my hair wont clump like it used to? :(

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OP frequently stands for 'original poster' and, on this site, 'over-proteined'.

GL. (Good luck
Chupie has a point there. Could there be build-up preventing moisture to get in the hairshaft? You might want to clarify first.

What helped me after I OP-ed (over proteined) my hair is a mixture of 3 tbsp cone free conditioner with 1 tbsp honey (mix this well) and AVG. I scrunch that in toweldry hair (you can even cover your scalp with it!) and put some wheat germ oil on the ends of my hair. Wheat germ oil contains a lot of good stuff and penetrates the hair.
Then I put on a shower cap and wait for an hour before rinsing thoroughly.

My hair looks fried and dry after OP-ing and this always makes my hair moisturized and clumpy.

2b-3a med-fine low porosity
Blog: KrullenWijzer.nl
Originally Posted by rapunzel4ever
Mmmm okay! So what should I use to clarify? Is the above recipe something that you used as a deep conditioner? If so I will defiantly give it a try next week when I wash my hair again
Originally Posted by shutupshelby
Yes, I use this recipe as a DT.
But without the wheat germ oil, I also use this recipe (CO+honey+AVG) as a moisturizing co-wash. Just be sure to use a light CO without protein, glycerin, shea butter when you use it for conditioner washing.

2b-3a med-fine low porosity
Blog: KrullenWijzer.nl
2B/C-3A) fine - low porosity
Routine:
Wash: Daily Fix,SMT, Kesham, Urtekram
RO: Motions CPR Li, Inecto Cocos co, AO GPB, KCTT
acv-rinse, sometimes honey-rinse
LI: coconut oil (winter), CJBC-LI
Styling: AVG, Etos Solid Power Gel, Taft gel, CJPP
, JCCC, BRHG
Plopping~Pixiecurl diffuse~clipping
KrullenWijzer.blogspot.nl
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,073
Idk, I wouldn't be so sure about being "over-proteinized"... when I use too much oil my hair separates and refuses to clump, and it can also get frizzy, this just happened yesterday when I used an "oil moisturizer" a bit too liberally as a LI. You mentioned using an oil as LI sometimes so it's my opinion that if the other advice still doesn't work for you that you use your oil very sparingly, like only in the ends.
Morgan_Adcock likes this.
I thought OP was original poster?

The pics are awesome! Makes me REALLY hesitate to use heat! I still have to color though Damn gray hairs!
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 279
I think some suggestions from type 4 hair folk would be extremely beneficial in this discussion. I have noticed that silicone conditioners clump the hair and make it looser and smoother. Heat protectors usually are heavy in silicones. If you have stopped using them, this could most certainly be responsible for your wooly hair having less weight necessary to clump. Your hair is a perfect photo documentary of what happens to borderline type 3c/4a hair without weight. I do believe you that your hair is highly conditioned as it does look like healthy natural 3c/4a hair. It just does not look like hair that has been sufficiently tamed for your tastes, by products appropriate for your hair type in the 2nd photo.

I have read some suggestions here that would work great for other hair types other than type 4 hair. Some of the suggestions I have read here will actually hurt type 4 hair, particularly if all used together. Please be careful with following some of these suggestions for your hair type. I actually recommend you consulting with a professional who has a similar hair type who will not inadvertently misguide you.

Last edited by dixygirl; 04-20-2014 at 09:00 AM.
Which suggestions will hurt or help? The thread has been up several days and I know I was hoping for more knowledgable input for the original poster.
2a medium porous, You can see my wavy tutorials here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...ZNxhBHSXAW40OQ and my wavy blog is The Wavy Nation http://wavynation.wordpress.com
I'm afraid I haven't been very clear to begin with. Morgan Adcock most likely meant Original Poster when she used the letters OP.

I never meant to suggest that the Original Poster over-protein-ed her hair, but just that the look of her hair reminded me of the way my hair looks when I over-protein-ed (OP-ed) mine. And when I did so, I needed a lot of moisturizing.
And since I think the OP needs a lot of moisture back in her hair, I suggested to try my favorite recipe.

I'm sorry my choice of words caused confusion..

