What would you do with this mess? Pics

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Im new to the no poo method and using products specifically for curly hair. I am in the first month and have no idea if im doing anything right.
I think I have 2A, low poro, medium texture, low density and medium length hair that is neither all wavy or all straight. For the past 5 years I have kept it in a bob wedged towards the front cuz it just is easier to keep it straight. I have been tryin the deva curl line of no poo conditioner cleanser, one conditioner, with the light gel curl definer. I also bought some suave clarifying shampoo and shea moisture conditioner to use when my deva curl runs out. I just absolutely hate my hair and want to cry when I see pictures of myself. I think I might start wearing wigs. What would you do with this?
Attached Thumbnails
What would you do with this mess? Pics-img_4932.jpg   What would you do with this mess? Pics-img_4943.jpg   What would you do with this mess? Pics-img_4945.jpg   What would you do with this mess? Pics-img_4947.jpg   What would you do with this mess? Pics-img_4958.jpg  

You have a LOT of wave on there. I suspect a lot of that straightest stuff is big time heat damage. Have you tried coconut oil pre-poo treatments? Also you might try protein treatments. A nice entry level product is Ion Effective care at Sallys. Lots of this is just going to take patience on your part. I use diluted Suave Clarifying shampoo probably once a week. I dilute about 2 tsp in 4 oz of water. Plenty of cleansing power without stripping. Do you use a leave in conditioner at all? I highly suspect you need to grow out you damage and is also bet money if you did you'd have 2 b/c spirals. But if you straighten you will just keep damaging it. You see all that spiraling in back? I bet you don't apply as much heat as long as you do in front. AND if I were you I'd try to find a curly hair specialist to cut my hair. What state do you live in? But for sure I'd try coconut oil (put it through the length golf you hair - enough to look like you've had the flu for a week) and leave it over night. Use a dilute mix of the clarifying on your hair that day. And I would definitely try a protein treatment. Even just some beer as a rinse between your wash and your conditioner would help. I wound try a deep condition once a week. Just take your richest conditioner and work it through the Ends, wrap up in a flour sack towel and if you have a good dryer sit under it or use your blow dryer on hot and keep that towel warm. Try to do that for 15 min. Then let it stay on another 45 and then rinse well. You might even need to poo a little after it but use a light hand. ALSO get a satin pillow case. I can't tell you how much discovered the cotton ones suck moonstone out of your hair. My hair gets this look when I go back to using cotton cases. HUGE difference. None of this will change over night but it will get better. And if you need to pull it all back for a while so it but don't use a straightener on your hair. I'd swear sideways that at least three inches of that hair is bad heat damage. You can get it looking better but the real wave won't come back until you trim it out. You, my dear, are going to have fabulous hair if you can use some patience. Also technique is huge. In my if nature is a link to several technique videos I've made. Take a look and see if you can use some of that. I just see gigantic potential in your hair!!!!
ttoosday likes this.
2a medium porous, You can see my wavy tutorials here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...ZNxhBHSXAW40OQ and my wavy blog is The Wavy Nation http://wavynation.wordpress.com

Last edited by chupie; 11-15-2014 at 03:02 PM.
Thank you for the quick reply! Yes I agree, it is probably completely ruined from heat. To answer the questions in your post, no I have not used a pre-poo routine at all. I don't know how to do it or what to buy. I don't use leave in products because they usually make my hair feel icky and pull out the waves. If I was flat ironing, I would use a teensy bit of straightening serum or heat protectant spray. It feels super rough and dry and its SO THIN! And it falls out so much I cant get it to grow very long. I haven't tried protein because I am just so new and confused. Ive read protein dries hair out. I feel like it needs moisture but I am so confused over what products to use.


So do a prepoo coconut oil from Sallys? Before EVERY wash, which is like every other day or three days or so?


And a deep conditioning treatment weekly? Like VO5 hot oil? Does it matter what ingredients are in it?


And a protein treatment like a beer rinse...at every wash?


And a deep conditioner once a week? Im not sure I understand what a deep conditioner is. Again, do ingredients matter?


I will look for a satin pillow case for sure. Man that is looking to be a lot of maintenance. I can try to get as much done in the half hour before heading to work as I can, I leave the house at 630 in the mornings. Also I should mention that I am going to try Natural Instincts semi permanent hair color for gray roots that appear every three weeks or so, instead of permanent color like I have been doing for years.


