my hair wont clump like it used to? :(

Like Tree22Likes

Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 279
I agree with everybody. Go back to them and IF you ever feel they are too heavy use 1/2 conditioner and 1/2 shampoo. I NEVER feel they are too heavy for my bushy, dry hair. But that's just me.
Originally Posted by dixygirl
Do you use silicone conditioners as well?
Originally Posted by IVacurls
I use nothing but silicone conditioners and apHogee, oils and moisturizers. I NEVER shampoo, I only cowash personally.
My hair is the longest it has ever been and feels the best ever. My hair NEVER grew past shoulder length before. Now that I am on this regimen, I am past bra strap length and praying for a lot more length finally in my life!
PS Hair being weighed down by a just a rinse out conditioner is a total non issue with bushy,dry hair like I have, That affects other folk. Hell, my hair does its BEST leaving in thick coconut oil, olive oil, silicone conditioner AND glycerine! : And I have fine, thin hair. REALLY!

AND now that I am on this regimen, my hair feels the moistest EVER! So really, you've got to do what will work for YOUR type of hair!

Last edited by dixygirl; 05-01-2014 at 05:45 PM.
I agree with everybody. Go back to them and IF you ever feel they are too heavy use 1/2 conditioner and 1/2 shampoo. I NEVER feel they are too heavy for my bushy, dry hair. But that's just me.
Originally Posted by dixygirl
Do you use silicone conditioners as well?
Originally Posted by IVacurls
I use nothing but silicone conditioners and apHogee, oils and moisturizers. I NEVER shampoo, I only cowash personally.
My hair is the longest it has ever been and feels the best ever. My hair NEVER grew past shoulder length before. Now that I am on this regimen, I am past bra strap length and praying for a lot more length finally in my life!
PS Hair being weighed down by a just a rinse out conditioner is a total non issue with bushy,dry hair like I have, That affects other folk. Hell, my hair does its BEST leaving in thick coconut oil, olive oil, silicone conditioner AND glycerine! : And I have fine, thin hair. REALLY!

AND now that I am on this regimen, my hair feels the moistest EVER! So really, you've got to do what will work for YOUR type of hair!
Originally Posted by dixygirl
Wow! I had no idea that curly hair can still growth despite using silicones I might go back to my old conditioner and see how the results are!
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 279

Do you use silicone conditioners as well?
Originally Posted by IVacurls
I use nothing but silicone conditioners and apHogee, oils and moisturizers. I NEVER shampoo, I only cowash personally.
My hair is the longest it has ever been and feels the best ever. My hair NEVER grew past shoulder length before. Now that I am on this regimen, I am past bra strap length and praying for a lot more length finally in my life!
PS Hair being weighed down by a just a rinse out conditioner is a total non issue with bushy,dry hair like I have, That affects other folk. Hell, my hair does its BEST leaving in thick coconut oil, olive oil, silicone conditioner AND glycerine! : And I have fine, thin hair. REALLY!

AND now that I am on this regimen, my hair feels the moistest EVER! So really, you've got to do what will work for YOUR type of hair!
Originally Posted by dixygirl
Wow! I had no idea that curly hair can still growth despite using silicones I might go back to my old conditioner and see how the results are!
Originally Posted by IVacurls
Despite??? Try BECAUSE OF !!! On the Long Hair Community Forum where women have hair down below their hips, silicones are VERY popular. Also, Teri LaFlesh, who wrote Curly Like Me uses silicones and has hair down to her crotch. The anti silicone propaganda for curlies is bc they weigh down/loosen the curls imho. (Loose curls are not good for curly business. But PROTECTED hair is very good for LONG HAIR business!)
I have posted on here the articles by scientists that silicone does NOT dry out hair. It coats it like hydrophobic sebum that dry hair lacks, seals IN moisture, and buffers it from breakage. The scientists directly say you are being LIED TO in the articles I posted

My hair takes forever to dry lately. Feels moist almost 24 hours after a wash!
http://thebeautybrains.com/2010/05/0...-dry-out-hair/
Real beauty scientists adamantly disagree that silicone dries the hair in any way shape or form!
http://thebeautybrains.com/2006/10/0...for-long-hair/
http://thebeautybrains.com/2007/02/1...uffocate-hair/

Last edited by dixygirl; 05-01-2014 at 07:54 PM.
I think some silicones are probably fine. In not sure silicone in every product you use or at the top of the ingredient list is so hot. And everyone's hair is different. I've seen some people go back to silicone product and have great results and to others it proves to be worse.
dixygirl and Jimipe like this.
You can see my wavy tutorials here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...ZNxhBHSXAW40OQ and my wavy blog is The Wavy Nation http://wavynation.wordpress.com
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 279
correct Chupie. I think the general rule is if your hair produces a lot of sebum you should AVOID silicones if you want tighter curls. If your hair never seems oily from sebum, seems dry always, or you like less shrinkage, you will enjoy silicones.

