Starting CG, yet again?

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Last summer I tried CG, but failed and continued with mod CG. I used some silicones and sulphate-free shampoo(bonacure color save maybe?). But even that left my roots dirty, so I had to use the bad stuff more and more often. Then I gave up on the sulphate-free shampoo. CO-wash is also disaster in my hair. My ends would appreciate, but my roots are too healthy. When I am wearing my hair blow-dried straight, I don't have to wash it for four days and it's fine. When I do my mod CG "routine", the third day is almost wave-free already. I had really curly hair when I was younger and now 2B on good days and on "bad days" 2A. Some days I get even couple of ringlets!

I have 3-4 inches growth of my own virgin hair, which is totally different thing than my bleached ends. My ends are really damaged and roots healthy and strong. This is huge problem because my ends need very much moisture and repair and roots get greasy from really moisturizing products. I know that you can avoid root area when applyig conditioner etc but somehow I always fail.

I haven't worn my hair natural for good two months (omg!) and yesterday when I was looking the before and after pics I decided to give this one (last...) go.

So I did hair mask from avokado, egg and coconut oil. I left it in my hair for 20 minutes and washed my hair with sulphate-shampoo to get rid of any silicone. Then I applied Tresemme Naturals conditioner and washed it away. After that I applied plain FSG and little bit of coconut oil to my ends and plopped for an hour. Then I let my hair to air-dry. Here are the second day pics(my hair never looks good on the wash day...):
http://i58.tinypic.com/2nuj9cp.png
http://i59.tinypic.com/70zywl.png
http://i61.tinypic.com/2e3yej5.png

Yeah, I conditioned it more than I should. But when my hair doesn't look like weighed down, it's really dry and doesn't curl much.

I am really frustrated. I don't really have money to spend (student..) and try many products and I find it difficult to always order online. I live in Europe, so we have limited product range for wavies and curlies..

I think I forgot something... Oh well.
Still figuring out my properties.

Excuse my english, I am not a native speaker.

Last edited by amaree; 03-01-2014 at 12:55 AM.
Where in Europe?

I live in the UK and can get my hands on lots of products. Granted they aren't always pushed on these sites but our high street drugstores have a lot of products.

If you are in the UK there is a British curlies website (Google it). Posters put their high street product recommendations on their posts.

If you aren't near a large town then mail order sites include Paks Cosmetics and Beauty by Zara.

There are posters from the Netherlands on here who post where they get products from.

Last edited by Blueblood; 02-28-2014 at 01:18 AM.
I wish I lived in UK! But I live in Finland and it's very hard to find CG products here...
Still figuring out my properties.

Excuse my english, I am not a native speaker.

Last edited by amaree; 03-01-2014 at 12:56 AM.
I was actually posted on my phone before but should have answered your post more fully.

If your hair is as damaged as you say due to the bleaching going CG won't solve your issues only a hair cut will. Going CG doesn't mean you need to use loads of products and in fact you have a lot of good basic products.

Since you have coconut oil you could try leaving it on overnight as a pre-poo but only put it on your ends not anywhere near your roots. Then cover your hair with a satin/silk scarf/bonnet to makes sure it doesn't go on your pillows.

Coconut ideally should be left on for about 13 hours then washed out if used as a deep treatment as then the molecules penetrate the hair strands.

Can you get hold of lighter oils like jojoba oil, grapeseed oil or almond oil? They may work better on the ends of your hair than coconut for styling.

Also if you don't mind the colour of your natural hair just gradually cut your ends off every 4-6 weeks until the bleached ends are gone.
I know that the easiest thing would be to cut my hair, but it's part of my identity so that's not going to happen. I've been growing it for years and I have never had short hair in my life. I will probably cut it after it has grown more.

And the other thing is, I am kind of trouble sleeper and I wake up very easily. I've tried to sleep with coconut oil in my hair, but I had to wash it because I couldn't sleep.

I have to try those oils! Which would be the best? Or does it really matter..

And I don't mind my roots. It bothers me more when wearing curly than straight, but I will get used to it. Don't really care if someone thinks I look trashy.

