dimethicone

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  • 1 Post By Firefox7275
  • 1 Post By BotticelliBrit
  • 4 Post By butter52
  • 1 Post By BotticelliBrit

OK, I think I am no longer CG
I've given in and gone back to the only shampoo which ever soothed my scalp, it contains dimethicone (I'll leave the ingredients at the end for anyone who's interested). So with that fail in mind, can anyone reccommend a good shampoo to use to remove the dimethicone? I am thinking about using my favourite shampoo once every other wash, then using the clarifying one inbetween? Would that be suitable? So I usually wash every 5-6 days (that might down now I am no longer CG though So I'd use favourite on day 5, clarifying on day 10, and repeat.
Does that sound OK?
Thanks everyone!!!

Aqua, sodium laureth sulphate, coco-betaine, dimethicone, distearyl ether, behenyl alcohol, sodium chloride, sodium methylparaben, sodium hypochlorite, sodium hydroxide, ppg-5-ceteth-20, selenium sulfide, benzyl alcohol, carbomer, citric acid, butylphenyl methylpropional, laureth-2, hexyl cinnamal, parfum
Do I take it you have seborrhoeic dermatitis?

I wouldn't bother with a clarifier at this point, just enjoy that shampoo. It may well be the dimethicone will not build up due to the sulphate surfactants in the formula.
chupie likes this.
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,073
I really cannot understand how a shampoo with dimethicone can be soothing to your scalp when I've found it irritating to my scalp and know that it has given others itchy scaling similar or worse than dandruff. I, in fact, had a similar condition when I went CG but my COs had TTO and other EOs so my scalp soon calmed down. And at other times, through the years, when the condition recurred for any reason, either vinegar rinses or better yet, borax rinses healed my scalp.

So, if when you were CG you had a problem, it must've been that whatever products you were using also irritated your scalp. Idk your history nor what you have tried before so all I can do is speculate but thinking of the simple bio-chemistry of our skin and its needs I simply cannot imagine that something laden with certain chemicals (= your shampoo) is going to really be better for your scalp, but good luck anyway.
I really cannot understand how a shampoo with dimethicone can be soothing to your scalp when I've found it irritating to my scalp and know that it has given others itchy scaling similar or worse than dandruff. I, in fact, had a similar condition when I went CG but my COs had TTO and other EOs so my scalp soon calmed down. And at other times, through the years, when the condition recurred for any reason, either vinegar rinses or better yet, borax rinses healed my scalp.

So, if when you were CG you had a problem, it must've been that whatever products you were using also irritated your scalp. Idk your history nor what you have tried before so all I can do is speculate but thinking of the simple bio-chemistry of our skin and its needs I simply cannot imagine that something laden with certain chemicals (= your shampoo) is going to really be better for your scalp, but good luck anyway.
Originally Posted by CGSince2002
Possibly for exactly the same reason borax (harsh and stripping, no evidence of healing powers) seems effective for you. Dandruff is not a medical condition, it is a lay term used to describe a number of flaky or itchy scalp disorders with very different aetiology.

Research suggests some react negatively to components of their own sebum (oleic acid, tho there may be others) so cleansing that away will reduce that specific aspect of the irritation.

Furthermore with seborrhoeic dermatitis (anything from very mild greasy 'dandruff' to severe) saturated fatty acids in the sebum feed malassezia yeast, which proliferates releasing yet more oleic acid as a waste product. The body can respond to this irritation by pumping out yet more sebum further increasing the concentration oleic acid .... vicious cycle.

Strong surfactants or alkaline agents (borax, baking soda, traditional soaps) not only strip away the sebum, temporarily removing the food source. They also loosen the 'grip' the skin flora (good and bad guys) have on the skin massively reducing the population of malassezia yeast.

No yeast/ no sebum = no irritation. There may be irritation from the surfactants or alkaline agents but this can be substantially less than the irritation from the oleic acid. You will note that the vast majority of commercial dandruff shampoos contain a harsh sulphate surfactant plus some form of anti fungal to manage the yeast population. In many cases IMO this is a 'sledgehammer to crack a nut' situation.

Skin biochemistry is anything but simple, as a cosmetologist you might find works by the late great 'godfather' of corneobiology and corneotherapy - Albert Kligman - interesting.

HTH.
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect

Last edited by Firefox7275; 08-06-2014 at 05:18 AM.
I would've thought since this has SLS in it (and coco betaine), then it would've removed the silicones itself anyway!
twirlygranny likes this.
3A with some 3B thrown in. Medium porosity. Medium Thickness. High density.

Pre-poo: Organic Virgin Coconut Oil
Low-poo: SM Coconut & Hibiscus shampoo / ElastaQP Créme Conditioning shampoo
Conditioner: Jason Moisturising Aloe Vera Conditioner

D/C: Experimenting!

