You may want to avoid triETHANOLamine, depending on your hair type and sensitivities

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I'm sorry, but Wikipedia and answers.yahoo.com are not credible sources. Neither are reviews on a product page. Nor any listing for a product on any page. And an eZine article came from a hairdresser - John Massers is a widely recognized British hairdresser. Where are the scientists at? Because I surely don't see any.
Originally Posted by sixelamy
Cosmotogists count as scientists, and he was shown to be correct in the scientific study that further explains it in detail.

Yahoo answers quote was taken from someone with a scholar level and top contributor in chemistry
on the site. What he said was also verified in the scientific abstract i posted, and i have another credible quote from another doctor saying the same thing.

If a wikipedia article has sources from credible fact to back up what is being said, so it is credible. All the information gotten from there was backed up by credible sources sited at the end of the page.

Last edited by flowerpow; 04-01-2014 at 08:16 AM.
Where are the scientists at? Because I surely don't see any.
Originally Posted by sixelamy
Sorry, I don't count heresay on the internet as fact.
Originally Posted by sixelamy
Environmental working group, sourced from scientific data from the fda article and others.

http://ntp.niehs.nih.gov/ntp/htdocs/lt_rpts/tr449.pdf


About the author: FutureDerm.com is proud to introduce John Su on our staff as a Contributing Writer. John is an established skin care expert and aspiring dermatologist. He also runs a blog, The Triple Helix Liaison, dedicated to providing unbiased, meaningful, and insightful information about skin care.

FutureDerm - Is Ethanol in Skin Care Products Safe?

This is a scientific study

http://europepmc.org/articles/PMC2141169/pdf/341.pdf

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2141169/

This was written by chemist and databases.

Triethanolamine | 102-71-6

Wikipedia info sources

  1. Simond, M. R. (2012). Journal of Solution Chemistry 41: 130. doi:10.1007/s10953-011-9790-3.
  2. Matthias Frauenkron, Johann-Peter Melder, Günther Ruider, Roland Rossbacher, Hartmut Höke “Ethanolamines and Propanolamines” in Ullmann's Encyclopedia of Industrial Chemistry, 2002 Wiley-VCH, Weinheim doi:10.1002/14356007.a10_001
  3. Klaus Weissermel, Hans-Jürgen Arpe, Charlet R. Lindley, Stephen Hawkins (2003). "Chap. 7. Oxidation Products of Ethylene". Industrial Organic Chemistry. Wiley-VCH. pp. 159–161. ISBN 3-527-30578-5.
  4. Ashford’s Dictionary of Industrial Chemicals, third edition, 2011, page 9252
  5. Sohoni, S.; R. Sridhar, G. Mandal (1991). "Effect of grinding aids on the fine grinding of limestone, quartz and portland cement clinker". Powder Technology 67 (3): 277–286. doi:10.1016/0032-5910(91)80109-V.
  6. Hamilton TK, Zug KA (1996). "Triethanolamine allergy inadvertently discovered from a fluorescent marking pen". Am J Contact Dermat 7 (3): 164–5. doi:10.1016/S1046-199X(96)90006-8. PMID 8957332.
  7. Chu CY, Sun CC (2001). "Allergic contact dermatitis from triethanolamine in a sunscreen". Contact Dermatitis 44 (1): 41–2. PMID 11156016.
  8. Schmutz JL, Barbaud A, Tréchot P (2007). "[Contact allergy to triethanolamine in ear drops and shampoo]". Ann Dermatol Venereol 134 (1): 105. PMID 17384563.
  9. Gamer AO, Rossbacher R, Kaufmann W, van Ravenzwaay B (200. "The inhalation toxicity of di- and triethanolamine upon repeated exposure". Food Chem Toxicol 46 (6): 2173–83. doi:10.1016/j.fct.2008.02.020. PMID 18420328.
  10. Lessmann H, Uter W, Schnuch A, Geier J (2009). "Skin sensitizing properties of the ethanolamines mono-, di-, and triethanolamine. Data analysis of a multicentre surveillance network (IVDK*) and review of the literature". Contact Dermatitis 60 (5): 243–55. doi:10.1111/j.1600-0536.2009.01506.x. PMID 19397616.
  11. Stott WT, Radtke BJ, Linscombe VA, Mar MH, Zeisel SH (2004). "Evaluation of the potential of triethanolamine to alter hepatic choline levels in female B6C3F1 mice". Toxicol Sci 79 (2): 242–7. doi:10.1093/toxsci/kfh115. PMC 1592523. PMID 15056812.
  12. Libralato G, Volpi Ghirardini A, Avezzù F (2009). "Seawater ecotoxicity of monoethanolamine, diethanolamine and triethanolamine". J Hazard Mater 176 (1-3): 535–9. doi:10.1016/j.jhazmat.2009.11.062. PMID 20022426.