EDIT:

I've washed my hair upside-down for many years after I got acne in my upper-back. I thought it was reason to my tangly canopy(??) hair. But today when I washed my hair "normal" way, I couldn't apply product because it was so weird. Everything was so close to my scalp and I had to go back to rinse my hair upside-down. Again, this cause that my hair is weirdly clumped together(not in a good way) and I can't detangle after shower. It just doesn't work for me, I don't have as good waves then. I always detangle when I have conditioner and it's soaking wet. I forgot to take picture before I finger-comber the crown and applied FSG.

Today I used Wella mousse and little FSG. Still used sulphate shampoo, because I don't have anything else now. Isn't fully dried yet.
I think it's better this time.
But the back is more loose wave...
Not good, but better...

Does anyone have any clue what curl pattern hair is now?
Still figuring out my properties.

Excuse my english, I am not a native speaker.

Last edited by amaree; 03-01-2014 at 07:22 AM.
The front appears to be layered.. that's probably why it has more curl, less weight to hold it down. For conditioning just the ends try putting it in a ponytail and then only conditioning the "tail", that helps me. Also try pre-poo conditioning for the ends.. I like EVOO but anything would work.

I have to use a sulfate every week or so.. and I also use a conditioner with one modified silicone. Do what works for your hair, not everyone can do complete CG.
3A, fine, porous, colored, protein sensitive
Buildup/breakout with: butters, coconut/argan oil, polyquats.
Poo: SM C&H mixed 50/50 withAussie Moist
RO: Aussie Moist
DT: EVOO
LI/Styler: SM C&H milk
Multi day: section, mist/squeeze in water, rake and scrunch.
I know that the easiest thing would be to cut my hair, but it's part of my identity so that's not going to happen. I've been growing it for years and I have never had short hair in my life. I will probably cut it after it has grown more.

And the other thing is, I am kind of trouble sleeper and I wake up very easily. I've tried to sleep with coconut oil in my hair, but I had to wash it because I couldn't sleep.

I have to try those oils! Which would be the best? Or does it really matter..

And I don't mind my roots. It bothers me more when wearing curly than straight, but I will get used to it. Don't really care if someone thinks I look trashy.

EDIT:

I've washed my hair upside-down for many years after I got acne in my upper-back. I thought it was reason to my tangly canopy(??) hair. But today when I washed my hair "normal" way, I couldn't apply product because it was so weird. Everything was so close to my scalp and I had to go back to rinse my hair upside-down. Again, this cause that my hair is weirdly clumped together(not in a good way) and I can't detangle after shower. It just doesn't work for me, I don't have as good waves then. I always detangle when I have conditioner and it's soaking wet. I forgot to take picture before I finger-comber the crown and applied FSG.

Today I used Wella mousse and little FSG. Still used sulphate shampoo, because I don't have anything else now. Isn't fully dried yet.
I think it's better this time.
But the back is more loose wave...
Not good, but better...

Does anyone have any clue what curl pattern hair is now?
Originally Posted by amaree
I have the same problem. If I do my hair upside down it gets tangled in the back but if I do it upright it gets stuck to my head. So I've start washing and rinsing it upright, then applying my product. After I do that I flip my head over and finger comb the hair away from my scalp and rake in product upside down. Then I scrunch and scrunch to get the clumps back and to get my hair to curl again. Flip over and scrunch some more. This also encourages the root curl for me. It's not CG but it's the only way I can do it.

Detangling after the shower can be tricky if you want to keep your clumps intact. Some people like the super soaker method. How come you can't detangle after rinsing?

The curl patten looks 2A/2B to me but I'm far from an expert on curl typing.
2C/3A, high porosity, low density, fine-medium

Low Poo: Jessicurl Gentle Cleansing Shampoo, Mop Top Gentle Shampoo
Clarify: Suave Naturals Daily Clarifying, KCCC
RO/CoWash: Mop Top Daily Conditioner, Suave Naturals Tropical Coconut
LI: KCKT
Stylers: AG re:coil, AG Beach Bomb, Mop Top Light Hold Anti-Frizz Gel, LA Looks Xtreme Sport
PT: Curl Junkie Repair Me, IAgirl's gelatin treatment (awesome!)

