my hair looks great, but I cannot tell you for certain what I did t hat day. Sometimes I use a coco betaine poo, and sometimes even a coco sulfate shampoo. Maybe I cant use GVP two days in a row, although I dilute that 1:1 with water. I dont know if I should be using lighter or heavier products.. Jleighs, I have not heard of several of your products and I thought I had heard of it all. I have a small bottle of Spiralicious, didnt like it. I wonder if the Curl Whisperer does phone consults....
Jleighs, I have not heard of several of your products and I thought I had heard of it all. I have a small bottle of Spiralicious, didnt like it. I wonder if the Curl Whisperer does phone consults....
Originally Posted by Myrna
Davines has a VERY nice line of products, including stylers. I don't have any of their stylers at the moment, but I plan to get some soon. Honestly, I don't get most of my products from recs here. I figured out a few years ago that if lots of people here are raving about it, usually my hair will hate it. Spiralicious is one of the few exceptions. I think that's because there is such a huge emphasis on moisture and "slip" around here, and my hair just can't handle much moisture. My hair also prefers conditioners that "grab" to ones that give lots of slip. I have to rinse all my conditioner out. Using a LI is the kiss of death for my hair, and except for in the cold and dry months, I cannot use heavy moisturizing conditioners. Davines LOVE is very moisturizing and slippery, but I can only use a dime size for my whole head. I used to over-condition all.the.time. Then someone would tell me I needed a PT. That would work and then I would OC again. Eventually I figured out that if I just used some shampoo once in awhile and backed off on the moisture, I wouldn't need a PT every 3 days to fix the OC'ing. I also realized that all the supposedly "gentle" sulfate-free shampoos I've been using were harder on my hair (and scalp) than sulfates. So, I'm no longer even remotely CG. The Alaffia shampoo is sulfate free, but it's liquid black soap. My hair feels squeaky clean but it doesn't dry my hair out at all.

I've also learned that much of the conventional wisdom here on handling curly hair or what ingredients to stay away from during what season just doesn't apply to my hair. My hair should hate glycerin in the winter and like it in spring/summer. The opposite is true.
2C/3A, fine, higher porosity.
Jleighs, I SO can relate to what you say about your hair! I think this is the first time someone has said it. Maybe its 'cause you are in Wisconsin also!

So: can you tell me where you purchase the Davines product? and where in WI are you, I am in the madison area.

Yes, right, I cannot do a leave in either. I might be sorry that I recently orderes Slip Detangler from Curly Hair Solutions; it is supposed to work well with Curl Keeper. But yes, the leave in thing leaves me with a product that is sure to interact with whatever moisture is or is not in the air; if its dry, the leave in weighs it down; if it is humid - FRIZZ! I have also heard the 'sealing' recs - but I cannot use oils. And yes also, I find that a mild sulfate shampoo is often great for my hair...but since I wash every day, I am reluctant to do that every time I wash so I need an alternative. I bought Jessicurls deep conditioner and I did not like that AT ALL; it was so heavy, I was embarassed to go out with how my hair looked. So the heck with that! Once in a while I use Giovanni Smooth as Silk, and that generally is good .
Hmmm, JLeighs, the discription of your hair sounds hauntingly familiar. I also discovered the hard way that moisture is not the miracle for me that it is for many others. I can not use any leave in (and I often use a salt based curl enhancer without problem). As for sealing with oil or using butters - there is no way! I can co-wash, but so far only with TN. Most other condish leaves my hair flat and gunky feeling. I cowash and rinse completely or use a sulfate free shampoo, and a very light RO to detangle and that's it. I do an overnight DT w Vatika or coconut oil a couple times a month and a rare PT and that seems to be all I need. I consider myself CG, but I am in the minority on many of the supposed rules around here and do my own thing. I even (gasp) brush my hair occasionally.

Was wondering, Myrna, if after your hair is really dry if you just gently picked out your hair or gently brushed it you'd get the volume you want. My hair fluffs up, and then reforms softer, looser curls again in a short period of time when I do this. I wait until day 2 or after do this, however. If I try it on wash day it's a mess because my hair takes forever to dry, even with diffusing. I just live with flat hair on day one and if its really awful I'll clip it up at the crown and wear it half up/half down. I live in Georgia, which is fairly humid in the winter (and a steam bath in the summer). We get a few weeks of cold, dry air in the winter and my hair is flat and horrible no matter what I do. I just wait it out. Weather certainly matters - hence my avi name. :-). I am anxious to hear if you find a good combo that works in cold, dry air. I
2b/2c ( weather permitting - 3a), fine texture but lots of it, colored and highlights, BSL.
Experimenting w CG since Oct 2012

Current rotation:
cowash= TN
AG Gel Mousse, LA Gel,
DT = Coconut oil (love)

Last edited by Weathercurl; 12-14-2013 at 08:05 AM.
I'm in the Milwaukee area. I got my Davines conditioner from my salon in Fox Point, but I know you can find their products online and in other salons. I haven't had to buy any recently because it lasts so long since I use so little.