2b-3a med-fine low porosity
Blog: KrullenWijzer.nl
Morgan_Adcock likes this.
2B/C-3A) fine - low porosity
Routine:
Wash: Daily Fix,SMT, Kesham, Urtekram
RO: Motions CPR Li, Inecto Cocos co, AO GPB, KCTT
acv-rinse, sometimes honey-rinse
LI: coconut oil (winter), CJBC-LI
Styling: AVG, Etos Solid Power Gel, Taft gel, CJPP
, JCCC, BRHG
Plopping~Pixiecurl diffuse~clipping
KrullenWijzer.blogspot.nl
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,073
I think some suggestions from type 4 hair folk would be extremely beneficial in this discussion. I have noticed that silicone conditioners clump the hair and make it looser and smoother. Heat protectors usually are heavy in silicones. If you have stopped using them, this could most certainly be responsible for your wooly hair having less weight necessary to clump. Your hair is a perfect photo documentary of what happens to borderline type 3c/4a hair without weight. I do believe you that your hair is highly conditioned as it does look like healthy natural 3c/4a hair. It just does not look like hair that has been sufficiently tamed for your tastes, by products appropriate for your hair type in the 2nd photo.

I have read some suggestions here that would work great for other hair types other than type 4 hair. Some of the suggestions I have read here will actually hurt type 4 hair, particularly if all used together. Please be careful with following some of these suggestions for your hair type. I actually recommend you consulting with a professional who has a similar hair type who will not inadvertently misguide you.
Originally Posted by dixygirl
The thing about hair is that nothing is really written in stone... You've seen what type of hair I have, yet I often do things that would not work for others of "my type" very successfully. Even though most of my hair is baby fine and colored, light COs for example, simply do not work for me, I actually need to "weigh" my hair down a little so it won't float into the stratosphere. My fave LI actually says it's for "very curly to kinky hair" and lately, because my hair is even more porous, I've had to be more liberal in the application whereas a year ago if I'd used that much it would've left my hair looking greasy. I mentioned before that I buy quite a few "ethnic" products precisely because they're richer. Of course, maybe I cannot apply as heavily as most 4s would, but the majority of 2s & other 3As could not touch those products with a 10 foot pole. The same goes for my choice of gel, I need one with good hold for the same reasons while other fine haired ladies go for lighter hold.

My point is that hair "type" alone does not determine the needs of any particular curl pattern, period. I read an article recently (which I could not find now...), that addressed things that are much more important than "type". And after an absence of 7 years from NC.com, I've noticed the number/letter system has been totally changed from what Andre Walker, the stylist who came up with it, intended (he had no 3C or 4C btw...), but he wrote the book in the '90s and that's been quite a while ago. I think that even the "new" classifications haven't helped because quite a few people in the 4 category take great offense at being "pushed" to the last number/letter, I've read many comments and angry tirades who place the typing into at least borderline racism when it's actually just a matter of "degree of curl", not of importance or anything.

So, each curly just needs to get to know her own hair very well and not get too hung up about hair type.
Zeldahime and Morgan_Adcock like this.

Last edited by CGSince2002; 04-20-2014 at 09:49 PM.
I actually recommend you consulting with a professional who has a similar hair type who will not inadvertently misguide you.
I think this advice is good in principle, but my experience has been that almost all hair professionals who have hair like mine are in denial. I'm reminded, in particular, of one "master stylist" with very curly hair who just couldn't seem to get what I meant when I told her I was always going to wear my hair curly. She'd always insist on taking the curl out, then adding artificial curl back to it, using a curling iron. I found it very distressing partially because I wanted to learn from her how to style my hair better, and also because she burnt off a rather large clump of hair one day when someone asked her a question while she had the curling iron in my hair. Fortunately, not too long after that incident, I learned about Curly Girling, and started getting Deva cuts.

OTOH, my current stylist has a stronger curl pattern than I do, but is brilliant at cutting and styling other types of curls.
CGSince2002 likes this.
Peace,
Morgan

Baby Fine 3B, low porosity, normal density and elasticity
CGing since July 2008
@dixygirl the original poster didn't use heat protector when straightening.

The only things that are missing from the suggestions are things like attempting the LOC method or not just using oil at all in styling i.e. using a leave-in followed by a gel. Doing styles like twist outs or braid outs to get more uniform curls.