Hair LOVES proteins!

Last edited by MeeBee; 03-01-2014 at 05:53 PM.
The front appears to be layered.. that's probably why it has more curl, less weight to hold it down. For conditioning just the ends try putting it in a ponytail and then only conditioning the "tail", that helps me. Also try pre-poo conditioning for the ends.. I like EVOO but anything would work.
Originally Posted by waymire01
I've been growing my bangs, so thats why front is shorter. Thanks for the ponytail trick, it sounds really good! Is EVOO better pre-poo than coconut oil?


I have the same problem. If I do my hair upside down it gets tangled in the back but if I do it upright it gets stuck to my head. So I've start washing and rinsing it upright, then applying my product. After I do that I flip my head over and finger comb the hair away from my scalp and rake in product upside down. Then I scrunch and scrunch to get the clumps back and to get my hair to curl again. Flip over and scrunch some more. This also encourages the root curl for me. It's not CG but it's the only way I can do it.

Detangling after the shower can be tricky if you want to keep your clumps intact. Some people like the super soaker method. How come you can't detangle after rinsing?
Originally Posted by MeeBee
What about plopping? I always plop and it works for me. How I can plop if washed upright? I still have to flip my head upside-down to put the t-shirt on my head. Does it mess my hair like washing upright?

When I detangle my hair after rinsing, it gets weird strawy and straight. I think it's the heat damage... I tried super soaker method last time I went CG and can't remember what happened. I should try it again! Can I just fill my sink with water and dip my hair in it? My neck is always neglected when I do my hair because it's hard to handle and reach...

Thanks for everyone so far!
Still figuring out my properties.

Excuse my english, I am not a native speaker.
There are a fair few drugstore conditioners that are CG friendly in Europe from Schwarzkopf, L'Oreal Elvive/ Elseve, Garnier, Inecto for co-washing.

L'Oreal use lots of ceramides and hydrolysed protein for damaged hair. Gliss Kur ultimate volume has hydrolysed protein and panthenol which is also good for damage.

There is nothing wrong in using silicones that resist building up if you are low pooing - amodimethicone, water soluble PEG-. That gives you more options. There is nothing 'fail' about low pooing, its permitted in the Curly Girl Handbook.

What strikes me is you are likely not using oils the best way for wavies, and not using a leave in conditioner. Are you using hydrolysed protein? This boosts wave and volume, patch repairs damage.

Why the egg and avocado? 20 minutes won't do anything except make washing your hair a challenge, and risk weighing hair down/ making it greasy. The right conditioner should weigh hair down less and be more effective at clumping, detangling, patch repairing damage.

As already stated penetrating oils like coconut need to be left many hours on dry hair to be of any use. You can do this daytime if you are staying home or night. I can't even tell its in if I do it right and I have chronic insomnia. I oil mostly the tail of a pony but also in sections and loosely bun with Spin Pins from a pound shop/ dollar store.

Oils can be left in as part of your leave in conditioner which makes distributing tiny amounts easier. Leave in conditioner can be mixed with flaxseed gel to make a curl cream (see Sciencey Hairblog). Xanthan gum can be used to make flaxseed harder hold and wave boosting.

Your plopping time is a long time for damaged ends that are probably overly porous but not protected by plenty of conditioner, that would cause frizz/ pouf/ straight underlayers for my colour damaged hair.

Ultimately you will probably have to live with less than great hair as you grow it out, especially if your roots are low porosity and/ or you can't find a way to do treatments properly.
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect
There are a fair few drugstore conditioners that are CG friendly in Europe from Schwarzkopf, L'Oreal Elvive/ Elseve, Garnier, Inecto for co-washing.

L'Oreal use lots of ceramides and hydrolysed protein for damaged hair. Gliss Kur ultimate volume has hydrolysed protein and panthenol which is also good for damage.

There is nothing wrong in using silicones that resist building up if you are low pooing - amodimethicone, water soluble PEG-. That gives you more options. There is nothing 'fail' about low pooing, its permitted in the Curly Girl Handbook.

