I found something available on ground: Burt's Bees

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I completely understand. I guess for me, I see all that protein and would want to jump on it! Haha. I think you should take the risk!

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Lauraimes likes this.
High Porosity, Fine, Thin Density, Low Elasticity
Co-wash, leave in, and gel: Alba botanica coconut cond., ogx mousse, &/or super wet look gel.
Curls
Thanks for all the responses!

Wavydaze, I'm glad you gave me a context by comparing some low poos to CJ Gentle Cleansing Shampoo. We have soft water in the Netherlands, so that might explain why I like it so much. I'm really excited that you included the Original Sprout link because I spotted that brand on a website just last week. I checked it again and it sounds very promising. These are the Original Sprout Natural Shampoo ingredients:

Aqua [Water with Extracts of Organic Rosmarinus Officinalis (Rosemary) Leaf, Organic (Calendula) Officinalis Flower, Organic Vaccinium Macrocarpon (Cranberry) Fruit, Organic (Arnica) Montana Flower, Organic Cucumis Sativus (Cucumber) Fruit], Vegetable Glycerin, Sodium Methyl Cocoyl Taurate, Cocamidopropyl Betaine, Decyl Glucoside, Acrylates Copolymer, Cetyl Alcohol, Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride, Cinnamidopropyltrimonium Chloride, Sodium Hydroxide, Caprylyl Glycol, Disteareth-100 IPDI, Polyaminopropyl Biguanide, Caprylhydroxamic Acid, Parfum with Natural Extracts

It has no protein and no sulphates, but it does have Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride, which is a natural polyquat that might possibly be hard to remove. Still, it sounds like a gentle poo and I like the philosophy behind the brand. With this, I discovered a website called BeautyBay.com, which carries this for about €17 and no shipping costs.

As I was browsing there, I found another brand that might be interesting. It's called Estelle & Thild, and I am particularly interested in their baby shampoo:

aqua, citrus aurantium amara flower water*, sodium cocoamphoacetate, glycerin, lauryl glucoside, hydrolyzed wheat protein, sodium cocoyl glutamate, sodium lauryl glucose carboxylate, aloe barbadensis leaf extract*, cocobetaine, coco-glucoside, glyceryl oleate, citric acid, sodium benzoate, potassium sorbate.

* Ingredient from Organic Farming.

So now I'm considering these three. Just to complete the comparison with prices:

Burt's Bees Very Volumizing Pomegranate Shampoo: €12.99 for 295 ml (on ground)
Original Sprout Natural Shampoo: €16.90 for 354 ml (BeautyBay)
Estelle & Thild Baby & Child Shampoo: €17.20 for 200 ml (BeautyBay)

BeeMee, I definitely have to get their lemon butter cuticle cream someday - it smelled divine!

Samanthacurlz, the protein are definitely very appealing! I still haven't decided.
F - LP - HD - NE
Fine, low porosity, high density, normal elasticity
Hairtype 2c

Low poo: Weleda Oat Replenishing Shampoo
Protein: IAGirl's gelatine treatment
Detangler & LI: KCKT
Styling: KCCC

Beauty Is Not a Number

Last edited by Lauraimes; 03-05-2014 at 02:00 PM. Reason: Typo
Hmm you know what, I'm thinking of just getting it and see how it goes. Although the Original Sprout one is really tempting, it does not have protein and it has that natural polyquat. Estelle & Thild sounds tempting because it has protein and does not have the polyquat, but it is considerably more expensive. I think I'd prefer to try Burt's Bees first then. Perhaps my hair does not have any problems with this polyquat and then I'd finally have found something that I can get within a ten-minutes walk! The price is good, it has protein, and is CG. What more do I want?
F - LP - HD - NE
Fine, low porosity, high density, normal elasticity
Hairtype 2c

Low poo: Weleda Oat Replenishing Shampoo
Protein: IAGirl's gelatine treatment
Detangler & LI: KCKT
Styling: KCCC

Beauty Is Not a Number
I think if it's easier to get and cheaper over all you should definitely get it. Ordering things online and waiting for them is a pain.