I also cannot use any oils in my hair at all. I've tried every oil under the sun in varying amounts. Nope. My hair hates oils. I wash every other day. I've managed to figure out how to get passable second day hair.

I forgot to mention a trick I sometimes use to get some lift on cold, dry days. I do this on dried, scrunched out hair. I use my rat tail comb to lift up sections of my hair on my crown area, put a small amount of some kind of sticky gel on my fingertips, and then I quickly massage it into the roots. It works pretty well.
2C/3A, fine, higher porosity.
I use A|G Gel Mousse, targeting it just at my roots and crown (and gel on the rest of my hair), which seems to help with root lift.
Peace,
Morgan

Baby Fine 3B, low porosity, normal density and elasticity
CGing since July 2008
Isnt this interesting. three of us with similar hair and reactions. JLeighs, I see Whole Foods carries the Allafia products; specifically, which ones do you use and do you prefer them to the Davine products? Davine look more costly - I dont mind, I have spent a lot on stuff that does not work. I need a daily shampoo, conditioner, and styling product.
Morgan, thats another thing; sometimes I feel I should mostly ditch gel and use mousse, but I have to use a mousse and a gel; mousse alone is not sufficient. Fave mousse is Deva, period, the only Deva product I love. Weathercurl, I wash daily. At times, my hair is great with lots of volume; and at times it sucks.
Isnt this interesting. three of us with similar hair and reactions. JLeighs, I see Whole Foods carries the Allafia products; specifically, which ones do you use and do you prefer them to the Davine products? Davine look more costly - I dont mind, I have spent a lot on stuff that does not work. I need a daily shampoo, conditioner, and styling product.
Originally Posted by Myrna
I chose the Alaffia Neem & Shea shampoo/conditioner because I needed something that would help my scalp. As a bonus, my hair loves them both. I haven't tried any of the other types yet. I can't say I prefer one brand over the other because they each have their uses. The Alaffia condish has almost no slip on me, which I like. I can only use slippy products in tiny amounts. I use Davines condish when my hair needs a small shot of extra moisture in the winter. I don't have any stylers from Davines at the moment. I've tried a few of them because my coarse-haired cousin *loves* their stylers and gave me some samples. I liked them but I cannot remember at the moment which ones I've tried! I will have to ask her because I want to purchase some.
2C/3A, fine, higher porosity.
Here's how it went today: I washed my hair with Giovanni's 50/50, and conditioned with Yes to Tomatoes. Tomatoes does not get much press here, and I dont know why; I really like it. It is not heavy or really light, it is actually (supposedly) a volumizing formula. Then I COMBED curl keeper into my hair, which the intructional video says to do. I have nice soft, shiny, not flat curls today. I went ahead last night and ordered the Curly Hair Solutions Slip detangler, and I hope I am not sorry. It is supposed to work with the CK. I have no crunch; generally i like a bit of crunch. but I am not complaining.
I didn't care much for curl keeper but I can highly recommend the AG Gel Mousse. I wash every 3 or 4 days so I want something with good hold. I have used LA sports gel fairly regularly for months now. But I prefer mousse as I get curl and volume and gel flattens me out a bit. Most brands of mousse don't provide the long term hold gel does. But the AG gel mousse is really good. It gives nice volume from day one and the curls last. It's expensive but I get great hair when I use it.
2b/2c ( weather permitting - 3a), fine texture but lots of it, colored and highlights, BSL.
Experimenting w CG since Oct 2012

Current rotation:
cowash= TN
AG Gel Mousse, LA Gel,
DT = Coconut oil (love)
Curl Keeper made my hair flat... definitely did not keep my curls with that product.
2c-3a - coarse - normal-high porosity - high density - growing out to donate

NP/LP: KMF Whenever Conditioner/ YTCucs
RO/LI: Sevi Pumpkin Seed DC / CJ Argan & Olive Oil, KCKT, YTBbs
DT: Coconut Oil + scalp massage
OIL/STYLER: SM Elixir / KCCC
COLOR: henna, amla & indigo
Weathercurl, where do you purchase AG mousse?

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