my dillema with shampoo

so i've just read the articles from this months curlmart and i couldn't help but noticing the comment that shampoo's make hair frizzy and can buildup in porous hair, causing frizz.

i've done the CG routine - twice, completely 100% no shampoo, only co-wash, avoid silicones etc. there's a good photo log of it in my fotki. but i eventually realised my hair was getting wavier and flimsier, and lacking volume and even falling outa lot more with cowashing and when i used shampoo - pop, my curls went super curly!! so my hair is very fine, can easily get overconditioned but at the same time... recently i've noticed it's pretty frizzy and kinda lacking shine and lustre, i'm assuming because i sulfate shampoo everytime? I do use a very mild shampoo - i've tried enough to kno this one is mild, despite containing a sulfate. (its all about quantity of ingredient, so a cocobetaine one is harsher than a sulfate one...)

i have to avoid protein. i used a protein conditioner last time i washed as my hair did need the protein, and it hasnt made it dry. intead, my hair has gone so flimsy and minimsed in volume its really thin looking and totally hanging off my head. it feels very soft and if i was going for the soft flimsy/wavy look it'd be fine. but i like tighter ringlets and a little volume! and this was WITH using a sulfate shampoo, whcih is usually my saviour for volume!

so, i'm starting to get lost in my own thinking and remembering my experiences. can people please remind me of why they love/hate sulfates and why cowashing does/doesn't work for them. and after all i've said, can any guru maybe explain whether sulfates are working for or against me? i have tried lighter conditioenrs but then my hair just doesnt get enough moisture and gets lots of dry frizz. but a harsh sulfate, which would dry out the hair preventing overconditioning, is too harsh and leaves my hair undefined and almost the same as over-conditioning.

cleanse: OS shampoo. PureNuffStuff cleanser.
condition: Aussie 3MM. Jessicurl Aloeba.
style: B2Basics GreenTeaGel. T&G Curl Balm. JCarter Nourish&Shine.


pw: curlywurly
I alternate washing with a gentle-sulfate shampoo and co-washing. My hair gets weighed down if I co-wash all the time, but I can't use a very light conditioner or I get lots of dry frizz. It's a very delicate balance, and I feel your pain. If I were you, I would not cut out the sulfate completely. Maybe try not using the shampoo every time. If you're worried of overconditioning from co-washing, you could just do a water rinse instead of the shampoo on some days.
*Poster formerly known as Bailey422*

Here's all you have to know about men and women: women are crazy, men are stupid. And the main reason women are crazy is that men are stupid. ~ George Carlin
Thanks bailey. I think most curlies can sympathise with a routine that works fab for a while then just seems to go poof with your hair It could be because the weather is getting warmer and there's less moisture around (in scotland its wet in winter and dry in summer, not wet and warm). but my hair has just flopped. it does FEEL gorgeously soft, I just want to know how i get it to feel soft AND look really curls and springy. I think my hair needs to be a leetle dry to curl more, but too dry and it'll frizz.

cleanse: OS shampoo. PureNuffStuff cleanser.
condition: Aussie 3MM. Jessicurl Aloeba.
style: B2Basics GreenTeaGel. T&G Curl Balm. JCarter Nourish&Shine.


pw: curlywurly
I was a month into CG when I got my hair cut last week by a Deva-trained stylist. I had only been co-washing since starting on February 22nd, 2007. The stylist said the top of my hair looked greasy and my hair was over conditioned. I already had a full bottle of No-poo at home so thought I would give it a try. The bottle says gentle enough for daily use. So since last Wednesday, I have been using No-poo on a daily basis with great results. I've also been using OneC and then a light leave-in conditioner that I prefer.
Too much of anything is never a good thing. my hair is fine and thick, 2b. I alternate between co-wash and lo-poo. This works very well. I have to do some type of 'cleanse' every day or else my hair just gets too weighed down. On the days I notice my wavies are flat, I lo-poo the following day. They spring right back up. Then I co-wash for a couple days, and the whole process starts all over again.
I don't think any one thing works for absolutely everyone. So although CG is great, it's just not for everyone. Do not despair if it's not your thing. Sometimes a gentle (but still sulfate and detergent free) cleanser is just the ticket. I do believe that it is possible to move away from these on a daily basis, but don't ignore what your hair 'tells' you. If it needs to be cleaned, well, it needs to be cleaned. There are many good alternatives to poo to get hair clean, don't forget about those!
You do not lead by hitting people over the head-that's assault, not leadership. -Dwight Eisenhower
I find that my hair needs sulfates to make my curls bouncier, but too much sulfate makes my hair drier. The low sulfate and no sulfate poos just don't get me the results I want. So, I use a regular sulfate poo (currently Suave Aloe & Waterlily) about 2X a week. If my hair starts looking drier, I skip a poo and just condition. If it starts looking limper, I wash with a poo. I just go on a "how does my hair feel today and what does it look like it needs" basis. I don't hold fast to any product or particular routine. I think that is probably what keeps my hair looking great most of the time. Well, great to me and that's what really counts! LOL
I'm a 3b, with 3c underneath.