Last edited by flowerpow; 04-01-2014 at 08:31 AM.
Sorry, I don't count heresay on the internet as fact.

And no, cosmetologists do not count as scientists. They get courses for what they need to know. They are in no way a scientist.

Skin care expert and aspiring dermatologist? I'm sorry, but this is making me laugh, I can't come back to this thread.
Zeldahime likes this.
2c-3a - coarse - normal-high porosity - high density - growing out to donate

NP/LP: KMF Whenever Conditioner/ YTCucs
RO/LI: Sevi Pumpkin Seed DC / CJ Argan & Olive Oil, KCKT, YTBbs
DT: Coconut Oil + scalp massage
OIL/STYLER: SM Elixir / KCCC
COLOR: henna, amla & indigo

Last edited by sixelamy; 04-01-2014 at 08:32 AM.
Sorry, I don't count heresay on the internet as fact.

And no, cosmetologists do not count as scientists. They get courses for what they need to know. They are in no way a scientist.
Originally Posted by sixelamy
He has done research to support everything he by scientific study. He also, said the same thing as what the study implied, verifiable in the abstract. He didn't make up that information.
Not really about TEA, but where is the link to the study that said that lye relaxes are linked to cancer? When I did my own research a couple of months ago, everything I read said that using relaxers does not increase the likelihood of developing the disease. Just curious and would like to read it.
flowerpow likes this.

Hair: 3c/4a, low porosity, short
Regular Shampoo: SM Curl & Shine
Clarifying Shampoo: Giovanni Tea Tree Shampoo
Conditioners: Darcy's Botanicals Pumpkin Seed Moisturizing Conditioner, TGIN Honey Miracle Mask
Leave-ins: SM Coconut & Hibiscus Style Milk, B.A.S.K. Silk & Honey Latte Detangling Hair Milk
Oils: Coconut & Jojoba
Gels: Original Moxie Just Gel, Camille Rose Aloe Whipped Butter Gel
This thread makes my eyes hurt.

I have no knowledge about the science behind this. I'm not a scientist, or a chemist, and I couldn't tell you what is causing it. I could speculate, but that really wouldn't help.

I have done research (especially in Graduate School) and articles can be written with results that are not significant, or barely significant. I had to take two Research Methods courses just to be able to fully read and comprehend the scientific experiments we were studying. Like someone else pointed out, we can all look at these articles and interpret different things. So, what you are interpreting can be seen differently by someone else, regardless of who wrote it or did the experiment. Either way, best of luck to you! I hope you find out what is causing it.


3B, fine, normal porosity, high density, medium width and length
Conditioner: Tresemme Naturals, Trader Joe's Tea Tree Tingle
Co-Wash: As I Am Coconut Co-Wash
Leave in Products: As I Am Leave-In, SM Smoothie/Milk, KCKT, Giovanni Direct Leave-In
Air Dry

Looking for new products and methods to try!



