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Old 08-12-2007, 09:49 AM   #1
 
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Default Omigosh!

Guess what? There was one hairdresser I had when I lived in humid Medford Oregon for two years(this was like 5 or 6 years ago) that swore by this shampoo/conditioner duo. I used it, liked it and for some reason my hair felt dry. I mean it's meant for dry/damaged hair. Bought some last year, and still have some of the conditioner. So just this morning I did a check. This is Back to Basics Raspberry Almond Reparative Conditioner. Here's what I found:

1) Cyclomethicone
2) Cetrimonium Chloride
3) Dimethicone
4) Amodimethicone
5) Trideceth-12

Needless to say I was shocked. Here I thought this product was higher end (especially since it's like $25 a liter) 5 different cones! And here the Suave that I have under my sink has only 1.

I guess I really need to read labels now that I have made a list to take to the store with me. But in a couple weeks I am seriously thinking of Jessicurl.

On a lighter note though I did get my hair layered at Supercuts the other day. Yeah Supercuts, I have never been there, was scared they'd chop it off like other places etc. But they did a good job. Plus being working part time, being at home with the kids, and being a part time student the price was right! When I get my hair de-coned I will place some pics, right now, no way!
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Old 08-12-2007, 09:57 AM   #2
 
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I've noticed alot of dry/damaged hair products are quite harsh and loaded with cones, harsher then their normal/healthy hair counterparts. I guess that's how they get people to keep using. They all have these sales pitches that "over time" blah blah blah, so you keep using and using, and getting more damage from ingredients. That's how I got sucked into years of pantene usage, then one day, I realized I'd been using it for years and was still waiting for their promised improvement.
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Old 08-12-2007, 10:17 AM   #3
 
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I didn't know Cetrimonium Chloride was bad! It's in my alltime fave CO wash condish...what does it do?
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Old 08-12-2007, 01:49 PM   #4
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeldagoblin
I didn't know Cetrimonium Chloride was bad! It's in my alltime fave CO wash condish...what does it do?
I don't think it is bad. It's a conditioning agent/detangler IIRC.
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Old 08-12-2007, 03:19 PM   #5
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redcelticcurls
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeldagoblin
I didn't know Cetrimonium Chloride was bad! It's in my alltime fave CO wash condish...what does it do?
I don't think it is bad. It's a conditioning agent/detangler IIRC.
Pheeeww! That's a relief, thanks RCC
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Old 08-12-2007, 05:12 PM   #6
 
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Cones aren't necessarily bad. I think people translate them to being bad b/c of the whole CG thing, but really, they're not. Other than the cyclopentasiloxane, that causes a problem with some curlies.

But seriously, what is the issue with cones? Nothing really. The issue is that when you choose not to shampoo, then they will build up on your hair. It has nothing to do w/ the ingredients themselves, but rather, the fact that you've chosen to follow a routine that doesn't allow silicones in it.

If you follow a different method, or even have a different type hair, you may do well with these ingredients.
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Old 08-12-2007, 05:18 PM   #7
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babywavy
But seriously, what is the issue with cones? Nothing really. The issue is that when you choose not to shampoo, then they will build up on your hair. It has nothing to do w/ the ingredients themselves, but rather, the fact that you've chosen to follow a routine that doesn't allow silicones in it.
They keep moisture out of the hair. The combination of harsh sulfates and non water soluble cones will give you overall more dry hair than no sulfates and no cones at all because nothing will be there to dry it out in the first place.
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Old 08-12-2007, 05:19 PM   #8
 
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What are the cones that are water soluble? I know that there are some that can rinse off with a CO Wash.
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Old 08-12-2007, 05:22 PM   #9
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legette68
What are the cones that are water soluble? I know that there are some that can rinse off with a CO Wash.
peg/ppg # silicones
dimethicone copolyol
hydrolyzed silicones
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Old 08-12-2007, 05:30 PM   #10
 
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How about dimethicone, dimethiconol, cyclomethicone?
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Old 08-12-2007, 05:43 PM   #11
 
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Default Well.....

I looked on sweetpeacurli's website and it stated that all that I mentioned that were in my conditioner were not water soluble. And I found Cetrimonium Chloride in many of the products I was looking at in the store today. According to the list there are only a few that are water soluble(and don't dry out the hair). These are the ones that were listed as water soluble:

Dimethicone Copolyol
Hydrolized wheat protein /Hydroxypropyl Polysiloxane
Lauryl methicone copolyol


However there was a couple that were sparingly soluble:

Behenoy Dimethicone
Stearoxy Dimethicone

Check out sweetpeacurli's website she's a real gem!