I will say, not to make your decision harder, ha, that I've Original Sprout before and really loved it. It smells soooooo good. But, I don't know if it's CG and Burt's Bees obviously is and, at this point, it's a no brainier! I'd get the BB too!
Lauraimes likes this.
2C/3A, high porosity, low density, fine-medium

Low Poo: Jessicurl Gentle Cleansing Shampoo, Mop Top Gentle Shampoo
Clarify: Suave Naturals Daily Clarifying, KCCC
RO/CoWash: Mop Top Daily Conditioner, Suave Naturals Tropical Coconut
LI: KCKT
Stylers: AG re:coil, AG Beach Bomb, Mop Top Light Hold Anti-Frizz Gel, LA Looks Xtreme Sport
PT: Curl Junkie Repair Me, IAgirl's gelatin treatment (awesome!)

Hair LOVES proteins!
MeeBee, Original Sprout is CG as far as I can tell I just might try it sometime, because I am really curious about it. If it would have had protein, the decision would have been even harder, haha.
F - LP - HD - NE
Fine, low porosity, high density, normal elasticity
Hairtype 2c

Low poo: Weleda Oat Replenishing Shampoo
Protein: IAGirl's gelatine treatment
Detangler & LI: KCKT
Styling: KCCC

Beauty Is Not a Number
I think I would still pick the Giovanni BK&AO over the Original Sprout... And it's also significantly cheaper. But whichever you choose, let us know how it goes!
fine - low/normal porosity - medium density - normal elasticity.

Currently using:
Cowash: Cure Care diluted with water 1:1
RO: Cure Care, V05 Kiwi Lime
Styler: UFD CM (old formula), FSG + CNPF
PT: IAgirl's gelatine

Experimenting with: no guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride, gelatin gel

Recent findings: my hair likes Cure Care diluted with water as a cowash; does NOT like guar h.c.!

iherb discount code: CFN646
I just saw on the website that they have a baby shampoo as well, which has these ingredients:

aqua (water, eau), decyl glucoside, coco-betaine, lauryl glucoside, sucrose laurate, glycerin, parfum (fragrance), betaine, sodium cocoyl hydrolyzed soy protein, coco-glucoside, glyceryl oleate, sodium chloridexanthan gum, glucose, citric acid, glucose oxidase, lactoperoxidase, limonene.

So I did my research and this is what I found.

Decyl glucoside is a gentle non-ionic surfactant (source). The Natural Haven has a post that says that non-ionic surfactants generally speaking are gentle surfactants (source). Decyl glucoside has an alkaline pH of 7 to 9.5 so there should be something acidic to bring that down (source), and there is (citric acid).

Coco-betaine I haven't researched because I know it is a gentle surfactant and thanks to wavydaze I think I like it so much because we have soft water here.

Lauryl glucoside is a surfactant. Paula's Choice rates it as good. I found that it is a non-ionic surfactant, just like decyl glucoside (source).

Sucrose laurate is a naturally derived emulsifier (source)

Glycerin we are familiar with already and it hasn't really proven to be a problem for me in the past. Also, I will rinse out the shampoo so it's fine.

Betaine I couldn't find so my only source is Wikipedia, which says that it is "any neutral chemical compound with a positively charged cationic functional group." Not sure what that means.

Sodium cocoyl hydrolysed soy protein: the stuff my hair loves!

Coco-glucoside is another non-ionic surfactant (source).

Glyceryl oleate is a naturally derived emulsifier (source).

Sodium chloridexanthan gum --> looks to me that these are supposed to be two separate ingredients but I'm not sure. If so, then we're dealing with table salt and a thickening agent (based on Paula's dictionary).

Glucose is listed in that same dictionary as good and I don't really know of any instance in which it was damaging either.

Glucose oxidase "is an enzyme that catalyzes the oxidation of the sugar glucose to gluconic acid" (source) so that, then, together with the citric acid, makes up for the alkaline surfactant that's in it.