Unfortunately like everything suggested it requires experimentation as every head of hair mixed with weather and water conditions is different.
Hair properties are more important than curl pattern. The OP looks to be 3c, but I find it hard to tell without seeing a dry hair photo. Her hair looks as if it needs more moisture so the curls would be more defined. I would also recommend a gel and going CG as well as a hair analysis. Her hair looks to be medium texture so a mix of protein and emollients would probably be beneficial.

Not all 2s have fine hair; many have medium and/or coarse hair so most advice for type 2 hair wouldn't work for them. Most type 4s don't have coarse hair, especially 4a, yet most information says this type is coarse. Type 4 hair tends to be naturally dryer than other types regardless of texture. However, many types who have the same properties but different curl patterns use the same products without any problems.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using CurlTalk App
SereneCurls and CGSince2002 like this.
3b/c, medium-coarse, low porosity, high density
HG: Jessicurl Too Shea and Kinky Curly Curling Custard
Shampoo: nonsulfate shampoo and Suave Naturals sulfate shampoo when needed
Hi guys, I was the one who originally posted that thread but i forgot my password and ended up having to make another account sorry guys for abandoning you and i deeply appreciate all your answers..

As an update
ive tried deep conditioning (using naptural85's recipe)
and today i did my monthly shampoo

ive seen a small difference from using the deep conditioner and my curls seemed more defined and healthy but still did not clump the way it used to in my first picture of my previous post..

also

like another curlysister mentioned, it is possible that my hair wont clump like this anymore because i no longer use silicone conditioner after i found out it wasnt good for your hair, which is a bummer because id love to get my bouncy clumps back

any more suggestions would be deeply appreciated, thanks guys
You can always try your old stuff if you want to see but also it may take a bit fore your hair to improve. It's not really an "all done" kind of thing. If you are seeing improvement YAY! and keep going.
I read that some curlies go back to cones because it just works better for them. For example, if you live in a place with high dews, cones may work as good anti-humectants.

But if you don't want to go back to the harsh SLS shampoos, you can try one with Sodium Coco Sulfate, like Yes to Carrots. But maybe you also find that too harsh.

source: other CurlTalk topics
Henna'd ✩ Waist-length (wet) ✩ Loose 3b ✩ High density
Very coarse & medium ✩ Kinkings ✩ Porous below shoulders: sun & old heat damage ✩ Low elasticity (wet)


Climate
Dew: 30s F
80-100% humidity

Clarify: YTCar poo
Low poo: Harmonie Familie
Co-wash&RO: Argan Care
Protein: Schwarzkopf Anti-klit
Styling LI: e.g. YTTom
Seal: sweet almond oil
Pre-wash: coconut + EVOO

: oils, dew = 50-60s F + 50-70% humidity, CG
: salt water, rain, high humidity, 'cones

Last edited by Fimu; 05-01-2014 at 01:18 AM.
You can always dilute sulphate shampoo. Not cg but not as much sulfate over kill. Still cleans and gets out cones.
2a medium porous, You can see my wavy tutorials here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...ZNxhBHSXAW40OQ and my wavy blog is The Wavy Nation http://wavynation.wordpress.com
Yess I used to use the tresemme conditioner not any shampoo because it's drying to my hair! But I will see if I still have my old conditioner and give it a try when I wash again next Wednesday!
To the OP, when was the last time you trimmed you hair? The longest I can go without a trim is 5-6 months then my hair won't clump as well like you described. Also I used flaxseed gel for enhanced clumping and definition.
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 279
I agree with everybody. Go back to them and IF you ever feel they are too heavy use 1/2 conditioner and 1/2 shampoo. I NEVER feel they are too heavy for my bushy, dry hair. But that's just me.
I agree with everybody. Go back to them and IF you ever feel they are too heavy use 1/2 conditioner and 1/2 shampoo. I NEVER feel they are too heavy for my bushy, dry hair. But that's just me.
Originally Posted by dixygirl
Do you use silicone conditioners as well?
To the OP, when was the last time you trimmed you hair? The longest I can go without a trim is 5-6 months then my hair won't clump as well like you described. Also I used flaxseed gel for enhanced clumping and definition.
Originally Posted by Jeliah
I last trimmed In December and yes I may have to trim next month too!

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