P.S. I decided to junk the oil serum stuff I had that was loaded with cones and well I thought I would see how it did in hot water. I poured some into hot running water in my bathroom sink and (mind you this was scalding water) well it stayed on top of the water like an oil sludge. Got me thinking "why do we put THAT in our hair!?"
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Old 08-12-2007, 06:09 PM   #12
 
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Default Re: Well.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by marinacurlz
I looked on sweetpeacurli's website and it stated that all that I mentioned that were in my conditioner were not water soluble. And I found Cetrimonium Chloride in many of the products I was looking at in the store today. According to the list there are only a few that are water soluble(and don't dry out the hair). These are the ones that were listed as water soluble:

Dimethicone Copolyol
Hydrolized wheat protein /Hydroxypropyl Polysiloxane
Lauryl methicone copolyol


However there was a couple that were sparingly soluble:

Behenoy Dimethicone
Stearoxy Dimethicone

Check out sweetpeacurli's website she's a real gem!

P.S. I decided to junk the oil serum stuff I had that was loaded with cones and well I thought I would see how it did in hot water. I poured some into hot running water in my bathroom sink and (mind you this was scalding water) well it stayed on top of the water like an oil sludge. Got me thinking "why do we put THAT in our hair!?"
I was all over (or so I thought) sweetpeacali's site, and i couldn't find the part you mentioned about cetrimonium chloride. If you could link that specific part, I greatly appreciate it so we can better address the ingredient issue. I've only been here about a year, but this is the first i've heard of it being a cone.

You may be confusing cetrimonium chloride with Cetearyl methicone and
Cetyl Dimethicone. Those two cones are not water soluble.

Cetrimonium chloride isn't a cone at all. Technically it's a quaternary ammonium salt. You will probably commonly find it because it is useful for detangling and helps to make a formula rich.

If your products list cones that are PEG modified, then they will be water soluble as well. Dimethicone alone isn't water soluble, but PEG-8 dimethicone, for example, is water soluble. It's such craziness.

IIRC trideceth-12 is an emulsifier and stabilizer - which helps to bind water loving and oil loving ingredients in a conditioner.

Some cones are not water soluble, but can be removed by gentler cleansing agents such as cocobetaine, which tends to less harsh than sulfates.

http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlco...es.php?id=5341
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Old 08-12-2007, 06:26 PM   #13
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babywavy
Cones aren't necessarily bad. I think people translate them to being bad b/c of the whole CG thing, but really, they're not. Other than the cyclopentasiloxane, that causes a problem with some curlies.

But seriously, what is the issue with cones? Nothing really. The issue is that when you choose not to shampoo, then they will build up on your hair. It has nothing to do w/ the ingredients themselves, but rather, the fact that you've chosen to follow a routine that doesn't allow silicones in it.

If you follow a different method, or even have a different type hair, you may do well with these ingredients.
True enough. While my hair isn't fond of them, plenty here seem to be able to use them (or at least some of the easier ones like amodimethicone) with minimal problems.
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Old 08-12-2007, 06:48 PM   #14
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JuicyTube
Quote:
Originally Posted by babywavy
But seriously, what is the issue with cones? Nothing really. The issue is that when you choose not to shampoo, then they will build up on your hair. It has nothing to do w/ the ingredients themselves, but rather, the fact that you've chosen to follow a routine that doesn't allow silicones in it.
They keep moisture out of the hair. The combination of harsh sulfates and non water soluble cones will give you overall more dry hair than no sulfates and no cones at all because nothing will be there to dry it out in the first place.
I believe it's the build up of these that keeps moisture out of the hair. Somebody who combines moisturizing ingredients along w/ some cones, and shampoos only occasionally, may be moisturized enough for their hair type. The cones are obviously not keeping moisture out completely, or else everyone would have dried out hair.
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Old 08-13-2007, 05:59 AM   #15
 
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Thanks for the info on cones. I think I have a better understanding of them now.
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Old 08-13-2007, 09:35 AM   #16
 
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Default Maybe

Maybe that Cetrimonium Chloride isn't bad alone then. The site did say that when it was mixed with Amodimethicone (and) Trideceth-12 it creates a mixture that is water soluble in the bottle. Guess it's not so good on the hair once ya put it on. Who knows. I do remember a stylist telling me that the main ingredients in drugstore shampoos are salt and water, which strip the hair and so on. So if Cetrimonium Chloride is okay by itself, then knock yourself out. TTFN
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