Am I overconditioned, please help.

Ok so I have been using Joico Kpak shampoo and conditioner and Curls Rock Amplifier for ages with good results. Getting 4 days out of my curls with a water spray refresh in between.

I have run out of curls rock so I needed a substitute until it arrives and have been trying to use a mousse which I used to use befor I discovered my HG. The mousse used to leave my hair stiff, but it was relatively frizz free and looked nice and clumpy once I scrunched out the crunch.

I have been frantically trying to get my curls right over the past week or so. Leaving in my conditioner and applying the mousse. But my hair just keeps going fluffy and the new hairs on my canopy are frizzy and coarse.
My hair has a tendancy to be coarse on top and leaving in lots of conditioner used to remdy this.
I bought some "stand in" curl creme and this has no hold either.
I have tried a DT too, with no change in results

I didn't think overconditioning would be a problem for me because I used sulphates every wash. I am also 7 months pregnant so I thought it could be hormonal but unlikely as my hair has been fine for the last 7 months so why would it change now?

Should I stop leaving in my conditioner or refrain from washing for a while?
3a Redhead
Umberto Giannini & Curls Rock Amp
Fotki pw: curls



There's a lot of protein in Joico Kpak products. Could you be having a reaction to that? When I use heavy proteins repeatedly my hair gets frizzy and dry feeling, and my curls are not well defined. You say you've been using Joico for a while - perhaps taking a break from it for a few days to see what happens, might be worth a try.
Couple of inches past shoulder length 3A. Shampoo every 3rd or 4th day w/ baby shampoo; Tigi Fashionista conditioner; back to Condition 3-in-1 mousse . Alternate days water rinse, conditioner and mousse.
Thanks for that.
I'm not sure how proteins come up in an ingredients list.
I think all because all of the shapoos and conditioners I use are middle of the road price wise and always for dry and damaged hair maybe they are all protein filled.

My hair has started reacting badly to another conditioner I use Charles Wothington Superconditioner which is really thick, I know it has keratin in it.

If I am protein sensitive how would I know? How would the ingredients list show a protein? Would a shampoo and conditioner for normal hair be the way to go, or would a cheaper brand be better?
What would I do to fix it?

Arghhhhhhhhhh!
3a Redhead
Umberto Giannini & Curls Rock Amp
Fotki pw: curls



Hey pitgirl,

I have been revising all day so my brain is a bit mushy so if this sounds a bit random i'll correct it in the morning I also had great results with charles worthington then it suddenly went wrong.

Protein sensitivity can happen overnight. Well for me. One day hair is fine. the next time you wash it it feels SO dry and crunchy. It might not look much different but it feels horrible - like straw. As if you havent conditioned it in months. And usually after one shampoo and different conditioner and styling product with no protein my hair is completely back to normal.

Proteins are any wheat/pvp... silk amino acids, keratin, um...modified vegetable protein. any amino acids really. A cheap brand isnt necesarily better altho they do often miss out proteins i guess cos they're more expensive. A nice mosturising non-protein conditioner is Aussie 3 Minute Miracle, the moist and colour mate both have proteins.

I find if i use a conditioner with protein and my hair doesnt like it - it'll tangle as i'm rinsing it out in the shower and get really knotty.

I also thought the same as you that using sulphates would combat over conditioning. but i was wrong. i was definately suffering from overconditioning but at the same time sulphates were just breaking up my curl pattern. my hair was majorily overconditioned tho, it didnt feel coarse at all .just had no real curl pattern and was really fluffy. so i did a water wash and used a light conditioner and my hair is better.

it COULD be pregnancy tho - lots of hormonal changes take place. and maybe diet? the products your using aren't cg i dont think so they might contain cones so you will need to keep using sulfates to get them out. but i fyou could use a shampoo then use cg friendly products only with no proteins see if it helps your hair?

sorry its being a pain! i'm going through the same at the moment but slowly working it out! i'll get back to you in the morning when i'm not half asleep

cleanse: OS shampoo. PureNuffStuff cleanser.
condition: Aussie 3MM. Jessicurl Aloeba.
style: B2Basics GreenTeaGel. T&G Curl Balm. JCarter Nourish&Shine.


pw: curlywurly
Hey pitgirl,

I have been revising all day so my brain is a bit mushy so if this sounds a bit random i'll correct it in the morning I also had great results with charles worthington then it suddenly went wrong.

Protein sensitivity can happen overnight. Well for me. One day hair is fine. the next time you wash it it feels SO dry and crunchy. It might not look much different but it feels horrible - like straw. As if you havent conditioned it in months. And usually after one shampoo and different conditioner and styling product with no protein my hair is completely back to normal.