Last edited by dixygirl; 05-01-2014 at 09:26 PM.
Wow I learned a lot about cones . Maybe I gotta try them too since I don't mind weighing-down that much.
But indeed, I noticed that a lot of curlies with hip-length hair or beyond use the non water-soluble cones.
Maybe a lot curlies also avoid non-soluble cones because you may have to use sulfates again.

For the cone users: at which dews do you benefit the most of the cones?

@dixygirl: so you even don't get cone buildup when you only co-wash?? does your co-wash also contain cones?

//Signature for smartphones:
loose 3b | waist length | both fine & thick texture? | med-high density | porous ends | transitioning from 2 yr old heat-damage
dixygirl likes this.
CG, Waist-length when wet, loose 3b w/ 3c napes, high density, kinking hair
Climate: dew = 40 - 60 F, 70-95% humidity
Goal: reduce tangles and flyaways

Clarify: YTCar poo
Low poo: Harmonie Familie
Co&RO: Argan Care
LI: Andrelon Zijdeglans & Zen + YTC (orange sticker)
Sealant: sunflower oil
Protein RO: Schwarzkopf anti-klit Co
Pre-wash: coconut or olive oil

: coconut oil, wash days, dew = 50s, 50-70% humidity
: rain, high humidity, cones or humectants?

Last edited by Fimu; 05-02-2014 at 02:03 AM.
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 279
Hi Fimu,
My hair may be totally different than yours. I don't know. But YES, I co wash sometimes with Hello Hydration Conditioner which has silicones. Other times I use cream rinse conditioners which usually have some type of silicone also! I NEVER use shampoo. My hair NEVER feels any build up that is undesirable. It feels soft, moist, well conditioned. When I do not use silicones, my gray hairs feel wiry, dry, bushy, unruly, crispy, crunchy even. I do have fine hair that is thin and they still do not weigh my hair down. WHY? because a rinse out conditioner is nothing to my hair. I use coconut oil as a leave in and that does not weigh my hair down provided I do not use too much. So a leave in conditioner CERTAINLY can not weigh down my hair.

If your curls are looser than mine or you have a really oily scalp you may feel totally differently than I do. But my tight, dry, 3b curls laugh at even leaving in a silicone conditioner and ask me to leave in some coconut oil too please
My hair is chronically DRY.My scalp produces NO OILY SEBUM at all. I NEVER have any issue with my scalp naturally getting oily. Quite the contrary, my problem would be my hair looking too BUSHY. So my hair LOVES silicone conditioners and feels the best ever. It feels less big and bushy, less shrinkage of curls, less dryness of hair. The only thing that makes my hair feel coated is gel or hair spray PERIOD. I can rarely leave in too much oil because I know how much to use for my hair and my hair likes the sensible amount of oil I leave in.

But people have totally different issues. If you are asking about buildup, you may be someone who has a problem with your own scalp producing too much oil. I don't. That is a non issue for me. Some people have problems with their hair having loose waves that they want to shrink smaller to be tight curls. They will not like silicones. Some people have naturally overly silky or greasy hair all the time. They will not like silicones. Some people's hair get limp and greasy even without putting anything on it. They will also not like silicones. If you condition with oils but have to WASH THEM OUT.... you can not deal with a silicone either.

For other people like me, I LIKE my hair weighed down some so it looks more tame and pleasing to me. I like it less bushy. I like it less dry. I like LEAVING IN OILS. I do not need to wash out oils unless you just put a ridiculous amount. If I do not put in a bit of oil after a cowash, my hair may feel like it can snap sometimes. That has been the case with my hair since I was a child with virgin hair. So I also like leaving in silicones ALWAYS and NEVER want to wash them out PERIOD! It is that simple and I think that is an even better rule.

IF you can leave in oil in your hair, you will probably be able to co wash with silicones and ask for more. You will NEVER see any reason to remove them because your hair will feel even better than ever to you. Maybe you will not have to leave in as much oil if you cowash and leave in silicone conditioner instead!