Used to be CG, now I'm not. Using Suave Aloe & Waterlily shampoo & condish, JoiWhip, BRHG, Suave Aloe gel, Aussie Tizz No Frizz, and anything else that looks good!
My Myspace!
so i've just read the articles from this months curlmart and i couldn't help but noticing the comment that shampoo's make hair frizzy and can buildup in porous hair, causing frizz.

i've done the CG routine - twice, completely 100% no shampoo, only co-wash, avoid silicones etc. there's a good photo log of it in my fotki. but i eventually realised my hair was getting wavier and flimsier, and lacking volume and even falling outa lot more with cowashing and when i used shampoo - pop, my curls went super curly!! so my hair is very fine, can easily get overconditioned but at the same time... recently i've noticed it's pretty frizzy and kinda lacking shine and lustre, i'm assuming because i sulfate shampoo everytime? I do use a very mild shampoo - i've tried enough to kno this one is mild, despite containing a sulfate. (its all about quantity of ingredient, so a cocobetaine one is harsher than a sulfate one...)

i have to avoid protein. i used a protein conditioner last time i washed as my hair did need the protein, and it hasnt made it dry. intead, my hair has gone so flimsy and minimsed in volume its really thin looking and totally hanging off my head. it feels very soft and if i was going for the soft flimsy/wavy look it'd be fine. but i like tighter ringlets and a little volume! and this was WITH using a sulfate shampoo, whcih is usually my saviour for volume!

so, i'm starting to get lost in my own thinking and remembering my experiences. can people please remind me of why they love/hate sulfates and why cowashing does/doesn't work for them. and after all i've said, can any guru maybe explain whether sulfates are working for or against me? i have tried lighter conditioenrs but then my hair just doesnt get enough moisture and gets lots of dry frizz. but a harsh sulfate, which would dry out the hair preventing overconditioning, is too harsh and leaves my hair undefined and almost the same as over-conditioning.
Originally Posted by jennyfurrens
It is so funny that you posted this because I have noticed the same thing happening with my hair. If you look at my pics from last year they were very nice 3a ringlets but now they are super soft like you said but very dry and frizzy. All that I could handle except for the fact that now my once 3a/3b curls are now turning into fuzzy waves.

I have been cg on and off since 2003 and before cg I was alternating between Pantene and Thermasilk and straightening it every other day. Now when I want my hair to be curly it wants to be straight. What gives?

I have been doing silicones and sulfates the last few months just because it did not seem that my hair was responding to "curly" products but now my hair doesn't seem to be responding to cones or sulfates either. I am soo frusterated. I swear I can totally relate to Britney Spears right now. Maybe I should trick my curls into showing up by straightening my hair again.

Seriously, any suggestions from the hair experts on this board would be greatly appriciated.
"Wonder Twin Powers, Activate! "
Well I'm going for a haircut in 3 weeks and I'm hoping that'll help the condition of my curls and maybe my hairdresser can enlighten me? That's almost wishful thinking and she's not curly trained at all....

But hopefully the dead ends, and dry fuzz at the end being chopped off will help. If I make any breakthroughs I'll be sure to let you know!

cleanse: OS shampoo. PureNuffStuff cleanser.
condition: Aussie 3MM. Jessicurl Aloeba.
style: B2Basics GreenTeaGel. T&G Curl Balm. JCarter Nourish&Shine.


pw: curlywurly
I decided pretty quickly that full CG wasn't for me. For 3 years now I've been alternating CO washing with a sulfate free cleanser. I wash about 3 times a week, and alternate CO, Deva No Poo or Jessicurl HCC.

If I really feel my hair is droopy and blah then I'll wash with a gentle sulfate shampoo. I only feel the need to do this about 2 times a year. This routine has been working great for me for 3 years so I go with it.
2b/3a, primarily use Jessicurl and DevaCurl products, Curls Hair Tea conditioner and various gels. I'm modified CG-ish since 5/04.
It's a balance between over conditioned and under. If I don't have enough conditioner on my hair goes straighter and flat on the top and I only get curls on the ends.
If I'm overconditioned I get frizzy hair when wet and my hair is flatter and real soft.

Also I have that soft water so if I don't rinse like crazy some of the soap clings to my hair and when I put gel in it suds up some. If I leave it like that it wil be flat on the top and overall flatter.

It's always something. Protein too often will be similar although usually much frizzier. It's enough to make my head spin.

Is your hair shedding more? If not the thinner is just from lack of volume at least. Have you been using the strong hold or the runnier gel? The strong hold should hold the curls in place.I'd think you needed some oils added to your hair but you use Aloeba and usually that keeps my hair in oils enough although I don't color so maybe you need a DT?

It seems we're all struggling with weather change right now and the crazy things it does to our hair
2c/3a?
Low porosity, medium texture.
http://public.fotki.com/Medusahair/

If it smells good put it in your hair, if it tastes good spit it out!
Well I'm going for a haircut in 3 weeks and I'm hoping that'll help the condition of my curls and maybe my hairdresser can enlighten me? That's almost wishful thinking and she's not curly trained at all....

But hopefully the dead ends, and dry fuzz at the end being chopped off will help. If I make any breakthroughs I'll be sure to let you know!
Originally Posted by jennyfurrens
I need a haircut as well hopefully that might help. If I have any breakthroughs I too will let you know.
"Wonder Twin Powers, Activate! "
I decided pretty quickly that full CG wasn't for me. For 3 years now I've been alternating CO washing with a sulfate free cleanser. I wash about 3 times a week, and alternate CO, Deva No Poo or Jessicurl HCC.

If I really feel my hair is droopy and blah then I'll wash with a gentle sulfate shampoo. I only feel the need to do this about 2 times a year. This routine has been working great for me for 3 years so I go with it.
Originally Posted by kimmyc
What do you co wash with ? And what condish and leave in condish do you use?
"Wonder Twin Powers, Activate! "

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