Proteins are any wheat/pvp... silk amino acids, keratin, um...modified vegetable protein. any amino acids really. A cheap brand isnt necesarily better altho they do often miss out proteins i guess cos they're more expensive. A nice mosturising non-protein conditioner is Aussie 3 Minute Miracle, the moist and colour mate both have proteins.

I find if i use a conditioner with protein and my hair doesnt like it - it'll tangle as i'm rinsing it out in the shower and get really knotty.

I also thought the same as you that using sulphates would combat over conditioning. but i was wrong. i was definately suffering from overconditioning but at the same time sulphates were just breaking up my curl pattern. my hair was majorily overconditioned tho, it didnt feel coarse at all .just had no real curl pattern and was really fluffy. so i did a water wash and used a light conditioner and my hair is better.

it COULD be pregnancy tho - lots of hormonal changes take place. and maybe diet? the products your using aren't cg i dont think so they might contain cones so you will need to keep using sulfates to get them out. but i fyou could use a shampoo then use cg friendly products only with no proteins see if it helps your hair?
sorry its being a pain! i'm going through the same at the moment but slowly working it out! i'll get back to you in the morning when i'm not half asleep
Originally Posted by jennyfurrens
That is pretty spot on jennyf...esp the bolded. The woman that works next door to me said she had straight hair until her first pregnancy's 3rd tri. Then is was like overnight wavy. She told me she only thought that only happened to other women. Some hormonal changes are slight some are heavy duty, enough to change hair texture, skin and fingernail pigment etc.
Cincinnati Ohio>>>Coarse protein sensitive 3a, Jessicurl WDT as a leave in, Biotera gel, White Boots, PW= coffeecurls

"Man tries to exaggerate what nature has given him," Charles Darwin (1809-1882).

"Nothing makes a woman more beautiful than the belief that she is beautiful." -Sophia Loren
Thanks Jen, remember the revising is a drag but will be worth it in the end.

Ok well my hair, doesn't feel dry and crunchy.
No matter what I put on it, it just has no definition, mainly because it's too busy being fluffy/frizzy.
It feels nice and soft, but just too soft, like feathers.

I was using Aussie shampoos and condtioners and switched over to joico when the problem started, then I tried Charles worthington and that just seemed to exarcerbate the problem. From what you've said I think it may just be overconditioned instead of protein sensitivity.

When I was using Aussie Miracle moist shampoo and conditioner. I was using 3 minute miracle as my leave in. Should I try the Miracle Moist conditioner as a lighter leave in or leave nothing in at all?

I'm not on CG as the Curls Rock stuff is cone loaded. It is my HG product.

I may be persuaded to "blame the baby" i do for everything else
My diet is good at the mo, making sure the bub gets everything she needs.

Thanks again Jen x
3a Redhead
Umberto Giannini & Curls Rock Amp
Fotki pw: curls



Ok first off the aussie shampoos are WAY strong and even before i'd heard of NC.com i knew that they were bad for my curls as they totally destroyed any curl patter. i still used them but only once a week as otherwise too strong.

try original source tangerine and bergamot. i love it. it cleanses but is most gentle i've used and encourages curl.

aussie 3 MM is very rich -esp for leave in! and esp if you're overconditioned! if you're not protein sensitve maybe just use aussie moist as a regular conditioner then a TINY amount of it as leave in too but use more gel. if youre overconditioned i wouldnt even leave in any conditioner at all.

maybe see how far you can 'push' your hairw ithout moisture and then if it gets dry up the moisture again

right bed time. hope it works out! be back tomorrow x

cleanse: OS shampoo. PureNuffStuff cleanser.
condition: Aussie 3MM. Jessicurl Aloeba.
style: B2Basics GreenTeaGel. T&G Curl Balm. JCarter Nourish&Shine.


pw: curlywurly
I was having the exact experience that jennyfurrens described. Hair that looked and felt just like straw and didn't get any better despite all the conditioner I was applying. I switched conditioners like 5 times and I even bought the Joico KPak conditioner because someone told me how reparative it was. Ha! It was only after reading these boards that I realized maybe I was overconditioning... Long story short, I used a clarifying shampoo and conditioned (both were Elucence products since I had some samples and wanted to try something different) and it literally felt like I got a new head of hair! So maybe you need to clarify?
Type: Course & thick. According to everyone's input, 2c w/ 3a potential.
Color: Brown w/ highlights & annoying grays which I color.
Length: Past shoulders w/ layers.
Issues: Dryness, knots & more dryness!
Poo: Deva Lo-Poo 1 x week, Clarify 1-2 x month
CO Wash: Suave Tropical Coconut (but looking for something else b/c I suspect protein issues)
Condish: GVPCB, LVPNG
Leave-Ins: Was loving KBB Milk & Nectar, but overused them. Usually just leave-in some of what I CO with.
Styling: Biolage Gelee
Wow pitgirl i just realised my last post sounded *****y by sounding like i was saying "duh - aussie shampoo is bad! didnt mean it like that! but they are pretty heavy so i'd back away.