If you are the type who can NOT apply oil to your hair and leave it in, don't even think about silicones.
But just as curl patterns can look totally different (ranging from kinks to stick straight), hair needs can be totally contradictory to each other. That is OK. What works for me, works for ME. What works for you, works for YOU. Just do you and don't knock the next guy for needing something different than you. Then everyone can be happy.
So Fimu dear, I don't know where your hair is on that extremely broad spectrum. Only you can figure that out by experimenting. Perhaps some of the hints I have given above will give you some idea what YOUR hair will like so you can make a hair prescription that will work just for you! But never believe people that say that this works for everyone's hair or that works for everyone's hair. Such a plan does not exist because hair needs are so different
Best wishes finding what will work just for YOU friend.

PS : I have not figured out if dew points figure into the equation for me yet because I have been cowashing only with silicone for over a year and a half consistently. Sorry, I don't know that answer. I have not altered my regimen for different dew points. I would think that silicone will help to make a protective mantle against the environment and make the hair more resistant to subtle variations in atmospheric issues.
CGSince2002 likes this.

Last edited by dixygirl; 05-02-2014 at 06:43 AM.
Wow! I had no idea that curly hair can still growth despite using silicones I might go back to my old conditioner and see how the results are!
Originally Posted by IVacurls
Silicones are not bad per se, and will not stop hair growth. If following a CG routine they build up fast.

For me silicone build up presents itself not in the typical greasy/gunky fashion, but causes my hair to be very frizzy and dull. It will tangle and matte very easily as well and for me does seem to prevent any other kind of moisture and/or conditioner from absorbing.

It all depends on how your hair reacts to it. I tried a modded CG with silicones for about 3 yrs with no success. Others on here use a modded CG routine on here with silicones with great success. It's just a matter of trial and error.
Jimipe likes this.
Very fine, high porosity, currently dyed and growing out the relaxed portions. I'm pretty sure my hair's 3b something IIRC. We will be finding out for sure as time goes by.

It's official: My hair just loves Shea Moisture. I use a mixture of products from the Raw Shea Butter, African Black Soap, and Coconut & Hibiscus lines.
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 279
Wow! I had no idea that curly hair can still growth despite using silicones I might go back to my old conditioner and see how the results are!
Originally Posted by IVacurls
Silicones are not bad per se, and will not stop hair growth. If following a CG routine they build up fast.

For me silicone build up presents itself not in the typical greasy/gunky fashion, but causes my hair to be very frizzy and dull. It will tangle and matte very easily as well and for me does seem to prevent any other kind of moisture and/or conditioner from absorbing.

It all depends on how your hair reacts to it. I tried a modded CG with silicones for about 3 yrs with no success. Others on here use a modded CG routine on here with silicones with great success. It's just a matter of trial and error.
Originally Posted by Zeldahime
My hair is the opposite. My hair gets frizzy and dull if I go a month with NO silicone products. I HAVE TRIED to go off of silicones. I washed them out. Then started using non silicone products and my hair looked dull and frizzy WITHOUT silicone conditioner. The minute I start using silicone conditioner again, my hair gets silkier. The scientists say silicones are designed ONLY to give SHINE and make hair SLEEK and serve as ANTI FRIZZ weighty products like an oil substitute. So it would not make sense that they would make hair dull or frizzy at all since their only functions are to provide shine and sleekness. Also on my cowashed only DRY, curly hair, they do not build up at all. Gels and hairsprays build up on my hair. But everyone's hair is totally different and opposite. I can not deny your experience. I can just say my experience is the complete opposite. My experience is totally consistent with what scientists say as opposed to contradictory to what scientists say.

.
PS:Zeldahime, looking at your hair in the avatar at your beautiful loose curls are and how silky they look, I can totally see that you are not a candidate for silicones at all. I can see that they WOULD be too much for your hair. I could see that your hair would not have a hope of retaining any curl at all if it was even slightly weighted by silicone. So I congratulate your personal decision to not use them. It is all about what you want and what your hair needs to give you that.

Last edited by dixygirl; 05-05-2014 at 03:05 AM.
Wow guys! I've learned so much! :,) thanks! But how does everyone even know when they're hair is buildup? Are there signs?
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 279
they have said it feels weighed down
Wow guys! I've learned so much! :,) thanks! But how does everyone even know when they're hair is buildup? Are there signs?
Originally Posted by IVacurls

With my hair being weighed down is not a sign. The only thing that can weigh my hair down is over conditioning and it takes a lot to get there. For me the signs of build up is frizz and poofiness. Also my hair will stop absorbing products and stylers that worked before will seem like they do nothing. That's my cue to clarify.
testimony777 likes this.
Very fine, high porosity, currently dyed and growing out the relaxed portions. I'm pretty sure my hair's 3b something IIRC. We will be finding out for sure as time goes by.