Lactoperoxidase gets "best" in Paula's dictionary. It's an enzyme with anti-bacterial properties, so I think it's a preservative?

Limonene is a fragrance listed as poor, but I've used so many products with this in it and never have found it troubling.

My conclusion then is that all the surfactants are gentle. I have not found any ingredients that will cause build-up for me - or at least not ones that I know of. It has some protein which is really nice. I think I'm going to pick up a bottle of this instead of the Very Volumizing Pomegranate shampoo.
F - LP - HD - NE
Fine, low porosity, high density, normal elasticity
Hairtype 2c

Low poo: Weleda Oat Replenishing Shampoo
Protein: IAGirl's gelatine treatment
Detangler & LI: KCKT
Styling: KCCC

Beauty Is Not a Number
read below
fine - low/normal porosity - medium density - normal elasticity.

Currently using:
Cowash: Cure Care diluted with water 1:1
RO: Cure Care, V05 Kiwi Lime
Styler: UFD CM (old formula), FSG + CNPF
PT: IAgirl's gelatine

Experimenting with: no guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride, gelatin gel

Recent findings: my hair likes Cure Care diluted with water as a cowash; does NOT like guar h.c.!

iherb discount code: CFN646

Last edited by wavydaze; 03-08-2014 at 02:04 AM.
read below:
fine - low/normal porosity - medium density - normal elasticity.

Currently using:
Cowash: Cure Care diluted with water 1:1
RO: Cure Care, V05 Kiwi Lime
Styler: UFD CM (old formula), FSG + CNPF
PT: IAgirl's gelatine

Experimenting with: no guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride, gelatin gel

Recent findings: my hair likes Cure Care diluted with water as a cowash; does NOT like guar h.c.!

iherb discount code: CFN646

Last edited by wavydaze; 03-08-2014 at 02:04 AM.
On the main BB website I was wondering why "Hair" wasn't a main category. It is hidden under "More." That may mean they're trying to phase out their haircare products? It seems like they have a lot of negative reviews, and they realized they messed up. Personally I thought their older formulas were much better, especially their conditioners.


Burt's Bees was bought out by Clorox circa 2007-ish, and many if not most of their products have been changing ever since.

Actually, I was appalled and surprised to find that Burt's Bees had whitening, yes whitening skincare. This is marketed to Asia only AFAIK and kept really hush in the US as it would not go over well on the shelves over there. Don't know about Europe. Across countries in Asia, whitening skincare products are the norm seemingly. And a so-called or used-to-be natural company like BB joining them.
fine - low/normal porosity - medium density - normal elasticity.

Currently using:
Cowash: Cure Care diluted with water 1:1
RO: Cure Care, V05 Kiwi Lime
Styler: UFD CM (old formula), FSG + CNPF
PT: IAgirl's gelatine

Experimenting with: no guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride, gelatin gel

Recent findings: my hair likes Cure Care diluted with water as a cowash; does NOT like guar h.c.!

iherb discount code: CFN646
I noticed that as well, wavydaze. It is a separate category on the British and the Swedish websites, for example, so not sure what it is supposed to mean.

And whitening skincare, wow. I cannot imagine that European laws would allow for that.
F - LP - HD - NE
Fine, low porosity, high density, normal elasticity
Hairtype 2c

Low poo: Weleda Oat Replenishing Shampoo
Protein: IAGirl's gelatine treatment
Detangler & LI: KCKT
Styling: KCCC

Beauty Is Not a Number
I can imagine. It still shocks me how "normal" it is viewed here. No one bats an eye.
fine - low/normal porosity - medium density - normal elasticity.