What strikes me is you are likely not using oils the best way for wavies, and not using a leave in conditioner. Are you using hydrolysed protein? This boosts wave and volume, patch repairs damage.

Why the egg and avocado? 20 minutes won't do anything except make washing your hair a challenge, and risk weighing hair down/ making it greasy. The right conditioner should weigh hair down less and be more effective at clumping, detangling, patch repairing damage.

As already stated penetrating oils like coconut need to be left many hours on dry hair to be of any use. You can do this daytime if you are staying home or night. I can't even tell its in if I do it right and I have chronic insomnia. I oil mostly the tail of a pony but also in sections and loosely bun with Spin Pins from a pound shop/ dollar store.

Oils can be left in as part of your leave in conditioner which makes distributing tiny amounts easier. Leave in conditioner can be mixed with flaxseed gel to make a curl cream (see Sciencey Hairblog). Xanthan gum can be used to make flaxseed harder hold and wave boosting.

Your plopping time is a long time for damaged ends that are probably overly porous but not protected by plenty of conditioner, that would cause frizz/ pouf/ straight underlayers for my colour damaged hair.

Ultimately you will probably have to live with less than great hair as you grow it out, especially if your roots are low porosity and/ or you can't find a way to do treatments properly.
Originally Posted by Firefox7275
I am planning to buy the Gliss ultimate volume conditioner. Before I have felt like conditioners with protein make my hair more strawy. But maybe it wasn't moisturizing enough. I am going to try again that too.

I haven't found any good leave-in! In finland we only have spritzs and creams that are full of silicone. Maybe I don't know what to search for. I've been using TN as both rinse-out and leave-in.

I just tried to heal my hair little bit with the DIY hairmask, because I've been blow-drying it two times a week lately. Maybe it wasn't the best idea..

Doesn't coconut oil weigh my curls down if I leave it for hours? I feel like it wouldn't come off with low-poo or CO-wash... I have pre-pood with coconut oil many times, but I didn't know I have to leave it so long, so I have been leaving it maybe for 2-3 hours.

Why plopping does that to porous hair? I didn't know that. What would be better?

Thank you, this helped me alot.

Any drugstore conditioner(which I can buy in Finland..) that is good for co-washing?
Still figuring out my properties.

Excuse my english, I am not a native speaker.

Last edited by amaree; 03-02-2014 at 12:22 PM.
@amaree You are washing most of the coconut oil out after 12-13 hairs so no your hair will not be weighed down.

Coconut oil penetrates hair strands if left on long enough and that time is around 13 hours.

I gave you the list of other oils - which you can use any off by the way - because you used oil as part of your styling routine. Very few people get away with using straight coconut oil in their hair as part of styling as they find it too heavy.

Anyway Firefox has written a detailed post about what you can do if you can't find a curl cream. She has also listed conditioners you can use to co-wash with.
My experiences with CG are always pleasant. Though it is a little hard to maintain the practice.
I really liked to know some specific conditioners, because I have a feeling that I will buy something that isn't right. There are so many Loreal Elvital and Garnier conditioners..
Still figuring out my properties.

Excuse my english, I am not a native speaker.
Hi amaree!

I'm a European curly as well, and you can order quite a few products on iHerb for not too much money. Shipping is very affordable as well. You might want to check it out.
F - LP - HD - NE
Fine, low porosity, high density, normal elasticity
Hairtype 2c

Low poo: Petal Fresh Organics Rosemary & Mint Volumizing Shampoo
Protein: IAGirl's gelatine treatment
Detangler & LI: KCKT
Styling: KCCC

Beauty Is Not a Number
Lauraimes, I am waiting for them to re-stock KCCC! Then I'll order that and KCKT. Maybe something else too, but KCCC is quite pricey, so I don't afford to go crazy.. I wish I could!
Still figuring out my properties.