Not really about TEA, but where is the link to the study that said that lye relaxes are linked to cancer? When I did my own research a couple of months ago, everything I read said that using relaxers does not increase the likelihood of developing the disease. Just curious and would like to read it.
Originally Posted by mandydc
Yes, yes it applies to TEA. Triethanolamine, a class of ethanolamines, a class of amino alcohol. It effects TEA the same because of the denaturing of the ethanolamine.

but where is the link to the study that said that lye relaxes are linked to cancer? When I did my own research a couple of months ago, everything I read said that using relaxers does not increase the likelihood of developing the disease. Just curious and would like to read it
Originally Posted by mandydc

Sodium hydroxide poisoning: MedlinePlus Medical Encyclopedia

http://nj.gov/health/eoh/rtkweb/documents/fs/1706.pdf

ATSDR - ToxFAQs™: Sodium Hydroxide

Sodium Hydroxide

"It has been stated that long term use of such products can be harmful as it is believed to enter the scalp through scalp lesions and burns.[6] A case report done by Kaur et al. showed deep seated staphylococcal infection related to usage of hair relaxers, especially in immuno-compromised individuals.[7] Another interesting conclusion carried out by Wise et al. was the increased risk of uterine leiomyomata associated with hair relaxers."

source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3746223/

"The main ingredient of "lye" relaxers is sodium hydroxide; no-lye relaxers contain calcium hydroxide and guanidine carbonate, and "thio" relaxers contain thioglycolic acid salts.[15] No-lye relaxers are advertised to cause fewer scalp lesions and burns than lye relaxers, but there is little evidence to support this claim."

"The stronger results for surgically confirmed uterine leiomyomata cases may be explained by the higher rates of uterine leiomyomata-related hysterectomy in the South,[50,51] the region in which the prevalence of hair relaxer use was greatest. "

source: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/759283

Last edited by flowerpow; 04-01-2014 at 08:53 AM.
This thread makes my eyes hurt.

I have no knowledge about the science behind this. I'm not a scientist, or a chemist, and I couldn't tell you what is causing it. I could speculate, but that really wouldn't help.

I have done research (especially in Graduate School) and articles can be written with results that are not significant, or barely significant. I had to take two Research Methods courses just to be able to fully read and comprehend the scientific experiments we were studying. Like someone else pointed out, we can all look at these articles and interpret different things. So, what you are interpreting can be seen differently by someone else, regardless of who wrote it or did the experiment. Either way, best of luck to you! I hope you find out what is causing it.
Originally Posted by DaniGirl88
So articles written by the fda and put on fda websites are unreliable?
British hairdressers or British stylists or British Cosmotogists ARE definitely not scientists.

In the UK anyone can set themselves up in the hair industry with no qualifications. They can then do one or more short courses to learn better technique.

(Even many medical doctors aren't scientists but that's a whole different argument. )

I've used Ecostyler gels and gels that have similar ingredients for many years. They haven't caused me any form of hair loss.

In fact my use of ecostyler gels have coincided with my hair growing normally.

According to your posts it must be a miracle product!

Nope it's absolutely nothing to do with the styling or cleaning or conditioning products I've used.

It coincided with the resolution of some of the medical issues I've had.

In your case the problems you are claiming i.e. small hairs growing on you scalp indicate you should run to a dermatologist.
Zeldahime and Jimipe like this.
Not really about TEA, but where is the link to the study that said that lye relaxes are linked to cancer? When I did my own research a couple of months ago, everything I read said that using relaxers does not increase the likelihood of developing the disease. Just curious and would like to read it.
Originally Posted by mandydc
There has only been one study done. The study is discounted due to it's research methods.
Not really about TEA, but where is the link to the study that said that lye relaxes are linked to cancer? When I did my own research a couple of months ago, everything I read said that using relaxers does not increase the likelihood of developing the disease. Just curious and would like to read it.
Originally Posted by mandydc
There has only been one study done. The study is discounted due to it's research methods.
Originally Posted by Blueblood
That was probably the study I ran across during my search.