Currently using:
Cowash: Cure Care diluted with water 1:1
RO: Cure Care, V05 Kiwi Lime
Styler: UFD CM (old formula), FSG + CNPF
PT: IAgirl's gelatine

Experimenting with: no guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride, gelatin gel

Recent findings: my hair likes Cure Care diluted with water as a cowash; does NOT like guar h.c.!

iherb discount code: CFN646
Huh. I went to the Burt's Bees section again to check out the baby shampoo, and then I found another one next to it with these ingredients:

aqua (water, eau), decyl glucoside, carthamus tinctorius (safflower) oleosomes, glycerin, sodium cocyl hydrolyzed soy protein, aloe barbadensis leaf juice, coco-glucoside, glyceryl oleate, avena sativa (oat) kernel flour, aniba rosaeodora (rosewood) wood oil, coriandrum sativum (coriander) fruit extract, cedrus atlantica bark oil, prunus amygdalus dulcis (sweet almond) oil, xanthan gum, citric acid, glucose, sodium chloride, sodium benzoate, glucose oxidase, lactoperoxidase, linalool.

I think the one I researched today has more cleansing properties, which I might prefer with my low porosity hair that gets build-up easily. However, I was slightly tempted by this new one I found because it has protein higher up the list and because some aloe vera might be nice for conditioning.
F - LP - HD - NE
Fine, low porosity, high density, normal elasticity
Hairtype 2c

Low poo: Weleda Oat Replenishing Shampoo
Protein: IAGirl's gelatine treatment
Detangler & LI: KCKT
Styling: KCCC

Beauty Is Not a Number
Laura, something to think about when choosing a baby shampoo over one formulated for adults.... If it's marketed as tear-free, the pH has been altered to make it easy on the eyes /ocular mucosa. Tears (the non-stress sort) have a pH of 7, but human hair is happy in more of a 4.5 - 5.5 range. I've by no means made a survey of adult shampoo pH, but Natural Haven blog has a pH page. While the soap based shampoos have significantly higher pH, most regular commercial shampoos there have pH in the 5-6 range.
Lauraimes and laurabella like this.
CG since 11/2011
2c /3a F /Mii, low porosity

Summer Products /Routine:
Clarifying: ACV rinses, Suave Professional Men Deep Clean Peppermint
Low Poo: Renpure Luxurious Argan Oil
Co-washes: VO5 Kiwi Lime Squeeze or Strawberries & Cream
RO: VO5 KLS or S&C, Cure Care
LI (if needed): VO5 S&C, VO5 SC, Cure Care
Stylers: FSG, AIF,
Tresemme Flawless Curls Bouncy Curls gel
PT: IAGirl's (link) as needed
I did not know that, Geek_Chic, so thank you for pointing that out! It indeed says on the website and package picture that they are tear-free. I'm not sure what implications this has or what it will do to my hair, but in any case I might want to try the adult version and not the baby poo.
F - LP - HD - NE
Fine, low porosity, high density, normal elasticity
Hairtype 2c

Low poo: Weleda Oat Replenishing Shampoo
Protein: IAGirl's gelatine treatment
Detangler & LI: KCKT
Styling: KCCC

Beauty Is Not a Number
I did not know that, Geek_Chic, so thank you for pointing that out! It indeed says on the website and package picture that they are tear-free. I'm not sure what implications this has or what it will do to my hair, but in any case I might want to try the adult version and not the baby poo.
Originally Posted by Lauraimes
Happy to help, Laura. I didn't know that either starting out, and always thought of baby shampoos as "gentle". Anyway, I can't speak to your hair, but I have tried a sulfate free baby head to toe shampoo before (Disney Baby Daily Renewals Naturals Winnie the Pooh) when I ran out of my regular low poo. Wow, it left my hair feeling more stripped and tangled than a clarifying sulfate shampoo. My hair did feel ok again after a good moisturizing conditioner, but I stick to adult shampoos now.
Lauraimes likes this.
CG since 11/2011
2c /3a F /Mii, low porosity