Leave-in: Baptism rinse
Styler: Ouidad Climate Control Heat & Humidity


UK curly. CG since October 2013.
Aiming for WL curls (eventually)
I haven't been diagnosed with anything.. I should probably go to the dr :|
I was hoping that the shampoo would contain something that would stop the build-up, but wasn't sure.
I have no idea why that particular shampoo works, I really don't, but it does. It's almost immediate relief, completely normal non-flaky scalp within a week. When I don't use it, and use ANY other shampoo I end up itching and bleeding. Not fun.
I should have clarified though that I was doing 'low-poo' not no-poo. I suppose if this shampoo makes my actual hair look bad again, then I may try no-poo. I was avoiding it because my scalp itches SO much if I leave it too long inbetween washing.. and using a conditioner to wash my scalp just sounds like a recipe for disastor.
Is vinegar reccommended for scalp problems? I've tried sugar scrubs, salt scrubs, tea tree oil.. umm, can't remember what else!
I think the same, why clarify? The shampoo will do it.
Also, you are not CG, so what? Its not a cult. Enjoy your non itchy scalp

Things you can do is try to keep te shampoo to the scalp and condition the lenght. Or dilute the shampoo .
Also, you are not CG, so what? Its not a cult. Enjoy your non itchy scalp
Originally Posted by butter52
WORD.
twirlygranny likes this.
3A with some 3B thrown in. Medium porosity. Medium Thickness. High density.

Pre-poo: Organic Virgin Coconut Oil
Low-poo: SM Coconut & Hibiscus shampoo / ElastaQP Créme Conditioning shampoo
Conditioner: Jason Moisturising Aloe Vera Conditioner

D/C: Experimenting!

Leave-in: Baptism rinse
Styler: Ouidad Climate Control Heat & Humidity


UK curly. CG since October 2013.
Aiming for WL curls (eventually)
Exactly. If it works use it!

Also, the shampoo takes care of the dimethicone. No need to worry about that.
FroZen
I haven't been diagnosed with anything.. I should probably go to the dr :|
I was hoping that the shampoo would contain something that would stop the build-up, but wasn't sure.
I have no idea why that particular shampoo works, I really don't, but it does. It's almost immediate relief, completely normal non-flaky scalp within a week. When I don't use it, and use ANY other shampoo I end up itching and bleeding. Not fun.
I should have clarified though that I was doing 'low-poo' not no-poo. I suppose if this shampoo makes my actual hair look bad again, then I may try no-poo. I was avoiding it because my scalp itches SO much if I leave it too long inbetween washing.. and using a conditioner to wash my scalp just sounds like a recipe for disastor.
Is vinegar reccommended for scalp problems? I've tried sugar scrubs, salt scrubs, tea tree oil.. umm, can't remember what else!
Originally Posted by Entropy
Scrubs will further damage the skin barrier potentially worsening the problem, you would be better with a formal diagnosis than randomly self treating. Nothing suits all skin types, again without a diagnosis it is impossible to recommend anything.

Some scalp problems respond well to conditioner only washing, some are worsened by it, some people do well with specific conditioners but badly with others. We do have those with seborrhoeic dermatitis here that can co-wash at least part time - often with a product containing tea tree - but many cannot. Severity is likely relevant.

Conditioner can be surprisingly cleansing: my scalp and roots are literally squeaky clean and I can easily shift a heavy coconut oiling. Even better, my atopic eczema is a distant memory.
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,073
Possibly for exactly the same reason borax (harsh and stripping, no evidence of healing powers) seems effective for you. Dandruff is not a medical condition, it is a lay term used to describe a number of flaky or itchy scalp disorders with very different aetiology.

Research suggests some react negatively to components of their own sebum (oleic acid, tho there may be others) so cleansing that away will reduce that specific aspect of the irritation.

Furthermore with seborrhoeic dermatitis (anything from very mild greasy 'dandruff' to severe) saturated fatty acids in the sebum feed malassezia yeast, which proliferates releasing yet more oleic acid as a waste product. The body can respond to this irritation by pumping out yet more sebum further increasing the concentration oleic acid .... vicious cycle.

Strong surfactants or alkaline agents (borax, baking soda, traditional soaps) not only strip away the sebum, temporarily removing the food source. They also loosen the 'grip' the skin flora (good and bad guys) have on the skin massively reducing the population of malassezia yeast.

No yeast/ no sebum = no irritation. There may be irritation from the surfactants or alkaline agents but this can be substantially less than the irritation from the oleic acid. You will note that the vast majority of commercial dandruff shampoos contain a harsh sulphate surfactant plus some form of anti fungal to manage the yeast population. In many cases IMO this is a 'sledgehammer to crack a nut' situation.

Skin biochemistry is anything but simple, as a cosmetologist you might find works by the late great 'godfather' of corneobiology and corneotherapy - Albert Kligman - interesting.

HTH.
Originally Posted by Firefox7275
I beg to differ. Borax is a known antifungal (and by extension "anti-yeast"), so it's action is not limited to just washing out the sebum, which wouldn't matter since the yeast live inside the skin/scalp follicle where the sebaceous glands are otherwise, why won't shampoo wash the yeast away too? However, just a few uses of a borax rinse will actually kill the organisms and the condition is cured, just like a prescription shampoo would do.

For the purposes of the needs of the majority of people who come seeking for advice in this forum, the biochemistry of the scalp as it relates to their/our needs is not complicated at all IMO.

Entropy:

Itching after going some days without washing one's hair is entirely normal! It just means that the skin cells that have come to the end of their normal life are shedding and because curlies do not brush their hair, those cells are not shed on a daily basis but accumulate and the itch is there to get us either to scratch or wash them off; even when we bathe or shower daily we still can get random itching on our skin that is due to the same reason if we don't exfoliate often, it's just normal. So perhaps you just need to co-wash a bit more often or use the sugar scrub.

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