OP - thanks, I'll take a look.
flowerpow likes this.

Hair: 3c/4a, low porosity, short
Regular Shampoo: SM Curl & Shine
Clarifying Shampoo: Giovanni Tea Tree Shampoo
Conditioners: Darcy's Botanicals Pumpkin Seed Moisturizing Conditioner, TGIN Honey Miracle Mask
Leave-ins: SM Coconut & Hibiscus Style Milk, B.A.S.K. Silk & Honey Latte Detangling Hair Milk
Oils: Coconut & Jojoba
Gels: Original Moxie Just Gel, Camille Rose Aloe Whipped Butter Gel
British hairdressers or British stylists or British Cosmotogists ARE definitely not scientists.

In the UK anyone can set themselves up in the hair industry with no qualifications. They can then do one or more short courses to learn better technique.

(Even many medical doctors aren't scientists but that's a whole different argument. )

I've used Ecostyler gels and gels that have similar ingredients for many years. They haven't caused me any form of hair loss.

In fact my use of ecostyler gels have coincided with my hair growing normally.

According to your posts it must be a miracle product!

Nope it's absolutely nothing to do with the styling or cleaning or conditioning products I've used.

It coincided with the resolution of some of the medical issues I've had.

In your case the problems you are claiming i.e. small hairs growing on you scalp indicate you should run to a dermatologist.
Originally Posted by Blueblood
Look at the title of this thread. Am i saying that everyone who uses the product is going to get bald spots? So because you haven't experienced it in your own unique hair type combination it doesn't exist?
claiming i.e. small hairs growing on you scalp
Originally Posted by Blueblood
I do not need to see a dermatogosit. When i said "smaller hair" I meant that my hair in that area is not as long as the others, because of the hair loss. It will obviously take time to catch up with the rest of the hairs, and is consistently growing. Also, The picture is right there. My hair is now extremely healthy, and once i eliminated TEA the increasing size of my bald spot stopped.
Not really about TEA, but where is the link to the study that said that lye relaxes are linked to cancer? When I did my own research a couple of months ago, everything I read said that using relaxers does not increase the likelihood of developing the disease. Just curious and would like to read it.
Originally Posted by mandydc
There has only been one study done. The study is discounted due to it's research methods.
Originally Posted by Blueblood
Please be specific about the research methods you are talking about. And no, there are more than one study.
If you just want to undermine what i am saying for the sake of it fine. But it's baseless. Don't come back if you don't want to, that doesn't really effect the legitamacy of what i am saying.
Originally Posted by flowerpow
No, I'm just tired of people coming on here spitting out false information with sources that are not credible in the least. A personal experience is just that. Don't try to back it up with reviews, and other hairdressers "opinions" saying they are from scientists, because hairdressers obviously got their Master's degree in scientific studies.
Zeldahime, twirlygranny and Jimipe like this.
2c-3a - coarse - normal-high porosity - high density - growing out to donate

NP/LP: KMF Whenever Conditioner/ YTCucs
RO/LI: Sevi Pumpkin Seed DC / CJ Argan & Olive Oil, KCKT, YTBbs
DT: Coconut Oil + scalp massage
OIL/STYLER: SM Elixir / KCCC
COLOR: henna, amla & indigo
Citing scientific studies means citing them directly, not through an intermediary. Otherwise, you're merely citing someone's interpretation of the studies.