Thank you for the encouragement. Im at my wits end and I don't even want to leave the house with this mess. Im in Oklahoma City and I could look for a salon that does dry cuts. I am starting to resent my current stylist. I think I will stop going to her.
Thank you for the quick reply! Yes I agree, it is probably completely ruined from heat. To answer the questions in your post, no I have not used a pre-poo routine at all. I don't know how to do it or what to buy. I don't use leave in products because they usually make my hair feel icky and pull out the waves. If I was flat ironing, I would use a teensy bit of straightening serum or heat protectant spray. It feels super rough and dry and its SO THIN! And it falls out so much I cant get it to grow very long. I haven't tried protein because I am just so new and confused. Ive read protein dries hair out. I feel like it needs moisture but I am so confused over what products to use.


So do a prepoo coconut oil from Sallys? Before EVERY wash, which is like every other day or three days or so?
Originally Posted by ttoosday
You can get coconut oil at any grocery store. You can get Ion Effective Care, a high protein conditioner at Sally's. I'd start with one treatment and see how your hair likes it. Coconut is an oil that will soak into your hair and help strengthen it. It helps retain your protein so the hair stays stronger. I'd sure try that first. Here is a video on how to do coconut oil treatments https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbom...SVXyX5yTXmsdJ7 Honestly, most people can do it once a week. Some do it before every wash for at least a few minutes. You have to see how your hair responds.



And a deep conditioning treatment weekly? Like VO5 hot oil? Does it matter what ingredients are in it?
No, like I said you can just use your Deva One Condition. But work it through, wrap it in a towel and use either a hard hat dryer if you have one or your blow dryer to keep the towel warm for at least 15 minutes. You could rinse then or try leaving it in another 40 minutes or so without the heat. Let it soak in and soften your hair. I'd do it at least weekly.

And a protein treatment like a beer rinse...at every wash?
No, maybe every two weeks. Kind of depends on how your hair responds. Some people can do it weekly others once a month. OR you can get some Ion Effective Care at Sally's. If you do that, you don't need the beer. Beer would be a fast and dirty way to get some protein in. I can use it once a week even.

And a deep conditioner once a week? Im not sure I understand what a deep conditioner is. Again, do ingredients matter?
There are lots of deep conditioners you can buy but honestly you can start with just the Deva since you have it. Eventually you'll figure out what conditioners your hair likes and maybe even just take a favorite conditioner and add a few things. OR you'll find one you like and stick to that but for now, I see no problem with starting with just doing as described above with your Deva OC.

I will look for a satin pillow case for sure. Man that is looking to be a lot of maintenance. I can try to get as much done in the half hour before heading to work as I can, I leave the house at 630 in the mornings. Also I should mention that I am going to try Natural Instincts semi permanent hair color for gray roots that appear every three weeks or so, instead of permanent color like I have been doing for years.
Well, once you do it for a while, it's not as maintenance heavy but you have a lot of damage so right now it's a lot of maintenance if you want to get it healthy. It also helps your hair to put coconut oil in it before you color. It'll protect it and help you from losing protein.

You won't have to do all of this every day. But yeah, for a while I'd do it once a week. The coconut deal is over night, so just put it in the night before you intend to wash in the morning. No big deal. Deep conditioning or protein treatments are a little bigger deal. Save it for a day off. Sleeping on a satin pillow case, no extra time.
Thank you for the encouragement. Im at my wits end and I don't even want to leave the house with this mess. Im in Oklahoma City and I could look for a salon that does dry cuts. I am starting to resent my current stylist. I think I will stop going to her.
Look up some nice updos you can do for now. I stroooooongly strongly encourage you to NOT iron AT ALL. Or you will just kill it further. But it isn't going to get fabulous over night but I really do think you will see an improvement. Check the salon finder on this site, the Deva stylist finder on the Deva site or look for a Curly Hair artist on this list Curly Hair Artistry – Global Stylist Listing | Scott Musgrave Hair and see if here is someone near you to help you with this. a GOOD cut, with a curly artist (especially from Curly Hair Artistry - they will help you learn about your hair) could be a real boon to you. If there isn't anyone from these near you, find someone who has heard of the Curly Girl method at least or who had curly hair themselves and wears it curly.

Speaking of, have you heard of the Curly Girl Method? Here is a starting place How to Follow the Curly Girl Method The only caveat is wavies often can only co-wash part of the time or not at all. It depends. But again, just really dilute regular shampoo then if it causes an issue. You need barely any shampoo really mixed in water to clean your hair.

And take a look at my videos (and others) to see different techniques. Technique is 60% of the battle IMO. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...ZNxhBHSXAW40OQ
ttoosday likes this.
2a medium porous, You can see my wavy tutorials here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...ZNxhBHSXAW40OQ and my wavy blog is The Wavy Nation http://wavynation.wordpress.com
You also might want to try something other than the Deva gel. Deva is amazing for my hair but, I find if I don't use it sparingly (less than four times a week) my hair starts looking fried.