It's official: My hair just loves Shea Moisture. I use a mixture of products from the Raw Shea Butter, African Black Soap, and Coconut & Hibiscus lines.
So i think I will try my old conditioner, im very nervous I haven't used it in over a year. Hopefully i will be able to see my old clumped hair again !! :,D 🙀😓
Zeldahime likes this.

Last edited by IVacurls; 05-03-2014 at 06:47 AM.
Wow guys! I've learned so much! :,) thanks! But how does everyone even know when they're hair is buildup? Are there signs?
Originally Posted by IVacurls
Generally if I style my hair and it looks or feels "funny" then I have build up.

Funny looking means my hair isn't clumping and curling right. It can actually take a couple of days before it decides just not to clump.

Funny feeling is when I touch my hair and it feels yucky. For example non-water soluble cones make my hair feel like it has a plastic coating on it when it's wet.
CGSince2002 likes this.
Now that I think about it.. I don't really "clarify" my hair. I honestly thought when people "clarified" they were just shampooing like normal. I just took a look at my shampoo (Shea moisture curl and shine) and I'm pretty sure it's not a clarifying shampoo.

Man this is really hard D,:
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 279
As someone posted elsewhere, some people are programmed to expect the hair to have a squeaky clean stripped feeling when wet. This is why the hair just doesn't feel clean to them when they co wash because it does not leave the hair devoid of all oils What silicones intentionally adds to the hair is a slippery feeling when wet. You may describe that as feeling as if it is coated with plastic, others who LIKE the feeling describe it simply as SLIP.

So we see biases everywhere. But yes, do what gives you the feeling you prefer. With some who suffer with hour long de tangling sessions, this slip is a God send. Those who do not suffer with hour long de tangling sessions are generally the same ones who like a squeaky stripped feeling to the hair. So we see how the hair spectrum is SO broad with people that have issues others can't even imagine nor begin to comprehend. Try to remember that and do not insist everyone does what works for you because everyone does not have your hair or its issues. They may have entirely different hair with totally antithetical issues.
Ivacurls I am hearing you miss the slip and clumping. I for one say go for it and try what used to give you joy. It is YOUR hair and you know what you like about it. Someone else would dislike what you like about your hair, but you know what, they don't have to wear your hair. YOU DO!

ETA A lot of people don't ever clarify their hair. I have dry hair, when I did clarify it, my hair felt destroyed, dry as the Sahara dessert and I had breakage from stripping it that much. Again, everyone's hair is different and has different needs. If Sue's hair is flat and prone to being greasy and Jane's hair is dry and puffy, they have different hair regimens for a reason. If Sue followed Jane's regimen, her hair would be destroyed and vice versa.

Last edited by dixygirl; 05-03-2014 at 09:21 AM.
If your hair is frizzy when wet, that's a sure sign that you have buildup. Also, not being able to get moisture (water) into your hair, for instance to refresh the curl, without using some form of shampoo (which would include "cleansing conditioners" with certain non-sulfate surfactants) is a sign that your hair has a serious layer of water impervious material(s) on it.
Peace,
Morgan

Baby Fine 3B, low porosity, normal density and elasticity
CGing since July 2008
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 279
Not necessarily.
As you see here in this video of 4a hair being shampooed detangeled etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vPCIfhgiw0
Often 4a-c hair grows naturally not clumping or frizzy at the root with no build up whatsoever. In fact as a hairstylist, I can tell you that often 4 hair does not clump naturally. It just naturally grows that way.
Often you see clumping on 4 hair more on the ends which has experienced some heat damage which causes a slight loosening of the pattern allowing easier clumping in my experience. Silicones can also assist 4s to clump

I am not saying that no 4s clump naturally. I am just saying your "rule" that frizz=build up, does not necessarily apply in the 4 category as some are simply born that way with naturally woolly/non clumping hair. Certain things can be done to assist it to clump more than it would naturally. But that type of hair in its virgin state can be naturally frizzy/wooly with zero product buildup
testimony777 likes this.

Last edited by dixygirl; 05-03-2014 at 12:58 PM.
I don't use silicones now that I'm natural & my hair is growing.
dixygirl likes this.

Trending Topics


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:13 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2011 NaturallyCurly.com