Clearly not everyone who relaxes their hair will end up with bald spots. But they willl have relaxed hair. This is obviously not true of the vast majority of people who use Eco Styler gels. I didn't like them for other reasons, but they most certainly did not relax my hair.
3a/b, F, normal porosity

I've gotten my routine down to the bare essentials, finally
Wash: Suave Tropical Coconut
Leave-in: Suave Everlasting Sunshine, detangle with Denman brush
Gel: LAL Sport or Wet Look
Scrunch with flour sack towel, plop 10 minutes, air dry
Refresh with either plain water or Suave/water mix
If you just want to undermine what i am saying for the sake of it fine. But it's baseless. Don't come back if you don't want to, that doesn't really effect the legitamacy of what i am saying.
Originally Posted by flowerpow
No, I'm just tired of people coming on here spitting out false information with sources that are not credible in the least. A personal experience is just that. Don't try to back it up with reviews, and other hairdressers "opinions" saying they are from scientists, because hairdressers obviously got their Master's degree in scientific studies.
Originally Posted by sixelamy
Fine, I will site directly from the scientific abstracts themselves.
Citing scientific studies means citing them directly, not through an intermediary. Otherwise, you're merely citing someone's interpretation of the studies.

Clearly not everyone who relaxes their hair will end up with bald spots. But they willl have relaxed hair. This is obviously not true of the vast majority of people who use Eco Styler gels. I didn't like them for other reasons, but they most certainly did not relax my hair.
Originally Posted by CurlyInTheFog
That is exactly what i am saying. There are varying degrees in which relaxer effects hair types. Some hair types are really fragile. Yours is not, hence it will not effect you. I can also prove that the way a relaxer effect the hair relies directly on your type of hair.

And plenty of my sources are cited directly. I omited parts of explanation that suggested opinionated information. All of it is objective. Same with the stylist and dermatologist. They did their research and told the objective information, directly quotable from the primary sources, which i provided.

Also secondary sourced information is still reliable. Many news reporters secondarily source information. It is still reliable, because they have supported what they are saying by hard facts and proven, reliable studies, most from the FDA.

Last edited by flowerpow; 04-01-2014 at 09:12 AM.
This thread makes my eyes hurt.

I have no knowledge about the science behind this. I'm not a scientist, or a chemist, and I couldn't tell you what is causing it. I could speculate, but that really wouldn't help.

I have done research (especially in Graduate School) and articles can be written with results that are not significant, or barely significant. I had to take two Research Methods courses just to be able to fully read and comprehend the scientific experiments we were studying. Like someone else pointed out, we can all look at these articles and interpret different things. So, what you are interpreting can be seen differently by someone else, regardless of who wrote it or did the experiment. Either way, best of luck to you! I hope you find out what is causing it.
Originally Posted by DaniGirl88
So articles written by the fda and put on fda websites are unreliable?
Originally Posted by flowerpow
Depends on how the research was conducted. Also, depends on who wrote the article and how they interpreted the results. Then, it depends on how I interpret the results as a reader of the article. I can interpret it different than you, even though there statistics and numbers given. For me, it depends on how they arrived at those statistics and numbers. How was their sample determined? Is it a true experiment? What is the validity of their experiment? There so so many elements to a research study, that one little factor can render it invalid. Again, it all depends on the reader.


3B, fine, normal porosity, high density, medium width and length
Conditioner: Tresemme Naturals, Trader Joe's Tea Tree Tingle
Co-Wash: As I Am Coconut Co-Wash
Leave in Products: As I Am Leave-In, SM Smoothie/Milk, KCKT, Giovanni Direct Leave-In
Air Dry

Looking for new products and methods to try!




Depends on how the research was conducted. Also, depends on who wrote the article and how they interpreted the results. Then, it depends on how I interpret the results as a reader of the article. I can interpret it different than you, even though there statistics and numbers given. For me, it depends on how they arrived at those statistics and numbers. How was their sample determined? Is it a true experiment? What is the validity of their experiment? There so so many elements to a research study, that one little factor can render it invalid. Again, it all depends on the reader.
Originally Posted by DaniGirl88
Oh, okay. I have a direct quote that shows the study's legitamacy is correct. I will edit it in.

"Study participants reside in more than 17 states, with the majority residing in New York, California, Illinois, Michigan, Georgia, and New Jersey. The Institutional Review Board of Boston University Medical Center approved the study protocol."
source: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/759283

Last edited by flowerpow; 04-01-2014 at 09:16 AM.

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