Also, I find it builds up (even though they say it doesn't). So, the no poo might not be washing it out of your hair.

Honestly, I know it can be really hard when it is your head (oh, how I know) but I see really pretty hair under all that. Stick with this site and I predict great hair in your future.
So far I think the devacurl no poo does a good job of cleansing, tho I have nothing to compare it to yet. It feels pretty clean for three or more days afterwards. I don't know if the one conditioner does a good job or not. I mean, the hair feels dry and rough and and sure doesn't look good. Maybe because I'm entirely off about my porosity or maybe it is just going yo take a long time to feel different. I don't know.
I hate to give up too early on any products, so how will I know if they are or are not working if it is going to take months before the hair improves?
Let me get this off my chest, please.
I also think my biggest war (a losing battle, no less) is going to be with density. I have a third of the hair as most people. How is that fair!? It took a decade to learn that my thin hair was never going to be long thick and beautiful. It just is not in the cards for me. So I spent the next decade straightening or adding curls with an iron probably 85% of the time, mainly as a reaction to my hair looking ugly otherwise.
I don't even know what my motivation for doing cg is.... except maybe by some miracle my hair will transform into Julia Roberts waves or something if I'm nice to it for a change. I guess having a cute stacked bob cut made me realize something -ok maybe my hair is normal and capable of a cute style (a cute short, straight style.) So I'm worried I will put years worth of effort into cg only to realize my hair is still as awful as it always has been.
Ok vent over. Back to the point, I hope I can find good products. Oh and I got my satin pillowcases so that part's a go.
Total noob- need alot of help and explanations
2a in front highly damaged, 2b in back, Low low density, Course (!!) texture, Low porosity at root, high everywhere else, Medium length, lots of shedding.
Prewash: occasional coconut oil treatment
Lo poo: diluted suave clarifying
Cowash/RO: GVP conditioning balm
Leave in: trying GVP conditioning balm (tiny tad bit)
Styler: trying miss jessies pillow soft curls (tiny tad bit)
Currently wearing alot of puffy ponytails.

Last edited by ttoosday; 11-16-2014 at 03:37 PM.
First of all I think that in order to get the most of your hair you should lessen up on the damage as it looks quite dry, heat damage. Be gentle. I would aim to get moisture back in check.

I don't think your hair looks naturally thin, but I think the ends look scraggly or a bit thinned out. If I was in your position I would get a good cut, maybe back into the bob shape? Because right now to me it looks sort of in-between that and shoulder length. Hair always looks and feels thicker after a cut.

Don't fret, you have some good wave in there and a lot of potential. It will take a lot of learning and trial and error to get your hair to be healthy and the best it can be but it's worth it. Good luck and keep us updated!
ttoosday likes this.
Pre Shampoo: Olive Oil
Low Shampoo: Redken Curvaceous Cream Shampoo
Conditioner: Tresemme Naturals Nourishing Moisture
Treatments: SM Yucca & Baobab Masque/SM African Black Soap Masque/Joico K-Pak Reconstructor
Leave in/Oil:Castor Oil/Redken Diamond Oil Conditioner
Styling: AG Recoil Curl Activator/V05 Mega Hold/Cornstarch
Refresh: Redken Fresh Curls Curl Boost


Waist Length, 2B with 2C ends

Last edited by eveum; 11-16-2014 at 05:26 PM.
What Eveum said. No matter what you hair is you want it to be healthy so you know it's full potential. And frankly the more you dance it and break it off the more it will look thin whether or not it is. You are stuck in a cycle and it will take a while to get it healthier.
ttoosday likes this.
2a medium porous, You can see my wavy tutorials here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...ZNxhBHSXAW40OQ and my wavy blog is The Wavy Nation http://wavynation.wordpress.com
I think your hair has lots of potential. Esp with the photo of the back of your head, very nice waves/curls. You just need to get moisture back in your hair, and start to grow out the heat damage. For inspiration there's this thread of before and after starting the CG method:
Post your before & After CG pics
Just remember that there is usually a 5 or 6 month learning curve with this. I *just* discovered what technique and products are working for me (still a work in progress) and it's been about 6 months. It's worth it at the end.
My hair looked very thin and almost straight when I first started because I had no idea what I was doing. I've shed a lot of hair due to health issues but with the right products and techniques my hair now looks so much fuller and curlier and healthy! Your hair looks much nicer than mine did to start with IMO.

