I am so impressed with all the help from everyone! kjwavy--I love the idea of combining a little of the lesser hold gel with the good stuff. I am going to have to try your hg BRHG. It's funny you mentioned the chi infra gel, I just saw that this weekend and thought about trying it. I'll have to give it a go. As I'm sure you all know, when everyday is a ponytail day, it's time to experiment again!!!