Excuse my english, I am not a native speaker.
Lauraimes, I am waiting for them to re-stock KCCC! Then I'll order that and KCKT. Maybe something else too, but KCCC is quite pricey, so I don't afford to go crazy.. I wish I could!
Originally Posted by amaree
I'm waiting for that, too! I finally discovered, after an entire tub, how KCCC works for me. I liked it, but I couldn't get consistent results with it. Turns out that I have to apply it to damp hair as opposed to (soaking) wet, as most curlies do. I'm so impatient.

I love KCKT. I see it as a detangler that I can leave-in without weighing down my hair. I only need a pea-sized amount to detangle my entire hair. The consistency is really nice, as is the smell. I would not say that it is a leave-in perse though. Most people find it is not moisturising enough, and I can see why they think so. I use it primarily as a detangler.
F - LP - HD - NE
Fine, low porosity, high density, normal elasticity
Hairtype 2c

Low poo: Petal Fresh Organics Rosemary & Mint Volumizing Shampoo
Protein: IAGirl's gelatine treatment
Detangler & LI: KCKT
Styling: KCCC

Beauty Is Not a Number
I'm waiting for that, too! I finally discovered, after an entire tub, how KCCC works for me. I liked it, but I couldn't get consistent results with it. Turns out that I have to apply it to damp hair as opposed to (soaking) wet, as most curlies do. I'm so impatient.

I love KCKT. I see it as a detangler that I can leave-in without weighing down my hair. I only need a pea-sized amount to detangle my entire hair. The consistency is really nice, as is the smell. I would not say that it is a leave-in perse though. Most people find it is not moisturising enough, and I can see why they think so. I use it primarily as a detangler.
Originally Posted by Lauraimes
I am willing to use some time to know how my hair feels about KCCC and KCKT, I just hope it works for me! Do you have any euro-available product recommendations? Are you from UK or somewhere else? No need to answer in that question if you don't want to!
Still figuring out my properties.

Excuse my english, I am not a native speaker.
I'm from the Netherlands and I'm still looking for products that I really like, so other than KCCC and KCKT, I don't really have any recommendations yet.

I have used Curl Junkie products. I liked their Gentle Assurance Cleansing shampoo but it's not available right now due to some re-labelling thing in Europa. I still have quite a lot of their Beauticurls Argan & Olive Oil Conditioner left which is a great moisturiser, but my hair gets overconditioned so easily that I only use it occasionally.

I don't like Aubrey Organics GPB conditioner. It doesn't have slip for me and the protein in it are not absorbed by my hair. Also, I shed like crazy when I have used that so I would never recommend it.

Things I like are IAGirl's gelatine treatment (that's a protein treatment) and I like FSG, but I don't like it as much as KCCC.

I'm waiting to get some Jane Carter Solution products right now: the Nutrient Replenishing conditioner, which has some protein in it, and the Wrap & Roll mousse.

I am very picky when it comes to products though. I have fine hair so it looooves protein and it's tricky to find the right balance. It has low porosity which means that products tend to just sit on it. I cannot layer my products for this reason and I cannot use anything remotely on the heavy side. Ingredients like silicones and polyquats build up on my hair very easily, so I generally avoid them.

Have you ever checked out the Curly Emporium? I find the shipping charges too high, but they have a great selection of products available.
F - LP - HD - NE
Fine, low porosity, high density, normal elasticity
Hairtype 2c

Low poo: Petal Fresh Organics Rosemary & Mint Volumizing Shampoo
Protein: IAGirl's gelatine treatment
Detangler & LI: KCKT
Styling: KCCC

Beauty Is Not a Number
Thanks for your help

I believe that my virgin hair has low porosity and my lenght has high. It makes everything little bit more difficult. It's just so different hair!
Still figuring out my properties.

Excuse my english, I am not a native speaker.
Figuring out your properties can be quite a challenge. What has helped me is to observe my hair very closely and watch how it responds to products, ingredients and techniques.
F - LP - HD - NE
Fine, low porosity, high density, normal elasticity
Hairtype 2c

Low poo: Petal Fresh Organics Rosemary & Mint Volumizing Shampoo
Protein: IAGirl's gelatine treatment
Detangler & LI: KCKT
Styling: KCCC

Beauty Is Not a Number

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