2B/2C/f/i
Baby fine brown hair, high porosity
No poo: AVG mixed with glycerin
Stylers: SS CEJ, gelatin hair gel, SS FHG
Treatments: rosemary and chamomile tea rinse, henna, hydrogen peroxide
IA Girl's PT, SS PT
Homemake hair products.
I, too, would suggest a good cut to shape your hair and get rid of the tips. A good cut is the foundation for everything else. When one has low density hair, longer just makes it look stringier. Once it's shaped, with appropriate layers, you can start working on ingredients/products and learning techniques that your hair likes.
3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
modified CG, since April '07
CG since 3/11/08

SE PA

HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic (now Hello Curly Curl Stimulater); Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me, Aloe Fix and CCCC
Yeah, a lot of that is heat damage. A good cut and a lot of deep treatment moisturizing will help, but it won't look it's best until all that damage is gone. It could take awhile. For me, it took about a year before my hair was looking really, really good. My hair was damaged from hair dye and a blow dryer. The Deva Care One Condition helped me a ton that first year. I used the low poo to scrub my scalp (avoiding the length of my hair) and then the One Condition on the length. Your hair has a ton of potential. When the damaged bits grow out and are eventually are cut off, you're going to have a beautiful head of hair. Please don't give up!
Hair Properties: 2A/2B, Medium-fine, Normal porosity, Normal elasticity, Medium density
Low Poo: DevaCare, Yes to Cuc's
Rinse Out: DevaCare One Condition, Yes to Cuc's
Cowash: Suave Naturals Lavender, Yes to Carrots Scalp Conditioner
Curl Cream: AG ReCoil, Organix Moroccan Oil Curl Cream
Gel/Mousse: Sweet Curls Elixirs FSG w/ Mag Sulfate added, Sweet Curls Elixirs hard hold gel, DevaCurl Frizz Free Foam, Aquage Uplifting Foam
Protein: Spiral Solutions Protein Spray for daily use
You can see some of my progression photos in my signature, but here are larger pics of my very first day going CG in Jan 2012 and my hair now nearly 3 years later. The one where I'm wearing brown and in a public restroom is the Day 1 photo. The other 2 were taken last month. In one, my hair is looser. In the other, I had just clarified my hair (we've got hard water, so it builds up) and done my normal styling and diffused. I use a hard hold flax seed gel for my styling product these days.
Attached Thumbnails
What would you do with this mess? Pics-jan2012.jpg   What would you do with this mess? Pics-oct-2014-loose.jpg   What would you do with this mess? Pics-oct-2014-diffused.jpg  
Hair Properties: 2A/2B, Medium-fine, Normal porosity, Normal elasticity, Medium density
Low Poo: DevaCare, Yes to Cuc's
Rinse Out: DevaCare One Condition, Yes to Cuc's
Cowash: Suave Naturals Lavender, Yes to Carrots Scalp Conditioner
Curl Cream: AG ReCoil, Organix Moroccan Oil Curl Cream
Gel/Mousse: Sweet Curls Elixirs FSG w/ Mag Sulfate added, Sweet Curls Elixirs hard hold gel, DevaCurl Frizz Free Foam, Aquage Uplifting Foam
Protein: Spiral Solutions Protein Spray for daily use
You can see some of my progression photos in my signature, but here are larger pics of my very first day going CG in Jan 2012 and my hair now nearly 3 years later. The one where I'm wearing brown and in a public restroom is the Day 1 photo. The other 2 were taken last month. In one, my hair is looser. In the other, I had just clarified my hair (we've got hard water, so it builds up) and done my normal styling and diffused. I use a hard hold flax seed gel for my styling product these days.
Originally Posted by jakrussel3
Wow! Such beautiful curls! Im so jealous! I can see the progression from beginning to now. I would love to see my hair do the same thing. I hope it has the potential to turn into lovely consistent waves. It is just so dang inconsistent.