Summer Products /Routine:
Clarifying: ACV rinses, Suave Professional Men Deep Clean Peppermint
Low Poo: Renpure Luxurious Argan Oil
Co-washes: VO5 Kiwi Lime Squeeze or Strawberries & Cream
RO: VO5 KLS or S&C, Cure Care
LI (if needed): VO5 S&C, VO5 SC, Cure Care
Stylers: FSG, AIF,
Tresemme Flawless Curls Bouncy Curls gel
PT: IAGirl's (link) as needed
I'm glad you gave me the heads up, Geek_Chic. I'm very tempted to get the Very Volumizing Pomegranate Shampoo. I would just love to be able to get something on ground instead of having to order everything. I might get the conditioner, too, since JCS conditioner was problematic for my skin.
F - LP - HD - NE
Fine, low porosity, high density, normal elasticity
Hairtype 2c

Low poo: Weleda Oat Replenishing Shampoo
Protein: IAGirl's gelatine treatment
Detangler & LI: KCKT
Styling: KCCC

Beauty Is Not a Number
Laura, something to think about when choosing a baby shampoo over one formulated for adults.... If it's marketed as tear-free, the pH has been altered to make it easy on the eyes /ocular mucosa. Tears (the non-stress sort) have a pH of 7, but human hair is happy in more of a 4.5 - 5.5 range. I've by no means made a survey of adult shampoo pH, but Natural Haven blog has a pH page. While the soap based shampoos have significantly higher pH, most regular commercial shampoos there have pH in the 5-6 range.
Originally Posted by Geek_Chic
I've thought about mentioning this, but from some of my previous research, I have not found that many shampoos are in the 5-6 range. In fact most were around 7. So what I'm trying to say is that it's not a guarantee that the Very Volumizing shampoo is actually going to be at a lower pH than the Baby one.

Though if you're interested Laura, I have emailed companies before to ask about the pH of their products.

From my experience, I have not found problems with hair products (especially shampoo) in the pH 7 range, though I try to stay away from anything higher than pH 7 so I don't use any soap-based hair products. Though I would prefer all my products to be at the hair/skin friendly pH, sometimes it's a tradeoff between gentleness of formulation and pH. In most cases would pick something gentler with a pH of 7 than something stronger with a pH of 5, but this can depend.

Also when companies say "pH balanced" that does not necessarily mean "hair/skin friendly pH of 4.5-5.5." That often means pH 7 which is "neutral" on the scale but not "neutral for the skin." Hope this helps.
Lauraimes likes this.
fine - low/normal porosity - medium density - normal elasticity.

Currently using:
Cowash: Cure Care diluted with water 1:1
RO: Cure Care, V05 Kiwi Lime
Styler: UFD CM (old formula), FSG + CNPF
PT: IAgirl's gelatine

Experimenting with: no guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride, gelatin gel

Recent findings: my hair likes Cure Care diluted with water as a cowash; does NOT like guar h.c.!

iherb discount code: CFN646
I have bought the Burt's Bees Very Volumizing Pomegranate Shampoo today. I'm really curious and I can't wait to wash my hair again! It has a sweet, subtle smell that I really like.
Fimu and MeeBee like this.
F - LP - HD - NE
Fine, low porosity, high density, normal elasticity
Hairtype 2c

Low poo: Weleda Oat Replenishing Shampoo
Protein: IAGirl's gelatine treatment
Detangler & LI: KCKT
Styling: KCCC

Beauty Is Not a Number
Washed my hair this morning. I love the smell. It does remind me of bubblegum a bit but I like sweet smells anyway, though I can imagine that some people mind fight it a bit too strong.

The consistency is really nice. It slightly thinner than most shampoos that I know, but not as thin as CJ Gentle Cleansing Shampoo. It distributes very easily so I don't need much.

After rinsing it out, my hair felt clean and not stripped at all. To me, this seems to be a nice, gentle low poo. So far the natural polyquat, Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride, does not seem to present any problems. My hair does not feel coated, nor does it frizz when wet.

Based on my first impressions, this low poo might be a keeper.
Geek_Chic, Fimu, sixelamy and 1 others like this.
F - LP - HD - NE
Fine, low porosity, high density, normal elasticity
Hairtype 2c

Low poo: Weleda Oat Replenishing Shampoo
Protein: IAGirl's gelatine treatment
Detangler & LI: KCKT
Styling: KCCC

Beauty Is Not a Number

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