and yeh a clarifier might be good just to give you a fresh palate to start from so to speak. but i know that whenever i was with aussie shampoos my hair will only look good second day - the first day it wont clump or anything.

ok i am going to bed now before my brain falls asleep on me.

cleanse: OS shampoo. PureNuffStuff cleanser.
condition: Aussie 3MM. Jessicurl Aloeba.
style: B2Basics GreenTeaGel. T&G Curl Balm. JCarter Nourish&Shine.


pw: curlywurly
Thanks for all of your replies everyone.

I'll presume I'm overconditioned for now. Because it doesn't feel like straw.
Because I've always had dry-ish hair, every conditioner in my cupboard is very moisturising and rich.
The only lighter one in the house is Johnsons Baby Detangler, which only has about 5 ingredeints.
Ideally my Curls Rock will arrive this morning, so I can sort my hair before I go out this afternoon. I dont know what to use, I need to wash and maybe detangle with something, here are my options:
Poo;
Aussie Moist
CW Moistureseal Shampoo
Kpak daily shampoo
Loreal Elvive for normal hair (hubby's)
Baby Shampoo

Conditioners;
Aussie Moist Conditioner
Aussie 3 mm
CW Superconditioner
Kpak Daily
Baby conditioner.

Which ones should I use and should I leave nothing in and just detangle, or not condition at all?
I presume a trip to the shops is necessary this afternoon. Can anyone suggest what sort of shampoos and conditioners I should buy ie, ones for normal hair or greasy????

Sorry for rambling on just want to get it sorted.
Thanks
3a Redhead
Umberto Giannini & Curls Rock Amp
Fotki pw: curls



I would say NO to the aussie shampoo as it really wont do your hair any favours. I can't comment on any of the others as never used them - just one that's least harsh?

And for conditioners try a small amount of the aussie moist. Don't slather it on so your hair feels coated, do it till when you brush your hair feels wet and shiney but you can't really 'feel' the conditioner on it. You might be scared your hair will come out dry but if you're suffering from major overconditioning it will help.

Again I realy recommend Original Source Tangerine and Bergamot shampoo. First off it has lovely natural oils in it, citrus oils, which boost curls. It has SLSulfate and Coco-betaine in it but it's milder than some baby shampoos I've used! It makes my curls pop out rather than destroy the pattern, and smells lovely! You don't need much of it either. It's about 2.99 from Boots or 1 from Savers if you can find it!

Good luck and I hope your hair goes back to being lovely!

cleanse: OS shampoo. PureNuffStuff cleanser.
condition: Aussie 3MM. Jessicurl Aloeba.
style: B2Basics GreenTeaGel. T&G Curl Balm. JCarter Nourish&Shine.


pw: curlywurly
Thanks Jen, I will give it a go.
Also I'll pop into boots to pick up the Original source poo, should I get the corresponding conditioner?

Thankyou so much I'll keep you posted.
3a Redhead
Umberto Giannini & Curls Rock Amp
Fotki pw: curls



The shampoo is actually for 'volume' and I think the conditioner may be a BIT too dry - I've never tried it. My friend with very fine wavy hair uses it but I dont know how it'd work for you...

Conditioner wise I'm not sure what to recommend. Do you like cones? A really cheap but lovely one is Boots Coconut and Almond Oil Intensive treatment - its rich so I only use a little but is lovely! Its cone and protein free too. Or maybe just keep trying Aussie Moist until things get under control... I also love Aussie Colour Mate - even if your hair isn't coloured. It makes my curls curlier and smells of peaches! Although it has protein which can aggravate my hair but might work for you.

cleanse: OS shampoo. PureNuffStuff cleanser.
condition: Aussie 3MM. Jessicurl Aloeba.
style: B2Basics GreenTeaGel. T&G Curl Balm. JCarter Nourish&Shine.


pw: curlywurly
Hi Pitgirl,

Just wanted to mention, Original Source is cheaper in Tesco if you have one near you.

Here are my curly pics, password is fuzz

http://public.fotki.com/zeldagoblin/

But then again, too few to mention...
Thanks zelda, tesco's it is.

I love cones, I'll see what I can find.

Dont want to be a PJ
3a Redhead
Umberto Giannini & Curls Rock Amp
Fotki pw: curls



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