One thing I have been thinking about this week is whether or not I should try to get it to clump anymore. As much as I would love for it to be nice even clumps, I think I have way too low density, and even normal-sized-for-other-people clumps may draw hairs away from other places, giving it that terrible look, does that make sense? Which is why I think it looked OK in the straight short bob style, because it wasn't so obvious that the hairs were pulling double duty taking up space depending on which way I swung my head.
Currently, I am thinking one huge factor is going to be length, if I can just get it to stop falling out and maybe grow some length (here's me wishing upon a star again like I did when I was twelve), the low density would be harder to see because..i dunno just maybe it would be less obvious. And the thin, stringy ends would at least not be beside my face where everyone looks. I dunno, we shall see.
Total noob- need alot of help and explanations
2a in front highly damaged, 2b in back, Low low density, Course (!!) texture, Low porosity at root, high everywhere else, Medium length, lots of shedding.
Prewash: occasional coconut oil treatment
Lo poo: diluted suave clarifying
Cowash/RO: GVP conditioning balm
Leave in: trying GVP conditioning balm (tiny tad bit)
Styler: trying miss jessies pillow soft curls (tiny tad bit)
Currently wearing alot of puffy ponytails.
I, too, would suggest a good cut to shape your hair and get rid of the tips. A good cut is the foundation for everything else. When one has low density hair, longer just makes it look stringier. Once it's shaped, with appropriate layers, you can start working on ingredients/products and learning techniques that your hair likes.
Originally Posted by kathymack
I do need a cut, that's for sure. I keep telling my stylist to cut it in such a way that wearing natural curls will look good, and she keeps layering the back and wedging it to the front. Which was my straight cut for the last 5 years. Im scared to lose any length, tho, I will freely admit that.
Total noob- need alot of help and explanations
2a in front highly damaged, 2b in back, Low low density, Course (!!) texture, Low porosity at root, high everywhere else, Medium length, lots of shedding.
Prewash: occasional coconut oil treatment
Lo poo: diluted suave clarifying
Cowash/RO: GVP conditioning balm
Leave in: trying GVP conditioning balm (tiny tad bit)
Styler: trying miss jessies pillow soft curls (tiny tad bit)
Currently wearing alot of puffy ponytails.

Currently, I am thinking one huge factor is going to be length, if I can just get it to stop falling out and maybe grow some length (here's me wishing upon a star again like I did when I was twelve), the low density would be harder to see because..i dunno just maybe it would be less obvious. And the thin, stringy ends would at least not be beside my face where everyone looks. I dunno, we shall see.
Originally Posted by ttoosday
Actually, low density hair is more apparent with length. IMHO, the stringy ends just look worse and stringier, if that's a word.
rbb likes this.
3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
modified CG, since April '07
CG since 3/11/08

SE PA

HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic (now Hello Curly Curl Stimulater); Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me, Aloe Fix and CCCC
I'd say that's a word, for sure! I can see what you mean
Total noob- need alot of help and explanations
2a in front highly damaged, 2b in back, Low low density, Course (!!) texture, Low porosity at root, high everywhere else, Medium length, lots of shedding.
Prewash: occasional coconut oil treatment
Lo poo: diluted suave clarifying
Cowash/RO: GVP conditioning balm
Leave in: trying GVP conditioning balm (tiny tad bit)
Styler: trying miss jessies pillow soft curls (tiny tad bit)
Currently wearing alot of puffy ponytails.
Doing my *first* ever coconut oil treatment. I planned to leave it in overnight. Quick question, I read that a person literally cannot overdo it with coconut oil. Is that true? If my hair dries a little right after application, should I keep applying it until bedtime? It seems to be sucking this oil right up. Is that what is supposed to happen?
Total noob- need alot of help and explanations
2a in front highly damaged, 2b in back, Low low density, Course (!!) texture, Low porosity at root, high everywhere else, Medium length, lots of shedding.
Prewash: occasional coconut oil treatment
Lo poo: diluted suave clarifying
Cowash/RO: GVP conditioning balm
Leave in: trying GVP conditioning balm (tiny tad bit)
Styler: trying miss jessies pillow soft curls (tiny tad bit)
Currently wearing alot of puffy ponytails.
Hm, not sure about whether to keep applying it or not. My hair maxes out after just a few drops and it won't wash out. Some people definitely can overdo it. But it's good that your hair is absorbing it. You're probably not one of the people who will have problems washing it out. And also, that's a sign your hair will be better moisturized than before. Good luck with the treatment!

2B/2C/f/i
Baby fine brown hair, high porosity
No poo: AVG mixed with glycerin
Stylers: SS CEJ, gelatin hair gel, SS FHG
Treatments: rosemary and chamomile tea rinse, henna, hydrogen peroxide
IA Girl's PT, SS PT
Homemake hair products.
If coconut oil doesn't work try Olive oil!
Pre Shampoo: Olive Oil
Low Shampoo: Redken Curvaceous Cream Shampoo
Conditioner: Tresemme Naturals Nourishing Moisture
Treatments: SM Yucca & Baobab Masque/SM African Black Soap Masque/Joico K-Pak Reconstructor
Leave in/Oil:Castor Oil/Redken Diamond Oil Conditioner
Styling: AG Recoil Curl Activator/V05 Mega Hold/Cornstarch
Refresh: Redken Fresh Curls Curl Boost


Waist Length, 2B with 2C ends

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